Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Toyoba Printight 152 / Rigilon MX II 145 / BASF WS 152

Expand Messages
  • elumdesigns
    I have been processing plates, testing and using the above mentioned polymers for the past 8 months. We are looking for a polymer that is hard and one that
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 31 9:35 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      I have been processing plates, testing and using the above mentioned
      polymers for the past 8 months. We are looking for a polymer that is
      hard and one that will hold the cleanest type/impression.

      We have found that the Printight is a very soft polymer compared to
      the rest and it does not hold up to our style of printing. The type
      just smashes after a few impressions. Has anyone else had this
      problem? I even went as far as to have the A&V rep come down to assist
      us with exposing the plates to see if we were doing anything wrong.
      He was surprised at what was happening. Has anyone experienced this?

      The BASF polymer by far had the cleanest impression and looked the
      best but the washout smelled real bad, the washout time was extremely
      long and the parent size plate was not a good size for us and we were
      wasting a lot of polymer. This plate was a bit harder than the
      Printight but we still had to back off on the preassure to make it work.

      The Rigilon seemed to be the plates that we had the best results with.
      Short exposure times, fast washout, holds type very well, clean
      impressions, great shoulder on the type, excellent ink release
      properties and its relatively hard and stable.

      Can anyone recommend something that might work for us that they have
      had good results with? Should I stop looking and just use the
      Rigilon? I have learned a lot about photopolymer and processing in the
      past 8 months but I feel that I have reached a point where I need some
      expert advice on which polymer will work best. Hard and clean....

      Thanks for reading.
      Brad
    • Gerald Lange
      Brad The Toyobos are fairly hard as far as letterpress photopolymer plates go. But hardness rating per se is not a guarantee of solidity. More like the
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Brad

        The Toyobos are fairly hard as far as letterpress photopolymer plates
        go. But hardness rating per se is not a guarantee of "solidity." More
        like the hardness rating of an inking roller where it is used as an
        indicator of transfer qualities.

        You mention "our style of printing." I'm assuming deep impression? I
        think you are going to experience splay with probably any photopolymer
        plate under these conditions. Though I am not experienced with the
        Rigilon. Photopolymer plates aren't really designed for this. And
        thicker plates are going to splay more than thinner plates.

        I'd suggest using traditional copper engravings on a patent or
        magnesium base for really deep impression. Most of the suppliers
        accept computer files via email these days. I know Owosso does.
        Copper is a bit more expensive but likely worth it as they will give
        you what you want, which photopolymer likely cannot.

        Gerald


        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
        wrote:
        > I have been processing plates, testing and using the above mentioned
        > polymers for the past 8 months. We are looking for a polymer that is
        > hard and one that will hold the cleanest type/impression.
        >
        > We have found that the Printight is a very soft polymer compared to
        > the rest and it does not hold up to our style of printing. The type
        > just smashes after a few impressions. Has anyone else had this
        > problem? I even went as far as to have the A&V rep come down to assist
        > us with exposing the plates to see if we were doing anything wrong.
        > He was surprised at what was happening. Has anyone experienced this?
        >
        > The BASF polymer by far had the cleanest impression and looked the
        > best but the washout smelled real bad, the washout time was extremely
        > long and the parent size plate was not a good size for us and we were
        > wasting a lot of polymer. This plate was a bit harder than the
        > Printight but we still had to back off on the preassure to make it work.
        >
        > The Rigilon seemed to be the plates that we had the best results with.
        > Short exposure times, fast washout, holds type very well, clean
        > impressions, great shoulder on the type, excellent ink release
        > properties and its relatively hard and stable.
        >
        > Can anyone recommend something that might work for us that they have
        > had good results with? Should I stop looking and just use the
        > Rigilon? I have learned a lot about photopolymer and processing in the
        > past 8 months but I feel that I have reached a point where I need some
        > expert advice on which polymer will work best. Hard and clean....
        >
        > Thanks for reading.
        > Brad
      • elumdesigns
        We have used Owosso for our magnesium plates. We bought a processing machine from A&V in order to pull the plate process in-house. We output plates everyday
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          We have used Owosso for our magnesium plates. We bought a processing
          machine from A&V in order to pull the plate process in-house. We
          output plates everyday and its saving us a tremendous amount of money
          as well as the fact that we now have controll over everything we do
          with the exception of film.

          Which Toyoba product would you recommend? Yes, we are going for a
          deep impression and some of or invitations and stationery have a lot
          of heavy coverage.

          I believe that the Rigilon is a moulding plate, this is the reason why
          its harder and isnt crushing.

          With the Printight and some other products we found that we were
          losing some of the dots above the "i" and smaller serifs that we use
          in our designs. It seemed that the font wouldnt "bounce back" after
          the impression. But, I might have been using the wrong material, still
          not sure.

          Brad

          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
          > Brad
          >
          > The Toyobos are fairly hard as far as letterpress photopolymer plates
          > go. But hardness rating per se is not a guarantee of "solidity." More
          > like the hardness rating of an inking roller where it is used as an
          > indicator of transfer qualities.
          >
          > You mention "our style of printing." I'm assuming deep impression? I
          > think you are going to experience splay with probably any photopolymer
          > plate under these conditions. Though I am not experienced with the
          > Rigilon. Photopolymer plates aren't really designed for this. And
          > thicker plates are going to splay more than thinner plates.
          >
          > I'd suggest using traditional copper engravings on a patent or
          > magnesium base for really deep impression. Most of the suppliers
          > accept computer files via email these days. I know Owosso does.
          > Copper is a bit more expensive but likely worth it as they will give
          > you what you want, which photopolymer likely cannot.
          >
          > Gerald
          >
          >
          > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
          > wrote:
          > > I have been processing plates, testing and using the above mentioned
          > > polymers for the past 8 months. We are looking for a polymer that is
          > > hard and one that will hold the cleanest type/impression.
          > >
          > > We have found that the Printight is a very soft polymer compared to
          > > the rest and it does not hold up to our style of printing. The type
          > > just smashes after a few impressions. Has anyone else had this
          > > problem? I even went as far as to have the A&V rep come down to assist
          > > us with exposing the plates to see if we were doing anything wrong.
          > > He was surprised at what was happening. Has anyone experienced this?
          > >
          > > The BASF polymer by far had the cleanest impression and looked the
          > > best but the washout smelled real bad, the washout time was extremely
          > > long and the parent size plate was not a good size for us and we were
          > > wasting a lot of polymer. This plate was a bit harder than the
          > > Printight but we still had to back off on the preassure to make it
          work.
          > >
          > > The Rigilon seemed to be the plates that we had the best results with.
          > > Short exposure times, fast washout, holds type very well, clean
          > > impressions, great shoulder on the type, excellent ink release
          > > properties and its relatively hard and stable.
          > >
          > > Can anyone recommend something that might work for us that they have
          > > had good results with? Should I stop looking and just use the
          > > Rigilon? I have learned a lot about photopolymer and processing in the
          > > past 8 months but I feel that I have reached a point where I need some
          > > expert advice on which polymer will work best. Hard and clean....
          > >
          > > Thanks for reading.
          > > Brad
        • Scott Rubel
          I do not have experience with Toyoba or Printight, but in general, for very heavy impressions, I have done well with polymer. It certainly stands up much
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            I do not have experience with Toyoba or Printight, but in general, for
            very heavy impressions, I have done well with polymer. It certainly
            stands up much longer than does lead type to the demands of the Martha
            Stewart Heavy Impression Generation.

            I hope to see a lot more feedback from Toyoba users.

            --Scott

            elumdesigns wrote:
            > We have used Owosso for our magnesium plates. We bought a processing
            > machine from A&V in order to pull the plate process in-house. We
            > output plates everyday and its saving us a tremendous amount of money
            > as well as the fact that we now have controll over everything we do
            > with the exception of film.
            >
            > Which Toyoba product would you recommend? Yes, we are going for a
            > deep impression and some of or invitations and stationery have a lot
            > of heavy coverage.
            >
            > I believe that the Rigilon is a moulding plate, this is the reason why
            > its harder and isnt crushing.
            >
            > With the Printight and some other products we found that we were
            > losing some of the dots above the "i" and smaller serifs that we use
            > in our designs. It seemed that the font wouldnt "bounce back" after
            > the impression. But, I might have been using the wrong material, still
            > not sure.
            >
            > Brad
          • Gerald Lange
            Brad If the Rigilon plates are working I d stick with them. I think that most manufacturers have plates formulated for moulding though. I suspose its a matter
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Brad

              If the Rigilon plates are working I'd stick with them. I think that most
              manufacturers have plates formulated for moulding though. I suspose its
              a matter of finding the correct formulation. Its likely also a matter of
              correct exposure and washout time sequences. Sounds like you have it
              right for the Rigilon.

              I remember Regis telling me a long while back that suddenly his
              Printights were disintegrating for some odd reason and so he switched to
              another brand. Don't know if he ever discovered the reason for that.
              I've not had a problem with Toyobo thus far, and more and more of my
              client base is going deep impression. I suspect its a matter of finding
              the sequence that works. Bit of Voodoo to it I'm afraid.

              Gerald

              elumdesigns wrote:

              >We have used Owosso for our magnesium plates. We bought a processing
              >machine from A&V in order to pull the plate process in-house. We
              >output plates everyday and its saving us a tremendous amount of money
              >as well as the fact that we now have controll over everything we do
              >with the exception of film.
              >
              >Which Toyoba product would you recommend? Yes, we are going for a
              >deep impression and some of or invitations and stationery have a lot
              >of heavy coverage.
              >
              >I believe that the Rigilon is a moulding plate, this is the reason why
              >its harder and isnt crushing.
              >
              >With the Printight and some other products we found that we were
              >losing some of the dots above the "i" and smaller serifs that we use
              >in our designs. It seemed that the font wouldnt "bounce back" after
              >the impression. But, I might have been using the wrong material, still
              >not sure.
              >
              >Brad
              >
              >--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >>Brad
              >>
              >>The Toyobos are fairly hard as far as letterpress photopolymer plates
              >>go. But hardness rating per se is not a guarantee of "solidity." More
              >>like the hardness rating of an inking roller where it is used as an
              >>indicator of transfer qualities.
              >>
              >>You mention "our style of printing." I'm assuming deep impression? I
              >>think you are going to experience splay with probably any photopolymer
              >>plate under these conditions. Though I am not experienced with the
              >>Rigilon. Photopolymer plates aren't really designed for this. And
              >>thicker plates are going to splay more than thinner plates.
              >>
              >>I'd suggest using traditional copper engravings on a patent or
              >>magnesium base for really deep impression. Most of the suppliers
              >>accept computer files via email these days. I know Owosso does.
              >>Copper is a bit more expensive but likely worth it as they will give
              >>you what you want, which photopolymer likely cannot.
              >>
              >>Gerald
              >>
              >>
              >> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
              >>wrote:
              >>
              >>
              >>>I have been processing plates, testing and using the above mentioned
              >>>polymers for the past 8 months. We are looking for a polymer that is
              >>>hard and one that will hold the cleanest type/impression.
              >>>
              >>>We have found that the Printight is a very soft polymer compared to
              >>>the rest and it does not hold up to our style of printing. The type
              >>>just smashes after a few impressions. Has anyone else had this
              >>>problem? I even went as far as to have the A&V rep come down to assist
              >>>us with exposing the plates to see if we were doing anything wrong.
              >>>He was surprised at what was happening. Has anyone experienced this?
              >>>
              >>>The BASF polymer by far had the cleanest impression and looked the
              >>>best but the washout smelled real bad, the washout time was extremely
              >>>long and the parent size plate was not a good size for us and we were
              >>>wasting a lot of polymer. This plate was a bit harder than the
              >>>Printight but we still had to back off on the preassure to make it
              >>>
              >>>
              >work.
              >
              >
              >>>The Rigilon seemed to be the plates that we had the best results with.
              >>>Short exposure times, fast washout, holds type very well, clean
              >>>impressions, great shoulder on the type, excellent ink release
              >>>properties and its relatively hard and stable.
              >>>
              >>>Can anyone recommend something that might work for us that they have
              >>>had good results with? Should I stop looking and just use the
              >>>Rigilon? I have learned a lot about photopolymer and processing in the
              >>>past 8 months but I feel that I have reached a point where I need some
              >>>expert advice on which polymer will work best. Hard and clean....
              >>>
              >>>Thanks for reading.
              >>>Brad
              >>>
              >>>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good!
              >http://us.click.yahoo.com/FXrMlA/dnQLAA/Zx0JAA/mFXtlB/TM
              >--------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Gerald Lange
              Brad What is the sequence you use for the Rigilon? I think it would be useful for folks to provide their successful sequences here. Of course they would need
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Brad

                What is the sequence you use for the Rigilon? I think it would be
                useful for folks to provide their "successful" sequences here. Of
                course they would need to be very specific to be of any use to others:
                Machine. Manufacturer/Brand/Formulation Code. Exposure time, washout
                time, drying time, post-exposure time. Purpose. Even sources would be
                good.

                For instance (with my A&V Orbital machine) running Toyobo Printight
                152 GRs (steel-backed), which I buy from A&V, I have a generic
                sequence for deep impression as 6 minutes exposure, 5 minutes washout
                (90 degrees F), 15 minutes drying time (150 degrees F) and 12 minutes
                post-exposure. I modify this a bit per client dependent upon their
                intended use and practices.

                Gerald
              • elumdesigns
                Gerald, Which Toyoba are you using. I want to call and get some test sheets from them. Thanks for the info. ... most ... matter of ... switched to ... assist
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Gerald, Which Toyoba are you using. I want to call and get some test
                  sheets from them.

                  Thanks for the info.

                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Gerald Lange <bieler@w...> wrote:
                  > Brad
                  >
                  > If the Rigilon plates are working I'd stick with them. I think that
                  most
                  > manufacturers have plates formulated for moulding though. I suspose its
                  > a matter of finding the correct formulation. Its likely also a
                  matter of
                  > correct exposure and washout time sequences. Sounds like you have it
                  > right for the Rigilon.
                  >
                  > I remember Regis telling me a long while back that suddenly his
                  > Printights were disintegrating for some odd reason and so he
                  switched to
                  > another brand. Don't know if he ever discovered the reason for that.
                  > I've not had a problem with Toyobo thus far, and more and more of my
                  > client base is going deep impression. I suspect its a matter of finding
                  > the sequence that works. Bit of Voodoo to it I'm afraid.
                  >
                  > Gerald
                  >
                  > elumdesigns wrote:
                  >
                  > >We have used Owosso for our magnesium plates. We bought a processing
                  > >machine from A&V in order to pull the plate process in-house. We
                  > >output plates everyday and its saving us a tremendous amount of money
                  > >as well as the fact that we now have controll over everything we do
                  > >with the exception of film.
                  > >
                  > >Which Toyoba product would you recommend? Yes, we are going for a
                  > >deep impression and some of or invitations and stationery have a lot
                  > >of heavy coverage.
                  > >
                  > >I believe that the Rigilon is a moulding plate, this is the reason why
                  > >its harder and isnt crushing.
                  > >
                  > >With the Printight and some other products we found that we were
                  > >losing some of the dots above the "i" and smaller serifs that we use
                  > >in our designs. It seemed that the font wouldnt "bounce back" after
                  > >the impression. But, I might have been using the wrong material, still
                  > >not sure.
                  > >
                  > >Brad
                  > >
                  > >--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...>
                  wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >>Brad
                  > >>
                  > >>The Toyobos are fairly hard as far as letterpress photopolymer plates
                  > >>go. But hardness rating per se is not a guarantee of "solidity." More
                  > >>like the hardness rating of an inking roller where it is used as an
                  > >>indicator of transfer qualities.
                  > >>
                  > >>You mention "our style of printing." I'm assuming deep impression? I
                  > >>think you are going to experience splay with probably any photopolymer
                  > >>plate under these conditions. Though I am not experienced with the
                  > >>Rigilon. Photopolymer plates aren't really designed for this. And
                  > >>thicker plates are going to splay more than thinner plates.
                  > >>
                  > >>I'd suggest using traditional copper engravings on a patent or
                  > >>magnesium base for really deep impression. Most of the suppliers
                  > >>accept computer files via email these days. I know Owosso does.
                  > >>Copper is a bit more expensive but likely worth it as they will give
                  > >>you what you want, which photopolymer likely cannot.
                  > >>
                  > >>Gerald
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
                  > >>wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>>I have been processing plates, testing and using the above mentioned
                  > >>>polymers for the past 8 months. We are looking for a polymer that is
                  > >>>hard and one that will hold the cleanest type/impression.
                  > >>>
                  > >>>We have found that the Printight is a very soft polymer compared to
                  > >>>the rest and it does not hold up to our style of printing. The type
                  > >>>just smashes after a few impressions. Has anyone else had this
                  > >>>problem? I even went as far as to have the A&V rep come down to
                  assist
                  > >>>us with exposing the plates to see if we were doing anything wrong.
                  > >>>He was surprised at what was happening. Has anyone experienced
                  this?
                  > >>>
                  > >>>The BASF polymer by far had the cleanest impression and looked the
                  > >>>best but the washout smelled real bad, the washout time was extremely
                  > >>>long and the parent size plate was not a good size for us and we were
                  > >>>wasting a lot of polymer. This plate was a bit harder than the
                  > >>>Printight but we still had to back off on the preassure to make it
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >work.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >>>The Rigilon seemed to be the plates that we had the best results
                  with.
                  > >>>Short exposure times, fast washout, holds type very well, clean
                  > >>>impressions, great shoulder on the type, excellent ink release
                  > >>>properties and its relatively hard and stable.
                  > >>>
                  > >>>Can anyone recommend something that might work for us that they have
                  > >>>had good results with? Should I stop looking and just use the
                  > >>>Rigilon? I have learned a lot about photopolymer and processing
                  in the
                  > >>>past 8 months but I feel that I have reached a point where I need
                  some
                  > >>>expert advice on which polymer will work best. Hard and clean....
                  > >>>
                  > >>>Thanks for reading.
                  > >>>Brad
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  --------------------~--> Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive
                  today at Network for Good!
                  > >http://us.click.yahoo.com/FXrMlA/dnQLAA/Zx0JAA/mFXtlB/TM
                  >
                  >--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • elumdesigns
                  I am using the Orbital X as well: Rigilon MX II 145 Exposure 1 min 20 sec 4.5 to 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to
                  Message 8 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I am using the Orbital X as well:
                    Rigilon MX II 145
                    Exposure 1 min 20 sec
                    4.5 to 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                    10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                    10 minute postexposure

                    Rigilon HX 145
                    Exposure 2 - 3 minutes depending on application and how much shoulder
                    we need
                    4 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                    10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                    15 minute postexposure

                    Miraclon MS 145
                    Exposure 1 min 45 sec
                    5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                    10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                    10 minute postexposure

                    BASF WS152
                    Exposure 2 min 30 sec
                    10 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                    10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                    15 minute postexposure




                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
                    > Brad
                    >
                    > What is the sequence you use for the Rigilon? I think it would be
                    > useful for folks to provide their "successful" sequences here. Of
                    > course they would need to be very specific to be of any use to others:
                    > Machine. Manufacturer/Brand/Formulation Code. Exposure time, washout
                    > time, drying time, post-exposure time. Purpose. Even sources would be
                    > good.
                    >
                    > For instance (with my A&V Orbital machine) running Toyobo Printight
                    > 152 GRs (steel-backed), which I buy from A&V, I have a generic
                    > sequence for deep impression as 6 minutes exposure, 5 minutes washout
                    > (90 degrees F), 15 minutes drying time (150 degrees F) and 12 minutes
                    > post-exposure. I modify this a bit per client dependent upon their
                    > intended use and practices.
                    >
                    > Gerald
                  • Gerald Lange
                    Thanks Brad This is great. Rather than lose this info in the archives I thought I d set up a table in the Database section for this. I ve already added my
                    Message 9 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks Brad

                      This is great. Rather than lose this info in the archives I thought
                      I'd set up a table in the Database section for this. I've already
                      added my entry. Hope you will do the same with your information. Its
                      relatively painless and easy to do.

                      I think it really useful that members contribute to the reference
                      resources of the list: Files, Photos, Links, Database. We've got over
                      790 members now and have been around for over four years but so far
                      there has been very little willingness on the part of members to share
                      vital information. Somewhat unfortunate given the potential.

                      Gerald

                      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...> wrote:
                      > I am using the Orbital X as well:
                      > Rigilon MX II 145
                      > Exposure 1 min 20 sec
                      > 4.5 to 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                      > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                      > 10 minute postexposure
                      >
                      > Rigilon HX 145
                      > Exposure 2 - 3 minutes depending on application and how much shoulder
                      > we need
                      > 4 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                      > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                      > 15 minute postexposure
                      >
                      > Miraclon MS 145
                      > Exposure 1 min 45 sec
                      > 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                      > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                      > 10 minute postexposure
                      >
                      > BASF WS152
                      > Exposure 2 min 30 sec
                      > 10 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                      > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                      > 15 minute postexposure
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...>
                      wrote:
                      > > Brad
                      > >
                      > > What is the sequence you use for the Rigilon? I think it would be
                      > > useful for folks to provide their "successful" sequences here. Of
                      > > course they would need to be very specific to be of any use to others:
                      > > Machine. Manufacturer/Brand/Formulation Code. Exposure time, washout
                      > > time, drying time, post-exposure time. Purpose. Even sources would be
                      > > good.
                      > >
                      > > For instance (with my A&V Orbital machine) running Toyobo Printight
                      > > 152 GRs (steel-backed), which I buy from A&V, I have a generic
                      > > sequence for deep impression as 6 minutes exposure, 5 minutes washout
                      > > (90 degrees F), 15 minutes drying time (150 degrees F) and 12 minutes
                      > > post-exposure. I modify this a bit per client dependent upon their
                      > > intended use and practices.
                      > >
                      > > Gerald
                    • Mark Bauder
                      ... Hi Gerald, I agree with you. Copper is by far the better way to go. The walls on the letters can be made almost vertical and will make a crisp, clean image
                      Message 10 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        on 8/31/05 11:14 PM, Gerald Lange at bieler@... wrote:

                        > Brad
                        >
                        > The Toyobos are fairly hard as far as letterpress photopolymer plates
                        > go. But hardness rating per se is not a guarantee of "solidity." More
                        > like the hardness rating of an inking roller where it is used as an
                        > indicator of transfer qualities.
                        >
                        > You mention "our style of printing." I'm assuming deep impression? I
                        > think you are going to experience splay with probably any photopolymer
                        > plate under these conditions. Though I am not experienced with the
                        > Rigilon. Photopolymer plates aren't really designed for this. And
                        > thicker plates are going to splay more than thinner plates.
                        >
                        > I'd suggest using traditional copper engravings on a patent or
                        > magnesium base for really deep impression. Most of the suppliers
                        > accept computer files via email these days. I know Owosso does.
                        > Copper is a bit more expensive but likely worth it as they will give
                        > you what you want, which photopolymer likely cannot.
                        >
                        > Gerald
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
                        > wrote:
                        >> I have been processing plates, testing and using the above mentioned
                        >> polymers for the past 8 months. We are looking for a polymer that is
                        >> hard and one that will hold the cleanest type/impression.
                        >>
                        >> We have found that the Printight is a very soft polymer compared to
                        >> the rest and it does not hold up to our style of printing. The type
                        >> just smashes after a few impressions. Has anyone else had this
                        >> problem? I even went as far as to have the A&V rep come down to assist
                        >> us with exposing the plates to see if we were doing anything wrong.
                        >> He was surprised at what was happening. Has anyone experienced this?
                        >>
                        >> The BASF polymer by far had the cleanest impression and looked the
                        >> best but the washout smelled real bad, the washout time was extremely
                        >> long and the parent size plate was not a good size for us and we were
                        >> wasting a lot of polymer. This plate was a bit harder than the
                        >> Printight but we still had to back off on the preassure to make it work.
                        >>
                        >> The Rigilon seemed to be the plates that we had the best results with.
                        >> Short exposure times, fast washout, holds type very well, clean
                        >> impressions, great shoulder on the type, excellent ink release
                        >> properties and its relatively hard and stable.
                        >>
                        >> Can anyone recommend something that might work for us that they have
                        >> had good results with? Should I stop looking and just use the
                        >> Rigilon? I have learned a lot about photopolymer and processing in the
                        >> past 8 months but I feel that I have reached a point where I need some
                        >> expert advice on which polymer will work best. Hard and clean....
                        >>
                        >> Thanks for reading.
                        >> Brad
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        Hi Gerald,

                        I agree with you. Copper is by far the better way to go. The walls on the
                        letters can be made almost vertical and will make a crisp, clean image with
                        a deep impression. The old letterpressman would be rolling over in their
                        graves if they saw what is now the "in vogue" letterpress printing. But we
                        can offer something unique that can't be reproduced with a computer - by the
                        way, I have a couple of magnetic bases that were used twice if someone is
                        interested. E-mail me direct.

                        Cheers,
                        Mark Bauder
                        Sonoma Printers
                      • Gerald Lange
                        Scott Well, Martha has single handedly given letterpress a second wind so perhaps we owe her a tip of the hat. Likely some fine printers should schedule a
                        Message 11 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Scott

                          Well, Martha has single handedly given letterpress a second wind so
                          perhaps we owe her a tip of the hat. Likely some fine printers should
                          schedule a meeting with her, show her some fine press books with
                          appropriate impression and it will all change by the next issue of
                          Martha Stewart Living. I can envision it now, "letterpress gets its
                          beauty from its impression into the paper, which captures light and
                          shadow in a magical way. . . but NOT too much impression mind you, or
                          you will ruin the effect." That would do it.

                          Gerald


                          > I do not have experience with Toyoba or Printight, but in general, for
                          > very heavy impressions, I have done well with polymer. It certainly
                          > stands up much longer than does lead type to the demands of the Martha
                          > Stewart Heavy Impression Generation.
                          >
                          > I hope to see a lot more feedback from Toyoba users.
                          >
                          > --Scott
                        • John G. Henry
                          I notice that (in the details posted) the postexposures are exceedingly longer than the imaging exposure. Why is this? When setting up my exposure/washout
                          Message 12 of 19 , Sep 2, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I notice that (in the details posted) the postexposures are
                            exceedingly longer than the imaging exposure. Why is this? When
                            setting up my exposure/washout system, I got the impression that the
                            post exposure should be about half the length of the imaging exposure.

                            Can anyone shed some light on this (pardon the pun).

                            John H.
                          • Gerald Lange
                            John Most of the information sheets provided with plates indicate a longer postexposure than initial exposure. I d think you would at least need as long a
                            Message 13 of 19 , Sep 2, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              John

                              Most of the information sheets provided with plates indicate a longer
                              postexposure than initial exposure. I'd think you would at least need
                              as long a postexposure as initial exposure as the postexposure is
                              reponsible for the polymerization of the subsurface area. This would
                              be necessary to ensure stability.

                              Most of the sheets that I have read indicate a postexposure to double
                              that of the initial exposure.

                              There is also some technical information that indicates that longer
                              postexposure helps to defer ozone attack though I'm not sure what the
                              consequences of too much postexposure would be as there is a certain
                              point where polymerization is complete (the molecular growth and
                              linkage has maxed out) and the effect of further ultraviolet exposure
                              is minimal. It would sort of have to be or the plates would be
                              continually changing while on press.

                              But then, I'm only on my second cup of coffee. . .

                              Gerald


                              > I notice that (in the details posted) the postexposures are
                              > exceedingly longer than the imaging exposure. Why is this? When
                              > setting up my exposure/washout system, I got the impression that the
                              > post exposure should be about half the length of the imaging exposure.
                              >
                              > Can anyone shed some light on this (pardon the pun).
                              >
                              > John H.
                            • elumdesigns
                              I am a believer that we are all in this together, regardless of competition and any information that people can learn from each other is only beneficial. I
                              Message 14 of 19 , Sep 3, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I am a believer that we are all in this together, regardless of
                                competition and any information that people can learn from each other
                                is only beneficial. I have gone to competitors in my industry when i
                                have had issues and problems that i needed help solving. We a very
                                young company so learning from mistakes and from other was vital. My
                                peers (competition) have helped me tremendously and it has been
                                invaluable.


                                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
                                > Thanks Brad
                                >
                                > This is great. Rather than lose this info in the archives I thought
                                > I'd set up a table in the Database section for this. I've already
                                > added my entry. Hope you will do the same with your information. Its
                                > relatively painless and easy to do.
                                >
                                > I think it really useful that members contribute to the reference
                                > resources of the list: Files, Photos, Links, Database. We've got over
                                > 790 members now and have been around for over four years but so far
                                > there has been very little willingness on the part of members to share
                                > vital information. Somewhat unfortunate given the potential.
                                >
                                > Gerald
                                >
                                > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
                                wrote:
                                > > I am using the Orbital X as well:
                                > > Rigilon MX II 145
                                > > Exposure 1 min 20 sec
                                > > 4.5 to 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                > > 10 minute postexposure
                                > >
                                > > Rigilon HX 145
                                > > Exposure 2 - 3 minutes depending on application and how much shoulder
                                > > we need
                                > > 4 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                > > 15 minute postexposure
                                > >
                                > > Miraclon MS 145
                                > > Exposure 1 min 45 sec
                                > > 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                > > 10 minute postexposure
                                > >
                                > > BASF WS152
                                > > Exposure 2 min 30 sec
                                > > 10 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                > > 15 minute postexposure
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...>
                                > wrote:
                                > > > Brad
                                > > >
                                > > > What is the sequence you use for the Rigilon? I think it would be
                                > > > useful for folks to provide their "successful" sequences here. Of
                                > > > course they would need to be very specific to be of any use to
                                others:
                                > > > Machine. Manufacturer/Brand/Formulation Code. Exposure time, washout
                                > > > time, drying time, post-exposure time. Purpose. Even sources
                                would be
                                > > > good.
                                > > >
                                > > > For instance (with my A&V Orbital machine) running Toyobo Printight
                                > > > 152 GRs (steel-backed), which I buy from A&V, I have a generic
                                > > > sequence for deep impression as 6 minutes exposure, 5 minutes
                                washout
                                > > > (90 degrees F), 15 minutes drying time (150 degrees F) and 12
                                minutes
                                > > > post-exposure. I modify this a bit per client dependent upon their
                                > > > intended use and practices.
                                > > >
                                > > > Gerald
                              • elumdesigns
                                ... assist ... it work. ... with. ... in the ... some ... on the ... image with ... But we ... - by the ... someone is ... I agree as well however we are in a
                                Message 15 of 19 , Sep 3, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Mark Bauder
                                  <sonomaprinters@a...> wrote:
                                  > on 8/31/05 11:14 PM, Gerald Lange at bieler@w... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Brad
                                  > >
                                  > > The Toyobos are fairly hard as far as letterpress photopolymer plates
                                  > > go. But hardness rating per se is not a guarantee of "solidity." More
                                  > > like the hardness rating of an inking roller where it is used as an
                                  > > indicator of transfer qualities.
                                  > >
                                  > > You mention "our style of printing." I'm assuming deep impression? I
                                  > > think you are going to experience splay with probably any photopolymer
                                  > > plate under these conditions. Though I am not experienced with the
                                  > > Rigilon. Photopolymer plates aren't really designed for this. And
                                  > > thicker plates are going to splay more than thinner plates.
                                  > >
                                  > > I'd suggest using traditional copper engravings on a patent or
                                  > > magnesium base for really deep impression. Most of the suppliers
                                  > > accept computer files via email these days. I know Owosso does.
                                  > > Copper is a bit more expensive but likely worth it as they will give
                                  > > you what you want, which photopolymer likely cannot.
                                  > >
                                  > > Gerald
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > >> I have been processing plates, testing and using the above mentioned
                                  > >> polymers for the past 8 months. We are looking for a polymer that is
                                  > >> hard and one that will hold the cleanest type/impression.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> We have found that the Printight is a very soft polymer compared to
                                  > >> the rest and it does not hold up to our style of printing. The type
                                  > >> just smashes after a few impressions. Has anyone else had this
                                  > >> problem? I even went as far as to have the A&V rep come down to
                                  assist
                                  > >> us with exposing the plates to see if we were doing anything wrong.
                                  > >> He was surprised at what was happening. Has anyone experienced this?
                                  > >>
                                  > >> The BASF polymer by far had the cleanest impression and looked the
                                  > >> best but the washout smelled real bad, the washout time was extremely
                                  > >> long and the parent size plate was not a good size for us and we were
                                  > >> wasting a lot of polymer. This plate was a bit harder than the
                                  > >> Printight but we still had to back off on the preassure to make
                                  it work.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> The Rigilon seemed to be the plates that we had the best results
                                  with.
                                  > >> Short exposure times, fast washout, holds type very well, clean
                                  > >> impressions, great shoulder on the type, excellent ink release
                                  > >> properties and its relatively hard and stable.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Can anyone recommend something that might work for us that they have
                                  > >> had good results with? Should I stop looking and just use the
                                  > >> Rigilon? I have learned a lot about photopolymer and processing
                                  in the
                                  > >> past 8 months but I feel that I have reached a point where I need
                                  some
                                  > >> expert advice on which polymer will work best. Hard and clean....
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Thanks for reading.
                                  > >> Brad
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > Hi Gerald,
                                  >
                                  > I agree with you. Copper is by far the better way to go. The walls
                                  on the
                                  > letters can be made almost vertical and will make a crisp, clean
                                  image with
                                  > a deep impression. The old letterpressman would be rolling over in their
                                  > graves if they saw what is now the "in vogue" letterpress printing.
                                  But we
                                  > can offer something unique that can't be reproduced with a computer
                                  - by the
                                  > way, I have a couple of magnetic bases that were used twice if
                                  someone is
                                  > interested. E-mail me direct.
                                  >
                                  > Cheers,
                                  > Mark Bauder
                                  > Sonoma Printers


                                  I agree as well however we are in a very high production situation and
                                  we are making anywhere fom 75 - 100 plates a week and during our busy
                                  season, this number can double. We were using Owosso and spending more
                                  than $700.00 a month in UPS fees alone.
                                • elumdesigns
                                  I double, sometimes triple the pre-exposure time. It tends to harden the plates more.
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Sep 3, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I double, sometimes triple the pre-exposure time. It tends to harden
                                    the plates more.

                                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "John G. Henry" <JohnH@i...> wrote:
                                    > I notice that (in the details posted) the postexposures are
                                    > exceedingly longer than the imaging exposure. Why is this? When
                                    > setting up my exposure/washout system, I got the impression that the
                                    > post exposure should be about half the length of the imaging exposure.
                                    >
                                    > Can anyone shed some light on this (pardon the pun).
                                    >
                                    > John H.
                                  • elumdesigns
                                    I dont see the table that you created on polymer processing times.... ... would be ... washout ... minutes
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Sep 8, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I dont see the table that you created on polymer processing times....

                                      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
                                      > Thanks Brad
                                      >
                                      > This is great. Rather than lose this info in the archives I thought
                                      > I'd set up a table in the Database section for this. I've already
                                      > added my entry. Hope you will do the same with your information. Its
                                      > relatively painless and easy to do.
                                      >
                                      > I think it really useful that members contribute to the reference
                                      > resources of the list: Files, Photos, Links, Database. We've got over
                                      > 790 members now and have been around for over four years but so far
                                      > there has been very little willingness on the part of members to share
                                      > vital information. Somewhat unfortunate given the potential.
                                      >
                                      > Gerald
                                      >
                                      > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > > I am using the Orbital X as well:
                                      > > Rigilon MX II 145
                                      > > Exposure 1 min 20 sec
                                      > > 4.5 to 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                      > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                      > > 10 minute postexposure
                                      > >
                                      > > Rigilon HX 145
                                      > > Exposure 2 - 3 minutes depending on application and how much shoulder
                                      > > we need
                                      > > 4 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                      > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                      > > 15 minute postexposure
                                      > >
                                      > > Miraclon MS 145
                                      > > Exposure 1 min 45 sec
                                      > > 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                      > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                      > > 10 minute postexposure
                                      > >
                                      > > BASF WS152
                                      > > Exposure 2 min 30 sec
                                      > > 10 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                      > > 10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                      > > 15 minute postexposure
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > > > Brad
                                      > > >
                                      > > > What is the sequence you use for the Rigilon? I think it would be
                                      > > > useful for folks to provide their "successful" sequences here. Of
                                      > > > course they would need to be very specific to be of any use to
                                      others:
                                      > > > Machine. Manufacturer/Brand/Formulation Code. Exposure time, washout
                                      > > > time, drying time, post-exposure time. Purpose. Even sources
                                      would be
                                      > > > good.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > For instance (with my A&V Orbital machine) running Toyobo Printight
                                      > > > 152 GRs (steel-backed), which I buy from A&V, I have a generic
                                      > > > sequence for deep impression as 6 minutes exposure, 5 minutes
                                      washout
                                      > > > (90 degrees F), 15 minutes drying time (150 degrees F) and 12
                                      minutes
                                      > > > post-exposure. I modify this a bit per client dependent upon their
                                      > > > intended use and practices.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Gerald
                                    • Gerald Lange
                                      Brad Sorry, a couple of the database tables were removed during routine housekeeping. It is now back in place. Gerald ... [Non-text portions of this message
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Sep 8, 2005
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Brad

                                        Sorry, a couple of the database tables were removed during routine
                                        housekeeping. It is now back in place.

                                        Gerald

                                        elumdesigns wrote:

                                        >I dont see the table that you created on polymer processing times....
                                        >
                                        >--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >>Thanks Brad
                                        >>
                                        >>This is great. Rather than lose this info in the archives I thought
                                        >>I'd set up a table in the Database section for this. I've already
                                        >>added my entry. Hope you will do the same with your information. Its
                                        >>relatively painless and easy to do.
                                        >>
                                        >>I think it really useful that members contribute to the reference
                                        >>resources of the list: Files, Photos, Links, Database. We've got over
                                        >>790 members now and have been around for over four years but so far
                                        >>there has been very little willingness on the part of members to share
                                        >>vital information. Somewhat unfortunate given the potential.
                                        >>
                                        >>Gerald
                                        >>
                                        >>--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "elumdesigns" <bhfoster@g...>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >>>I am using the Orbital X as well:
                                        >>>Rigilon MX II 145
                                        >>>Exposure 1 min 20 sec
                                        >>>4.5 to 5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                        >>>10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                        >>>10 minute postexposure
                                        >>>
                                        >>>Rigilon HX 145
                                        >>>Exposure 2 - 3 minutes depending on application and how much shoulder
                                        >>>we need
                                        >>>4 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                        >>>10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                        >>>15 minute postexposure
                                        >>>
                                        >>>Miraclon MS 145
                                        >>>Exposure 1 min 45 sec
                                        >>>5 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                        >>>10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                        >>>10 minute postexposure
                                        >>>
                                        >>>BASF WS152
                                        >>>Exposure 2 min 30 sec
                                        >>>10 minute washout @ 90 degrees
                                        >>>10 minutes drying time @ 165 degrees (need to check temp to be exact.)
                                        >>>15 minute postexposure
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>>



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Chad Pastotnik
                                        I m looking for a chase for a tabletop lever Hohner press with the following specs: outside dimensions - 11 3/8 x 7+ inches (at least this is the size of the
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Oct 25, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I'm looking for a chase for a tabletop lever Hohner press with the
                                          following specs:

                                          outside dimensions - 11 3/8 x 7+ inches (at least this is the size of
                                          the bed)
                                          inside dimensions - 10 x 6 1/2 inches (according to old American
                                          Printing Equip. & Supply catalogs)

                                          C&P Pilot chases fit inside the bed between the rails but seem just a
                                          little to tall. The chase for this particular Hohner (don't know about
                                          others) requires a recessed area in the outside of the frame to accept
                                          "ears" that protrude 1/8" from the bed frame and rails as shown in this
                                          crude illustration where the left margin of the page is the bed of the
                                          press:
                                          /]
                                          / ] 1 1/16"
                                          / ]
                                          1/2" [__]

                                          5/8"

                                          If anyone can help me out here I'd greatly appreciate it.

                                          Chad

                                          _____________________________

                                          Chad Pastotnik
                                          Deep Wood Press 231.587.0506
                                          www.deepwoodpress.com
                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.