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Re: 3 phase to single, help please.

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  • Casey
    I m going through the same thing, i have a 3 phase motor on my Vandercook 32-28 and I need to make it a single phase. To have my box and a line run would be a
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
      I'm going through the same thing, i have a 3 phase motor on my Vandercook 32-28 and I
      need to make it a single phase. To have my box and a line run would be a $1000 easy what
      I'm told, but I can buy the motor for $475. I'm buying the motor.

      ::
      Casey McGarr
      BarGarr Letterpress
    • Casey
      I m going through the same thing, i have a 3 phase motor on my Vandercook 32-28 and I need to make it a single phase. To have my box converted and a line run
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
        I'm going through the same thing, i have a 3 phase motor on my Vandercook 32-28 and I
        need to make it a single phase. To have my box converted and a line run would be a $1000
        easy what I'm told, but I can buy the Single phase motor for $475, I'm buying the motor.

        ::
        Casey McGarr
        BarGarr Letterpress
      • mableylee
        Thank you for all the great suggestions and advice! It s nice to know I have a few options. Take care, Mable
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
          Thank you for all the great suggestions and advice! It's nice to know
          I have a few options. Take care, Mable
        • Joel at D.L.
          I put a single-phase motor on a 10 x 15 windmill, but I find it doesn t have the power that the three-phase motors do. The speed runs considerably slower than
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
            I put a single-phase motor on a 10 x 15 windmill, but I find it doesn't
            have the power that the three-phase motors do. The speed runs
            considerably slower than the figure on the speed control would indicate,
            and I find that it overheats when I run it too fast with a heavy forme,
            and pops the breaker built in to the on-off switch. So I just slow it
            down. It's only a problem on long runs with lots of printing area.

            I don't have any experience with phase converters, but if I were to do
            it again I'd get the converter. Or, if you're in it for the long haul,
            get the electrical service upgrade.

            Joel

            Dependable Letterpress
            San Francisco


            mableylee wrote:

            >Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen and 12x18 C&P NS). Both
            >are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the printing company I
            >purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another building with only single
            >phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines running? (A few have
            >suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others have advised replacing
            >the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would greatly be appreciated!
            >Much thanks, Mable
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Michael T. Metz
            Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor. Folks have told me that the HP rating on a single phase motor won t pull what the same rating on a 3ph. What HP is
            Message 5 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
              Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
              Folks have told me that the HP rating on
              a single phase motor won't pull what the
              same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
              motor?

              -----Original Message-----
              From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
              Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:56 AM
              To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


              I put a single-phase motor on a 10 x 15 windmill, but I find it doesn't
              have the power that the three-phase motors do. The speed runs
              considerably slower than the figure on the speed control would indicate,
              and I find that it overheats when I run it too fast with a heavy forme,
              and pops the breaker built in to the on-off switch. So I just slow it
              down. It's only a problem on long runs with lots of printing area.

              I don't have any experience with phase converters, but if I were to do
              it again I'd get the converter. Or, if you're in it for the long haul,
              get the electrical service upgrade.

              Joel

              Dependable Letterpress
              San Francisco


              mableylee wrote:

              >Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen and 12x18
              C&P NS). Both
              >are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the
              printing company I
              >purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another building with
              only single
              >phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines running? (A few
              have
              >suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others have
              advised replacing
              >the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would greatly be
              appreciated!
              >Much thanks, Mable
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >




              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Joel at D.L.
              ... The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing. Maybe bigger
              Message 6 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
                Michael T. Metz wrote:

                >Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
                >Folks have told me that the HP rating on
                >a single phase motor won't pull what the
                >same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
                >motor?
                >
                >
                >
                The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a
                press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing.
                Maybe bigger motors require other kinds of monkeying around to make them
                fit...

                I saved my three-phase motor, and I'm looking forward to the day I can
                put it back on.

                Joel
              • mableylee
                Hello Michael, The Heidelberg has 3hp, C&P has 2. ... doesn t ... indicate, ... forme, ... it ... do ... haul, ... and 12x18 ... building with ... running? (A
                Message 7 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
                  Hello Michael,

                  The Heidelberg has 3hp, C&P has 2.


                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Michael T. Metz" <mtmetz@s...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
                  > Folks have told me that the HP rating on
                  > a single phase motor won't pull what the
                  > same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
                  > motor?
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
                  > Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:56 AM
                  > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.
                  >
                  >
                  > I put a single-phase motor on a 10 x 15 windmill, but I find it
                  doesn't
                  > have the power that the three-phase motors do. The speed runs
                  > considerably slower than the figure on the speed control would
                  indicate,
                  > and I find that it overheats when I run it too fast with a heavy
                  forme,
                  > and pops the breaker built in to the on-off switch. So I just slow
                  it
                  > down. It's only a problem on long runs with lots of printing area.
                  >
                  > I don't have any experience with phase converters, but if I were to
                  do
                  > it again I'd get the converter. Or, if you're in it for the long
                  haul,
                  > get the electrical service upgrade.
                  >
                  > Joel
                  >
                  > Dependable Letterpress
                  > San Francisco
                  >
                  >
                  > mableylee wrote:
                  >
                  > >Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen
                  and 12x18
                  > C&P NS). Both
                  > >are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the
                  > printing company I
                  > >purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another
                  building with
                  > only single
                  > >phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines
                  running? (A few
                  > have
                  > >suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others
                  have
                  > advised replacing
                  > >the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would
                  greatly be
                  > appreciated!
                  > >Much thanks, Mable
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                • Michael T. Metz
                  Hi Joel, Sorry about how that turned out. I think you should talk to the guy that set you up with the 2hp motor. It doesn t sound like he did his job. Does the
                  Message 8 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
                    Hi Joel,

                    Sorry about how that turned out. I think
                    you should talk to the guy that set you
                    up with the 2hp motor. It doesn't sound
                    like he did his job.

                    Does the motor bog down when you engage
                    the clutch? What are the other specs on
                    the motor? RPM, etc.

                    Mike



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
                    Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 4:58 PM
                    To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                    Michael T. Metz wrote:

                    >Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
                    >Folks have told me that the HP rating on
                    >a single phase motor won't pull what the
                    >same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
                    >motor?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a
                    press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing.
                    Maybe bigger motors require other kinds of monkeying around to make them
                    fit...

                    I saved my three-phase motor, and I'm looking forward to the day I can
                    put it back on.

                    Joel




                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Michael T. Metz
                    My Heidelberg parts book talks about the different motors to use with different electricity setups. The single current setup has a caveat. Granted this book
                    Message 9 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
                      My Heidelberg parts book talks about the different
                      motors to use with different electricity setups.
                      The single current setup has a caveat. Granted
                      this book was written in the 50s, and motor technology
                      has probably changed.

                      For Single-phase Alternating Current:

                      One single phase alternating current motor, 1.1kW=1.5 HP rated
                      output, 1400 to 1500 rpm. Drip proof. Standard base motor with
                      free shaft end. ...

                      Then it continues, and this might be your problem.

                      "This applies only to the repulsion motor with commutator.
                      Induction motors are not suitable, because of their inability to
                      start under load. The repulsion motor, on the other hand, has
                      a high starting torque; however, it has the characteristic of
                      racing (increasing the speed to a dangerous extent) when
                      started without load. Therefore, it is necessary to arrange a single-
                      phase switch which is attached to the bracket carrying the
                      sucker bar movement in such a way that if the machine is stopped
                      by means of the handle the curcuit is also broken."

                      I personally couldn't tell you the difference between a repulsion
                      and an induction motor, or know if there is a third kind out
                      there that would work better. The point of all this: I shouldn't
                      be giving advice on what to do. Do you hear that Mable?

                      Mike

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
                      Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 4:58 PM
                      To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                      Michael T. Metz wrote:

                      >Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
                      >Folks have told me that the HP rating on
                      >a single phase motor won't pull what the
                      >same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
                      >motor?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a
                      press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing.
                      Maybe bigger motors require other kinds of monkeying around to make them
                      fit...

                      I saved my three-phase motor, and I'm looking forward to the day I can
                      put it back on.

                      Joel




                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Joel at D.L.
                      ... It s 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn t bog down or cause other
                      Message 10 of 21 , Nov 6, 2005
                        Michael T. Metz wrote:

                        >Does the motor bog down when you engage
                        >the clutch? What are the other specs on
                        >the motor? RPM, etc.
                        >
                        >

                        It's 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the
                        Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn't bog down
                        or cause other problems- it's only when running a heavy forme on a long
                        run at high speed that it pops the breaker. And even then, it's like
                        every 8 or 9 hundred it shuts off, unless I crank the speed down. Which
                        I do- I like it to keep running and anyway someone told me it's bad to
                        keep popping a breaker.

                        It's all on the level of minor annoyance, but as a believer in Doing It
                        Right I aspire to restoring the three-phase power. Now I feel like a
                        bit of a whiner; but in the great internet tradition of maximum
                        information, there is my experience with single phase.

                        Heidelberg may have accomodated the need to use single-phase power, but
                        I'm sure the machines were engineered with three-phase in mind. It's
                        standand, for industrial applications.

                        Joel
                      • chuck sumner
                        I recall a thread on the letpress list that may be useful and inexpensive https://listserv.unb.ca/cgi-bin/wa?
                        Message 11 of 21 , Nov 6, 2005
                          I recall a thread on the letpress list that may be useful and
                          inexpensive

                          https://listserv.unb.ca/cgi-bin/wa?
                          A2=ind0407&L=LETPRESS&P=R33002&D=0&H=0&I=-3&O=T&T=0

                          or: http://tinyurl.com/7jqmv

                          Good luck


                          On Nov 3, 2005, at 8:36 AM, mableylee wrote:

                          > Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen and
                          > 12x18 C&P NS). Both
                          > are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the
                          > printing company I
                          > purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another
                          > building with only single
                          > phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines
                          > running? (A few have
                          > suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others
                          > have advised replacing
                          > the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would
                          > greatly be appreciated!
                          > Much thanks, Mable
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                          > ~->
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                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                        • Fritz Klinke
                          If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary converter. We
                          Message 12 of 21 , Nov 7, 2005
                            If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on
                            the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary
                            converter. We consulted with our local electrician who is a master licensed
                            guy, and he suggested that we needed a new motor control switch or to change
                            the heater links in the control that trip the breaker. We never tripped the
                            main breaker in the electric panel that this press runs off. So, we just
                            eliminated the breaker in the motor starter switch and it has run well since
                            on many thousands of impressions. We couldn't figure if it had something to
                            do with the use of the converter, or something else. I don't think it is a
                            safety issue with the motor overheating because I am always present when the
                            press is running and the motor never seems to get that hot. I cleaned out
                            years of accumulated dust, lint, and crud inside the motor that was blocking
                            air flow, and it just hums along.

                            Fritz

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Joel at D.L." <dep.letterpress@...>
                            To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:37 AM
                            Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                            > Michael T. Metz wrote:
                            >
                            >>Does the motor bog down when you engage
                            >>the clutch? What are the other specs on
                            >>the motor? RPM, etc.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            > It's 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the
                            > Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn't bog down
                            > or cause other problems- it's only when running a heavy forme on a long
                            > run at high speed that it pops the breaker. And even then, it's like
                            > every 8 or 9 hundred it shuts off, unless I crank the speed down. Which
                            > I do- I like it to keep running and anyway someone told me it's bad to
                            > keep popping a breaker.
                            >
                            > It's all on the level of minor annoyance, but as a believer in Doing It
                            > Right I aspire to restoring the three-phase power. Now I feel like a
                            > bit of a whiner; but in the great internet tradition of maximum
                            > information, there is my experience with single phase.
                            >
                            > Heidelberg may have accomodated the need to use single-phase power, but
                            > I'm sure the machines were engineered with three-phase in mind. It's
                            > standand, for industrial applications.
                            >
                            > Joel
                            >
                          • Michael T. Metz
                            Bingo Fritz. I think you scored on that one. That s a $25 fix. ... From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Fritz
                            Message 13 of 21 , Nov 7, 2005
                              Bingo Fritz. I think you scored on that one.
                              That's a $25 fix.

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                              [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Fritz Klinke
                              Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:19 AM
                              To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                              If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on
                              the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary
                              converter. We consulted with our local electrician who is a master licensed
                              guy, and he suggested that we needed a new motor control switch or to change
                              the heater links in the control that trip the breaker. We never tripped the
                              main breaker in the electric panel that this press runs off. So, we just
                              eliminated the breaker in the motor starter switch and it has run well since
                              on many thousands of impressions. We couldn't figure if it had something to
                              do with the use of the converter, or something else. I don't think it is a
                              safety issue with the motor overheating because I am always present when the
                              press is running and the motor never seems to get that hot. I cleaned out
                              years of accumulated dust, lint, and crud inside the motor that was blocking
                              air flow, and it just hums along.

                              Fritz

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Joel at D.L." <dep.letterpress@...>
                              To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:37 AM
                              Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                              > Michael T. Metz wrote:
                              >
                              >>Does the motor bog down when you engage
                              >>the clutch? What are the other specs on
                              >>the motor? RPM, etc.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              > It's 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the
                              > Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn't bog down
                              > or cause other problems- it's only when running a heavy forme on a long
                              > run at high speed that it pops the breaker. And even then, it's like
                              > every 8 or 9 hundred it shuts off, unless I crank the speed down. Which
                              > I do- I like it to keep running and anyway someone told me it's bad to
                              > keep popping a breaker.
                              >
                              > It's all on the level of minor annoyance, but as a believer in Doing It
                              > Right I aspire to restoring the three-phase power. Now I feel like a
                              > bit of a whiner; but in the great internet tradition of maximum
                              > information, there is my experience with single phase.
                              >
                              > Heidelberg may have accomodated the need to use single-phase power, but
                              > I'm sure the machines were engineered with three-phase in mind. It's
                              > standand, for industrial applications.
                              >
                              > Joel
                              >






                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                            • Joel at D.L.
                              Hi Fritz- I never considered the breaker being the problem- maybe you re right. I am indeed referring to the breaker on the motor control switch. It came
                              Message 14 of 21 , Nov 7, 2005
                                Hi Fritz-
                                I never considered the breaker being the problem- maybe you're right. I
                                am indeed referring to the breaker on the motor control switch. It came
                                with the press and is not new. I've never tripped the main breaker in
                                the electrical panel either. Thanks!

                                Joel

                                Fritz Klinke wrote:

                                >If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on
                                >the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary
                                >converter.
                                >
                                >
                                >
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