Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: troubleshooting

Expand Messages
  • typetom@aol.com
    ... more suction. I m guessing you are using polyester-backed plates and the vacuum is sucking hard enough to distort the contact between the plate and the
    Message 1 of 28 , Jun 2 10:44 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Jessica Spring wrote:
      >there is now a subtle but visible "plaid" where the vacuum lines produced
      more suction.


      I'm guessing you are using polyester-backed plates and the vacuum is sucking
      hard enough to distort the contact between the plate and the negative, by
      pulling the polyester material into the vacuum lines. I use steel-backed
      plates. Never seen any such effect. I wonder if a thin support layer beneath the
      plate material might solve the problem?

      Pure speculation! but I'd guess it's such a subtle effect that it wouldn't
      show on normal text or image areas. You wouldn't notice the plaid if the lines
      had other irregular variations already! A solid pattern with thin rules
      would test the limits of the system just about every way possible!


      Best wishes. Let us know what you discover....
      Tom

      Tom Parson
      Now It's Up To You Publications
      157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
      (303) 777-8951
      http://members.aol.com/typetom


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Gerald Lange
      Tom Interesting speculation but I doubt the vacuum is such, in any of these machines, to be able to pull a polyester-backed plate into the vacuum line. That
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 2 11:02 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Tom

        Interesting speculation but I doubt the vacuum is such, in any of
        these machines, to be able to pull a polyester-backed plate into the
        vacuum line. That would sort of be a major engineering flaw. I process
        both steel-backed and polyester-backed plates in my machine and I
        can't imagine this to be the case. While polyester-backed plates are
        certainly flexible (and a bit unnerving to those accustomed to
        steel-backs), they are not flexible enough to be drawn down into that
        thinly etched vacuum line, unless there is something wildly out of
        wack with Jessica's vacuum pump!

        Gerald


        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, typetom@a... wrote:
        >
        >
        > In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Jessica Spring wrote:
        > >there is now a subtle but visible "plaid" where the vacuum lines
        produced
        > more suction.
        >
        >
        > I'm guessing you are using polyester-backed plates and the vacuum
        is sucking
        > hard enough to distort the contact between the plate and the
        negative, by
        > pulling the polyester material into the vacuum lines. I use
        steel-backed
        > plates. Never seen any such effect. I wonder if a thin support
        layer beneath the
        > plate material might solve the problem?
        >
        > Pure speculation! but I'd guess it's such a subtle effect that it
        wouldn't
        > show on normal text or image areas. You wouldn't notice the plaid if
        the lines
        > had other irregular variations already! A solid pattern with thin
        rules
        > would test the limits of the system just about every way possible!
        >
        >
        > Best wishes. Let us know what you discover....
        > Tom
        >
        > Tom Parson
        > Now It's Up To You Publications
        > 157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
        > (303) 777-8951
        > http://members.aol.com/typetom
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jessica Spring
        Tom & Gerald-- The plates are 94FL. I do have the steel bar at the bottom, so I can try taking that off, and for comparison I can try a steel-backed plate. The
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 3 8:28 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Tom & Gerald--
          The plates are 94FL. I do have the steel bar at the bottom, so I can try
          taking that off, and for comparison I can try a steel-backed plate. The last
          bit of the mystery: my vacuum has a simple on-off switch and half the time
          the button won't stay on. I've replaced the button itself, but the problem
          remains, which Jet attributes to humidity. Hmmmm. I have to let it sort of
          warm up, then it stays on. As Charles suggested, I think the vacuum is a
          stinker (AKA "wildly out of whack") and this plate happens to reveal that in
          a way I hadn't seen consistently with type.

          Jessica

          > From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
          > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 06:02:55 -0000
          > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: troubleshooting
          >
          > Tom
          >
          > Interesting speculation but I doubt the vacuum is such, in any of
          > these machines, to be able to pull a polyester-backed plate into the
          > vacuum line. That would sort of be a major engineering flaw. I process
          > both steel-backed and polyester-backed plates in my machine and I
          > can't imagine this to be the case. While polyester-backed plates are
          > certainly flexible (and a bit unnerving to those accustomed to
          > steel-backs), they are not flexible enough to be drawn down into that
          > thinly etched vacuum line, unless there is something wildly out of
          > wack with Jessica's vacuum pump!
          >
          > Gerald
          >
          >
          > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, typetom@a... wrote:
          >>
          >>
          >> In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Jessica Spring wrote:
          >>> there is now a subtle but visible "plaid" where the vacuum lines
          > produced
          >> more suction.
          >>
          >>
          >> I'm guessing you are using polyester-backed plates and the vacuum
          > is sucking
          >> hard enough to distort the contact between the plate and the
          > negative, by
          >> pulling the polyester material into the vacuum lines. I use
          > steel-backed
          >> plates. Never seen any such effect. I wonder if a thin support
          > layer beneath the
          >> plate material might solve the problem?
          >>
          >> Pure speculation! but I'd guess it's such a subtle effect that it
          > wouldn't
          >> show on normal text or image areas. You wouldn't notice the plaid if
          > the lines
          >> had other irregular variations already! A solid pattern with thin
          > rules
          >> would test the limits of the system just about every way possible!
          >>
          >>
          >> Best wishes. Let us know what you discover....
          >> Tom
          >>
          >> Tom Parson
          >> Now It's Up To You Publications
          >> 157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
          >> (303) 777-8951
          >> http://members.aol.com/typetom
          >>
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Gerald Lange
          Jessica 94FLs are a tad softer than other plates, don t know if this is the culprit or not. I d recommend a hardness rating of 65-70 Shore D minimum. You might
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 3 10:22 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Jessica

            94FLs are a tad softer than other plates, don't know if this is the culprit or not. I'd recommend a hardness rating of 65-70 Shore D minimum. You might also think about switching to a higher grade plate brand.

            Gerald

            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Jessica Spring <springtide@i...>
            wrote:
            > Tom & Gerald--
            > The plates are 94FL. I do have the steel bar at the bottom, so I can try
            > taking that off, and for comparison I can try a steel-backed plate.
            The last
            > bit of the mystery: my vacuum has a simple on-off switch and half
            the time
            > the button won't stay on. I've replaced the button itself, but the
            problem
            > remains, which Jet attributes to humidity. Hmmmm. I have to let it
            sort of
            > warm up, then it stays on. As Charles suggested, I think the vacuum is a
            > stinker (AKA "wildly out of whack") and this plate happens to reveal
            that in
            > a way I hadn't seen consistently with type.
            >
            > Jessica
            >
            > > From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...>
            > > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            > > Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 06:02:55 -0000
            > > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: troubleshooting
            > >
            > > Tom
            > >
            > > Interesting speculation but I doubt the vacuum is such, in any of
            > > these machines, to be able to pull a polyester-backed plate into the
            > > vacuum line. That would sort of be a major engineering flaw. I process
            > > both steel-backed and polyester-backed plates in my machine and I
            > > can't imagine this to be the case. While polyester-backed plates are
            > > certainly flexible (and a bit unnerving to those accustomed to
            > > steel-backs), they are not flexible enough to be drawn down into that
            > > thinly etched vacuum line, unless there is something wildly out of
            > > wack with Jessica's vacuum pump!
            > >
            > > Gerald
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, typetom@a... wrote:
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Jessica Spring wrote:
            > >>> there is now a subtle but visible "plaid" where the vacuum lines
            > > produced
            > >> more suction.
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> I'm guessing you are using polyester-backed plates and the vacuum
            > > is sucking
            > >> hard enough to distort the contact between the plate and the
            > > negative, by
            > >> pulling the polyester material into the vacuum lines. I use
            > > steel-backed
            > >> plates. Never seen any such effect. I wonder if a thin support
            > > layer beneath the
            > >> plate material might solve the problem?
            > >>
            > >> Pure speculation! but I'd guess it's such a subtle effect that it
            > > wouldn't
            > >> show on normal text or image areas. You wouldn't notice the plaid if
            > > the lines
            > >> had other irregular variations already! A solid pattern with thin
            > > rules
            > >> would test the limits of the system just about every way possible!
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> Best wishes. Let us know what you discover....
            > >> Tom
            > >>
            > >> Tom Parson
            > >> Now It's Up To You Publications
            > >> 157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
            > >> (303) 777-8951
            > >> http://members.aol.com/typetom
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
          • Harold Kyle
            ... Well you finally stirred me to write with this comment! Re: softness . The hardness of the 94FL is 62 shore D so I think you d have a hard time seeing the
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 3 1:39 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              On 6/3/05 1:22 PM, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...> wrote:
              > 94FLs are a tad softer than other plates, don't know if this is the culprit or
              > not. I'd recommend a hardness rating of 65-70 Shore D minimum. You might also
              > think about switching to a higher grade plate brand.

              Well you finally stirred me to write with this comment!

              Re: "softness". The hardness of the 94FL is 62 shore D so I think you'd have
              a hard time seeing the difference between it and your recommended range of
              65-70. The difference is insubstantial. Also, should you want a harder
              plate, Jet makes a 94HFL that has 80 shore D. We at Boxcar Press have a job
              shop running the popular "deep impression" printing exclusively from the
              94FL. The plate's printing shows no evidence of "softness".

              Re: "Higher grade plate", Gerald, your opinion of Jet 94FL plates are of
              less quality will not be borne out in a side to side test of the material. A
              rep selling Toyobo Printight visited Boxcar Press' shop earlier this week
              and we proofed a test plate of Printight KF95 next to the Jet 94FL material.
              The Jet plate showed more detail and, at the same time, exhibited less gain;
              this is with a rep selling Printight monitoring the processing. After
              extensive testing, I've come to conclude that the only plate that gives the
              94FL a run for the money is the BASF WH95. The cost difference between these
              plates makes the 94FL much more desirable option. I would be happy, by the
              way, to scan a proof of the side-by-side comparison of Printight and Jet
              plates when I get a chance.

              Re: Jessica's platemaking "plaid" problem. I'm problem solving this with the
              manufacturer of the machine, who apparently can furnish a vacuum table
              adaptor to make the grooves less noticeable. I want to get more information
              before I promise you that this is possible. Apparently, the adaptor is a
              "diamond-plate" material that sits in the vacuum table. I'll post to the
              list to let you know when I have more information. The problems you're
              experiencing, though, appear to be from the platemaker and not the plate.

              Re: Jessica's platemaking button problem. I'm sorry I didn't touch base with
              you about this sooner. I remember calling you several months ago to let you
              know that I may have found the possible problem, but I guess we never
              touched base. Apparently, the powder-coating of the steel might have made
              the opening for the vacuum switch too small. The extra pressure on the
              switch causes problems in it working properly. You can file the opening to
              be a little wider see if the switch works better.

              Sorry not to be able to write sooner. I should be loading my trailer right
              now for a press move...

              Harold

              Boxcar Press
              Fine Printing / Digital Letterpress Supplies
              Delavan Center / 501 W. Fayette St. / Studio 222 / Syracuse, NY 13204
              315-473-0930 phone / 315-473-0967 fax / www.boxcarpress.com
            • Gerald Lange
              Harold My comment about higher grade plate brand had nothing to do with Toyobo. Neither Jet or Toyobo are what I would consider top grade plates. But they are
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 3 2:45 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Harold

                My comment about higher grade plate brand had nothing to do with Toyobo.
                Neither Jet or Toyobo are what I would consider top grade plates. But
                they are both adequate for most letterpress applications. I've run my
                own comparison tests of these particular brands as well and my suspicion
                is that these differing plates need differing exposure and washout times
                to provide optimum detail and subsurface strength, so it is essentially
                misleading to compare them or any other plate brand in the manner that
                you suggest.

                But the hardness rating of a plate has less to do with how deep your
                impression can be than it does with ink acceptance and transfer. Any
                photopolymer plate, no matter brand or hardness or thickness or relief
                depth, is going to splay under increased printing pressure (that is self
                evident to any seasoned printer). And "gain" is a normal consequence of
                increased impression with the letterpress process. If folks need deep
                impression without splay they would be better off going with a copper
                photomechanical engraving mounted on a metal base. There is a technical
                reason for the limitation of thickness and relief (and hardness) in
                regard to letterpress formulated plates.

                Just out of curiosity, would you have switched brands if Toyobo had
                surpassed the Jet in your comparison test?

                Gerald
                Good luck with the press move.



                Harold Kyle wrote:

                >On 6/3/05 1:22 PM, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >>94FLs are a tad softer than other plates, don't know if this is the culprit or
                >>not. I'd recommend a hardness rating of 65-70 Shore D minimum. You might also
                >>think about switching to a higher grade plate brand.
                >>
                >>
                >
                >Well you finally stirred me to write with this comment!
                >
                >Re: "softness". The hardness of the 94FL is 62 shore D so I think you'd have
                >a hard time seeing the difference between it and your recommended range of
                >65-70. The difference is insubstantial. Also, should you want a harder
                >plate, Jet makes a 94HFL that has 80 shore D. We at Boxcar Press have a job
                >shop running the popular "deep impression" printing exclusively from the
                >94FL. The plate's printing shows no evidence of "softness".
                >
                >Re: "Higher grade plate", Gerald, your opinion of Jet 94FL plates are of
                >less quality will not be borne out in a side to side test of the material. A
                >rep selling Toyobo Printight visited Boxcar Press' shop earlier this week
                >and we proofed a test plate of Printight KF95 next to the Jet 94FL material.
                >The Jet plate showed more detail and, at the same time, exhibited less gain;
                >this is with a rep selling Printight monitoring the processing. After
                >extensive testing, I've come to conclude that the only plate that gives the
                >94FL a run for the money is the BASF WH95. The cost difference between these
                >plates makes the 94FL much more desirable option. I would be happy, by the
                >way, to scan a proof of the side-by-side comparison of Printight and Jet
                >plates when I get a chance.
                >
                >Re: Jessica's platemaking "plaid" problem. I'm problem solving this with the
                >manufacturer of the machine, who apparently can furnish a vacuum table
                >adaptor to make the grooves less noticeable. I want to get more information
                >before I promise you that this is possible. Apparently, the adaptor is a
                >"diamond-plate" material that sits in the vacuum table. I'll post to the
                >list to let you know when I have more information. The problems you're
                >experiencing, though, appear to be from the platemaker and not the plate.
                >
                >Re: Jessica's platemaking button problem. I'm sorry I didn't touch base with
                >you about this sooner. I remember calling you several months ago to let you
                >know that I may have found the possible problem, but I guess we never
                >touched base. Apparently, the powder-coating of the steel might have made
                >the opening for the vacuum switch too small. The extra pressure on the
                >switch causes problems in it working properly. You can file the opening to
                >be a little wider see if the switch works better.
                >
                >Sorry not to be able to write sooner. I should be loading my trailer right
                >now for a press move...
                >
                >Harold
                >
                >Boxcar Press
                >Fine Printing / Digital Letterpress Supplies
                >Delavan Center / 501 W. Fayette St. / Studio 222 / Syracuse, NY 13204
                >315-473-0930 phone / 315-473-0967 fax / www.boxcarpress.com
              • David Wall
                ... Oh come on . . . I haven t been following this thread up until now, so maybe I ve missed something---but this sounds like a bunch of baloney. I consider
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 3 3:22 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  > But the hardness rating of a plate has less to do with how deep your
                  > impression can be than it does with ink acceptance and transfer. Any
                  > photopolymer plate, no matter brand or hardness or thickness or relief
                  > depth, is going to splay under increased printing pressure (that is
                  > self
                  > evident to any seasoned printer). And "gain" is a normal consequence
                  > of
                  > increased impression with the letterpress process.  If folks need deep
                  > impression without splay they would be better off going with a copper
                  > photomechanical engraving mounted on a metal base. There is a
                  > technical
                  > reason for the limitation of thickness and relief (and hardness) in
                  > regard to letterpress formulated plates.

                  Oh come on . . . I haven't been following this thread up until now, so
                  maybe I've missed something---but this sounds like a bunch of baloney.
                  I consider myself an appropriately seasoned printer and I've never
                  found "splay" to be of any more consequence with photopolymer than it
                  is with metal type---which is to say, no consequence at all. If we were
                  using plates similar in durometer to hard rubber stamps I can see where
                  it would be a factor, but I highly doubt that any splay in the plates
                  that any of us use would be noticeable unless you were either
                  deliberately abusing the plate---by which I don't mean simply "deep
                  impression"---or you were somehow measuring in microns---in which case
                  ink squeeze and the amount of ink on the rollers would obliterate any
                  reliable evidence of splay. Perhaps this phenomenon is a factor in
                  flexo printing of screened images in cases where precise color matching
                  of prepress proofs and original artwork is important, but it certainly
                  doesn't play any significant role in letterpress printing from polymer
                  plates.

                  Dave

                  ________________
                  David P. Wall
                  The Applecart Press, LLC
                  14 Maine Street, Box 43
                  Brunswick, ME 04011
                  Tel. 207-373-1690
                  Fax 207-373-1691
                  www.applecartpress.com
                • Gerald Lange
                  David This kind of surprises me. I guess I ll have to respectively disagree. There are techical reports I could dig up concerning quantitative compression and
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 3 7:57 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    David

                    This kind of surprises me. I guess I'll have to respectively disagree.

                    There are techical reports I could dig up concerning quantitative
                    compression and pressure measures of photopolymer plates which I would
                    assume have more weight than "our" experiential wisdom or ad hoc
                    tests, but clearly, what a waste of effort that would be.

                    Gerald


                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, David Wall <applecartpress@y...>
                    wrote:
                    > > But the hardness rating of a plate has less to do with how deep your
                    > > impression can be than it does with ink acceptance and transfer. Any
                    > > photopolymer plate, no matter brand or hardness or thickness or
                    relief
                    > > depth, is going to splay under increased printing pressure (that is
                    > > self
                    > > evident to any seasoned printer). And "gain" is a normal consequence
                    > > of
                    > > increased impression with the letterpress process. If folks need
                    deep
                    > > impression without splay they would be better off going with a copper
                    > > photomechanical engraving mounted on a metal base. There is a
                    > > technical
                    > > reason for the limitation of thickness and relief (and hardness) in
                    > > regard to letterpress formulated plates.
                    >
                    > Oh come on . . . I haven't been following this thread up until now, so
                    > maybe I've missed something---but this sounds like a bunch of baloney.
                    > I consider myself an appropriately seasoned printer and I've never
                    > found "splay" to be of any more consequence with photopolymer than it
                    > is with metal type---which is to say, no consequence at all. If we were
                    > using plates similar in durometer to hard rubber stamps I can see where
                    > it would be a factor, but I highly doubt that any splay in the plates
                    > that any of us use would be noticeable unless you were either
                    > deliberately abusing the plate---by which I don't mean simply "deep
                    > impression"---or you were somehow measuring in microns---in which case
                    > ink squeeze and the amount of ink on the rollers would obliterate any
                    > reliable evidence of splay. Perhaps this phenomenon is a factor in
                    > flexo printing of screened images in cases where precise color matching
                    > of prepress proofs and original artwork is important, but it certainly
                    > doesn't play any significant role in letterpress printing from polymer
                    > plates.
                    >
                    > Dave
                    >
                    > ________________
                    > David P. Wall
                    > The Applecart Press, LLC
                    > 14 Maine Street, Box 43
                    > Brunswick, ME 04011
                    > Tel. 207-373-1690
                    > Fax 207-373-1691
                    > www.applecartpress.com
                  • Harold Kyle
                    ... I m sorry--I thought that was the plate that you preferred. Would a higher grade be BASF? Are there any other plates that you consider top of the line? ...
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 3 8:07 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      On 6/3/05 5:45 PM, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...> wrote:
                      > My comment about higher grade plate brand had nothing to do with Toyobo.
                      I'm sorry--I thought that was the plate that you preferred. Would a higher
                      grade be BASF? Are there any other plates that you consider top of the line?

                      > so it is essentially
                      > misleading to compare them or any other plate brand in the manner that
                      > you suggest.
                      The test I did showed that the Printight plate gained more with less detail.
                      To get more detail I would have had to increase exposure, causing more gain.
                      I relied on the rep selling Printight to dial in the right numbers. But I
                      agree that this is a slippery issue, and best left up to the printer's
                      judgement. I'm stating my personal preference and standing up for it based
                      on tests I've done. The differences between brands are minimal but when I
                      print I have the attitude: "I need all the help I can get." I really wish I
                      could afford BASF plates, and I might consider using them more if they
                      didn't smell so much!

                      > Just out of curiosity, would you have switched brands if Toyobo had
                      > surpassed the Jet in your comparison test?
                      We sell Printight plates alongside Jet and BASF plates, so we're very
                      familiar with the Printight brand in relation to the competition. We prefer
                      them for intaglio processing. The pricing is comparable with Jet plates, so
                      yes I would be tempted to switch brands if I felt the plates were equally
                      sharp on the letterpress. The Printight salesman hasn't given up--we may be
                      troubleshooting the gain issues soon. For now, I'm sticking with the plates
                      that I know are going to give the best results.

                      I'll be back on Monday! The trailer's loaded up and ready to go.

                      Harold


                      Boxcar Press
                      Fine Printing / Digital Letterpress Supplies
                      Delavan Center / 501 W. Fayette St. / Studio 222 / Syracuse, NY 13204
                      315-473-0930 phone / 315-473-0967 fax / www.boxcarpress.com
                    • LA. Book Arts
                      All, the problem she has is with the machine, the machine doesn t seem to have a gage for vacuum pressure, so basically she has no way of knowing if she has
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 3 8:39 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        All,

                        the problem she has is with the machine, the machine doesn't seem to
                        have a gage for vacuum pressure, so basically she has no way of knowing
                        if she has enough or what.
                        The exposing of a plate with Film is a very critical stage of
                        platemaking, a good vacuum, a good piece of Film and it's smooth
                        sailing. I just made 65 9.5 x13 inch plates (WH 94) for a book project
                        the other day.
                        If you have no way of measuring your action it is very difficult to
                        repeat it over and over.

                        charles


                        www.custombindery.com
                      • Gerald Lange
                        Harold I actually prefer the BASF, especially for halftones or very fine detail though I am not sure I have quite figured out the correct washout for them as
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 3 8:54 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Harold

                          I actually prefer the BASF, especially for halftones or very fine
                          detail though I am not sure I have quite figured out the correct
                          washout for them as they never seem finished to me. The surface
                          texture is ideal, but yes, they do stink and crud up the bath. I like
                          plates that indicate by color, surface and subsurface, which both the
                          BASF and the Toyobo do. For some reason I think it helps clarify
                          things for me.

                          There are probably a lot better plates out there, BASF is getting to
                          be rather old technology I'd think (maybe that's not bad though).
                          Would appreciate any info you discover in this regard.

                          You might like this: When I first started buying photopolymer plates I
                          went to visit my processor and discovered a completely different plate
                          on his press (a BASF). I asked him why he didn't sell those to his
                          clients. He didn't miss a beat, "Because my customers are too f***ing
                          cheap."

                          At any rate, I keep profiles on clients as to their needs and
                          expectations and often process plates based on various formulas I have
                          used. I think the Toyobos require much less exposure and much more
                          washout (than the reps tell you) to get to finer detail and better
                          substructure. I've run Jets at the same formula and they are not quite
                          there. So I assume they have their own configuration. But I don't use
                          them or sell them so don't know what that would be.

                          Once again, good luck with the move.

                          Gerald

                          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Harold Kyle <harold@b...> wrote:
                          > On 6/3/05 5:45 PM, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
                          > > My comment about higher grade plate brand had nothing to do with
                          Toyobo.
                          > I'm sorry--I thought that was the plate that you preferred. Would a
                          higher
                          > grade be BASF? Are there any other plates that you consider top of
                          the line?
                          >
                          > > so it is essentially
                          > > misleading to compare them or any other plate brand in the manner that
                          > > you suggest.
                          > The test I did showed that the Printight plate gained more with less
                          detail.
                          > To get more detail I would have had to increase exposure, causing
                          more gain.
                          > I relied on the rep selling Printight to dial in the right numbers.
                          But I
                          > agree that this is a slippery issue, and best left up to the printer's
                          > judgement. I'm stating my personal preference and standing up for it
                          based
                          > on tests I've done. The differences between brands are minimal but
                          when I
                          > print I have the attitude: "I need all the help I can get." I really
                          wish I
                          > could afford BASF plates, and I might consider using them more if they
                          > didn't smell so much!
                          >
                          > > Just out of curiosity, would you have switched brands if Toyobo had
                          > > surpassed the Jet in your comparison test?
                          > We sell Printight plates alongside Jet and BASF plates, so we're very
                          > familiar with the Printight brand in relation to the competition. We
                          prefer
                          > them for intaglio processing. The pricing is comparable with Jet
                          plates, so
                          > yes I would be tempted to switch brands if I felt the plates were
                          equally
                          > sharp on the letterpress. The Printight salesman hasn't given up--we
                          may be
                          > troubleshooting the gain issues soon. For now, I'm sticking with the
                          plates
                          > that I know are going to give the best results.
                          >
                          > I'll be back on Monday! The trailer's loaded up and ready to go.
                          >
                          > Harold
                          >
                          >
                          > Boxcar Press
                          > Fine Printing / Digital Letterpress Supplies
                          > Delavan Center / 501 W. Fayette St. / Studio 222 / Syracuse, NY 13204
                          > 315-473-0930 phone / 315-473-0967 fax / www.boxcarpress.com
                        • Gerald Lange
                          Hi Charles No vacuum gauge? How did you find that out? Geez, this was all sort of a big waste of time then wasn t it? If it does nothing else, a gauge will
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jun 4 1:26 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Charles

                            No vacuum gauge? How did you find that out?

                            Geez, this was all sort of a big waste of time then wasn't it? If it
                            does nothing else, a gauge will tell you when vacuum is iffy, and, if
                            it reveals release during exposure, your plate/s just went south. Kind
                            of an important feature.

                            Gerald


                            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, LA. Book Arts <livres@a...> wrote:
                            > All,
                            >
                            > the problem she has is with the machine, the machine doesn't seem to
                            > have a gage for vacuum pressure, so basically she has no way of knowing
                            > if she has enough or what.
                            > The exposing of a plate with Film is a very critical stage of
                            > platemaking, a good vacuum, a good piece of Film and it's smooth
                            > sailing. I just made 65 9.5 x13 inch plates (WH 94) for a book project
                            > the other day.
                            > If you have no way of measuring your action it is very difficult to
                            > repeat it over and over.
                            >
                            > charles
                            >
                            >
                            > www.custombindery.com
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.