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RE: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.

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  • mark baisi
    Hi, A year ago I had to buy a 3 phase converter for my Heidelberg GTO. I got a very small transitor unit from speedco for a mere $400.00 cdn. It s a small box
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
      Hi,
      A year ago I had to buy a 3 phase converter for my Heidelberg GTO. I got a
      very small transitor unit from speedco for a mere $400.00 cdn. It's a small
      box that mounts on the wall, about 6 inches square. The conversion is done
      with transistors etc so the unit does not put out any noise or heat. I was
      doubtful about the unit when I first purchased it as I had only seen big
      mechanical converters more around the $2000 mark.
      It has worked flawlessly for a year, and has had many long hard shifts. The
      unit is programable as well so you can adjust the speed in which in comes up
      to power and how it shuts down. All original wiring and safeties remain
      intact.
      If and when I get another piece of three phase equipment I wouldn't
      hesitate to buy another one of these units.
      mark

      >From: "mableylee" <mableylee@...>
      >Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.
      >Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:36:33 -0000
      >
      >Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen and 12x18
      >C&P NS). Both
      >are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the
      >printing company I
      >purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another building with
      >only single
      >phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines running? (A few
      >have
      >suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others have
      >advised replacing
      >the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would greatly be
      >appreciated!
      >Much thanks, Mable
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Casey
      I m going through the same thing, i have a 3 phase motor on my Vandercook 32-28 and I need to make it a single phase. To have my box and a line run would be a
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
        I'm going through the same thing, i have a 3 phase motor on my Vandercook 32-28 and I
        need to make it a single phase. To have my box and a line run would be a $1000 easy what
        I'm told, but I can buy the motor for $475. I'm buying the motor.

        ::
        Casey McGarr
        BarGarr Letterpress
      • Casey
        I m going through the same thing, i have a 3 phase motor on my Vandercook 32-28 and I need to make it a single phase. To have my box converted and a line run
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
          I'm going through the same thing, i have a 3 phase motor on my Vandercook 32-28 and I
          need to make it a single phase. To have my box converted and a line run would be a $1000
          easy what I'm told, but I can buy the Single phase motor for $475, I'm buying the motor.

          ::
          Casey McGarr
          BarGarr Letterpress
        • mableylee
          Thank you for all the great suggestions and advice! It s nice to know I have a few options. Take care, Mable
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
            Thank you for all the great suggestions and advice! It's nice to know
            I have a few options. Take care, Mable
          • Joel at D.L.
            I put a single-phase motor on a 10 x 15 windmill, but I find it doesn t have the power that the three-phase motors do. The speed runs considerably slower than
            Message 5 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
              I put a single-phase motor on a 10 x 15 windmill, but I find it doesn't
              have the power that the three-phase motors do. The speed runs
              considerably slower than the figure on the speed control would indicate,
              and I find that it overheats when I run it too fast with a heavy forme,
              and pops the breaker built in to the on-off switch. So I just slow it
              down. It's only a problem on long runs with lots of printing area.

              I don't have any experience with phase converters, but if I were to do
              it again I'd get the converter. Or, if you're in it for the long haul,
              get the electrical service upgrade.

              Joel

              Dependable Letterpress
              San Francisco


              mableylee wrote:

              >Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen and 12x18 C&P NS). Both
              >are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the printing company I
              >purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another building with only single
              >phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines running? (A few have
              >suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others have advised replacing
              >the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would greatly be appreciated!
              >Much thanks, Mable
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Michael T. Metz
              Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor. Folks have told me that the HP rating on a single phase motor won t pull what the same rating on a 3ph. What HP is
              Message 6 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
                Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
                Folks have told me that the HP rating on
                a single phase motor won't pull what the
                same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
                motor?

                -----Original Message-----
                From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
                Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:56 AM
                To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                I put a single-phase motor on a 10 x 15 windmill, but I find it doesn't
                have the power that the three-phase motors do. The speed runs
                considerably slower than the figure on the speed control would indicate,
                and I find that it overheats when I run it too fast with a heavy forme,
                and pops the breaker built in to the on-off switch. So I just slow it
                down. It's only a problem on long runs with lots of printing area.

                I don't have any experience with phase converters, but if I were to do
                it again I'd get the converter. Or, if you're in it for the long haul,
                get the electrical service upgrade.

                Joel

                Dependable Letterpress
                San Francisco


                mableylee wrote:

                >Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen and 12x18
                C&P NS). Both
                >are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the
                printing company I
                >purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another building with
                only single
                >phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines running? (A few
                have
                >suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others have
                advised replacing
                >the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would greatly be
                appreciated!
                >Much thanks, Mable
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >




                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Joel at D.L.
                ... The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing. Maybe bigger
                Message 7 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
                  Michael T. Metz wrote:

                  >Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
                  >Folks have told me that the HP rating on
                  >a single phase motor won't pull what the
                  >same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
                  >motor?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a
                  press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing.
                  Maybe bigger motors require other kinds of monkeying around to make them
                  fit...

                  I saved my three-phase motor, and I'm looking forward to the day I can
                  put it back on.

                  Joel
                • mableylee
                  Hello Michael, The Heidelberg has 3hp, C&P has 2. ... doesn t ... indicate, ... forme, ... it ... do ... haul, ... and 12x18 ... building with ... running? (A
                  Message 8 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
                    Hello Michael,

                    The Heidelberg has 3hp, C&P has 2.


                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Michael T. Metz" <mtmetz@s...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
                    > Folks have told me that the HP rating on
                    > a single phase motor won't pull what the
                    > same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
                    > motor?
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
                    > Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:56 AM
                    > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.
                    >
                    >
                    > I put a single-phase motor on a 10 x 15 windmill, but I find it
                    doesn't
                    > have the power that the three-phase motors do. The speed runs
                    > considerably slower than the figure on the speed control would
                    indicate,
                    > and I find that it overheats when I run it too fast with a heavy
                    forme,
                    > and pops the breaker built in to the on-off switch. So I just slow
                    it
                    > down. It's only a problem on long runs with lots of printing area.
                    >
                    > I don't have any experience with phase converters, but if I were to
                    do
                    > it again I'd get the converter. Or, if you're in it for the long
                    haul,
                    > get the electrical service upgrade.
                    >
                    > Joel
                    >
                    > Dependable Letterpress
                    > San Francisco
                    >
                    >
                    > mableylee wrote:
                    >
                    > >Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen
                    and 12x18
                    > C&P NS). Both
                    > >are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the
                    > printing company I
                    > >purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another
                    building with
                    > only single
                    > >phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines
                    running? (A few
                    > have
                    > >suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others
                    have
                    > advised replacing
                    > >the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would
                    greatly be
                    > appreciated!
                    > >Much thanks, Mable
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                  • Michael T. Metz
                    Hi Joel, Sorry about how that turned out. I think you should talk to the guy that set you up with the 2hp motor. It doesn t sound like he did his job. Does the
                    Message 9 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
                      Hi Joel,

                      Sorry about how that turned out. I think
                      you should talk to the guy that set you
                      up with the 2hp motor. It doesn't sound
                      like he did his job.

                      Does the motor bog down when you engage
                      the clutch? What are the other specs on
                      the motor? RPM, etc.

                      Mike



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
                      Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 4:58 PM
                      To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                      Michael T. Metz wrote:

                      >Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
                      >Folks have told me that the HP rating on
                      >a single phase motor won't pull what the
                      >same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
                      >motor?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a
                      press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing.
                      Maybe bigger motors require other kinds of monkeying around to make them
                      fit...

                      I saved my three-phase motor, and I'm looking forward to the day I can
                      put it back on.

                      Joel




                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Michael T. Metz
                      My Heidelberg parts book talks about the different motors to use with different electricity setups. The single current setup has a caveat. Granted this book
                      Message 10 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
                        My Heidelberg parts book talks about the different
                        motors to use with different electricity setups.
                        The single current setup has a caveat. Granted
                        this book was written in the 50s, and motor technology
                        has probably changed.

                        For Single-phase Alternating Current:

                        One single phase alternating current motor, 1.1kW=1.5 HP rated
                        output, 1400 to 1500 rpm. Drip proof. Standard base motor with
                        free shaft end. ...

                        Then it continues, and this might be your problem.

                        "This applies only to the repulsion motor with commutator.
                        Induction motors are not suitable, because of their inability to
                        start under load. The repulsion motor, on the other hand, has
                        a high starting torque; however, it has the characteristic of
                        racing (increasing the speed to a dangerous extent) when
                        started without load. Therefore, it is necessary to arrange a single-
                        phase switch which is attached to the bracket carrying the
                        sucker bar movement in such a way that if the machine is stopped
                        by means of the handle the curcuit is also broken."

                        I personally couldn't tell you the difference between a repulsion
                        and an induction motor, or know if there is a third kind out
                        there that would work better. The point of all this: I shouldn't
                        be giving advice on what to do. Do you hear that Mable?

                        Mike

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
                        Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 4:58 PM
                        To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                        Michael T. Metz wrote:

                        >Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
                        >Folks have told me that the HP rating on
                        >a single phase motor won't pull what the
                        >same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
                        >motor?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a
                        press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing.
                        Maybe bigger motors require other kinds of monkeying around to make them
                        fit...

                        I saved my three-phase motor, and I'm looking forward to the day I can
                        put it back on.

                        Joel




                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • Joel at D.L.
                        ... It s 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn t bog down or cause other
                        Message 11 of 21 , Nov 6, 2005
                          Michael T. Metz wrote:

                          >Does the motor bog down when you engage
                          >the clutch? What are the other specs on
                          >the motor? RPM, etc.
                          >
                          >

                          It's 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the
                          Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn't bog down
                          or cause other problems- it's only when running a heavy forme on a long
                          run at high speed that it pops the breaker. And even then, it's like
                          every 8 or 9 hundred it shuts off, unless I crank the speed down. Which
                          I do- I like it to keep running and anyway someone told me it's bad to
                          keep popping a breaker.

                          It's all on the level of minor annoyance, but as a believer in Doing It
                          Right I aspire to restoring the three-phase power. Now I feel like a
                          bit of a whiner; but in the great internet tradition of maximum
                          information, there is my experience with single phase.

                          Heidelberg may have accomodated the need to use single-phase power, but
                          I'm sure the machines were engineered with three-phase in mind. It's
                          standand, for industrial applications.

                          Joel
                        • chuck sumner
                          I recall a thread on the letpress list that may be useful and inexpensive https://listserv.unb.ca/cgi-bin/wa?
                          Message 12 of 21 , Nov 6, 2005
                            I recall a thread on the letpress list that may be useful and
                            inexpensive

                            https://listserv.unb.ca/cgi-bin/wa?
                            A2=ind0407&L=LETPRESS&P=R33002&D=0&H=0&I=-3&O=T&T=0

                            or: http://tinyurl.com/7jqmv

                            Good luck


                            On Nov 3, 2005, at 8:36 AM, mableylee wrote:

                            > Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen and
                            > 12x18 C&P NS). Both
                            > are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the
                            > printing company I
                            > purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another
                            > building with only single
                            > phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines
                            > running? (A few have
                            > suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others
                            > have advised replacing
                            > the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would
                            > greatly be appreciated!
                            > Much thanks, Mable
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
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                            > ~->
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
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                            >
                          • Fritz Klinke
                            If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary converter. We
                            Message 13 of 21 , Nov 7, 2005
                              If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on
                              the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary
                              converter. We consulted with our local electrician who is a master licensed
                              guy, and he suggested that we needed a new motor control switch or to change
                              the heater links in the control that trip the breaker. We never tripped the
                              main breaker in the electric panel that this press runs off. So, we just
                              eliminated the breaker in the motor starter switch and it has run well since
                              on many thousands of impressions. We couldn't figure if it had something to
                              do with the use of the converter, or something else. I don't think it is a
                              safety issue with the motor overheating because I am always present when the
                              press is running and the motor never seems to get that hot. I cleaned out
                              years of accumulated dust, lint, and crud inside the motor that was blocking
                              air flow, and it just hums along.

                              Fritz

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Joel at D.L." <dep.letterpress@...>
                              To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:37 AM
                              Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                              > Michael T. Metz wrote:
                              >
                              >>Does the motor bog down when you engage
                              >>the clutch? What are the other specs on
                              >>the motor? RPM, etc.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              > It's 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the
                              > Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn't bog down
                              > or cause other problems- it's only when running a heavy forme on a long
                              > run at high speed that it pops the breaker. And even then, it's like
                              > every 8 or 9 hundred it shuts off, unless I crank the speed down. Which
                              > I do- I like it to keep running and anyway someone told me it's bad to
                              > keep popping a breaker.
                              >
                              > It's all on the level of minor annoyance, but as a believer in Doing It
                              > Right I aspire to restoring the three-phase power. Now I feel like a
                              > bit of a whiner; but in the great internet tradition of maximum
                              > information, there is my experience with single phase.
                              >
                              > Heidelberg may have accomodated the need to use single-phase power, but
                              > I'm sure the machines were engineered with three-phase in mind. It's
                              > standand, for industrial applications.
                              >
                              > Joel
                              >
                            • Michael T. Metz
                              Bingo Fritz. I think you scored on that one. That s a $25 fix. ... From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Fritz
                              Message 14 of 21 , Nov 7, 2005
                                Bingo Fritz. I think you scored on that one.
                                That's a $25 fix.

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Fritz Klinke
                                Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:19 AM
                                To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                                If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on
                                the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary
                                converter. We consulted with our local electrician who is a master licensed
                                guy, and he suggested that we needed a new motor control switch or to change
                                the heater links in the control that trip the breaker. We never tripped the
                                main breaker in the electric panel that this press runs off. So, we just
                                eliminated the breaker in the motor starter switch and it has run well since
                                on many thousands of impressions. We couldn't figure if it had something to
                                do with the use of the converter, or something else. I don't think it is a
                                safety issue with the motor overheating because I am always present when the
                                press is running and the motor never seems to get that hot. I cleaned out
                                years of accumulated dust, lint, and crud inside the motor that was blocking
                                air flow, and it just hums along.

                                Fritz

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Joel at D.L." <dep.letterpress@...>
                                To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:37 AM
                                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                                > Michael T. Metz wrote:
                                >
                                >>Does the motor bog down when you engage
                                >>the clutch? What are the other specs on
                                >>the motor? RPM, etc.
                                >>
                                >>
                                >
                                > It's 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the
                                > Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn't bog down
                                > or cause other problems- it's only when running a heavy forme on a long
                                > run at high speed that it pops the breaker. And even then, it's like
                                > every 8 or 9 hundred it shuts off, unless I crank the speed down. Which
                                > I do- I like it to keep running and anyway someone told me it's bad to
                                > keep popping a breaker.
                                >
                                > It's all on the level of minor annoyance, but as a believer in Doing It
                                > Right I aspire to restoring the three-phase power. Now I feel like a
                                > bit of a whiner; but in the great internet tradition of maximum
                                > information, there is my experience with single phase.
                                >
                                > Heidelberg may have accomodated the need to use single-phase power, but
                                > I'm sure the machines were engineered with three-phase in mind. It's
                                > standand, for industrial applications.
                                >
                                > Joel
                                >






                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                              • Joel at D.L.
                                Hi Fritz- I never considered the breaker being the problem- maybe you re right. I am indeed referring to the breaker on the motor control switch. It came
                                Message 15 of 21 , Nov 7, 2005
                                  Hi Fritz-
                                  I never considered the breaker being the problem- maybe you're right. I
                                  am indeed referring to the breaker on the motor control switch. It came
                                  with the press and is not new. I've never tripped the main breaker in
                                  the electrical panel either. Thanks!

                                  Joel

                                  Fritz Klinke wrote:

                                  >If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on
                                  >the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary
                                  >converter.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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