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Re: Post Exposures

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  • John G. Henry
    I notice that (in the details posted) the postexposures are exceedingly longer than the imaging exposure. Why is this? When setting up my exposure/washout
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 2, 2005
      I notice that (in the details posted) the postexposures are
      exceedingly longer than the imaging exposure. Why is this? When
      setting up my exposure/washout system, I got the impression that the
      post exposure should be about half the length of the imaging exposure.

      Can anyone shed some light on this (pardon the pun).

      John H.
    • Gerald Lange
      John Most of the information sheets provided with plates indicate a longer postexposure than initial exposure. I d think you would at least need as long a
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 2, 2005
        John

        Most of the information sheets provided with plates indicate a longer
        postexposure than initial exposure. I'd think you would at least need
        as long a postexposure as initial exposure as the postexposure is
        reponsible for the polymerization of the subsurface area. This would
        be necessary to ensure stability.

        Most of the sheets that I have read indicate a postexposure to double
        that of the initial exposure.

        There is also some technical information that indicates that longer
        postexposure helps to defer ozone attack though I'm not sure what the
        consequences of too much postexposure would be as there is a certain
        point where polymerization is complete (the molecular growth and
        linkage has maxed out) and the effect of further ultraviolet exposure
        is minimal. It would sort of have to be or the plates would be
        continually changing while on press.

        But then, I'm only on my second cup of coffee. . .

        Gerald


        > I notice that (in the details posted) the postexposures are
        > exceedingly longer than the imaging exposure. Why is this? When
        > setting up my exposure/washout system, I got the impression that the
        > post exposure should be about half the length of the imaging exposure.
        >
        > Can anyone shed some light on this (pardon the pun).
        >
        > John H.
      • elumdesigns
        I am a believer that we are all in this together, regardless of competition and any information that people can learn from each other is only beneficial. I
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 3, 2005
          I am a believer that we are all in this together, regardless of
          competition and any information that people can learn from each other
          is only beneficial. I have gone to competitors in my industry when i
          have had issues and problems that i needed help solving. We a very
          young company so learning from mistakes and from other was vital. My
          peers (competition) have helped me tremendously and it has been
          invaluable.


          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
          > Thanks Brad
          >
          > This is great. Rather than lose this info in the archives I thought
          > I'd set up a table in the Database section for this. I've already
          > added my entry. Hope you will do the same with your information. Its
          > relatively painless and easy to do.
          >
          > I think it really useful that members contribute to the reference
          > resources of the list: Files, Photos, Links, Database. We've got over
          > 790 members now and have been around for over four years but so far
          > there has been very little willingness on the part of members to share
          > vital information. Somewhat unfortunate given the potential.
          >
          > Gerald
          >
          > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
          wrote:
          > > I am using the Orbital X as well:
          > > Rigilon MX II 145
          > > Exposure 1 min 20 sec
          > > 4.5 to 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
          > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
          > > 10 minute postexposure
          > >
          > > Rigilon HX 145
          > > Exposure 2 - 3 minutes depending on application and how much shoulder
          > > we need
          > > 4 minute washout @ 90 degrees
          > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
          > > 15 minute postexposure
          > >
          > > Miraclon MS 145
          > > Exposure 1 min 45 sec
          > > 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
          > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
          > > 10 minute postexposure
          > >
          > > BASF WS152
          > > Exposure 2 min 30 sec
          > > 10 minute washout @ 90 degrees
          > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
          > > 15 minute postexposure
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...>
          > wrote:
          > > > Brad
          > > >
          > > > What is the sequence you use for the Rigilon? I think it would be
          > > > useful for folks to provide their "successful" sequences here. Of
          > > > course they would need to be very specific to be of any use to
          others:
          > > > Machine. Manufacturer/Brand/Formulation Code. Exposure time, washout
          > > > time, drying time, post-exposure time. Purpose. Even sources
          would be
          > > > good.
          > > >
          > > > For instance (with my A&V Orbital machine) running Toyobo Printight
          > > > 152 GRs (steel-backed), which I buy from A&V, I have a generic
          > > > sequence for deep impression as 6 minutes exposure, 5 minutes
          washout
          > > > (90 degrees F), 15 minutes drying time (150 degrees F) and 12
          minutes
          > > > post-exposure. I modify this a bit per client dependent upon their
          > > > intended use and practices.
          > > >
          > > > Gerald
        • elumdesigns
          ... assist ... it work. ... with. ... in the ... some ... on the ... image with ... But we ... - by the ... someone is ... I agree as well however we are in a
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 3, 2005
            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Mark Bauder
            <sonomaprinters@a...> wrote:
            > on 8/31/05 11:14 PM, Gerald Lange at bieler@w... wrote:
            >
            > > Brad
            > >
            > > The Toyobos are fairly hard as far as letterpress photopolymer plates
            > > go. But hardness rating per se is not a guarantee of "solidity." More
            > > like the hardness rating of an inking roller where it is used as an
            > > indicator of transfer qualities.
            > >
            > > You mention "our style of printing." I'm assuming deep impression? I
            > > think you are going to experience splay with probably any photopolymer
            > > plate under these conditions. Though I am not experienced with the
            > > Rigilon. Photopolymer plates aren't really designed for this. And
            > > thicker plates are going to splay more than thinner plates.
            > >
            > > I'd suggest using traditional copper engravings on a patent or
            > > magnesium base for really deep impression. Most of the suppliers
            > > accept computer files via email these days. I know Owosso does.
            > > Copper is a bit more expensive but likely worth it as they will give
            > > you what you want, which photopolymer likely cannot.
            > >
            > > Gerald
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
            > > wrote:
            > >> I have been processing plates, testing and using the above mentioned
            > >> polymers for the past 8 months. We are looking for a polymer that is
            > >> hard and one that will hold the cleanest type/impression.
            > >>
            > >> We have found that the Printight is a very soft polymer compared to
            > >> the rest and it does not hold up to our style of printing. The type
            > >> just smashes after a few impressions. Has anyone else had this
            > >> problem? I even went as far as to have the A&V rep come down to
            assist
            > >> us with exposing the plates to see if we were doing anything wrong.
            > >> He was surprised at what was happening. Has anyone experienced this?
            > >>
            > >> The BASF polymer by far had the cleanest impression and looked the
            > >> best but the washout smelled real bad, the washout time was extremely
            > >> long and the parent size plate was not a good size for us and we were
            > >> wasting a lot of polymer. This plate was a bit harder than the
            > >> Printight but we still had to back off on the preassure to make
            it work.
            > >>
            > >> The Rigilon seemed to be the plates that we had the best results
            with.
            > >> Short exposure times, fast washout, holds type very well, clean
            > >> impressions, great shoulder on the type, excellent ink release
            > >> properties and its relatively hard and stable.
            > >>
            > >> Can anyone recommend something that might work for us that they have
            > >> had good results with? Should I stop looking and just use the
            > >> Rigilon? I have learned a lot about photopolymer and processing
            in the
            > >> past 8 months but I feel that I have reached a point where I need
            some
            > >> expert advice on which polymer will work best. Hard and clean....
            > >>
            > >> Thanks for reading.
            > >> Brad
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > Hi Gerald,
            >
            > I agree with you. Copper is by far the better way to go. The walls
            on the
            > letters can be made almost vertical and will make a crisp, clean
            image with
            > a deep impression. The old letterpressman would be rolling over in their
            > graves if they saw what is now the "in vogue" letterpress printing.
            But we
            > can offer something unique that can't be reproduced with a computer
            - by the
            > way, I have a couple of magnetic bases that were used twice if
            someone is
            > interested. E-mail me direct.
            >
            > Cheers,
            > Mark Bauder
            > Sonoma Printers


            I agree as well however we are in a very high production situation and
            we are making anywhere fom 75 - 100 plates a week and during our busy
            season, this number can double. We were using Owosso and spending more
            than $700.00 a month in UPS fees alone.
          • elumdesigns
            I double, sometimes triple the pre-exposure time. It tends to harden the plates more.
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 3, 2005
              I double, sometimes triple the pre-exposure time. It tends to harden
              the plates more.

              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "John G. Henry" <JohnH@i...> wrote:
              > I notice that (in the details posted) the postexposures are
              > exceedingly longer than the imaging exposure. Why is this? When
              > setting up my exposure/washout system, I got the impression that the
              > post exposure should be about half the length of the imaging exposure.
              >
              > Can anyone shed some light on this (pardon the pun).
              >
              > John H.
            • elumdesigns
              I dont see the table that you created on polymer processing times.... ... would be ... washout ... minutes
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 8, 2005
                I dont see the table that you created on polymer processing times....

                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
                > Thanks Brad
                >
                > This is great. Rather than lose this info in the archives I thought
                > I'd set up a table in the Database section for this. I've already
                > added my entry. Hope you will do the same with your information. Its
                > relatively painless and easy to do.
                >
                > I think it really useful that members contribute to the reference
                > resources of the list: Files, Photos, Links, Database. We've got over
                > 790 members now and have been around for over four years but so far
                > there has been very little willingness on the part of members to share
                > vital information. Somewhat unfortunate given the potential.
                >
                > Gerald
                >
                > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
                wrote:
                > > I am using the Orbital X as well:
                > > Rigilon MX II 145
                > > Exposure 1 min 20 sec
                > > 4.5 to 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                > > 10 minute postexposure
                > >
                > > Rigilon HX 145
                > > Exposure 2 - 3 minutes depending on application and how much shoulder
                > > we need
                > > 4 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                > > 15 minute postexposure
                > >
                > > Miraclon MS 145
                > > Exposure 1 min 45 sec
                > > 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                > > 10 minute postexposure
                > >
                > > BASF WS152
                > > Exposure 2 min 30 sec
                > > 10 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                > > 15 minute postexposure
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...>
                > wrote:
                > > > Brad
                > > >
                > > > What is the sequence you use for the Rigilon? I think it would be
                > > > useful for folks to provide their "successful" sequences here. Of
                > > > course they would need to be very specific to be of any use to
                others:
                > > > Machine. Manufacturer/Brand/Formulation Code. Exposure time, washout
                > > > time, drying time, post-exposure time. Purpose. Even sources
                would be
                > > > good.
                > > >
                > > > For instance (with my A&V Orbital machine) running Toyobo Printight
                > > > 152 GRs (steel-backed), which I buy from A&V, I have a generic
                > > > sequence for deep impression as 6 minutes exposure, 5 minutes
                washout
                > > > (90 degrees F), 15 minutes drying time (150 degrees F) and 12
                minutes
                > > > post-exposure. I modify this a bit per client dependent upon their
                > > > intended use and practices.
                > > >
                > > > Gerald
              • Gerald Lange
                Brad Sorry, a couple of the database tables were removed during routine housekeeping. It is now back in place. Gerald ... [Non-text portions of this message
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 8, 2005
                  Brad

                  Sorry, a couple of the database tables were removed during routine
                  housekeeping. It is now back in place.

                  Gerald

                  elumdesigns wrote:

                  >I dont see the table that you created on polymer processing times....
                  >
                  >--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >>Thanks Brad
                  >>
                  >>This is great. Rather than lose this info in the archives I thought
                  >>I'd set up a table in the Database section for this. I've already
                  >>added my entry. Hope you will do the same with your information. Its
                  >>relatively painless and easy to do.
                  >>
                  >>I think it really useful that members contribute to the reference
                  >>resources of the list: Files, Photos, Links, Database. We've got over
                  >>790 members now and have been around for over four years but so far
                  >>there has been very little willingness on the part of members to share
                  >>vital information. Somewhat unfortunate given the potential.
                  >>
                  >>Gerald
                  >>
                  >>--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >>>I am using the Orbital X as well:
                  >>>Rigilon MX II 145
                  >>>Exposure 1 min 20 sec
                  >>>4.5 to 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                  >>>10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                  >>>10 minute postexposure
                  >>>
                  >>>Rigilon HX 145
                  >>>Exposure 2 - 3 minutes depending on application and how much shoulder
                  >>>we need
                  >>>4 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                  >>>10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                  >>>15 minute postexposure
                  >>>
                  >>>Miraclon MS 145
                  >>>Exposure 1 min 45 sec
                  >>>5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                  >>>10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                  >>>10 minute postexposure
                  >>>
                  >>>BASF WS152
                  >>>Exposure 2 min 30 sec
                  >>>10 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                  >>>10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                  >>>15 minute postexposure
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Chad Pastotnik
                  I m looking for a chase for a tabletop lever Hohner press with the following specs: outside dimensions - 11 3/8 x 7+ inches (at least this is the size of the
                  Message 8 of 19 , Oct 25, 2005
                    I'm looking for a chase for a tabletop lever Hohner press with the
                    following specs:

                    outside dimensions - 11 3/8 x 7+ inches (at least this is the size of
                    the bed)
                    inside dimensions - 10 x 6 1/2 inches (according to old American
                    Printing Equip. & Supply catalogs)

                    C&P Pilot chases fit inside the bed between the rails but seem just a
                    little to tall. The chase for this particular Hohner (don't know about
                    others) requires a recessed area in the outside of the frame to accept
                    "ears" that protrude 1/8" from the bed frame and rails as shown in this
                    crude illustration where the left margin of the page is the bed of the
                    press:
                    /]
                    / ] 1 1/16"
                    / ]
                    1/2" [__]

                    5/8"

                    If anyone can help me out here I'd greatly appreciate it.

                    Chad

                    _____________________________

                    Chad Pastotnik
                    Deep Wood Press 231.587.0506
                    www.deepwoodpress.com
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