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RE: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.

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  • Michael T. Metz
    Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor. Folks have told me that the HP rating on a single phase motor won t pull what the same rating on a 3ph. What HP is
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
      Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
      Folks have told me that the HP rating on
      a single phase motor won't pull what the
      same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
      motor?

      -----Original Message-----
      From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
      Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:56 AM
      To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


      I put a single-phase motor on a 10 x 15 windmill, but I find it doesn't
      have the power that the three-phase motors do. The speed runs
      considerably slower than the figure on the speed control would indicate,
      and I find that it overheats when I run it too fast with a heavy forme,
      and pops the breaker built in to the on-off switch. So I just slow it
      down. It's only a problem on long runs with lots of printing area.

      I don't have any experience with phase converters, but if I were to do
      it again I'd get the converter. Or, if you're in it for the long haul,
      get the electrical service upgrade.

      Joel

      Dependable Letterpress
      San Francisco


      mableylee wrote:

      >Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen and 12x18
      C&P NS). Both
      >are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the
      printing company I
      >purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another building with
      only single
      >phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines running? (A few
      have
      >suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others have
      advised replacing
      >the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would greatly be
      appreciated!
      >Much thanks, Mable
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >




      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Joel at D.L.
      ... The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing. Maybe bigger
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
        Michael T. Metz wrote:

        >Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
        >Folks have told me that the HP rating on
        >a single phase motor won't pull what the
        >same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
        >motor?
        >
        >
        >
        The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a
        press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing.
        Maybe bigger motors require other kinds of monkeying around to make them
        fit...

        I saved my three-phase motor, and I'm looking forward to the day I can
        put it back on.

        Joel
      • mableylee
        Hello Michael, The Heidelberg has 3hp, C&P has 2. ... doesn t ... indicate, ... forme, ... it ... do ... haul, ... and 12x18 ... building with ... running? (A
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
          Hello Michael,

          The Heidelberg has 3hp, C&P has 2.


          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Michael T. Metz" <mtmetz@s...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
          > Folks have told me that the HP rating on
          > a single phase motor won't pull what the
          > same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
          > motor?
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
          > Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:56 AM
          > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.
          >
          >
          > I put a single-phase motor on a 10 x 15 windmill, but I find it
          doesn't
          > have the power that the three-phase motors do. The speed runs
          > considerably slower than the figure on the speed control would
          indicate,
          > and I find that it overheats when I run it too fast with a heavy
          forme,
          > and pops the breaker built in to the on-off switch. So I just slow
          it
          > down. It's only a problem on long runs with lots of printing area.
          >
          > I don't have any experience with phase converters, but if I were to
          do
          > it again I'd get the converter. Or, if you're in it for the long
          haul,
          > get the electrical service upgrade.
          >
          > Joel
          >
          > Dependable Letterpress
          > San Francisco
          >
          >
          > mableylee wrote:
          >
          > >Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen
          and 12x18
          > C&P NS). Both
          > >are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the
          > printing company I
          > >purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another
          building with
          > only single
          > >phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines
          running? (A few
          > have
          > >suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others
          have
          > advised replacing
          > >the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would
          greatly be
          > appreciated!
          > >Much thanks, Mable
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
        • Michael T. Metz
          Hi Joel, Sorry about how that turned out. I think you should talk to the guy that set you up with the 2hp motor. It doesn t sound like he did his job. Does the
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
            Hi Joel,

            Sorry about how that turned out. I think
            you should talk to the guy that set you
            up with the 2hp motor. It doesn't sound
            like he did his job.

            Does the motor bog down when you engage
            the clutch? What are the other specs on
            the motor? RPM, etc.

            Mike



            -----Original Message-----
            From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
            Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 4:58 PM
            To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


            Michael T. Metz wrote:

            >Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
            >Folks have told me that the HP rating on
            >a single phase motor won't pull what the
            >same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
            >motor?
            >
            >
            >
            The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a
            press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing.
            Maybe bigger motors require other kinds of monkeying around to make them
            fit...

            I saved my three-phase motor, and I'm looking forward to the day I can
            put it back on.

            Joel




            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Michael T. Metz
            My Heidelberg parts book talks about the different motors to use with different electricity setups. The single current setup has a caveat. Granted this book
            Message 5 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
              My Heidelberg parts book talks about the different
              motors to use with different electricity setups.
              The single current setup has a caveat. Granted
              this book was written in the 50s, and motor technology
              has probably changed.

              For Single-phase Alternating Current:

              One single phase alternating current motor, 1.1kW=1.5 HP rated
              output, 1400 to 1500 rpm. Drip proof. Standard base motor with
              free shaft end. ...

              Then it continues, and this might be your problem.

              "This applies only to the repulsion motor with commutator.
              Induction motors are not suitable, because of their inability to
              start under load. The repulsion motor, on the other hand, has
              a high starting torque; however, it has the characteristic of
              racing (increasing the speed to a dangerous extent) when
              started without load. Therefore, it is necessary to arrange a single-
              phase switch which is attached to the bracket carrying the
              sucker bar movement in such a way that if the machine is stopped
              by means of the handle the curcuit is also broken."

              I personally couldn't tell you the difference between a repulsion
              and an induction motor, or know if there is a third kind out
              there that would work better. The point of all this: I shouldn't
              be giving advice on what to do. Do you hear that Mable?

              Mike

              -----Original Message-----
              From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
              Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 4:58 PM
              To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


              Michael T. Metz wrote:

              >Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
              >Folks have told me that the HP rating on
              >a single phase motor won't pull what the
              >same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
              >motor?
              >
              >
              >
              The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a
              press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing.
              Maybe bigger motors require other kinds of monkeying around to make them
              fit...

              I saved my three-phase motor, and I'm looking forward to the day I can
              put it back on.

              Joel




              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Joel at D.L.
              ... It s 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn t bog down or cause other
              Message 6 of 21 , Nov 6, 2005
                Michael T. Metz wrote:

                >Does the motor bog down when you engage
                >the clutch? What are the other specs on
                >the motor? RPM, etc.
                >
                >

                It's 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the
                Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn't bog down
                or cause other problems- it's only when running a heavy forme on a long
                run at high speed that it pops the breaker. And even then, it's like
                every 8 or 9 hundred it shuts off, unless I crank the speed down. Which
                I do- I like it to keep running and anyway someone told me it's bad to
                keep popping a breaker.

                It's all on the level of minor annoyance, but as a believer in Doing It
                Right I aspire to restoring the three-phase power. Now I feel like a
                bit of a whiner; but in the great internet tradition of maximum
                information, there is my experience with single phase.

                Heidelberg may have accomodated the need to use single-phase power, but
                I'm sure the machines were engineered with three-phase in mind. It's
                standand, for industrial applications.

                Joel
              • chuck sumner
                I recall a thread on the letpress list that may be useful and inexpensive https://listserv.unb.ca/cgi-bin/wa?
                Message 7 of 21 , Nov 6, 2005
                  I recall a thread on the letpress list that may be useful and
                  inexpensive

                  https://listserv.unb.ca/cgi-bin/wa?
                  A2=ind0407&L=LETPRESS&P=R33002&D=0&H=0&I=-3&O=T&T=0

                  or: http://tinyurl.com/7jqmv

                  Good luck


                  On Nov 3, 2005, at 8:36 AM, mableylee wrote:

                  > Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen and
                  > 12x18 C&P NS). Both
                  > are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the
                  > printing company I
                  > purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another
                  > building with only single
                  > phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines
                  > running? (A few have
                  > suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others
                  > have advised replacing
                  > the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would
                  > greatly be appreciated!
                  > Much thanks, Mable
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your
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                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > ~->
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Fritz Klinke
                  If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary converter. We
                  Message 8 of 21 , Nov 7, 2005
                    If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on
                    the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary
                    converter. We consulted with our local electrician who is a master licensed
                    guy, and he suggested that we needed a new motor control switch or to change
                    the heater links in the control that trip the breaker. We never tripped the
                    main breaker in the electric panel that this press runs off. So, we just
                    eliminated the breaker in the motor starter switch and it has run well since
                    on many thousands of impressions. We couldn't figure if it had something to
                    do with the use of the converter, or something else. I don't think it is a
                    safety issue with the motor overheating because I am always present when the
                    press is running and the motor never seems to get that hot. I cleaned out
                    years of accumulated dust, lint, and crud inside the motor that was blocking
                    air flow, and it just hums along.

                    Fritz

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Joel at D.L." <dep.letterpress@...>
                    To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:37 AM
                    Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                    > Michael T. Metz wrote:
                    >
                    >>Does the motor bog down when you engage
                    >>the clutch? What are the other specs on
                    >>the motor? RPM, etc.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    > It's 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the
                    > Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn't bog down
                    > or cause other problems- it's only when running a heavy forme on a long
                    > run at high speed that it pops the breaker. And even then, it's like
                    > every 8 or 9 hundred it shuts off, unless I crank the speed down. Which
                    > I do- I like it to keep running and anyway someone told me it's bad to
                    > keep popping a breaker.
                    >
                    > It's all on the level of minor annoyance, but as a believer in Doing It
                    > Right I aspire to restoring the three-phase power. Now I feel like a
                    > bit of a whiner; but in the great internet tradition of maximum
                    > information, there is my experience with single phase.
                    >
                    > Heidelberg may have accomodated the need to use single-phase power, but
                    > I'm sure the machines were engineered with three-phase in mind. It's
                    > standand, for industrial applications.
                    >
                    > Joel
                    >
                  • Michael T. Metz
                    Bingo Fritz. I think you scored on that one. That s a $25 fix. ... From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Fritz
                    Message 9 of 21 , Nov 7, 2005
                      Bingo Fritz. I think you scored on that one.
                      That's a $25 fix.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Fritz Klinke
                      Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:19 AM
                      To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                      If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on
                      the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary
                      converter. We consulted with our local electrician who is a master licensed
                      guy, and he suggested that we needed a new motor control switch or to change
                      the heater links in the control that trip the breaker. We never tripped the
                      main breaker in the electric panel that this press runs off. So, we just
                      eliminated the breaker in the motor starter switch and it has run well since
                      on many thousands of impressions. We couldn't figure if it had something to
                      do with the use of the converter, or something else. I don't think it is a
                      safety issue with the motor overheating because I am always present when the
                      press is running and the motor never seems to get that hot. I cleaned out
                      years of accumulated dust, lint, and crud inside the motor that was blocking
                      air flow, and it just hums along.

                      Fritz

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Joel at D.L." <dep.letterpress@...>
                      To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:37 AM
                      Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                      > Michael T. Metz wrote:
                      >
                      >>Does the motor bog down when you engage
                      >>the clutch? What are the other specs on
                      >>the motor? RPM, etc.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      > It's 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the
                      > Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn't bog down
                      > or cause other problems- it's only when running a heavy forme on a long
                      > run at high speed that it pops the breaker. And even then, it's like
                      > every 8 or 9 hundred it shuts off, unless I crank the speed down. Which
                      > I do- I like it to keep running and anyway someone told me it's bad to
                      > keep popping a breaker.
                      >
                      > It's all on the level of minor annoyance, but as a believer in Doing It
                      > Right I aspire to restoring the three-phase power. Now I feel like a
                      > bit of a whiner; but in the great internet tradition of maximum
                      > information, there is my experience with single phase.
                      >
                      > Heidelberg may have accomodated the need to use single-phase power, but
                      > I'm sure the machines were engineered with three-phase in mind. It's
                      > standand, for industrial applications.
                      >
                      > Joel
                      >






                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Joel at D.L.
                      Hi Fritz- I never considered the breaker being the problem- maybe you re right. I am indeed referring to the breaker on the motor control switch. It came
                      Message 10 of 21 , Nov 7, 2005
                        Hi Fritz-
                        I never considered the breaker being the problem- maybe you're right. I
                        am indeed referring to the breaker on the motor control switch. It came
                        with the press and is not new. I've never tripped the main breaker in
                        the electrical panel either. Thanks!

                        Joel

                        Fritz Klinke wrote:

                        >If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on
                        >the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary
                        >converter.
                        >
                        >
                        >
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