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Re: troubleshooting

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  • Gerald Lange
    David This kind of surprises me. I guess I ll have to respectively disagree. There are techical reports I could dig up concerning quantitative compression and
    Message 1 of 28 , Jun 3, 2005
      David

      This kind of surprises me. I guess I'll have to respectively disagree.

      There are techical reports I could dig up concerning quantitative
      compression and pressure measures of photopolymer plates which I would
      assume have more weight than "our" experiential wisdom or ad hoc
      tests, but clearly, what a waste of effort that would be.

      Gerald


      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, David Wall <applecartpress@y...>
      wrote:
      > > But the hardness rating of a plate has less to do with how deep your
      > > impression can be than it does with ink acceptance and transfer. Any
      > > photopolymer plate, no matter brand or hardness or thickness or
      relief
      > > depth, is going to splay under increased printing pressure (that is
      > > self
      > > evident to any seasoned printer). And "gain" is a normal consequence
      > > of
      > > increased impression with the letterpress process. If folks need
      deep
      > > impression without splay they would be better off going with a copper
      > > photomechanical engraving mounted on a metal base. There is a
      > > technical
      > > reason for the limitation of thickness and relief (and hardness) in
      > > regard to letterpress formulated plates.
      >
      > Oh come on . . . I haven't been following this thread up until now, so
      > maybe I've missed something---but this sounds like a bunch of baloney.
      > I consider myself an appropriately seasoned printer and I've never
      > found "splay" to be of any more consequence with photopolymer than it
      > is with metal type---which is to say, no consequence at all. If we were
      > using plates similar in durometer to hard rubber stamps I can see where
      > it would be a factor, but I highly doubt that any splay in the plates
      > that any of us use would be noticeable unless you were either
      > deliberately abusing the plate---by which I don't mean simply "deep
      > impression"---or you were somehow measuring in microns---in which case
      > ink squeeze and the amount of ink on the rollers would obliterate any
      > reliable evidence of splay. Perhaps this phenomenon is a factor in
      > flexo printing of screened images in cases where precise color matching
      > of prepress proofs and original artwork is important, but it certainly
      > doesn't play any significant role in letterpress printing from polymer
      > plates.
      >
      > Dave
      >
      > ________________
      > David P. Wall
      > The Applecart Press, LLC
      > 14 Maine Street, Box 43
      > Brunswick, ME 04011
      > Tel. 207-373-1690
      > Fax 207-373-1691
      > www.applecartpress.com
    • Harold Kyle
      ... I m sorry--I thought that was the plate that you preferred. Would a higher grade be BASF? Are there any other plates that you consider top of the line? ...
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 3, 2005
        On 6/3/05 5:45 PM, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...> wrote:
        > My comment about higher grade plate brand had nothing to do with Toyobo.
        I'm sorry--I thought that was the plate that you preferred. Would a higher
        grade be BASF? Are there any other plates that you consider top of the line?

        > so it is essentially
        > misleading to compare them or any other plate brand in the manner that
        > you suggest.
        The test I did showed that the Printight plate gained more with less detail.
        To get more detail I would have had to increase exposure, causing more gain.
        I relied on the rep selling Printight to dial in the right numbers. But I
        agree that this is a slippery issue, and best left up to the printer's
        judgement. I'm stating my personal preference and standing up for it based
        on tests I've done. The differences between brands are minimal but when I
        print I have the attitude: "I need all the help I can get." I really wish I
        could afford BASF plates, and I might consider using them more if they
        didn't smell so much!

        > Just out of curiosity, would you have switched brands if Toyobo had
        > surpassed the Jet in your comparison test?
        We sell Printight plates alongside Jet and BASF plates, so we're very
        familiar with the Printight brand in relation to the competition. We prefer
        them for intaglio processing. The pricing is comparable with Jet plates, so
        yes I would be tempted to switch brands if I felt the plates were equally
        sharp on the letterpress. The Printight salesman hasn't given up--we may be
        troubleshooting the gain issues soon. For now, I'm sticking with the plates
        that I know are going to give the best results.

        I'll be back on Monday! The trailer's loaded up and ready to go.

        Harold


        Boxcar Press
        Fine Printing / Digital Letterpress Supplies
        Delavan Center / 501 W. Fayette St. / Studio 222 / Syracuse, NY 13204
        315-473-0930 phone / 315-473-0967 fax / www.boxcarpress.com
      • LA. Book Arts
        All, the problem she has is with the machine, the machine doesn t seem to have a gage for vacuum pressure, so basically she has no way of knowing if she has
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 3, 2005
          All,

          the problem she has is with the machine, the machine doesn't seem to
          have a gage for vacuum pressure, so basically she has no way of knowing
          if she has enough or what.
          The exposing of a plate with Film is a very critical stage of
          platemaking, a good vacuum, a good piece of Film and it's smooth
          sailing. I just made 65 9.5 x13 inch plates (WH 94) for a book project
          the other day.
          If you have no way of measuring your action it is very difficult to
          repeat it over and over.

          charles


          www.custombindery.com
        • Gerald Lange
          Harold I actually prefer the BASF, especially for halftones or very fine detail though I am not sure I have quite figured out the correct washout for them as
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 3, 2005
            Harold

            I actually prefer the BASF, especially for halftones or very fine
            detail though I am not sure I have quite figured out the correct
            washout for them as they never seem finished to me. The surface
            texture is ideal, but yes, they do stink and crud up the bath. I like
            plates that indicate by color, surface and subsurface, which both the
            BASF and the Toyobo do. For some reason I think it helps clarify
            things for me.

            There are probably a lot better plates out there, BASF is getting to
            be rather old technology I'd think (maybe that's not bad though).
            Would appreciate any info you discover in this regard.

            You might like this: When I first started buying photopolymer plates I
            went to visit my processor and discovered a completely different plate
            on his press (a BASF). I asked him why he didn't sell those to his
            clients. He didn't miss a beat, "Because my customers are too f***ing
            cheap."

            At any rate, I keep profiles on clients as to their needs and
            expectations and often process plates based on various formulas I have
            used. I think the Toyobos require much less exposure and much more
            washout (than the reps tell you) to get to finer detail and better
            substructure. I've run Jets at the same formula and they are not quite
            there. So I assume they have their own configuration. But I don't use
            them or sell them so don't know what that would be.

            Once again, good luck with the move.

            Gerald

            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Harold Kyle <harold@b...> wrote:
            > On 6/3/05 5:45 PM, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
            > > My comment about higher grade plate brand had nothing to do with
            Toyobo.
            > I'm sorry--I thought that was the plate that you preferred. Would a
            higher
            > grade be BASF? Are there any other plates that you consider top of
            the line?
            >
            > > so it is essentially
            > > misleading to compare them or any other plate brand in the manner that
            > > you suggest.
            > The test I did showed that the Printight plate gained more with less
            detail.
            > To get more detail I would have had to increase exposure, causing
            more gain.
            > I relied on the rep selling Printight to dial in the right numbers.
            But I
            > agree that this is a slippery issue, and best left up to the printer's
            > judgement. I'm stating my personal preference and standing up for it
            based
            > on tests I've done. The differences between brands are minimal but
            when I
            > print I have the attitude: "I need all the help I can get." I really
            wish I
            > could afford BASF plates, and I might consider using them more if they
            > didn't smell so much!
            >
            > > Just out of curiosity, would you have switched brands if Toyobo had
            > > surpassed the Jet in your comparison test?
            > We sell Printight plates alongside Jet and BASF plates, so we're very
            > familiar with the Printight brand in relation to the competition. We
            prefer
            > them for intaglio processing. The pricing is comparable with Jet
            plates, so
            > yes I would be tempted to switch brands if I felt the plates were
            equally
            > sharp on the letterpress. The Printight salesman hasn't given up--we
            may be
            > troubleshooting the gain issues soon. For now, I'm sticking with the
            plates
            > that I know are going to give the best results.
            >
            > I'll be back on Monday! The trailer's loaded up and ready to go.
            >
            > Harold
            >
            >
            > Boxcar Press
            > Fine Printing / Digital Letterpress Supplies
            > Delavan Center / 501 W. Fayette St. / Studio 222 / Syracuse, NY 13204
            > 315-473-0930 phone / 315-473-0967 fax / www.boxcarpress.com
          • Gerald Lange
            Hi Charles No vacuum gauge? How did you find that out? Geez, this was all sort of a big waste of time then wasn t it? If it does nothing else, a gauge will
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 4, 2005
              Hi Charles

              No vacuum gauge? How did you find that out?

              Geez, this was all sort of a big waste of time then wasn't it? If it
              does nothing else, a gauge will tell you when vacuum is iffy, and, if
              it reveals release during exposure, your plate/s just went south. Kind
              of an important feature.

              Gerald


              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, LA. Book Arts <livres@a...> wrote:
              > All,
              >
              > the problem she has is with the machine, the machine doesn't seem to
              > have a gage for vacuum pressure, so basically she has no way of knowing
              > if she has enough or what.
              > The exposing of a plate with Film is a very critical stage of
              > platemaking, a good vacuum, a good piece of Film and it's smooth
              > sailing. I just made 65 9.5 x13 inch plates (WH 94) for a book project
              > the other day.
              > If you have no way of measuring your action it is very difficult to
              > repeat it over and over.
              >
              > charles
              >
              >
              > www.custombindery.com
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