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Re: Toyoba Printight 152 / Rigilon MX II 145 / BASF WS 152

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  • Gerald Lange
    Brad The Toyobos are fairly hard as far as letterpress photopolymer plates go. But hardness rating per se is not a guarantee of solidity. More like the
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
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      Brad

      The Toyobos are fairly hard as far as letterpress photopolymer plates
      go. But hardness rating per se is not a guarantee of "solidity." More
      like the hardness rating of an inking roller where it is used as an
      indicator of transfer qualities.

      You mention "our style of printing." I'm assuming deep impression? I
      think you are going to experience splay with probably any photopolymer
      plate under these conditions. Though I am not experienced with the
      Rigilon. Photopolymer plates aren't really designed for this. And
      thicker plates are going to splay more than thinner plates.

      I'd suggest using traditional copper engravings on a patent or
      magnesium base for really deep impression. Most of the suppliers
      accept computer files via email these days. I know Owosso does.
      Copper is a bit more expensive but likely worth it as they will give
      you what you want, which photopolymer likely cannot.

      Gerald


      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
      wrote:
      > I have been processing plates, testing and using the above mentioned
      > polymers for the past 8 months. We are looking for a polymer that is
      > hard and one that will hold the cleanest type/impression.
      >
      > We have found that the Printight is a very soft polymer compared to
      > the rest and it does not hold up to our style of printing. The type
      > just smashes after a few impressions. Has anyone else had this
      > problem? I even went as far as to have the A&V rep come down to assist
      > us with exposing the plates to see if we were doing anything wrong.
      > He was surprised at what was happening. Has anyone experienced this?
      >
      > The BASF polymer by far had the cleanest impression and looked the
      > best but the washout smelled real bad, the washout time was extremely
      > long and the parent size plate was not a good size for us and we were
      > wasting a lot of polymer. This plate was a bit harder than the
      > Printight but we still had to back off on the preassure to make it work.
      >
      > The Rigilon seemed to be the plates that we had the best results with.
      > Short exposure times, fast washout, holds type very well, clean
      > impressions, great shoulder on the type, excellent ink release
      > properties and its relatively hard and stable.
      >
      > Can anyone recommend something that might work for us that they have
      > had good results with? Should I stop looking and just use the
      > Rigilon? I have learned a lot about photopolymer and processing in the
      > past 8 months but I feel that I have reached a point where I need some
      > expert advice on which polymer will work best. Hard and clean....
      >
      > Thanks for reading.
      > Brad
    • elumdesigns
      We have used Owosso for our magnesium plates. We bought a processing machine from A&V in order to pull the plate process in-house. We output plates everyday
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
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        We have used Owosso for our magnesium plates. We bought a processing
        machine from A&V in order to pull the plate process in-house. We
        output plates everyday and its saving us a tremendous amount of money
        as well as the fact that we now have controll over everything we do
        with the exception of film.

        Which Toyoba product would you recommend? Yes, we are going for a
        deep impression and some of or invitations and stationery have a lot
        of heavy coverage.

        I believe that the Rigilon is a moulding plate, this is the reason why
        its harder and isnt crushing.

        With the Printight and some other products we found that we were
        losing some of the dots above the "i" and smaller serifs that we use
        in our designs. It seemed that the font wouldnt "bounce back" after
        the impression. But, I might have been using the wrong material, still
        not sure.

        Brad

        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
        > Brad
        >
        > The Toyobos are fairly hard as far as letterpress photopolymer plates
        > go. But hardness rating per se is not a guarantee of "solidity." More
        > like the hardness rating of an inking roller where it is used as an
        > indicator of transfer qualities.
        >
        > You mention "our style of printing." I'm assuming deep impression? I
        > think you are going to experience splay with probably any photopolymer
        > plate under these conditions. Though I am not experienced with the
        > Rigilon. Photopolymer plates aren't really designed for this. And
        > thicker plates are going to splay more than thinner plates.
        >
        > I'd suggest using traditional copper engravings on a patent or
        > magnesium base for really deep impression. Most of the suppliers
        > accept computer files via email these days. I know Owosso does.
        > Copper is a bit more expensive but likely worth it as they will give
        > you what you want, which photopolymer likely cannot.
        >
        > Gerald
        >
        >
        > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
        > wrote:
        > > I have been processing plates, testing and using the above mentioned
        > > polymers for the past 8 months. We are looking for a polymer that is
        > > hard and one that will hold the cleanest type/impression.
        > >
        > > We have found that the Printight is a very soft polymer compared to
        > > the rest and it does not hold up to our style of printing. The type
        > > just smashes after a few impressions. Has anyone else had this
        > > problem? I even went as far as to have the A&V rep come down to assist
        > > us with exposing the plates to see if we were doing anything wrong.
        > > He was surprised at what was happening. Has anyone experienced this?
        > >
        > > The BASF polymer by far had the cleanest impression and looked the
        > > best but the washout smelled real bad, the washout time was extremely
        > > long and the parent size plate was not a good size for us and we were
        > > wasting a lot of polymer. This plate was a bit harder than the
        > > Printight but we still had to back off on the preassure to make it
        work.
        > >
        > > The Rigilon seemed to be the plates that we had the best results with.
        > > Short exposure times, fast washout, holds type very well, clean
        > > impressions, great shoulder on the type, excellent ink release
        > > properties and its relatively hard and stable.
        > >
        > > Can anyone recommend something that might work for us that they have
        > > had good results with? Should I stop looking and just use the
        > > Rigilon? I have learned a lot about photopolymer and processing in the
        > > past 8 months but I feel that I have reached a point where I need some
        > > expert advice on which polymer will work best. Hard and clean....
        > >
        > > Thanks for reading.
        > > Brad
      • Scott Rubel
        I do not have experience with Toyoba or Printight, but in general, for very heavy impressions, I have done well with polymer. It certainly stands up much
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
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          I do not have experience with Toyoba or Printight, but in general, for
          very heavy impressions, I have done well with polymer. It certainly
          stands up much longer than does lead type to the demands of the Martha
          Stewart Heavy Impression Generation.

          I hope to see a lot more feedback from Toyoba users.

          --Scott

          elumdesigns wrote:
          > We have used Owosso for our magnesium plates. We bought a processing
          > machine from A&V in order to pull the plate process in-house. We
          > output plates everyday and its saving us a tremendous amount of money
          > as well as the fact that we now have controll over everything we do
          > with the exception of film.
          >
          > Which Toyoba product would you recommend? Yes, we are going for a
          > deep impression and some of or invitations and stationery have a lot
          > of heavy coverage.
          >
          > I believe that the Rigilon is a moulding plate, this is the reason why
          > its harder and isnt crushing.
          >
          > With the Printight and some other products we found that we were
          > losing some of the dots above the "i" and smaller serifs that we use
          > in our designs. It seemed that the font wouldnt "bounce back" after
          > the impression. But, I might have been using the wrong material, still
          > not sure.
          >
          > Brad
        • Gerald Lange
          Brad If the Rigilon plates are working I d stick with them. I think that most manufacturers have plates formulated for moulding though. I suspose its a matter
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
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            Brad

            If the Rigilon plates are working I'd stick with them. I think that most
            manufacturers have plates formulated for moulding though. I suspose its
            a matter of finding the correct formulation. Its likely also a matter of
            correct exposure and washout time sequences. Sounds like you have it
            right for the Rigilon.

            I remember Regis telling me a long while back that suddenly his
            Printights were disintegrating for some odd reason and so he switched to
            another brand. Don't know if he ever discovered the reason for that.
            I've not had a problem with Toyobo thus far, and more and more of my
            client base is going deep impression. I suspect its a matter of finding
            the sequence that works. Bit of Voodoo to it I'm afraid.

            Gerald

            elumdesigns wrote:

            >We have used Owosso for our magnesium plates. We bought a processing
            >machine from A&V in order to pull the plate process in-house. We
            >output plates everyday and its saving us a tremendous amount of money
            >as well as the fact that we now have controll over everything we do
            >with the exception of film.
            >
            >Which Toyoba product would you recommend? Yes, we are going for a
            >deep impression and some of or invitations and stationery have a lot
            >of heavy coverage.
            >
            >I believe that the Rigilon is a moulding plate, this is the reason why
            >its harder and isnt crushing.
            >
            >With the Printight and some other products we found that we were
            >losing some of the dots above the "i" and smaller serifs that we use
            >in our designs. It seemed that the font wouldnt "bounce back" after
            >the impression. But, I might have been using the wrong material, still
            >not sure.
            >
            >Brad
            >
            >--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >>Brad
            >>
            >>The Toyobos are fairly hard as far as letterpress photopolymer plates
            >>go. But hardness rating per se is not a guarantee of "solidity." More
            >>like the hardness rating of an inking roller where it is used as an
            >>indicator of transfer qualities.
            >>
            >>You mention "our style of printing." I'm assuming deep impression? I
            >>think you are going to experience splay with probably any photopolymer
            >>plate under these conditions. Though I am not experienced with the
            >>Rigilon. Photopolymer plates aren't really designed for this. And
            >>thicker plates are going to splay more than thinner plates.
            >>
            >>I'd suggest using traditional copper engravings on a patent or
            >>magnesium base for really deep impression. Most of the suppliers
            >>accept computer files via email these days. I know Owosso does.
            >>Copper is a bit more expensive but likely worth it as they will give
            >>you what you want, which photopolymer likely cannot.
            >>
            >>Gerald
            >>
            >>
            >> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
            >>wrote:
            >>
            >>
            >>>I have been processing plates, testing and using the above mentioned
            >>>polymers for the past 8 months. We are looking for a polymer that is
            >>>hard and one that will hold the cleanest type/impression.
            >>>
            >>>We have found that the Printight is a very soft polymer compared to
            >>>the rest and it does not hold up to our style of printing. The type
            >>>just smashes after a few impressions. Has anyone else had this
            >>>problem? I even went as far as to have the A&V rep come down to assist
            >>>us with exposing the plates to see if we were doing anything wrong.
            >>>He was surprised at what was happening. Has anyone experienced this?
            >>>
            >>>The BASF polymer by far had the cleanest impression and looked the
            >>>best but the washout smelled real bad, the washout time was extremely
            >>>long and the parent size plate was not a good size for us and we were
            >>>wasting a lot of polymer. This plate was a bit harder than the
            >>>Printight but we still had to back off on the preassure to make it
            >>>
            >>>
            >work.
            >
            >
            >>>The Rigilon seemed to be the plates that we had the best results with.
            >>>Short exposure times, fast washout, holds type very well, clean
            >>>impressions, great shoulder on the type, excellent ink release
            >>>properties and its relatively hard and stable.
            >>>
            >>>Can anyone recommend something that might work for us that they have
            >>>had good results with? Should I stop looking and just use the
            >>>Rigilon? I have learned a lot about photopolymer and processing in the
            >>>past 8 months but I feel that I have reached a point where I need some
            >>>expert advice on which polymer will work best. Hard and clean....
            >>>
            >>>Thanks for reading.
            >>>Brad
            >>>
            >>>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good!
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            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Gerald Lange
            Brad What is the sequence you use for the Rigilon? I think it would be useful for folks to provide their successful sequences here. Of course they would need
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
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              Brad

              What is the sequence you use for the Rigilon? I think it would be
              useful for folks to provide their "successful" sequences here. Of
              course they would need to be very specific to be of any use to others:
              Machine. Manufacturer/Brand/Formulation Code. Exposure time, washout
              time, drying time, post-exposure time. Purpose. Even sources would be
              good.

              For instance (with my A&V Orbital machine) running Toyobo Printight
              152 GRs (steel-backed), which I buy from A&V, I have a generic
              sequence for deep impression as 6 minutes exposure, 5 minutes washout
              (90 degrees F), 15 minutes drying time (150 degrees F) and 12 minutes
              post-exposure. I modify this a bit per client dependent upon their
              intended use and practices.

              Gerald
            • elumdesigns
              Gerald, Which Toyoba are you using. I want to call and get some test sheets from them. Thanks for the info. ... most ... matter of ... switched to ... assist
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
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                Gerald, Which Toyoba are you using. I want to call and get some test
                sheets from them.

                Thanks for the info.

                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Gerald Lange <bieler@w...> wrote:
                > Brad
                >
                > If the Rigilon plates are working I'd stick with them. I think that
                most
                > manufacturers have plates formulated for moulding though. I suspose its
                > a matter of finding the correct formulation. Its likely also a
                matter of
                > correct exposure and washout time sequences. Sounds like you have it
                > right for the Rigilon.
                >
                > I remember Regis telling me a long while back that suddenly his
                > Printights were disintegrating for some odd reason and so he
                switched to
                > another brand. Don't know if he ever discovered the reason for that.
                > I've not had a problem with Toyobo thus far, and more and more of my
                > client base is going deep impression. I suspect its a matter of finding
                > the sequence that works. Bit of Voodoo to it I'm afraid.
                >
                > Gerald
                >
                > elumdesigns wrote:
                >
                > >We have used Owosso for our magnesium plates. We bought a processing
                > >machine from A&V in order to pull the plate process in-house. We
                > >output plates everyday and its saving us a tremendous amount of money
                > >as well as the fact that we now have controll over everything we do
                > >with the exception of film.
                > >
                > >Which Toyoba product would you recommend? Yes, we are going for a
                > >deep impression and some of or invitations and stationery have a lot
                > >of heavy coverage.
                > >
                > >I believe that the Rigilon is a moulding plate, this is the reason why
                > >its harder and isnt crushing.
                > >
                > >With the Printight and some other products we found that we were
                > >losing some of the dots above the "i" and smaller serifs that we use
                > >in our designs. It seemed that the font wouldnt "bounce back" after
                > >the impression. But, I might have been using the wrong material, still
                > >not sure.
                > >
                > >Brad
                > >
                > >--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...>
                wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >>Brad
                > >>
                > >>The Toyobos are fairly hard as far as letterpress photopolymer plates
                > >>go. But hardness rating per se is not a guarantee of "solidity." More
                > >>like the hardness rating of an inking roller where it is used as an
                > >>indicator of transfer qualities.
                > >>
                > >>You mention "our style of printing." I'm assuming deep impression? I
                > >>think you are going to experience splay with probably any photopolymer
                > >>plate under these conditions. Though I am not experienced with the
                > >>Rigilon. Photopolymer plates aren't really designed for this. And
                > >>thicker plates are going to splay more than thinner plates.
                > >>
                > >>I'd suggest using traditional copper engravings on a patent or
                > >>magnesium base for really deep impression. Most of the suppliers
                > >>accept computer files via email these days. I know Owosso does.
                > >>Copper is a bit more expensive but likely worth it as they will give
                > >>you what you want, which photopolymer likely cannot.
                > >>
                > >>Gerald
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
                > >>wrote:
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>>I have been processing plates, testing and using the above mentioned
                > >>>polymers for the past 8 months. We are looking for a polymer that is
                > >>>hard and one that will hold the cleanest type/impression.
                > >>>
                > >>>We have found that the Printight is a very soft polymer compared to
                > >>>the rest and it does not hold up to our style of printing. The type
                > >>>just smashes after a few impressions. Has anyone else had this
                > >>>problem? I even went as far as to have the A&V rep come down to
                assist
                > >>>us with exposing the plates to see if we were doing anything wrong.
                > >>>He was surprised at what was happening. Has anyone experienced
                this?
                > >>>
                > >>>The BASF polymer by far had the cleanest impression and looked the
                > >>>best but the washout smelled real bad, the washout time was extremely
                > >>>long and the parent size plate was not a good size for us and we were
                > >>>wasting a lot of polymer. This plate was a bit harder than the
                > >>>Printight but we still had to back off on the preassure to make it
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >work.
                > >
                > >
                > >>>The Rigilon seemed to be the plates that we had the best results
                with.
                > >>>Short exposure times, fast washout, holds type very well, clean
                > >>>impressions, great shoulder on the type, excellent ink release
                > >>>properties and its relatively hard and stable.
                > >>>
                > >>>Can anyone recommend something that might work for us that they have
                > >>>had good results with? Should I stop looking and just use the
                > >>>Rigilon? I have learned a lot about photopolymer and processing
                in the
                > >>>past 8 months but I feel that I have reached a point where I need
                some
                > >>>expert advice on which polymer will work best. Hard and clean....
                > >>>
                > >>>Thanks for reading.
                > >>>Brad
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                --------------------~--> Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive
                today at Network for Good!
                > >http://us.click.yahoo.com/FXrMlA/dnQLAA/Zx0JAA/mFXtlB/TM
                >
                >--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • elumdesigns
                I am using the Orbital X as well: Rigilon MX II 145 Exposure 1 min 20 sec 4.5 to 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
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                  I am using the Orbital X as well:
                  Rigilon MX II 145
                  Exposure 1 min 20 sec
                  4.5 to 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                  10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                  10 minute postexposure

                  Rigilon HX 145
                  Exposure 2 - 3 minutes depending on application and how much shoulder
                  we need
                  4 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                  10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                  15 minute postexposure

                  Miraclon MS 145
                  Exposure 1 min 45 sec
                  5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                  10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                  10 minute postexposure

                  BASF WS152
                  Exposure 2 min 30 sec
                  10 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                  10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                  15 minute postexposure




                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
                  > Brad
                  >
                  > What is the sequence you use for the Rigilon? I think it would be
                  > useful for folks to provide their "successful" sequences here. Of
                  > course they would need to be very specific to be of any use to others:
                  > Machine. Manufacturer/Brand/Formulation Code. Exposure time, washout
                  > time, drying time, post-exposure time. Purpose. Even sources would be
                  > good.
                  >
                  > For instance (with my A&V Orbital machine) running Toyobo Printight
                  > 152 GRs (steel-backed), which I buy from A&V, I have a generic
                  > sequence for deep impression as 6 minutes exposure, 5 minutes washout
                  > (90 degrees F), 15 minutes drying time (150 degrees F) and 12 minutes
                  > post-exposure. I modify this a bit per client dependent upon their
                  > intended use and practices.
                  >
                  > Gerald
                • Gerald Lange
                  Thanks Brad This is great. Rather than lose this info in the archives I thought I d set up a table in the Database section for this. I ve already added my
                  Message 8 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
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                    Thanks Brad

                    This is great. Rather than lose this info in the archives I thought
                    I'd set up a table in the Database section for this. I've already
                    added my entry. Hope you will do the same with your information. Its
                    relatively painless and easy to do.

                    I think it really useful that members contribute to the reference
                    resources of the list: Files, Photos, Links, Database. We've got over
                    790 members now and have been around for over four years but so far
                    there has been very little willingness on the part of members to share
                    vital information. Somewhat unfortunate given the potential.

                    Gerald

                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...> wrote:
                    > I am using the Orbital X as well:
                    > Rigilon MX II 145
                    > Exposure 1 min 20 sec
                    > 4.5 to 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                    > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                    > 10 minute postexposure
                    >
                    > Rigilon HX 145
                    > Exposure 2 - 3 minutes depending on application and how much shoulder
                    > we need
                    > 4 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                    > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                    > 15 minute postexposure
                    >
                    > Miraclon MS 145
                    > Exposure 1 min 45 sec
                    > 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                    > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                    > 10 minute postexposure
                    >
                    > BASF WS152
                    > Exposure 2 min 30 sec
                    > 10 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                    > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                    > 15 minute postexposure
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...>
                    wrote:
                    > > Brad
                    > >
                    > > What is the sequence you use for the Rigilon? I think it would be
                    > > useful for folks to provide their "successful" sequences here. Of
                    > > course they would need to be very specific to be of any use to others:
                    > > Machine. Manufacturer/Brand/Formulation Code. Exposure time, washout
                    > > time, drying time, post-exposure time. Purpose. Even sources would be
                    > > good.
                    > >
                    > > For instance (with my A&V Orbital machine) running Toyobo Printight
                    > > 152 GRs (steel-backed), which I buy from A&V, I have a generic
                    > > sequence for deep impression as 6 minutes exposure, 5 minutes washout
                    > > (90 degrees F), 15 minutes drying time (150 degrees F) and 12 minutes
                    > > post-exposure. I modify this a bit per client dependent upon their
                    > > intended use and practices.
                    > >
                    > > Gerald
                  • Mark Bauder
                    ... Hi Gerald, I agree with you. Copper is by far the better way to go. The walls on the letters can be made almost vertical and will make a crisp, clean image
                    Message 9 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      on 8/31/05 11:14 PM, Gerald Lange at bieler@... wrote:

                      > Brad
                      >
                      > The Toyobos are fairly hard as far as letterpress photopolymer plates
                      > go. But hardness rating per se is not a guarantee of "solidity." More
                      > like the hardness rating of an inking roller where it is used as an
                      > indicator of transfer qualities.
                      >
                      > You mention "our style of printing." I'm assuming deep impression? I
                      > think you are going to experience splay with probably any photopolymer
                      > plate under these conditions. Though I am not experienced with the
                      > Rigilon. Photopolymer plates aren't really designed for this. And
                      > thicker plates are going to splay more than thinner plates.
                      >
                      > I'd suggest using traditional copper engravings on a patent or
                      > magnesium base for really deep impression. Most of the suppliers
                      > accept computer files via email these days. I know Owosso does.
                      > Copper is a bit more expensive but likely worth it as they will give
                      > you what you want, which photopolymer likely cannot.
                      >
                      > Gerald
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
                      > wrote:
                      >> I have been processing plates, testing and using the above mentioned
                      >> polymers for the past 8 months. We are looking for a polymer that is
                      >> hard and one that will hold the cleanest type/impression.
                      >>
                      >> We have found that the Printight is a very soft polymer compared to
                      >> the rest and it does not hold up to our style of printing. The type
                      >> just smashes after a few impressions. Has anyone else had this
                      >> problem? I even went as far as to have the A&V rep come down to assist
                      >> us with exposing the plates to see if we were doing anything wrong.
                      >> He was surprised at what was happening. Has anyone experienced this?
                      >>
                      >> The BASF polymer by far had the cleanest impression and looked the
                      >> best but the washout smelled real bad, the washout time was extremely
                      >> long and the parent size plate was not a good size for us and we were
                      >> wasting a lot of polymer. This plate was a bit harder than the
                      >> Printight but we still had to back off on the preassure to make it work.
                      >>
                      >> The Rigilon seemed to be the plates that we had the best results with.
                      >> Short exposure times, fast washout, holds type very well, clean
                      >> impressions, great shoulder on the type, excellent ink release
                      >> properties and its relatively hard and stable.
                      >>
                      >> Can anyone recommend something that might work for us that they have
                      >> had good results with? Should I stop looking and just use the
                      >> Rigilon? I have learned a lot about photopolymer and processing in the
                      >> past 8 months but I feel that I have reached a point where I need some
                      >> expert advice on which polymer will work best. Hard and clean....
                      >>
                      >> Thanks for reading.
                      >> Brad
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      Hi Gerald,

                      I agree with you. Copper is by far the better way to go. The walls on the
                      letters can be made almost vertical and will make a crisp, clean image with
                      a deep impression. The old letterpressman would be rolling over in their
                      graves if they saw what is now the "in vogue" letterpress printing. But we
                      can offer something unique that can't be reproduced with a computer - by the
                      way, I have a couple of magnetic bases that were used twice if someone is
                      interested. E-mail me direct.

                      Cheers,
                      Mark Bauder
                      Sonoma Printers
                    • Gerald Lange
                      Scott Well, Martha has single handedly given letterpress a second wind so perhaps we owe her a tip of the hat. Likely some fine printers should schedule a
                      Message 10 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
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                        Scott

                        Well, Martha has single handedly given letterpress a second wind so
                        perhaps we owe her a tip of the hat. Likely some fine printers should
                        schedule a meeting with her, show her some fine press books with
                        appropriate impression and it will all change by the next issue of
                        Martha Stewart Living. I can envision it now, "letterpress gets its
                        beauty from its impression into the paper, which captures light and
                        shadow in a magical way. . . but NOT too much impression mind you, or
                        you will ruin the effect." That would do it.

                        Gerald


                        > I do not have experience with Toyoba or Printight, but in general, for
                        > very heavy impressions, I have done well with polymer. It certainly
                        > stands up much longer than does lead type to the demands of the Martha
                        > Stewart Heavy Impression Generation.
                        >
                        > I hope to see a lot more feedback from Toyoba users.
                        >
                        > --Scott
                      • John G. Henry
                        I notice that (in the details posted) the postexposures are exceedingly longer than the imaging exposure. Why is this? When setting up my exposure/washout
                        Message 11 of 19 , Sep 2, 2005
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                          I notice that (in the details posted) the postexposures are
                          exceedingly longer than the imaging exposure. Why is this? When
                          setting up my exposure/washout system, I got the impression that the
                          post exposure should be about half the length of the imaging exposure.

                          Can anyone shed some light on this (pardon the pun).

                          John H.
                        • Gerald Lange
                          John Most of the information sheets provided with plates indicate a longer postexposure than initial exposure. I d think you would at least need as long a
                          Message 12 of 19 , Sep 2, 2005
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                            John

                            Most of the information sheets provided with plates indicate a longer
                            postexposure than initial exposure. I'd think you would at least need
                            as long a postexposure as initial exposure as the postexposure is
                            reponsible for the polymerization of the subsurface area. This would
                            be necessary to ensure stability.

                            Most of the sheets that I have read indicate a postexposure to double
                            that of the initial exposure.

                            There is also some technical information that indicates that longer
                            postexposure helps to defer ozone attack though I'm not sure what the
                            consequences of too much postexposure would be as there is a certain
                            point where polymerization is complete (the molecular growth and
                            linkage has maxed out) and the effect of further ultraviolet exposure
                            is minimal. It would sort of have to be or the plates would be
                            continually changing while on press.

                            But then, I'm only on my second cup of coffee. . .

                            Gerald


                            > I notice that (in the details posted) the postexposures are
                            > exceedingly longer than the imaging exposure. Why is this? When
                            > setting up my exposure/washout system, I got the impression that the
                            > post exposure should be about half the length of the imaging exposure.
                            >
                            > Can anyone shed some light on this (pardon the pun).
                            >
                            > John H.
                          • elumdesigns
                            I am a believer that we are all in this together, regardless of competition and any information that people can learn from each other is only beneficial. I
                            Message 13 of 19 , Sep 3, 2005
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                              I am a believer that we are all in this together, regardless of
                              competition and any information that people can learn from each other
                              is only beneficial. I have gone to competitors in my industry when i
                              have had issues and problems that i needed help solving. We a very
                              young company so learning from mistakes and from other was vital. My
                              peers (competition) have helped me tremendously and it has been
                              invaluable.


                              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
                              > Thanks Brad
                              >
                              > This is great. Rather than lose this info in the archives I thought
                              > I'd set up a table in the Database section for this. I've already
                              > added my entry. Hope you will do the same with your information. Its
                              > relatively painless and easy to do.
                              >
                              > I think it really useful that members contribute to the reference
                              > resources of the list: Files, Photos, Links, Database. We've got over
                              > 790 members now and have been around for over four years but so far
                              > there has been very little willingness on the part of members to share
                              > vital information. Somewhat unfortunate given the potential.
                              >
                              > Gerald
                              >
                              > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
                              wrote:
                              > > I am using the Orbital X as well:
                              > > Rigilon MX II 145
                              > > Exposure 1 min 20 sec
                              > > 4.5 to 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                              > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                              > > 10 minute postexposure
                              > >
                              > > Rigilon HX 145
                              > > Exposure 2 - 3 minutes depending on application and how much shoulder
                              > > we need
                              > > 4 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                              > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                              > > 15 minute postexposure
                              > >
                              > > Miraclon MS 145
                              > > Exposure 1 min 45 sec
                              > > 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                              > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                              > > 10 minute postexposure
                              > >
                              > > BASF WS152
                              > > Exposure 2 min 30 sec
                              > > 10 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                              > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                              > > 15 minute postexposure
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...>
                              > wrote:
                              > > > Brad
                              > > >
                              > > > What is the sequence you use for the Rigilon? I think it would be
                              > > > useful for folks to provide their "successful" sequences here. Of
                              > > > course they would need to be very specific to be of any use to
                              others:
                              > > > Machine. Manufacturer/Brand/Formulation Code. Exposure time, washout
                              > > > time, drying time, post-exposure time. Purpose. Even sources
                              would be
                              > > > good.
                              > > >
                              > > > For instance (with my A&V Orbital machine) running Toyobo Printight
                              > > > 152 GRs (steel-backed), which I buy from A&V, I have a generic
                              > > > sequence for deep impression as 6 minutes exposure, 5 minutes
                              washout
                              > > > (90 degrees F), 15 minutes drying time (150 degrees F) and 12
                              minutes
                              > > > post-exposure. I modify this a bit per client dependent upon their
                              > > > intended use and practices.
                              > > >
                              > > > Gerald
                            • elumdesigns
                              ... assist ... it work. ... with. ... in the ... some ... on the ... image with ... But we ... - by the ... someone is ... I agree as well however we are in a
                              Message 14 of 19 , Sep 3, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Mark Bauder
                                <sonomaprinters@a...> wrote:
                                > on 8/31/05 11:14 PM, Gerald Lange at bieler@w... wrote:
                                >
                                > > Brad
                                > >
                                > > The Toyobos are fairly hard as far as letterpress photopolymer plates
                                > > go. But hardness rating per se is not a guarantee of "solidity." More
                                > > like the hardness rating of an inking roller where it is used as an
                                > > indicator of transfer qualities.
                                > >
                                > > You mention "our style of printing." I'm assuming deep impression? I
                                > > think you are going to experience splay with probably any photopolymer
                                > > plate under these conditions. Though I am not experienced with the
                                > > Rigilon. Photopolymer plates aren't really designed for this. And
                                > > thicker plates are going to splay more than thinner plates.
                                > >
                                > > I'd suggest using traditional copper engravings on a patent or
                                > > magnesium base for really deep impression. Most of the suppliers
                                > > accept computer files via email these days. I know Owosso does.
                                > > Copper is a bit more expensive but likely worth it as they will give
                                > > you what you want, which photopolymer likely cannot.
                                > >
                                > > Gerald
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
                                > > wrote:
                                > >> I have been processing plates, testing and using the above mentioned
                                > >> polymers for the past 8 months. We are looking for a polymer that is
                                > >> hard and one that will hold the cleanest type/impression.
                                > >>
                                > >> We have found that the Printight is a very soft polymer compared to
                                > >> the rest and it does not hold up to our style of printing. The type
                                > >> just smashes after a few impressions. Has anyone else had this
                                > >> problem? I even went as far as to have the A&V rep come down to
                                assist
                                > >> us with exposing the plates to see if we were doing anything wrong.
                                > >> He was surprised at what was happening. Has anyone experienced this?
                                > >>
                                > >> The BASF polymer by far had the cleanest impression and looked the
                                > >> best but the washout smelled real bad, the washout time was extremely
                                > >> long and the parent size plate was not a good size for us and we were
                                > >> wasting a lot of polymer. This plate was a bit harder than the
                                > >> Printight but we still had to back off on the preassure to make
                                it work.
                                > >>
                                > >> The Rigilon seemed to be the plates that we had the best results
                                with.
                                > >> Short exposure times, fast washout, holds type very well, clean
                                > >> impressions, great shoulder on the type, excellent ink release
                                > >> properties and its relatively hard and stable.
                                > >>
                                > >> Can anyone recommend something that might work for us that they have
                                > >> had good results with? Should I stop looking and just use the
                                > >> Rigilon? I have learned a lot about photopolymer and processing
                                in the
                                > >> past 8 months but I feel that I have reached a point where I need
                                some
                                > >> expert advice on which polymer will work best. Hard and clean....
                                > >>
                                > >> Thanks for reading.
                                > >> Brad
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > Hi Gerald,
                                >
                                > I agree with you. Copper is by far the better way to go. The walls
                                on the
                                > letters can be made almost vertical and will make a crisp, clean
                                image with
                                > a deep impression. The old letterpressman would be rolling over in their
                                > graves if they saw what is now the "in vogue" letterpress printing.
                                But we
                                > can offer something unique that can't be reproduced with a computer
                                - by the
                                > way, I have a couple of magnetic bases that were used twice if
                                someone is
                                > interested. E-mail me direct.
                                >
                                > Cheers,
                                > Mark Bauder
                                > Sonoma Printers


                                I agree as well however we are in a very high production situation and
                                we are making anywhere fom 75 - 100 plates a week and during our busy
                                season, this number can double. We were using Owosso and spending more
                                than $700.00 a month in UPS fees alone.
                              • elumdesigns
                                I double, sometimes triple the pre-exposure time. It tends to harden the plates more.
                                Message 15 of 19 , Sep 3, 2005
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                                  I double, sometimes triple the pre-exposure time. It tends to harden
                                  the plates more.

                                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "John G. Henry" <JohnH@i...> wrote:
                                  > I notice that (in the details posted) the postexposures are
                                  > exceedingly longer than the imaging exposure. Why is this? When
                                  > setting up my exposure/washout system, I got the impression that the
                                  > post exposure should be about half the length of the imaging exposure.
                                  >
                                  > Can anyone shed some light on this (pardon the pun).
                                  >
                                  > John H.
                                • elumdesigns
                                  I dont see the table that you created on polymer processing times.... ... would be ... washout ... minutes
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Sep 8, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I dont see the table that you created on polymer processing times....

                                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
                                    > Thanks Brad
                                    >
                                    > This is great. Rather than lose this info in the archives I thought
                                    > I'd set up a table in the Database section for this. I've already
                                    > added my entry. Hope you will do the same with your information. Its
                                    > relatively painless and easy to do.
                                    >
                                    > I think it really useful that members contribute to the reference
                                    > resources of the list: Files, Photos, Links, Database. We've got over
                                    > 790 members now and have been around for over four years but so far
                                    > there has been very little willingness on the part of members to share
                                    > vital information. Somewhat unfortunate given the potential.
                                    >
                                    > Gerald
                                    >
                                    > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > > I am using the Orbital X as well:
                                    > > Rigilon MX II 145
                                    > > Exposure 1 min 20 sec
                                    > > 4.5 to 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                    > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                    > > 10 minute postexposure
                                    > >
                                    > > Rigilon HX 145
                                    > > Exposure 2 - 3 minutes depending on application and how much shoulder
                                    > > we need
                                    > > 4 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                    > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                    > > 15 minute postexposure
                                    > >
                                    > > Miraclon MS 145
                                    > > Exposure 1 min 45 sec
                                    > > 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                    > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                    > > 10 minute postexposure
                                    > >
                                    > > BASF WS152
                                    > > Exposure 2 min 30 sec
                                    > > 10 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                    > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                    > > 15 minute postexposure
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > > > Brad
                                    > > >
                                    > > > What is the sequence you use for the Rigilon? I think it would be
                                    > > > useful for folks to provide their "successful" sequences here. Of
                                    > > > course they would need to be very specific to be of any use to
                                    others:
                                    > > > Machine. Manufacturer/Brand/Formulation Code. Exposure time, washout
                                    > > > time, drying time, post-exposure time. Purpose. Even sources
                                    would be
                                    > > > good.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > For instance (with my A&V Orbital machine) running Toyobo Printight
                                    > > > 152 GRs (steel-backed), which I buy from A&V, I have a generic
                                    > > > sequence for deep impression as 6 minutes exposure, 5 minutes
                                    washout
                                    > > > (90 degrees F), 15 minutes drying time (150 degrees F) and 12
                                    minutes
                                    > > > post-exposure. I modify this a bit per client dependent upon their
                                    > > > intended use and practices.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Gerald
                                  • Gerald Lange
                                    Brad Sorry, a couple of the database tables were removed during routine housekeeping. It is now back in place. Gerald ... [Non-text portions of this message
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Sep 8, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Brad

                                      Sorry, a couple of the database tables were removed during routine
                                      housekeeping. It is now back in place.

                                      Gerald

                                      elumdesigns wrote:

                                      >I dont see the table that you created on polymer processing times....
                                      >
                                      >--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >>Thanks Brad
                                      >>
                                      >>This is great. Rather than lose this info in the archives I thought
                                      >>I'd set up a table in the Database section for this. I've already
                                      >>added my entry. Hope you will do the same with your information. Its
                                      >>relatively painless and easy to do.
                                      >>
                                      >>I think it really useful that members contribute to the reference
                                      >>resources of the list: Files, Photos, Links, Database. We've got over
                                      >>790 members now and have been around for over four years but so far
                                      >>there has been very little willingness on the part of members to share
                                      >>vital information. Somewhat unfortunate given the potential.
                                      >>
                                      >>Gerald
                                      >>
                                      >>--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >>>I am using the Orbital X as well:
                                      >>>Rigilon MX II 145
                                      >>>Exposure 1 min 20 sec
                                      >>>4.5 to 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                      >>>10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                      >>>10 minute postexposure
                                      >>>
                                      >>>Rigilon HX 145
                                      >>>Exposure 2 - 3 minutes depending on application and how much shoulder
                                      >>>we need
                                      >>>4 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                      >>>10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                      >>>15 minute postexposure
                                      >>>
                                      >>>Miraclon MS 145
                                      >>>Exposure 1 min 45 sec
                                      >>>5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                      >>>10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                      >>>10 minute postexposure
                                      >>>
                                      >>>BASF WS152
                                      >>>Exposure 2 min 30 sec
                                      >>>10 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                      >>>10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                      >>>15 minute postexposure
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>>



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Chad Pastotnik
                                      I m looking for a chase for a tabletop lever Hohner press with the following specs: outside dimensions - 11 3/8 x 7+ inches (at least this is the size of the
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Oct 25, 2005
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I'm looking for a chase for a tabletop lever Hohner press with the
                                        following specs:

                                        outside dimensions - 11 3/8 x 7+ inches (at least this is the size of
                                        the bed)
                                        inside dimensions - 10 x 6 1/2 inches (according to old American
                                        Printing Equip. & Supply catalogs)

                                        C&P Pilot chases fit inside the bed between the rails but seem just a
                                        little to tall. The chase for this particular Hohner (don't know about
                                        others) requires a recessed area in the outside of the frame to accept
                                        "ears" that protrude 1/8" from the bed frame and rails as shown in this
                                        crude illustration where the left margin of the page is the bed of the
                                        press:
                                        /]
                                        / ] 1 1/16"
                                        / ]
                                        1/2" [__]

                                        5/8"

                                        If anyone can help me out here I'd greatly appreciate it.

                                        Chad

                                        _____________________________

                                        Chad Pastotnik
                                        Deep Wood Press 231.587.0506
                                        www.deepwoodpress.com
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