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Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Damping paper

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  • Gerald Lange
    Dear Michael I suspect most folks fall into either of these two camps. Rummonds’ technique is based on historical trade practices and, as I recall, he did
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 7, 2002
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      Dear Michael

      I suspect most folks fall into either of these two camps. Rummonds’ technique
      is based on historical trade practices and, as I recall, he did not favor the
      Allen method because of possible damage to the surface of the paper during
      sponging. I believe this to be a consideration but, on the other hand, I also
      believe a lot of us have enough of a craft sensibility to where this is not
      going to happen.

      I prefer the Allen technique simply because it is a more intimate affair. But
      I don’t remember that he advocated interleaving with blotter material(?).
      William Everson has also had some interesting comments about dampened handmade
      paper from a more metaphysical standpoint: essentially that paper has a life
      of its own, and that it will constantly adapt to the situation. All the
      craftsperson has to do is control the situation. This would involve also the
      amount of time the paper sits after dampening, when to weight, when not to
      weight, when to turn, when not to turn, how much time it is left, how often it
      is turned, etc, all based on an experiential knowledge of the paper and its
      own unique adaptation process. Rather than a rote practice, I suspect
      equilization, or entropy, is really the key.

      I use the Allen method and apply the Everson wisdom. Rarely had a cockle, or a
      surface torn by the sponge, or a level of dampness that would betray me.

      >Using Allen's method, I was even going to try using air brush rather than
      >>>sponge for exact control of the amount of water on the dampened sheets used
      >for interleaving. At the same I can see the logic of absorbtion being the
      >>>great equalizer.

      Wonder if any one has tried this before. Sounds like it might be a good
      solution, especially since the Umbria is near a waterleaf with only a tad of
      internal sizing, and IS difficult to dampen with a sponge.


      All best

      Gerald
    • Michael McGarvey
      Thanks for the thoughtful replies to my questions about damping. I assume the reason why Rummonds and Allen both reccomend interleaving evenly with (1) damp
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 7, 2002
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        Thanks for the thoughtful replies to my questions about damping. I assume the reason why Rummonds and Allen both reccomend interleaving evenly with (1)
        damp sheet or blotter or board and (n) dry sheets is consistancy in the dampness of the printed sheets, and therefore consistancy in the run throughout
        the whole book edition. That is why Allen uses a sponge and Rummonds the pulp board consistant control of the amount. Using Allen's method, I was even
        going to try using air brush rather than sponge for exact control of the amount of water on the dampened sheets used for interleaving. At the same I can
        see the logic of absorbtion being the great equalizer. I will have to experiment with a bunch of soaked sheets interleaved with bunch of dry, as it would
        be easier still time wise. The only question is consistancy of amount of water soaked up, ( in the course of the edition) and does the amount disperse
        throughout the stack evenly ovenight ? I am starting a book edition using Umbria, so I will on one approach to use throughout.

        Michael McGarvey
        Port Press
      • amyarmato
        This is a question referring to a very old thread: I have been researching the archives on using damp paper for printing (lots of great information) and have
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 16, 2006
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          This is a question referring to a very old thread: I have been
          researching the archives on using damp paper for printing (lots of
          great information) and have noticed the references to three authors on
          this subject: Rummonds (found this book at Oak Knoll), Allen (found
          "Printing with the Handpress" at Abebooks.com) but would like to know
          the title of works referred to by William Everson. Also, I see the
          "Allen Press Bibliography" has instructions on damp boxes, does
          "Printing with the Handpress" as well or am I confused?

          Thanks,
          Amy Armato
          armatodesign.com

          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Michael
          >
          > I suspect most folks fall into either of these two camps. Rummonds'
          technique
          > is based on historical trade practices and, as I recall, he did not
          favor the
          > Allen method because of possible damage to the surface of the paper
          during
          > sponging. I believe this to be a consideration but, on the other
          hand, I also
          > believe a lot of us have enough of a craft sensibility to where this
          is not
          > going to happen.
          >
          > I prefer the Allen technique simply because it is a more intimate
          affair. But
          > I don't remember that he advocated interleaving with blotter
          material(?).
          > William Everson has also had some interesting comments about
          dampened handmade
          > paper from a more metaphysical standpoint: essentially that paper
          has a life
          > of its own, and that it will constantly adapt to the situation. All the
          > craftsperson has to do is control the situation. This would involve
          also the
          > amount of time the paper sits after dampening, when to weight, when
          not to
          > weight, when to turn, when not to turn, how much time it is left,
          how often it
          > is turned, etc, all based on an experiential knowledge of the paper
          and its
          > own unique adaptation process. Rather than a rote practice, I suspect
          > equilization, or entropy, is really the key.
          >
          > I use the Allen method and apply the Everson wisdom. Rarely had a
          cockle, or a
          > surface torn by the sponge, or a level of dampness that would betray me.
          >
          > >Using Allen's method, I was even going to try using air brush
          rather than
          > >>>sponge for exact control of the amount of water on the dampened
          sheets used
          > >for interleaving. At the same I can see the logic of absorbtion
          being the
          > >>>great equalizer.
          >
          > Wonder if any one has tried this before. Sounds like it might be a good
          > solution, especially since the Umbria is near a waterleaf with only
          a tad of
          > internal sizing, and IS difficult to dampen with a sponge.
          >
          >
          > All best
          >
          > Gerald
          >
        • Norman L McKnight
          Amy: The so-called Everson work is, I think, not a book but a text that the Allens quoted in their book: Printing With The Handpress. It appears on pp. 47/48
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 16, 2006
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            Amy: The so-called Everson work is, I think, not a book but a
            text that the Allens quoted in their book: Printing With The
            Handpress. It appears on pp. 47/48 of the 1st trade edition (Van
            Nostrand-Reinhold, 1969). It is fairly short, but their treatment
            of damping paper is excellent & thorough.

            The Rummonds book: Printing On The Iron Handpress does not de-
            scribe a humidor, but has considerable information on damping
            paper. His companion work: Nineteenth Century Printing Practices
            & The Iron Handpress also has numerous period articles treating
            the subject, vol. 1: pp. 447-481.

            As is usual in letterpess, you need to experiment using these
            texts as a guide.

            Norman McKnight
            Philoxenia Press
            Berkeley
          • Gerald Lange
            Amy Printing with the Handpress has the instructions for making the humidors. There is no book by Everson on printing but there have been occasional pieces
            Message 5 of 5 , Oct 16, 2006
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              Amy

              Printing with the Handpress has the instructions for making the
              humidors. There is no book by Everson on printing but there have been
              occasional pieces printed here and there from his letters and
              lectures. The magazine Quarry West, #32, Fall 1995 was dedicated
              partly to Everson and there are a couple of paragraphs within on his
              approach to dampening paper.

              Gerald
              http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "amyarmato" <amy@...> wrote:
              >
              > This is a question referring to a very old thread: I have been
              > researching the archives on using damp paper for printing (lots of
              > great information) and have noticed the references to three authors on
              > this subject: Rummonds (found this book at Oak Knoll), Allen (found
              > "Printing with the Handpress" at Abebooks.com) but would like to know
              > the title of works referred to by William Everson. Also, I see the
              > "Allen Press Bibliography" has instructions on damp boxes, does
              > "Printing with the Handpress" as well or am I confused?
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Amy Armato
              > armatodesign.com
              >
              > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Gerald Lange <bieler@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear Michael
              > >
              > > I suspect most folks fall into either of these two camps. Rummonds'
              > technique
              > > is based on historical trade practices and, as I recall, he did not
              > favor the
              > > Allen method because of possible damage to the surface of the paper
              > during
              > > sponging. I believe this to be a consideration but, on the other
              > hand, I also
              > > believe a lot of us have enough of a craft sensibility to where this
              > is not
              > > going to happen.
              > >
              > > I prefer the Allen technique simply because it is a more intimate
              > affair. But
              > > I don't remember that he advocated interleaving with blotter
              > material(?).
              > > William Everson has also had some interesting comments about
              > dampened handmade
              > > paper from a more metaphysical standpoint: essentially that paper
              > has a life
              > > of its own, and that it will constantly adapt to the situation.
              All the
              > > craftsperson has to do is control the situation. This would involve
              > also the
              > > amount of time the paper sits after dampening, when to weight, when
              > not to
              > > weight, when to turn, when not to turn, how much time it is left,
              > how often it
              > > is turned, etc, all based on an experiential knowledge of the paper
              > and its
              > > own unique adaptation process. Rather than a rote practice, I suspect
              > > equilization, or entropy, is really the key.
              > >
              > > I use the Allen method and apply the Everson wisdom. Rarely had a
              > cockle, or a
              > > surface torn by the sponge, or a level of dampness that would
              betray me.
              > >
              > > >Using Allen's method, I was even going to try using air brush
              > rather than
              > > >>>sponge for exact control of the amount of water on the dampened
              > sheets used
              > > >for interleaving. At the same I can see the logic of absorbtion
              > being the
              > > >>>great equalizer.
              > >
              > > Wonder if any one has tried this before. Sounds like it might be a
              good
              > > solution, especially since the Umbria is near a waterleaf with only
              > a tad of
              > > internal sizing, and IS difficult to dampen with a sponge.
              > >
              > >
              > > All best
              > >
              > > Gerald
              > >
              >
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