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Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.

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  • Warren Gailbreath, Jr.
    I have been using a Phase-A-Matic Converter wired into a secondary motor which supplies temporary voltage on startup. It certainly had to be wired by an
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 3, 2005
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      I have been using a Phase-A-Matic Converter wired into
      a secondary motor which supplies temporary voltage on
      startup.

      It certainly had to be wired by an electrician and
      mine cost 250.00 for wiring and pahse converter but
      unfortunately the motors were about 300.00 ea.

      Each Vertical I have and my folder with a right angle
      run off this setup with the only exception being for
      the folder the secondary motor is a 5 H.P. The Miehle
      secondary motors are 3 H.P.

      Hope this helps.


      Warren Gailbreath,Jr.
      Southwest Finishing, Inc.
      Ft.Worth, Texas
    • mark baisi
      Hi, A year ago I had to buy a 3 phase converter for my Heidelberg GTO. I got a very small transitor unit from speedco for a mere $400.00 cdn. It s a small box
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
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        Hi,
        A year ago I had to buy a 3 phase converter for my Heidelberg GTO. I got a
        very small transitor unit from speedco for a mere $400.00 cdn. It's a small
        box that mounts on the wall, about 6 inches square. The conversion is done
        with transistors etc so the unit does not put out any noise or heat. I was
        doubtful about the unit when I first purchased it as I had only seen big
        mechanical converters more around the $2000 mark.
        It has worked flawlessly for a year, and has had many long hard shifts. The
        unit is programable as well so you can adjust the speed in which in comes up
        to power and how it shuts down. All original wiring and safeties remain
        intact.
        If and when I get another piece of three phase equipment I wouldn't
        hesitate to buy another one of these units.
        mark

        >From: "mableylee" <mableylee@...>
        >Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.
        >Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:36:33 -0000
        >
        >Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen and 12x18
        >C&P NS). Both
        >are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the
        >printing company I
        >purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another building with
        >only single
        >phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines running? (A few
        >have
        >suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others have
        >advised replacing
        >the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would greatly be
        >appreciated!
        >Much thanks, Mable
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Casey
        I m going through the same thing, i have a 3 phase motor on my Vandercook 32-28 and I need to make it a single phase. To have my box and a line run would be a
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
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          I'm going through the same thing, i have a 3 phase motor on my Vandercook 32-28 and I
          need to make it a single phase. To have my box and a line run would be a $1000 easy what
          I'm told, but I can buy the motor for $475. I'm buying the motor.

          ::
          Casey McGarr
          BarGarr Letterpress
        • Casey
          I m going through the same thing, i have a 3 phase motor on my Vandercook 32-28 and I need to make it a single phase. To have my box converted and a line run
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
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            I'm going through the same thing, i have a 3 phase motor on my Vandercook 32-28 and I
            need to make it a single phase. To have my box converted and a line run would be a $1000
            easy what I'm told, but I can buy the Single phase motor for $475, I'm buying the motor.

            ::
            Casey McGarr
            BarGarr Letterpress
          • mableylee
            Thank you for all the great suggestions and advice! It s nice to know I have a few options. Take care, Mable
            Message 5 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
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              Thank you for all the great suggestions and advice! It's nice to know
              I have a few options. Take care, Mable
            • Joel at D.L.
              I put a single-phase motor on a 10 x 15 windmill, but I find it doesn t have the power that the three-phase motors do. The speed runs considerably slower than
              Message 6 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
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                I put a single-phase motor on a 10 x 15 windmill, but I find it doesn't
                have the power that the three-phase motors do. The speed runs
                considerably slower than the figure on the speed control would indicate,
                and I find that it overheats when I run it too fast with a heavy forme,
                and pops the breaker built in to the on-off switch. So I just slow it
                down. It's only a problem on long runs with lots of printing area.

                I don't have any experience with phase converters, but if I were to do
                it again I'd get the converter. Or, if you're in it for the long haul,
                get the electrical service upgrade.

                Joel

                Dependable Letterpress
                San Francisco


                mableylee wrote:

                >Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen and 12x18 C&P NS). Both
                >are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the printing company I
                >purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another building with only single
                >phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines running? (A few have
                >suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others have advised replacing
                >the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would greatly be appreciated!
                >Much thanks, Mable
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Michael T. Metz
                Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor. Folks have told me that the HP rating on a single phase motor won t pull what the same rating on a 3ph. What HP is
                Message 7 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
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                  Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
                  Folks have told me that the HP rating on
                  a single phase motor won't pull what the
                  same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
                  motor?

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
                  Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:56 AM
                  To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                  I put a single-phase motor on a 10 x 15 windmill, but I find it doesn't
                  have the power that the three-phase motors do. The speed runs
                  considerably slower than the figure on the speed control would indicate,
                  and I find that it overheats when I run it too fast with a heavy forme,
                  and pops the breaker built in to the on-off switch. So I just slow it
                  down. It's only a problem on long runs with lots of printing area.

                  I don't have any experience with phase converters, but if I were to do
                  it again I'd get the converter. Or, if you're in it for the long haul,
                  get the electrical service upgrade.

                  Joel

                  Dependable Letterpress
                  San Francisco


                  mableylee wrote:

                  >Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen and 12x18
                  C&P NS). Both
                  >are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the
                  printing company I
                  >purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another building with
                  only single
                  >phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines running? (A few
                  have
                  >suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others have
                  advised replacing
                  >the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would greatly be
                  appreciated!
                  >Much thanks, Mable
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >




                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Joel at D.L.
                  ... The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing. Maybe bigger
                  Message 8 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
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                    Michael T. Metz wrote:

                    >Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
                    >Folks have told me that the HP rating on
                    >a single phase motor won't pull what the
                    >same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
                    >motor?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a
                    press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing.
                    Maybe bigger motors require other kinds of monkeying around to make them
                    fit...

                    I saved my three-phase motor, and I'm looking forward to the day I can
                    put it back on.

                    Joel
                  • mableylee
                    Hello Michael, The Heidelberg has 3hp, C&P has 2. ... doesn t ... indicate, ... forme, ... it ... do ... haul, ... and 12x18 ... building with ... running? (A
                    Message 9 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
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                      Hello Michael,

                      The Heidelberg has 3hp, C&P has 2.


                      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Michael T. Metz" <mtmetz@s...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
                      > Folks have told me that the HP rating on
                      > a single phase motor won't pull what the
                      > same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
                      > motor?
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
                      > Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:56 AM
                      > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.
                      >
                      >
                      > I put a single-phase motor on a 10 x 15 windmill, but I find it
                      doesn't
                      > have the power that the three-phase motors do. The speed runs
                      > considerably slower than the figure on the speed control would
                      indicate,
                      > and I find that it overheats when I run it too fast with a heavy
                      forme,
                      > and pops the breaker built in to the on-off switch. So I just slow
                      it
                      > down. It's only a problem on long runs with lots of printing area.
                      >
                      > I don't have any experience with phase converters, but if I were to
                      do
                      > it again I'd get the converter. Or, if you're in it for the long
                      haul,
                      > get the electrical service upgrade.
                      >
                      > Joel
                      >
                      > Dependable Letterpress
                      > San Francisco
                      >
                      >
                      > mableylee wrote:
                      >
                      > >Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen
                      and 12x18
                      > C&P NS). Both
                      > >are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the
                      > printing company I
                      > >purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another
                      building with
                      > only single
                      > >phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines
                      running? (A few
                      > have
                      > >suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others
                      have
                      > advised replacing
                      > >the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would
                      greatly be
                      > appreciated!
                      > >Much thanks, Mable
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                    • Michael T. Metz
                      Hi Joel, Sorry about how that turned out. I think you should talk to the guy that set you up with the 2hp motor. It doesn t sound like he did his job. Does the
                      Message 10 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
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                        Hi Joel,

                        Sorry about how that turned out. I think
                        you should talk to the guy that set you
                        up with the 2hp motor. It doesn't sound
                        like he did his job.

                        Does the motor bog down when you engage
                        the clutch? What are the other specs on
                        the motor? RPM, etc.

                        Mike



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
                        Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 4:58 PM
                        To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                        Michael T. Metz wrote:

                        >Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
                        >Folks have told me that the HP rating on
                        >a single phase motor won't pull what the
                        >same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
                        >motor?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a
                        press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing.
                        Maybe bigger motors require other kinds of monkeying around to make them
                        fit...

                        I saved my three-phase motor, and I'm looking forward to the day I can
                        put it back on.

                        Joel




                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • Michael T. Metz
                        My Heidelberg parts book talks about the different motors to use with different electricity setups. The single current setup has a caveat. Granted this book
                        Message 11 of 21 , Nov 4, 2005
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                          My Heidelberg parts book talks about the different
                          motors to use with different electricity setups.
                          The single current setup has a caveat. Granted
                          this book was written in the 50s, and motor technology
                          has probably changed.

                          For Single-phase Alternating Current:

                          One single phase alternating current motor, 1.1kW=1.5 HP rated
                          output, 1400 to 1500 rpm. Drip proof. Standard base motor with
                          free shaft end. ...

                          Then it continues, and this might be your problem.

                          "This applies only to the repulsion motor with commutator.
                          Induction motors are not suitable, because of their inability to
                          start under load. The repulsion motor, on the other hand, has
                          a high starting torque; however, it has the characteristic of
                          racing (increasing the speed to a dangerous extent) when
                          started without load. Therefore, it is necessary to arrange a single-
                          phase switch which is attached to the bracket carrying the
                          sucker bar movement in such a way that if the machine is stopped
                          by means of the handle the curcuit is also broken."

                          I personally couldn't tell you the difference between a repulsion
                          and an induction motor, or know if there is a third kind out
                          there that would work better. The point of all this: I shouldn't
                          be giving advice on what to do. Do you hear that Mable?

                          Mike

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                          [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Joel at D.L.
                          Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 4:58 PM
                          To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                          Michael T. Metz wrote:

                          >Or, a bigger (more hp) single phase motor.
                          >Folks have told me that the HP rating on
                          >a single phase motor won't pull what the
                          >same rating on a 3ph. What HP is your
                          >motor?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          The single phase motor is 2 hp, the three phase one was 1-1/2. I had a
                          press mechanic source it for me, and assume he knew what he was doing.
                          Maybe bigger motors require other kinds of monkeying around to make them
                          fit...

                          I saved my three-phase motor, and I'm looking forward to the day I can
                          put it back on.

                          Joel




                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • Joel at D.L.
                          ... It s 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn t bog down or cause other
                          Message 12 of 21 , Nov 6, 2005
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                            Michael T. Metz wrote:

                            >Does the motor bog down when you engage
                            >the clutch? What are the other specs on
                            >the motor? RPM, etc.
                            >
                            >

                            It's 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the
                            Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn't bog down
                            or cause other problems- it's only when running a heavy forme on a long
                            run at high speed that it pops the breaker. And even then, it's like
                            every 8 or 9 hundred it shuts off, unless I crank the speed down. Which
                            I do- I like it to keep running and anyway someone told me it's bad to
                            keep popping a breaker.

                            It's all on the level of minor annoyance, but as a believer in Doing It
                            Right I aspire to restoring the three-phase power. Now I feel like a
                            bit of a whiner; but in the great internet tradition of maximum
                            information, there is my experience with single phase.

                            Heidelberg may have accomodated the need to use single-phase power, but
                            I'm sure the machines were engineered with three-phase in mind. It's
                            standand, for industrial applications.

                            Joel
                          • chuck sumner
                            I recall a thread on the letpress list that may be useful and inexpensive https://listserv.unb.ca/cgi-bin/wa?
                            Message 13 of 21 , Nov 6, 2005
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                              I recall a thread on the letpress list that may be useful and
                              inexpensive

                              https://listserv.unb.ca/cgi-bin/wa?
                              A2=ind0407&L=LETPRESS&P=R33002&D=0&H=0&I=-3&O=T&T=0

                              or: http://tinyurl.com/7jqmv

                              Good luck


                              On Nov 3, 2005, at 8:36 AM, mableylee wrote:

                              > Hi, I've recently acquired two presses (12x18 Heidelberg platen and
                              > 12x18 C&P NS). Both
                              > are three phase powered and were hardwired into the building of the
                              > printing company I
                              > purchased them from . They will soon be moved into another
                              > building with only single
                              > phase power. Any suggestions on how to get these machines
                              > running? (A few have
                              > suggested investing in a costly Temco 3 phase converter, others
                              > have advised replacing
                              > the motors to single phase.) Any suggestions or advice would
                              > greatly be appreciated!
                              > Much thanks, Mable
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
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                              > ~->
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                              >
                            • Fritz Klinke
                              If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary converter. We
                              Message 14 of 21 , Nov 7, 2005
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                                If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on
                                the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary
                                converter. We consulted with our local electrician who is a master licensed
                                guy, and he suggested that we needed a new motor control switch or to change
                                the heater links in the control that trip the breaker. We never tripped the
                                main breaker in the electric panel that this press runs off. So, we just
                                eliminated the breaker in the motor starter switch and it has run well since
                                on many thousands of impressions. We couldn't figure if it had something to
                                do with the use of the converter, or something else. I don't think it is a
                                safety issue with the motor overheating because I am always present when the
                                press is running and the motor never seems to get that hot. I cleaned out
                                years of accumulated dust, lint, and crud inside the motor that was blocking
                                air flow, and it just hums along.

                                Fritz

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Joel at D.L." <dep.letterpress@...>
                                To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:37 AM
                                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                                > Michael T. Metz wrote:
                                >
                                >>Does the motor bog down when you engage
                                >>the clutch? What are the other specs on
                                >>the motor? RPM, etc.
                                >>
                                >>
                                >
                                > It's 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the
                                > Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn't bog down
                                > or cause other problems- it's only when running a heavy forme on a long
                                > run at high speed that it pops the breaker. And even then, it's like
                                > every 8 or 9 hundred it shuts off, unless I crank the speed down. Which
                                > I do- I like it to keep running and anyway someone told me it's bad to
                                > keep popping a breaker.
                                >
                                > It's all on the level of minor annoyance, but as a believer in Doing It
                                > Right I aspire to restoring the three-phase power. Now I feel like a
                                > bit of a whiner; but in the great internet tradition of maximum
                                > information, there is my experience with single phase.
                                >
                                > Heidelberg may have accomodated the need to use single-phase power, but
                                > I'm sure the machines were engineered with three-phase in mind. It's
                                > standand, for industrial applications.
                                >
                                > Joel
                                >
                              • Michael T. Metz
                                Bingo Fritz. I think you scored on that one. That s a $25 fix. ... From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Fritz
                                Message 15 of 21 , Nov 7, 2005
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                                  Bingo Fritz. I think you scored on that one.
                                  That's a $25 fix.

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                  [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Fritz Klinke
                                  Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:19 AM
                                  To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                                  If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on
                                  the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary
                                  converter. We consulted with our local electrician who is a master licensed
                                  guy, and he suggested that we needed a new motor control switch or to change
                                  the heater links in the control that trip the breaker. We never tripped the
                                  main breaker in the electric panel that this press runs off. So, we just
                                  eliminated the breaker in the motor starter switch and it has run well since
                                  on many thousands of impressions. We couldn't figure if it had something to
                                  do with the use of the converter, or something else. I don't think it is a
                                  safety issue with the motor overheating because I am always present when the
                                  press is running and the motor never seems to get that hot. I cleaned out
                                  years of accumulated dust, lint, and crud inside the motor that was blocking
                                  air flow, and it just hums along.

                                  Fritz

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Joel at D.L." <dep.letterpress@...>
                                  To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:37 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] 3 phase to single, help please.


                                  > Michael T. Metz wrote:
                                  >
                                  >>Does the motor bog down when you engage
                                  >>the clutch? What are the other specs on
                                  >>the motor? RPM, etc.
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  > It's 1750 RPM, as I recall. The other specs meet or exceed the
                                  > Heidelberg requirements as posted earlier. The motor doesn't bog down
                                  > or cause other problems- it's only when running a heavy forme on a long
                                  > run at high speed that it pops the breaker. And even then, it's like
                                  > every 8 or 9 hundred it shuts off, unless I crank the speed down. Which
                                  > I do- I like it to keep running and anyway someone told me it's bad to
                                  > keep popping a breaker.
                                  >
                                  > It's all on the level of minor annoyance, but as a believer in Doing It
                                  > Right I aspire to restoring the three-phase power. Now I feel like a
                                  > bit of a whiner; but in the great internet tradition of maximum
                                  > information, there is my experience with single phase.
                                  >
                                  > Heidelberg may have accomodated the need to use single-phase power, but
                                  > I'm sure the machines were engineered with three-phase in mind. It's
                                  > standand, for industrial applications.
                                  >
                                  > Joel
                                  >






                                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                                • Joel at D.L.
                                  Hi Fritz- I never considered the breaker being the problem- maybe you re right. I am indeed referring to the breaker on the motor control switch. It came
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Nov 7, 2005
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                                    Hi Fritz-
                                    I never considered the breaker being the problem- maybe you're right. I
                                    am indeed referring to the breaker on the motor control switch. It came
                                    with the press and is not new. I've never tripped the main breaker in
                                    the electrical panel either. Thanks!

                                    Joel

                                    Fritz Klinke wrote:

                                    >If you are referring to the breaker on the motor control switch that is on
                                    >the press, then the same thing happened with our press using a rotary
                                    >converter.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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