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I am selling my WONDERFUL PRESS!

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  • Protean Press
    Rich and I will be moving in mid-summer to a smaller home closer to downtown S.F. We have been planning that within the next few years I would move on to
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 29, 2005
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      Rich and I will be moving in mid-summer to a smaller home closer to downtown
      S.F. We have been planning that 'within the next few years' I would move on
      to doing more with my etching press and sell my Vandercook 219 AB,
      guillotine, and type and type cases.
      It just is happening faster than we had originally thought.

      So, my Vandercook 219 AB (in excellent condition, rollers were recently
      balanced and a new crescent worm was installed) will be sold to a good home.
      I have loved using it for the past 23 years! It was built in 1931 back east
      and shipped to LA area before coming up here to San Francisco. It will come
      with extra rollers and a roller cabinet, wooden furniture and a rack which
      holds the furniture.
      Also for sale are a guillotine (26" blade length) and extra blade, two
      typecase cabinets--a total of 23 drawers (one cabinet has an angled top for
      holding galleys while setting type; the second has two shelves at the back
      of a working surface), a galley rack/cabinet on wheels (with a total of 3
      columns of 25 shelves each), type of various sorts and sizes (some Monotype,
      some Foundry type), a 25-drawer paper cabinet. There are probably other
      items. Certainly some paper will be available as well.

      Two provisos: I would like to have it out of my possession by mid-February.
      And,second, whoever purchases my wonderful press will allow me occasional
      use of it. I know I will continue to have projects that include a bit of
      letterpress, though I believe my fully letterpress-printed pieces will be
      completed by the time of sale.

      If you are interested, or if you know anyone who might be interested, please
      contact me. I'm trying very hard not to set up specifications even in my
      mind about the 'kind of person' to whom my precious press should go. I have
      loved it. It has done very good service. I will miss it. I will hope that
      the purchaser lives locally so I can visit it on the occasional basis.
      Sincerely, Terry Horrigan
    • Robert E Blesse
      Terry -- Sorry to reply to the whole list about this, but we d be interested in your Vandercook and the other equipment. -- Bob Blesse ... Robert E. Blesse
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 29, 2005
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        Terry --
        Sorry to reply to the whole list about this, but we'd be interested in your Vandercook and the other equipment.
        -- Bob Blesse


        -----------------------------------------
        Robert E. Blesse
        Head, Special Collections Department
        Director, The Black Rock Press
        University Library MS 322
        University of Nevada, Reno
        Reno, NV 89557-0044

        775-784-6500 ext. 317 - Office
        775-233-2546 - Cell
        775-784-4529 - Fax
        blesse@...


        ________________________________

        From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Protean Press
        Sent: Thu 12/29/2005 12:19 PM
        To: Karen Zukor; Williams, Adrianna; Ann (Book Club) Whipple; Mel (etchingpress) Whelan; Nan (papermaker) Welsh; Sylvia S. Walters; Barbara and Fred Voltmer; TwoHandsPr@...; Vamp and Bill and Vicky Stewart Tramp; Karen bookbinder Thomas; Joyce Theuerkauf; Christine (Wilsted and) Taylor; Wesley Tanner; Pete Stoelzl; Sue Steele; Dick Stanley; Robin Sparks; rebecca smith; Linda (met thru Kath. Ven.) Smith; Daniel Smith; Brian and Melanie Simmons; Susan Sibbet; Leonard Shlain; Joan Schulze; Carla Saunders; Jeannie Book Club of CA Sacks; Jim (bookbookcase) Rosenau; Adela Roatcap; Archetype Press; One Heart Press; PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com; dot at work pett; Francesca & Jeff Pera; asa peavy; Catherine & Jerry Mutz; Suzanne &Don Glaister Moore; miranker; Cathy Miranker; Rhian Miller; carolyn miller; merrill@...; Leigh McLellan; Bill McClung; Misako Matsui; Craig Matthews; Daniel Smith Artists' Materials; Marty Manley; Tatiana Lyskova; Nate Loux; Friends of the SF Library; Anne Lawrence; mary shihabuddin laird; Gary Kurutz; Alyson Kuhn; Fritz Vandercook Klinke; Noel Kirshenbaum; Stephanie Kipperman; Cathy and John Kalin; Alastair Johnston; Chad Johnson; Fran Johns; bud johns; Cynthia (Califia) Imperatore; Kathryn Hyde; Brooke Holve; Eric Holub; Chuck Hobson; Alan Hillesheim; Victoria (Milkfed) Heifner; Rebecca Haseltine; Andrea V. Grimes; Janet (book friend) Glessner; Karen &David Glenn; Jennifer Futernick; Fine, Emily; Jean Espe; Lucia Eames; Mary (Possible printer) Doane; carol cunningham; liz craig; Chris (USF) Corwin; Bob giclee printing Colorfolio; Dana E. Chisnell; Chris (prev.of M&H) Chen; Katherine Case; Joe Bugental; Phineas Bug; Broadus, Carolyn; Kay printmaker Bradner; SF Center for the Book; Stewart Bloom; Kathy Barr; Renee Baldocchi; Mary K Austin; Barbara (Janet's friend) Arthur; Gloria Kondrup ArchetypePress
        Subject: [PPLetterpress] I am selling my WONDERFUL PRESS!



        Rich and I will be moving in mid-summer to a smaller home closer to downtown
        S.F. We have been planning that 'within the next few years' I would move on
        to doing more with my etching press and sell my Vandercook 219 AB,
        guillotine, and type and type cases.
        It just is happening faster than we had originally thought.

        So, my Vandercook 219 AB (in excellent condition, rollers were recently
        balanced and a new crescent worm was installed) will be sold to a good home.
        I have loved using it for the past 23 years! It was built in 1931 back east
        and shipped to LA area before coming up here to San Francisco. It will come
        with extra rollers and a roller cabinet, wooden furniture and a rack which
        holds the furniture.
        Also for sale are a guillotine (26" blade length) and extra blade, two
        typecase cabinets--a total of 23 drawers (one cabinet has an angled top for
        holding galleys while setting type; the second has two shelves at the back
        of a working surface), a galley rack/cabinet on wheels (with a total of 3
        columns of 25 shelves each), type of various sorts and sizes (some Monotype,
        some Foundry type), a 25-drawer paper cabinet. There are probably other
        items. Certainly some paper will be available as well.

        Two provisos: I would like to have it out of my possession by mid-February.
        And,second, whoever purchases my wonderful press will allow me occasional
        use of it. I know I will continue to have projects that include a bit of
        letterpress, though I believe my fully letterpress-printed pieces will be
        completed by the time of sale.

        If you are interested, or if you know anyone who might be interested, please
        contact me. I'm trying very hard not to set up specifications even in my
        mind about the 'kind of person' to whom my precious press should go. I have
        loved it. It has done very good service. I will miss it. I will hope that
        the purchaser lives locally so I can visit it on the occasional basis.
        Sincerely, Terry Horrigan






        Yahoo! Groups Links











        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Michael Andrews
        Hi Terry I am sorry to hear about your Vandercook. When I sold my 232 it was spiritual sepuku. I would very much be interested in your guillotine (26 blade
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 29, 2005
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          Hi Terry

          I am sorry to hear about your Vandercook. When I sold
          my 232 it was spiritual sepuku.

          I would very much be interested in your "guillotine
          (26" blade length) and extra blade"

          and would be more than happy to make the drive from LA
          to fetch it back. I am just now sewing a book with a
          24" spine and I have no way to trim it until I saw
          your post.

          Please let me know.

          Michael Andrews
          Bombshelter Press
          apeiron@...
          310.374.7672





          --- Protean Press <proteanpress@...> wrote:

          > Rich and I will be moving in mid-summer to a smaller
          > home closer to downtown
          > S.F. We have been planning that 'within the next
          > few years' I would move on
          > to doing more with my etching press and sell my
          > Vandercook 219 AB,
          > guillotine, and type and type cases.
          > It just is happening faster than we had originally
          > thought.
          >
          > So, my Vandercook 219 AB (in excellent condition,
          > rollers were recently
          > balanced and a new crescent worm was installed) will
          > be sold to a good home.
          > I have loved using it for the past 23 years! It was
          > built in 1931 back east
          > and shipped to LA area before coming up here to San
          > Francisco. It will come
          > with extra rollers and a roller cabinet, wooden
          > furniture and a rack which
          > holds the furniture.
          > Also for sale are a guillotine (26" blade length)
          > and extra blade, two
          > typecase cabinets--a total of 23 drawers (one
          > cabinet has an angled top for
          > holding galleys while setting type; the second has
          > two shelves at the back
          > of a working surface), a galley rack/cabinet on
          > wheels (with a total of 3
          > columns of 25 shelves each), type of various sorts
          > and sizes (some Monotype,
          > some Foundry type), a 25-drawer paper cabinet. There
          > are probably other
          > items. Certainly some paper will be available as
          > well.
          >
          > Two provisos: I would like to have it out of my
          > possession by mid-February.
          > And,second, whoever purchases my wonderful press
          > will allow me occasional
          > use of it. I know I will continue to have projects
          > that include a bit of
          > letterpress, though I believe my fully
          > letterpress-printed pieces will be
          > completed by the time of sale.
          >
          > If you are interested, or if you know anyone who
          > might be interested, please
          > contact me. I'm trying very hard not to set up
          > specifications even in my
          > mind about the 'kind of person' to whom my precious
          > press should go. I have
          > loved it. It has done very good service. I will miss
          > it. I will hope that
          > the purchaser lives locally so I can visit it on the
          > occasional basis.
          > Sincerely, Terry Horrigan
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          >
          >




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        • parallel_imp
          ... Having seen the press, I should point out that the press is a Vandercook 219 old style and is not an AB model. Eric Holub, SF
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 29, 2005
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            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Protean Press"
            <proteanpress@s...> wrote:
            >
            > Rich and I will be moving in mid-summer to a smaller home closer to
            > downtown S.F. We have been planning that 'within the next few years'
            > I would move on to doing more with my etching press and sell my
            > Vandercook 219 AB, guillotine, and type and type cases.

            Having seen the press, I should point out that the press is a
            Vandercook 219 old style and is not an AB model.
            Eric Holub, SF
          • Austin
            For Christmas I received the book Stealing God s Thunder by Philip Dray. This is a book dealing with Ben Franklin and his scientific experiments. The book is a
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 1, 2006
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              For Christmas I received the book Stealing God's Thunder by Philip Dray.
              This is a book dealing with Ben Franklin and his scientific experiments.
              The book is a Random House publication.

              I have a question for all you digital types. Why are these mainstream
              publishers failing to use "f" ligatures in book typesetting? Being used
              to setting type in metal, the use of fl, fi etc. as ligatures seems
              commonplace to me. I have noticed this more and more in modern
              publications. The f and l, or f and i overlap and are obviously separate
              letters. To me a well designed page will appear an even gray to the
              reader. Spots of black or white are distracting and show poor design on
              the part of the typesetter or book designer unless that is the
              objective. These spots can be used quite effectively to draw attention
              to a particular point on the page. I am very aware of that. The black
              spots where the f and l overlap is excessively black. BAD from my
              perspective. It is difficult for me to see it other than laziness on the
              part of the typesetters. Even the most basic of word processors will
              accommodate the search and replace function. Is this just another sign
              of the times?

              Just wondering.

              --


              Austin Jones
              prints by AJ
              Point Pleasant, WV USA
              austin@...
              http://printsbyaj.com
            • David Michael McNamara
              Older versions of Quark, I believe, didn t have automatic ligatures, and I think the same goes for PageMaker. (I know the newest versions of Quark do, as is
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 1, 2006
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                Older versions of Quark, I believe, didn't have automatic ligatures, and I think the same goes for PageMaker. (I know the newest versions of Quark do, as is the case of InDesign.) And, of course, certain typefaces aren't cooperative with this option, either.

                Of course, someone could go through and manually place the ligatures in there, but the larger publishing houses aren't going to be bother with that for a mass market book. After all, in most cases the title of the person doing the pouring is just that--a Pourer, or Operator, or something similar--and not Graphic Designer, Typographer, et cetera.

                At the end, this is mostly a hunch, and I'm sure there are some other reasons that contribute.
                __

                Davod
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Austin
                To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 12:53 PM
                Subject: [PPLetterpress] Digital Ligatures


                For Christmas I received the book Stealing God's Thunder by Philip Dray.
                This is a book dealing with Ben Franklin and his scientific experiments.
                The book is a Random House publication.

                I have a question for all you digital types. Why are these mainstream
                publishers failing to use "f" ligatures in book typesetting? Being used
                to setting type in metal, the use of fl, fi etc. as ligatures seems
                commonplace to me. I have noticed this more and more in modern
                publications. The f and l, or f and i overlap and are obviously separate
                letters. To me a well designed page will appear an even gray to the
                reader. Spots of black or white are distracting and show poor design on
                the part of the typesetter or book designer unless that is the
                objective. These spots can be used quite effectively to draw attention
                to a particular point on the page. I am very aware of that. The black
                spots where the f and l overlap is excessively black. BAD from my
                perspective. It is difficult for me to see it other than laziness on the
                part of the typesetters. Even the most basic of word processors will
                accommodate the search and replace function. Is this just another sign
                of the times?

                Just wondering.

                --


                Austin Jones
                prints by AJ
                Point Pleasant, WV USA
                austin@...
                http://printsbyaj.com



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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Gerald Lange
                Austin Could be laziness or lack of knowledge. The typesetter could also have turned ligatures off for tracking purposes. While ligatures were a necessity in
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 1, 2006
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                  Austin

                  Could be laziness or lack of knowledge. The typesetter could also have
                  turned ligatures off for tracking purposes.

                  While ligatures were a necessity in the setting of most metal text type,
                  they aren't necessarily considered a requirement in digital practice. In
                  fact, the typographer Günter Gerhard Lange (no relation as far as I
                  know), who is the Artistic Director at H. Berthold AG, is well known for
                  his opposition to the use of f-ligatures.

                  Gerald Lange
                  http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                  Austin wrote:

                  >For Christmas I received the book Stealing God's Thunder by Philip Dray.
                  >This is a book dealing with Ben Franklin and his scientific experiments.
                  >The book is a Random House publication.
                  >
                  >I have a question for all you digital types. Why are these mainstream
                  >publishers failing to use "f" ligatures in book typesetting? Being used
                  >to setting type in metal, the use of fl, fi etc. as ligatures seems
                  >commonplace to me. I have noticed this more and more in modern
                  >publications. The f and l, or f and i overlap and are obviously separate
                  >letters. To me a well designed page will appear an even gray to the
                  >reader. Spots of black or white are distracting and show poor design on
                  >the part of the typesetter or book designer unless that is the
                  >objective. These spots can be used quite effectively to draw attention
                  >to a particular point on the page. I am very aware of that. The black
                  >spots where the f and l overlap is excessively black. BAD from my
                  >perspective. It is difficult for me to see it other than laziness on the
                  >part of the typesetters. Even the most basic of word processors will
                  >accommodate the search and replace function. Is this just another sign
                  >of the times?
                  >
                  >Just wondering.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Michael T. Metz
                  Hello Gerald: Would you offer a snapshot of his argument? Mike ... From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 1, 2006
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                    Hello Gerald:

                    Would you offer a snapshot of his argument?

                    Mike







                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Gerald Lange
                    Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 2:00 PM
                    To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Digital Ligatures


                    Austin

                    Could be laziness or lack of knowledge. The typesetter could also have
                    turned ligatures off for tracking purposes.

                    While ligatures were a necessity in the setting of most metal text type,
                    they aren't necessarily considered a requirement in digital practice. In
                    fact, the typographer Günter Gerhard Lange (no relation as far as I
                    know), who is the Artistic Director at H. Berthold AG, is well known for
                    his opposition to the use of f-ligatures.

                    Gerald Lange
                    http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                    Austin wrote:

                    >For Christmas I received the book Stealing God's Thunder by Philip Dray.
                    >This is a book dealing with Ben Franklin and his scientific experiments.
                    >The book is a Random House publication.
                    >
                    >I have a question for all you digital types. Why are these mainstream
                    >publishers failing to use "f" ligatures in book typesetting? Being used
                    >to setting type in metal, the use of fl, fi etc. as ligatures seems
                    >commonplace to me. I have noticed this more and more in modern
                    >publications. The f and l, or f and i overlap and are obviously separate
                    >letters. To me a well designed page will appear an even gray to the
                    >reader. Spots of black or white are distracting and show poor design on
                    >the part of the typesetter or book designer unless that is the
                    >objective. These spots can be used quite effectively to draw attention
                    >to a particular point on the page. I am very aware of that. The black
                    >spots where the f and l overlap is excessively black. BAD from my
                    >perspective. It is difficult for me to see it other than laziness on the
                    >part of the typesetters. Even the most basic of word processors will
                    >accommodate the search and replace function. Is this just another sign
                    >of the times?
                    >
                    >Just wondering.
                    >
                    >
                    >





                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Gerald Lange
                    Mike I assume this is in reference to Günter Gerhard Lange? if so. . . Can t recall off hand. I think there was some discussion in this regard on the
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 1, 2006
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                      Mike

                      I assume this is in reference to Günter Gerhard Lange? if so. . .

                      Can't recall off hand. I think there was some discussion in this regard
                      on the Typophile forums a while back. May have had something to do with
                      streamlining composition systems or modernizing character sets.

                      I have a number of faces designed by Lange that include ligature sets
                      and I believe most of the Berthold fonts that I have include ligatures. (?)

                      Gerald Lange
                      http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                      Michael T. Metz wrote:

                      >Hello Gerald:
                      >
                      >Would you offer a snapshot of his argument?
                      >
                      >Mike
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Austin
                      >
                      >Could be laziness or lack of knowledge. The typesetter could also have
                      >turned ligatures off for tracking purposes.
                      >
                      >While ligatures were a necessity in the setting of most metal text type,
                      >they aren't necessarily considered a requirement in digital practice. In
                      >fact, the typographer Günter Gerhard Lange (no relation as far as I
                      >know), who is the Artistic Director at H. Berthold AG, is well known for
                      >his opposition to the use of f-ligatures.
                      >
                      >Gerald Lange
                      >http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                      >
                      >Austin wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >>For Christmas I received the book Stealing God's Thunder by Philip Dray.
                      >>This is a book dealing with Ben Franklin and his scientific experiments.
                      >>The book is a Random House publication.
                      >>
                      >>I have a question for all you digital types. Why are these mainstream
                      >>publishers failing to use "f" ligatures in book typesetting? Being used
                      >>to setting type in metal, the use of fl, fi etc. as ligatures seems
                      >>commonplace to me. I have noticed this more and more in modern
                      >>publications. The f and l, or f and i overlap and are obviously separate
                      >>letters. To me a well designed page will appear an even gray to the
                      >>reader. Spots of black or white are distracting and show poor design on
                      >>the part of the typesetter or book designer unless that is the
                      >>objective. These spots can be used quite effectively to draw attention
                      >>to a particular point on the page. I am very aware of that. The black
                      >>spots where the f and l overlap is excessively black. BAD from my
                      >>perspective. It is difficult for me to see it other than laziness on the
                      >>part of the typesetters. Even the most basic of word processors will
                      >>accommodate the search and replace function. Is this just another sign
                      >>of the times?
                      >>
                      >>Just wondering.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                    • Michael T. Metz
                      Yes, good job reading my mind. It doesn t sound like much of an argument for dropping ligatures. Thanks, Mike ... From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 1, 2006
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                        Yes, good job reading my mind.

                        It doesn't sound like much of an argument for
                        dropping ligatures.

                        Thanks,
                        Mike

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Gerald Lange
                        Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 5:12 PM
                        To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Digital Ligatures


                        Mike

                        I assume this is in reference to Günter Gerhard Lange? if so. . .

                        Can't recall off hand. I think there was some discussion in this regard
                        on the Typophile forums a while back. May have had something to do with
                        streamlining composition systems or modernizing character sets.

                        I have a number of faces designed by Lange that include ligature sets
                        and I believe most of the Berthold fonts that I have include ligatures. (?)

                        Gerald Lange
                        http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                        Michael T. Metz wrote:

                        >Hello Gerald:
                        >
                        >Would you offer a snapshot of his argument?
                        >
                        >Mike
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Austin
                        >
                        >Could be laziness or lack of knowledge. The typesetter could also have
                        >turned ligatures off for tracking purposes.
                        >
                        >While ligatures were a necessity in the setting of most metal text type,
                        >they aren't necessarily considered a requirement in digital practice. In
                        >fact, the typographer Günter Gerhard Lange (no relation as far as I
                        >know), who is the Artistic Director at H. Berthold AG, is well known for
                        >his opposition to the use of f-ligatures.
                        >
                        >Gerald Lange
                        >http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                        >
                        >Austin wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >>For Christmas I received the book Stealing God's Thunder by Philip Dray.
                        >>This is a book dealing with Ben Franklin and his scientific experiments.
                        >>The book is a Random House publication.
                        >>
                        >>I have a question for all you digital types. Why are these mainstream
                        >>publishers failing to use "f" ligatures in book typesetting? Being used
                        >>to setting type in metal, the use of fl, fi etc. as ligatures seems
                        >>commonplace to me. I have noticed this more and more in modern
                        >>publications. The f and l, or f and i overlap and are obviously separate
                        >>letters. To me a well designed page will appear an even gray to the
                        >>reader. Spots of black or white are distracting and show poor design on
                        >>the part of the typesetter or book designer unless that is the
                        >>objective. These spots can be used quite effectively to draw attention
                        >>to a particular point on the page. I am very aware of that. The black
                        >>spots where the f and l overlap is excessively black. BAD from my
                        >>perspective. It is difficult for me to see it other than laziness on the
                        >>part of the typesetters. Even the most basic of word processors will
                        >>accommodate the search and replace function. Is this just another sign
                        >>of the times?
                        >>
                        >>Just wondering.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>





                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • Graham and Kathy
                        Ignorance, cup-fulls of ignorance, and maybe a dash of laziness and a pinch of faux hip . Graham Moss Incline Press 36 Bow Street Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jan 2, 2006
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                          Ignorance, cup-fulls of ignorance, and maybe a dash of laziness and a pinch
                          of 'faux hip'.


                          Graham Moss
                          Incline Press
                          36 Bow Street
                          Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                          http://www.inclinepress.com




                          On 1/1/06 17:53, "Austin" <austin@...> wrote:

                          > I have a question for all you digital types. Why are these mainstream
                          > publishers failing to use "f" ligatures in book typesetting? Being used
                          > to setting type in metal, the use of fl, fi etc. as ligatures seems
                          > commonplace to me. I have noticed this more and more in modern
                          > publications. The f and l, or f and i overlap and are obviously separate
                          > letters. To me a well designed page will appear an even gray to the
                          > reader. Spots of black or white are distracting and show poor design on
                          > the part of the typesetter or book designer unless that is the
                          > objective. These spots can be used quite effectively to draw attention
                          > to a particular point on the page. I am very aware of that. The black
                          > spots where the f and l overlap is excessively black. BAD from my
                          > perspective. It is difficult for me to see it other than laziness on the
                          > part of the typesetters. Even the most basic of word processors will
                          > accommodate the search and replace function. Is this just another sign
                          > of the times?
                          >
                          > Just wondering.
                        • Austin
                          ... I gather - everyone on this list agrees with me in being frustrated at the failure to use the f ligature. The question then seems to me - How do we
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jan 2, 2006
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                            Graham and Kathy wrote:

                            > Ignorance, cup-fulls of ignorance, and maybe a dash of laziness and a
                            > pinch
                            > of 'faux hip'.
                            >
                            >
                            > Graham Moss
                            > Incline Press
                            > 36 Bow Street
                            > Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                            > http://www.inclinepress.com
                            >
                            >
                            I gather - everyone on this list agrees with me in being frustrated at
                            the failure to use the f ligature. The question then seems to me - How
                            do we communicate this point to the publishers? I personally intend to
                            contact Random House to voice my displeasure with their lack of
                            diligence in monitoring the typesetting of their books. I feel that the
                            only way to preserve these standards is to scream loud and often. Apathy
                            is the cause for change in society more often than activism

                            --


                            Austin Jones
                            prints by AJ
                            Point Pleasant, WV USA
                            austin@...
                            http://printsbyaj.com



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Carole Aldrich
                            It is very simple to turn on the use of ligatures in page layout software like Quark or InDesign. It does not make extra work, only the awareness that this
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jan 2, 2006
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                              It is very simple to "turn on" the use of ligatures in page layout
                              software like Quark or InDesign. It does not make extra work, only
                              the awareness that this should be done, just as turning on the
                              function to convert "typewriter quotes" to "curly quotes".



                              Carole Aldrich
                              carolealdrich@...
                              909-625-7722
                              909-625-9822 fax
                              909-374-2981 cell
                            • Graham and Kathy
                              All the logical reasons for complaint were concisely expressed in Austins email. Those of us who think it s important ought to be complaining every time we see
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jan 2, 2006
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                                All the logical reasons for complaint were concisely expressed in Austins
                                email. Those of us who think it's important ought to be complaining every
                                time we see a publisher with lax standards in this as well as the other
                                respects that concern not just us but a wider constituency. For instance, in
                                the UK there is an awareness reported in the literary sections of the daily
                                press of a loss of editorial work and of proof-reading. I would assume that
                                it's all to do with making books cheaper by cutting overheads, and thus ties
                                in with using under-educated typists when it comes to setting the books
                                instead of typists who know what correct typesetting should entail.

                                Despite such an economic imperative running the show, I wouldn't consider
                                complaining about falling standards to be a waste of time. There are
                                publishers who maintain standards, and they manage in the same market. They
                                should get letters too.


                                Graham Moss
                                Incline Press
                                36 Bow Street
                                Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                                http://www.inclinepress.com
                              • Scott Rubel
                                The only way to get this across to publishers is the old-fashioned way: boycott and demonstrate. Pace out front of your favorite bookstore carrying a sign with
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jan 2, 2006
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                                  The only way to get this across to publishers is the old-fashioned
                                  way: boycott and demonstrate. Pace out front of your favorite
                                  bookstore carrying a sign with an "f" and "l" with a red circle and
                                  cross through them. Hand out broadsides. Check shoppers' bags for
                                  ligatureless reading matter and implore them to return it and get
                                  their money back.

                                  I am doing my part. I am circling every missed opportunity for a
                                  ligature in every book I received for Christmas and I'm sending them
                                  back to the publishers as "unreadable" and telling them to get their
                                  (and here's my favorite ligature) fhit together.

                                  ♜Scott Rubel♖

                                  On Jan 2, 2006, at 8:11 AM, Austin wrote:

                                  > Graham and Kathy wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> Ignorance, cup-fulls of ignorance, and maybe a dash of laziness
                                  >> and a pinch of 'faux hip'.
                                  >>
                                  >> Graham Moss
                                  >> Incline Press
                                  >> 36 Bow Street
                                  >> Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                                  >> http://www.inclinepress.com
                                  >>
                                  > I gather - everyone on this list agrees with me in being frustrated at
                                  > the failure to use the f ligature. The question then seems to me - How
                                  > do we communicate this point to the publishers? I personally intend to
                                  > contact Random House to voice my displeasure with their lack of
                                  > diligence in monitoring the typesetting of their books. I feel that
                                  > the
                                  > only way to preserve these standards is to scream loud and often.
                                  > Apathy
                                  > is the cause for change in society more often than activism
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Austin Jones
                                  > prints by AJ
                                  > Point Pleasant, WV USA
                                  > austin@...
                                  > http://printsbyaj.com
                                • Scott Rubel
                                  I was not aware of this in InDesign. Bummer…all the time I spent inserting ligatures. Ignorance. Thank you for the lesson. --Scott
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jan 2, 2006
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                                    I was not aware of this in InDesign.

                                    Bummer…all the time I spent inserting ligatures.

                                    Ignorance. Thank you for the lesson.

                                    --Scott

                                    On Jan 2, 2006, at 8:47 AM, Carole Aldrich wrote:

                                    > It is very simple to "turn on" the use of ligatures in page layout
                                    > software like Quark or InDesign. It does not make extra work, only
                                    > the awareness that this should be done, just as turning on the
                                    > function to convert "typewriter quotes" to "curly quotes".
                                    >
                                    > Carole Aldrich
                                    > carolealdrich@...
                                    > 909-625-7722
                                    > 909-625-9822 fax
                                    > 909-374-2981 cell
                                  • Farida Bee
                                    Scott, This would make a great T-shirt design. Farida ... sign with an f and l with a red circle and cross through them.
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jan 2, 2006
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                                      Scott,

                                      This would make a great T-shirt design.

                                      Farida



                                      --- Scott Rubel <scott@...> wrote:

                                      > Pace out front of your favorite bookstore carrying a
                                      sign with an "f" and "l" with a red circle and cross
                                      through them.



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                                    • Michael T. Metz
                                      That s hilarious, and it would probably make the news. Civil disobedience at its best. ... From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jan 2, 2006
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                                        That's hilarious, and it would probably make the
                                        news. Civil disobedience at its best.

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                        [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Scott Rubel
                                        Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 3:38 PM
                                        To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Digital Ligatures


                                        The only way to get this across to publishers is the old-fashioned
                                        way: boycott and demonstrate. Pace out front of your favorite
                                        bookstore carrying a sign with an "f" and "l" with a red circle and
                                        cross through them. Hand out broadsides. Check shoppers' bags for
                                        ligatureless reading matter and implore them to return it and get
                                        their money back.

                                        I am doing my part. I am circling every missed opportunity for a
                                        ligature in every book I received for Christmas and I'm sending them
                                        back to the publishers as "unreadable" and telling them to get their
                                        (and here's my favorite ligature) fhit together.

                                        ♜Scott Rubel♖

                                        On Jan 2, 2006, at 8:11 AM, Austin wrote:

                                        > Graham and Kathy wrote:
                                        >
                                        >> Ignorance, cup-fulls of ignorance, and maybe a dash of laziness
                                        >> and a pinch of 'faux hip'.
                                        >>
                                        >> Graham Moss
                                        >> Incline Press
                                        >> 36 Bow Street
                                        >> Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                                        >> http://www.inclinepress.com
                                        >>
                                        > I gather - everyone on this list agrees with me in being frustrated at
                                        > the failure to use the f ligature. The question then seems to me - How
                                        > do we communicate this point to the publishers? I personally intend to
                                        > contact Random House to voice my displeasure with their lack of
                                        > diligence in monitoring the typesetting of their books. I feel that
                                        > the
                                        > only way to preserve these standards is to scream loud and often.
                                        > Apathy
                                        > is the cause for change in society more often than activism
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > Austin Jones
                                        > prints by AJ
                                        > Point Pleasant, WV USA
                                        > austin@...
                                        > http://printsbyaj.com



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