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Re: 3 phase to single, help please.

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  • mableylee
    Hello Michael, The Heidelberg has 3hp, C&P has 2. ... doesn t ... indicate, ... forme, ... it ... do ... haul, ... and 12x18 ... building with ... running? (A
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
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      Hello Michael,

      The Heidelberg has 3hp, C&P has 2.


      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Michael T. Metz" <mtmetz@s...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
      > Folks have told me that the HP rating on
      > a single phase motor won't pull what the
      > same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
      > motor?
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
      > Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:56 AM
      > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.
      >
      >
      > I put a single-phase motor on a 10 x 15 windmill, but I find it
      doesn't
      > have the power that the three-phase motors do. The speed runs
      > considerably slower than the figure on the speed control would
      indicate,
      > and I find that it overheats when I run it too fast with a heavy
      forme,
      > and pops the breaker built in to the on-off switch. So I just slow
      it
      > down. It's only a problem on long runs with lots of printing area.
      >
      > I don't have any experience with phase converters, but if I were to
      do
      > it again I'd get the converter. Or, if you're in it for the long
      haul,
      > get the electrical service upgrade.
      >
      > Joel
      >
      > Dependable Letterpress
      > San Francisco
      >
      >
      > mableylee wrote:
      >
      > >Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen
      and 12x18
      > C&P NS). Both
      > >are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the
      > printing company I
      > >purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another
      building with
      > only single
      > >phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines
      running? (A few
      > have
      > >suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others
      have
      > advised replacing
      > >the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would
      greatly be
      > appreciated!
      > >Much thanks, Mable
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
    • Michael T. Metz
      Hi Joel, Sorry about how that turned out. I think you should talk to the guy that set you up with the 2hp motor. It doesn t sound like he did his job. Does the
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
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        Hi Joel,

        Sorry about how that turned out. I think
        you should talk to the guy that set you
        up with the 2hp motor. It doesn't sound
        like he did his job.

        Does the motor bog down when you engage
        the clutch? What are the other specs on
        the motor? RPM, etc.

        Mike



        -----Original Message-----
        From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
        Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 4:58 PM
        To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


        Michael T. Metz wrote:

        >Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
        >Folks have told me that the HP rating on
        >a single phase motor won't pull what the
        >same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
        >motor?
        >
        >
        >
        The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a
        press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing.
        Maybe bigger motors require other kinds of monkeying around to make them
        fit...

        I saved my three-phase motor, and I'm looking forward to the day I can
        put it back on.

        Joel




        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Michael T. Metz
        My Heidelberg parts book talks about the different motors to use with different electricity setups. The single current setup has a caveat. Granted this book
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
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          My Heidelberg parts book talks about the different
          motors to use with different electricity setups.
          The single current setup has a caveat. Granted
          this book was written in the 50s, and motor technology
          has probably changed.

          For Single-phase Alternating Current:

          One single phase alternating current motor, 1.1kW=1.5 HP rated
          output, 1400 to 1500 rpm. Drip proof. Standard base motor with
          free shaft end. ...

          Then it continues, and this might be your problem.

          "This applies only to the repulsion motor with commutator.
          Induction motors are not suitable, because of their inability to
          start under load. The repulsion motor, on the other hand, has
          a high starting torque; however, it has the characteristic of
          racing (increasing the speed to a dangerous extent) when
          started without load. Therefore, it is necessary to arrange a single-
          phase switch which is attached to the bracket carrying the
          sucker bar movement in such a way that if the machine is stopped
          by means of the handle the curcuit is also broken."

          I personally couldn't tell you the difference between a repulsion
          and an induction motor, or know if there is a third kind out
          there that would work better. The point of all this: I shouldn't
          be giving advice on what to do. Do you hear that Mable?

          Mike

          -----Original Message-----
          From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
          Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 4:58 PM
          To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


          Michael T. Metz wrote:

          >Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
          >Folks have told me that the HP rating on
          >a single phase motor won't pull what the
          >same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
          >motor?
          >
          >
          >
          The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a
          press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing.
          Maybe bigger motors require other kinds of monkeying around to make them
          fit...

          I saved my three-phase motor, and I'm looking forward to the day I can
          put it back on.

          Joel




          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Joel at D.L.
          ... It s 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn t bog down or cause other
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 6, 2005
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            Michael T. Metz wrote:

            >Does the motor bog down when you engage
            >the clutch? What are the other specs on
            >the motor? RPM, etc.
            >
            >

            It's 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the
            Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn't bog down
            or cause other problems- it's only when running a heavy forme on a long
            run at high speed that it pops the breaker. And even then, it's like
            every 8 or 9 hundred it shuts off, unless I crank the speed down. Which
            I do- I like it to keep running and anyway someone told me it's bad to
            keep popping a breaker.

            It's all on the level of minor annoyance, but as a believer in Doing It
            Right I aspire to restoring the three-phase power. Now I feel like a
            bit of a whiner; but in the great internet tradition of maximum
            information, there is my experience with single phase.

            Heidelberg may have accomodated the need to use single-phase power, but
            I'm sure the machines were engineered with three-phase in mind. It's
            standand, for industrial applications.

            Joel
          • chuck sumner
            I recall a thread on the letpress list that may be useful and inexpensive https://listserv.unb.ca/cgi-bin/wa?
            Message 5 of 21 , Nov 6, 2005
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              I recall a thread on the letpress list that may be useful and
              inexpensive

              https://listserv.unb.ca/cgi-bin/wa?
              A2=ind0407&L=LETPRESS&P=R33002&D=0&H=0&I=-3&O=T&T=0

              or: http://tinyurl.com/7jqmv

              Good luck


              On Nov 3, 2005, at 8:36 AM, mableylee wrote:

              > Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen and
              > 12x18 C&P NS). Both
              > are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the
              > printing company I
              > purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another
              > building with only single
              > phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines
              > running? (A few have
              > suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others
              > have advised replacing
              > the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would
              > greatly be appreciated!
              > Much thanks, Mable
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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            • Fritz Klinke
              If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary converter. We
              Message 6 of 21 , Nov 7, 2005
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                If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on
                the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary
                converter. We consulted with our local electrician who is a master licensed
                guy, and he suggested that we needed a new motor control switch or to change
                the heater links in the control that trip the breaker. We never tripped the
                main breaker in the electric panel that this press runs off. So, we just
                eliminated the breaker in the motor starter switch and it has run well since
                on many thousands of impressions. We couldn't figure if it had something to
                do with the use of the converter, or something else. I don't think it is a
                safety issue with the motor overheating because I am always present when the
                press is running and the motor never seems to get that hot. I cleaned out
                years of accumulated dust, lint, and crud inside the motor that was blocking
                air flow, and it just hums along.

                Fritz

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Joel at D.L." <dep.letterpress@...>
                To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:37 AM
                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                > Michael T. Metz wrote:
                >
                >>Does the motor bog down when you engage
                >>the clutch? What are the other specs on
                >>the motor? RPM, etc.
                >>
                >>
                >
                > It's 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the
                > Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn't bog down
                > or cause other problems- it's only when running a heavy forme on a long
                > run at high speed that it pops the breaker. And even then, it's like
                > every 8 or 9 hundred it shuts off, unless I crank the speed down. Which
                > I do- I like it to keep running and anyway someone told me it's bad to
                > keep popping a breaker.
                >
                > It's all on the level of minor annoyance, but as a believer in Doing It
                > Right I aspire to restoring the three-phase power. Now I feel like a
                > bit of a whiner; but in the great internet tradition of maximum
                > information, there is my experience with single phase.
                >
                > Heidelberg may have accomodated the need to use single-phase power, but
                > I'm sure the machines were engineered with three-phase in mind. It's
                > standand, for industrial applications.
                >
                > Joel
                >
              • Michael T. Metz
                Bingo Fritz. I think you scored on that one. That s a $25 fix. ... From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Fritz
                Message 7 of 21 , Nov 7, 2005
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                  Bingo Fritz. I think you scored on that one.
                  That's a $25 fix.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Fritz Klinke
                  Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:19 AM
                  To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                  If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on
                  the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary
                  converter. We consulted with our local electrician who is a master licensed
                  guy, and he suggested that we needed a new motor control switch or to change
                  the heater links in the control that trip the breaker. We never tripped the
                  main breaker in the electric panel that this press runs off. So, we just
                  eliminated the breaker in the motor starter switch and it has run well since
                  on many thousands of impressions. We couldn't figure if it had something to
                  do with the use of the converter, or something else. I don't think it is a
                  safety issue with the motor overheating because I am always present when the
                  press is running and the motor never seems to get that hot. I cleaned out
                  years of accumulated dust, lint, and crud inside the motor that was blocking
                  air flow, and it just hums along.

                  Fritz

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Joel at D.L." <dep.letterpress@...>
                  To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:37 AM
                  Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                  > Michael T. Metz wrote:
                  >
                  >>Does the motor bog down when you engage
                  >>the clutch? What are the other specs on
                  >>the motor? RPM, etc.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  > It's 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the
                  > Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn't bog down
                  > or cause other problems- it's only when running a heavy forme on a long
                  > run at high speed that it pops the breaker. And even then, it's like
                  > every 8 or 9 hundred it shuts off, unless I crank the speed down. Which
                  > I do- I like it to keep running and anyway someone told me it's bad to
                  > keep popping a breaker.
                  >
                  > It's all on the level of minor annoyance, but as a believer in Doing It
                  > Right I aspire to restoring the three-phase power. Now I feel like a
                  > bit of a whiner; but in the great internet tradition of maximum
                  > information, there is my experience with single phase.
                  >
                  > Heidelberg may have accomodated the need to use single-phase power, but
                  > I'm sure the machines were engineered with three-phase in mind. It's
                  > standand, for industrial applications.
                  >
                  > Joel
                  >






                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Joel at D.L.
                  Hi Fritz- I never considered the breaker being the problem- maybe you re right. I am indeed referring to the breaker on the motor control switch. It came
                  Message 8 of 21 , Nov 7, 2005
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                    Hi Fritz-
                    I never considered the breaker being the problem- maybe you're right. I
                    am indeed referring to the breaker on the motor control switch. It came
                    with the press and is not new. I've never tripped the main breaker in
                    the electrical panel either. Thanks!

                    Joel

                    Fritz Klinke wrote:

                    >If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on
                    >the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary
                    >converter.
                    >
                    >
                    >
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