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Re: [PPLetterpress] Digital Ligatures

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  • Graham and Kathy
    Ignorance, cup-fulls of ignorance, and maybe a dash of laziness and a pinch of faux hip . Graham Moss Incline Press 36 Bow Street Oldham OL1 1SJ England
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 2, 2006
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      Ignorance, cup-fulls of ignorance, and maybe a dash of laziness and a pinch
      of 'faux hip'.


      Graham Moss
      Incline Press
      36 Bow Street
      Oldham OL1 1SJ England
      http://www.inclinepress.com




      On 1/1/06 17:53, "Austin" <austin@...> wrote:

      > I have a question for all you digital types. Why are these mainstream
      > publishers failing to use "f" ligatures in book typesetting? Being used
      > to setting type in metal, the use of fl, fi etc. as ligatures seems
      > commonplace to me. I have noticed this more and more in modern
      > publications. The f and l, or f and i overlap and are obviously separate
      > letters. To me a well designed page will appear an even gray to the
      > reader. Spots of black or white are distracting and show poor design on
      > the part of the typesetter or book designer unless that is the
      > objective. These spots can be used quite effectively to draw attention
      > to a particular point on the page. I am very aware of that. The black
      > spots where the f and l overlap is excessively black. BAD from my
      > perspective. It is difficult for me to see it other than laziness on the
      > part of the typesetters. Even the most basic of word processors will
      > accommodate the search and replace function. Is this just another sign
      > of the times?
      >
      > Just wondering.
    • Austin
      ... I gather - everyone on this list agrees with me in being frustrated at the failure to use the f ligature. The question then seems to me - How do we
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 2, 2006
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        Graham and Kathy wrote:

        > Ignorance, cup-fulls of ignorance, and maybe a dash of laziness and a
        > pinch
        > of 'faux hip'.
        >
        >
        > Graham Moss
        > Incline Press
        > 36 Bow Street
        > Oldham OL1 1SJ England
        > http://www.inclinepress.com
        >
        >
        I gather - everyone on this list agrees with me in being frustrated at
        the failure to use the f ligature. The question then seems to me - How
        do we communicate this point to the publishers? I personally intend to
        contact Random House to voice my displeasure with their lack of
        diligence in monitoring the typesetting of their books. I feel that the
        only way to preserve these standards is to scream loud and often. Apathy
        is the cause for change in society more often than activism

        --


        Austin Jones
        prints by AJ
        Point Pleasant, WV USA
        austin@...
        http://printsbyaj.com



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Carole Aldrich
        It is very simple to turn on the use of ligatures in page layout software like Quark or InDesign. It does not make extra work, only the awareness that this
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 2, 2006
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          It is very simple to "turn on" the use of ligatures in page layout
          software like Quark or InDesign. It does not make extra work, only
          the awareness that this should be done, just as turning on the
          function to convert "typewriter quotes" to "curly quotes".



          Carole Aldrich
          carolealdrich@...
          909-625-7722
          909-625-9822 fax
          909-374-2981 cell
        • Graham and Kathy
          All the logical reasons for complaint were concisely expressed in Austins email. Those of us who think it s important ought to be complaining every time we see
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 2, 2006
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            All the logical reasons for complaint were concisely expressed in Austins
            email. Those of us who think it's important ought to be complaining every
            time we see a publisher with lax standards in this as well as the other
            respects that concern not just us but a wider constituency. For instance, in
            the UK there is an awareness reported in the literary sections of the daily
            press of a loss of editorial work and of proof-reading. I would assume that
            it's all to do with making books cheaper by cutting overheads, and thus ties
            in with using under-educated typists when it comes to setting the books
            instead of typists who know what correct typesetting should entail.

            Despite such an economic imperative running the show, I wouldn't consider
            complaining about falling standards to be a waste of time. There are
            publishers who maintain standards, and they manage in the same market. They
            should get letters too.


            Graham Moss
            Incline Press
            36 Bow Street
            Oldham OL1 1SJ England
            http://www.inclinepress.com
          • Scott Rubel
            The only way to get this across to publishers is the old-fashioned way: boycott and demonstrate. Pace out front of your favorite bookstore carrying a sign with
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 2, 2006
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              The only way to get this across to publishers is the old-fashioned
              way: boycott and demonstrate. Pace out front of your favorite
              bookstore carrying a sign with an "f" and "l" with a red circle and
              cross through them. Hand out broadsides. Check shoppers' bags for
              ligatureless reading matter and implore them to return it and get
              their money back.

              I am doing my part. I am circling every missed opportunity for a
              ligature in every book I received for Christmas and I'm sending them
              back to the publishers as "unreadable" and telling them to get their
              (and here's my favorite ligature) fhit together.

              ♜Scott Rubel♖

              On Jan 2, 2006, at 8:11 AM, Austin wrote:

              > Graham and Kathy wrote:
              >
              >> Ignorance, cup-fulls of ignorance, and maybe a dash of laziness
              >> and a pinch of 'faux hip'.
              >>
              >> Graham Moss
              >> Incline Press
              >> 36 Bow Street
              >> Oldham OL1 1SJ England
              >> http://www.inclinepress.com
              >>
              > I gather - everyone on this list agrees with me in being frustrated at
              > the failure to use the f ligature. The question then seems to me - How
              > do we communicate this point to the publishers? I personally intend to
              > contact Random House to voice my displeasure with their lack of
              > diligence in monitoring the typesetting of their books. I feel that
              > the
              > only way to preserve these standards is to scream loud and often.
              > Apathy
              > is the cause for change in society more often than activism
              >
              > --
              > Austin Jones
              > prints by AJ
              > Point Pleasant, WV USA
              > austin@...
              > http://printsbyaj.com
            • Scott Rubel
              I was not aware of this in InDesign. Bummer…all the time I spent inserting ligatures. Ignorance. Thank you for the lesson. --Scott
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 2, 2006
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                I was not aware of this in InDesign.

                Bummer…all the time I spent inserting ligatures.

                Ignorance. Thank you for the lesson.

                --Scott

                On Jan 2, 2006, at 8:47 AM, Carole Aldrich wrote:

                > It is very simple to "turn on" the use of ligatures in page layout
                > software like Quark or InDesign. It does not make extra work, only
                > the awareness that this should be done, just as turning on the
                > function to convert "typewriter quotes" to "curly quotes".
                >
                > Carole Aldrich
                > carolealdrich@...
                > 909-625-7722
                > 909-625-9822 fax
                > 909-374-2981 cell
              • Farida Bee
                Scott, This would make a great T-shirt design. Farida ... sign with an f and l with a red circle and cross through them.
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 2, 2006
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                  Scott,

                  This would make a great T-shirt design.

                  Farida



                  --- Scott Rubel <scott@...> wrote:

                  > Pace out front of your favorite bookstore carrying a
                  sign with an "f" and "l" with a red circle and cross
                  through them.



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                • Michael T. Metz
                  That s hilarious, and it would probably make the news. Civil disobedience at its best. ... From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 2, 2006
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                    That's hilarious, and it would probably make the
                    news. Civil disobedience at its best.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Scott Rubel
                    Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 3:38 PM
                    To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Digital Ligatures


                    The only way to get this across to publishers is the old-fashioned
                    way: boycott and demonstrate. Pace out front of your favorite
                    bookstore carrying a sign with an "f" and "l" with a red circle and
                    cross through them. Hand out broadsides. Check shoppers' bags for
                    ligatureless reading matter and implore them to return it and get
                    their money back.

                    I am doing my part. I am circling every missed opportunity for a
                    ligature in every book I received for Christmas and I'm sending them
                    back to the publishers as "unreadable" and telling them to get their
                    (and here's my favorite ligature) fhit together.

                    ♜Scott Rubel♖

                    On Jan 2, 2006, at 8:11 AM, Austin wrote:

                    > Graham and Kathy wrote:
                    >
                    >> Ignorance, cup-fulls of ignorance, and maybe a dash of laziness
                    >> and a pinch of 'faux hip'.
                    >>
                    >> Graham Moss
                    >> Incline Press
                    >> 36 Bow Street
                    >> Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                    >> http://www.inclinepress.com
                    >>
                    > I gather - everyone on this list agrees with me in being frustrated at
                    > the failure to use the f ligature. The question then seems to me - How
                    > do we communicate this point to the publishers? I personally intend to
                    > contact Random House to voice my displeasure with their lack of
                    > diligence in monitoring the typesetting of their books. I feel that
                    > the
                    > only way to preserve these standards is to scream loud and often.
                    > Apathy
                    > is the cause for change in society more often than activism
                    >
                    > --
                    > Austin Jones
                    > prints by AJ
                    > Point Pleasant, WV USA
                    > austin@...
                    > http://printsbyaj.com



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