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hand washout

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  • Inge Bruggeman
    Any hints on increasing success with hand washout? Katie Harper Cincinnati, OH I would increase the exposure time and use a Stouffer Scale and shoot for an
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 24 9:05 AM
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      Any hints on increasing success with hand washout?

      Katie Harper
      Cincinnati, OH


      I would increase the exposure time and use a Stouffer Scale and shoot for an
      exposure time that gives you a solid 16 on the scale. This should get you
      closer.
      --

      ********************
      Inge Bruggeman
      Textura Letterpress Printing
      1017 SE 34th Avenue
      Portland, OR 97214

      www.texturaprinting.com



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Inge Bruggeman
      -Any hints on increasing success with hand washout?- I m a big advocate for hand washout. . .if you are into the process of things. . .and you don t mind
      Message 2 of 3 , Aug 25 6:41 PM
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        -Any hints on increasing success with hand washout?-


        I'm a big advocate for hand washout. . .if you are into the process of
        things. . .and you don't mind losing some plates in the experimental and
        learning process of it all. I hand wash out all of my plates, including very
        small/fine serifed type. If it is very very fine lined or serifed, I will
        occasionally have to redo a plate, but usually, it's all controlled in the
        exposure time. When washing the plates out I just try to be as machine-like
        and methodical as possible, without scrubbing more in one area than another.
        . .just methodically going in a circle one way, then another.

        I had a job to do for someone that wanted to emulate a ruled piece of paper,
        and the lines were very fine and also, not a consistent line, but dashes.
        I'm pretty sure it was a one point line thickness. I did test strips,
        increasing the exposure until they held during washout. This did not fatten
        the existing lines. The first large plate didn't work, but the second did,
        after increasing the exposure one last time.

        inge
        --

        ********************
        Inge Bruggeman
        Textura Letterpress Printing
        1017 SE 34th Avenue
        Portland, OR 97214

        www.texturaprinting.com

        > From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: 25 Aug 2001 13:23:19 -0000
        > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Digest Number 8
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > There are 9 messages in this issue.
        >
        > Topics in this digest:
        >
        > 1. hand washout
        > From: Inge Bruggeman <inge@...>
        > 2. RE: contact frames
        > From: "Joel Benson" <joel.benson@...>
        > 3. Re: How to convert 3M - UV exposure unit
        > From: Harold Kyle <harold@...>
        > 4. Re: How to convert 3M - UV exposure unit
        > From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
        > 5. RE: Re: How to convert 3M - UV exposure unit
        > From: "Joel Benson" <joel.benson@...>
        > 6. Re: contact frames
        > From: Katie Harper <knharper@...>
        > 7. RE: contact frames
        > From: "Joel Benson" <joel.benson@...>
        > 8. Re: contact frames
        > From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
        > 9. Suppliers list
        > From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 1
        > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:05:43 -0700
        > From: Inge Bruggeman <inge@...>
        > Subject: hand washout
        >
        > Any hints on increasing success with hand washout?
        >
        > Katie Harper
        > Cincinnati, OH
        >
        >
        > I would increase the exposure time and use a Stouffer Scale and shoot for an
        > exposure time that gives you a solid 16 on the scale. This should get you
        > closer.
        > --
        >
        > ********************
        > Inge Bruggeman
        > Textura Letterpress Printing
        > 1017 SE 34th Avenue
        > Portland, OR 97214
        >
        > www.texturaprinting.com
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 2
        > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:56:00 -0700
        > From: "Joel Benson" <joel.benson@...>
        > Subject: RE: contact frames
        >
        > "Any hints on increasing success with hand washout?
        >
        > Katie Harper
        > Cincinnati, OH"
        >
        > I've only hand-washed a few plates, when the motor in the washout
        > machine I was using was broken. I just laid the plate face down on the
        > brushes and rubbed, and it worked, but I remember it did weaken the
        > small stuff (periods) and I had to re-do at least one of them.
        >
        > The thing I noticed is that when you expose your image or type or
        > whatever, the polymer is not hardened all the way down to the backing
        > material. It is only in the post-exposure that the shoulders and the
        > under layers of the type/image are hardened. Consequently, during the
        > washout, the shoulders of the type are weak, and easily washed away.
        >
        > I think the hardened face of the type protects the shoulders from the
        > brush when the bristles are oriented close to 90 degrees to the face of
        > the plate and only lightly and evenly touching. This precise
        > brush-plate contact is harder to maintain by hand, so it is easier to
        > undercut your printing surface, allowing things to wash away or get
        > substantially weakened.
        >
        > The only hint I can offer is light, careful brushing. However, I can
        > think of two possible experiments; perhaps someone has already tried
        > these and can comment on their results. First, does washing with cold
        > water increase resistance to the bristles, allowing the shoulders to
        > hold up better? Second, does the thinner plate material hold up better,
        > because the initial exposure may harden closer to the backing material?
        > The stuff I use is .028 or something, but I know it comes thinner, like
        > .020 or some such. Maybe that makes a difference.
        >
        > Now my brain is going to be stuck all day on trying to think of a
        > homemade jig for holding the plate flat and light against the bristles!
        > If I think of something good, I'll post plans!
        >
        > Joel Benson
        > Dependable Letterpress
        > San Francisco
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 3
        > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:58:55 -0400
        > From: Harold Kyle <harold@...>
        > Subject: Re: How to convert 3M - UV exposure unit
        >
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> The UV lights in my 3M UV exposure unit are "Philips TLD 15W05". Are these
        >> correct UV lights for letterpress photopolymers (somebody told me the
        >> frequency could be wrong)?
        >>
        > An lighting and electrical store with be more authoritative than me, but
        > I use Philips TL series lamps in my platemaker. Mine are TLK and a
        > different wattage. TLDs will most likely work for you.
        >
        >> If I would convert the unit I can take out the existing glass plate very
        >> easy and then would have to go for the kreene & vacuum stuff. What distance
        >> would you typically have between UV-lights and the kreene?
        >>
        > The platemakers I have seen have had 1.5 to 2 inches distance between
        > the lights and the plate. Too close, and the shoulders of reverse type
        > etc. will fill in; too far and the shoulder will be too vertical and
        > weak. No one has ever really confirmed this belief of mine, though. Have
        > people had luck with other distances?
        >
        > Your conversion is more of an overhaul. You'd have to add quite a bit of
        > hardware to make it work with kreene and a vacuum. As long as we're
        > converting platemakers for polymer, you might find it easier to convert
        > an old offset platemaker by replacing its light source with the fixtures
        > in your contact frame & kreene. Just a thought.
        >
        > Harold Kyle
        >
        > --
        > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
        > Boxcar Press
        > Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
        > 640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
        > www.boxcarpress.com
        > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 4
        > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:31:59 -0000
        > From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
        > Subject: Re: How to convert 3M - UV exposure unit
        >
        > Dear Harold
        >
        > This is exactly what happens during photopolymerization. With longer
        > exposure times the photopolymer begins to fill in (just the opposite
        > of what you would common-sensical presume). Reverses and solids
        > require less exposure, thus are given more vertical strength.
        >
        > But what is interesting here (in your statement) is the possibility,
        > with one of these units, of being able to mechanically modify exposure
        > rates independent of exposure time!!!
        >
        >
        >> The platemakers I have seen have had 1.5 to 2 inches distance between
        >> the lights and the plate. Too close, and the shoulders of reverse type
        >> etc. will fill in; too far and the shoulder will be too vertical and
        >> weak. No one has ever really confirmed this belief of mine, though. Have
        >> people had luck with other distances?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 5
        > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:46:40 -0700
        > From: "Joel Benson" <joel.benson@...>
        > Subject: RE: Re: How to convert 3M - UV exposure unit
        >
        > Just to backtrack a bit:
        >
        > I'm attracted by rumors of machines available cheaply. Could someone
        > tell me what a generic name or description might be for a "convertable"
        > UV exposure unit? I'm looking for some names (or model types) or terms
        > I could use to describe what I am looking for when calling a used
        > equipment dealer or perusing ads. I am familiar with the units made
        > specifically for photopolymer, but not with the other machines used by
        > the other printing industries.
        >
        > Joel Benson
        > Dependable Letterpress
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 6
        > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:20:10 -0400
        > From: Katie Harper <knharper@...>
        > Subject: Re: contact frames
        >
        > Thanks to all who have offered hints on washing out by hand. I seem to
        > recall that thinner plate material works better with hand-washing for some
        > reason. I always assumed it allowed the washing out to be quicker, with less
        > danger of washing away fine detail.
        >
        > To hold the plate in place while brushing over it, my old pal Chip Schilling
        > in Minneapolis recommends putting down magnetic material in the bottom of a
        > photo tray, using adhesive that is not soluble in water, of course. I tried
        > this once with that thin magnetic stuff that you can get at Office Depot,
        > etc., for putting business cards onto. I was never able to get it to stick
        > to the tray, and the magnet on that stuff is very weak, so the plate would
        > not stick to it. It was frustrating! But it should work, in theory!
        >
        > Katie Harper
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >> From: "Joel Benson" <joel.benson@...>
        >> Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        >> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:56:00 -0700
        >> To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
        >> Subject: RE: [PPLetterpress] contact frames
        >>
        >> "Any hints on increasing success with hand washout?
        >>
        >> Katie Harper
        >> Cincinnati, OH"
        >>
        >> I've only hand-washed a few plates, when the motor in the washout
        >> machine I was using was broken. I just laid the plate face down on the
        >> brushes and rubbed, and it worked, but I remember it did weaken the
        >> small stuff (periods) and I had to re-do at least one of them.
        >>
        >> The thing I noticed is that when you expose your image or type or
        >> whatever, the polymer is not hardened all the way down to the backing
        >> material. It is only in the post-exposure that the shoulders and the
        >> under layers of the type/image are hardened. Consequently, during the
        >> washout, the shoulders of the type are weak, and easily washed away.
        >>
        >> I think the hardened face of the type protects the shoulders from the
        >> brush when the bristles are oriented close to 90 degrees to the face of
        >> the plate and only lightly and evenly touching. This precise
        >> brush-plate contact is harder to maintain by hand, so it is easier to
        >> undercut your printing surface, allowing things to wash away or get
        >> substantially weakened.
        >>
        >> The only hint I can offer is light, careful brushing. However, I can
        >> think of two possible experiments; perhaps someone has already tried
        >> these and can comment on their results. First, does washing with cold
        >> water increase resistance to the bristles, allowing the shoulders to
        >> hold up better? Second, does the thinner plate material hold up better,
        >> because the initial exposure may harden closer to the backing material?
        >> The stuff I use is .028 or something, but I know it comes thinner, like
        >> ..020 or some such. Maybe that makes a difference.
        >>
        >> Now my brain is going to be stuck all day on trying to think of a
        >> homemade jig for holding the plate flat and light against the bristles!
        >> If I think of something good, I'll post plans!
        >>
        >> Joel Benson
        >> Dependable Letterpress
        >> San Francisco
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >> PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 7
        > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:24:08 -0700
        > From: "Joel Benson" <joel.benson@...>
        > Subject: RE: contact frames
        >
        > The stuff they use for making those signs that stick on doors of cars
        > and trucks is heavier and stronger than the stuff they use for
        > business-card-type magnets. There may be an even heavier-duty product
        > out there, since I think this rubber magnet stuff has applications in
        > electric motors and other industrial machines, but I wouldn't know how
        > to spec it.
        >
        > I found a website that sells it pretty cheap, but it may be easier to
        > get the small piece you need from a local sign shop.
        >
        > http://www.beacongraphics.com/magnetic.html
        >
        > Joel Benson
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 8
        > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:23:32 -0000
        > From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
        > Subject: Re: contact frames
        >
        > Dear Joel and all
        >
        > You can get rubber magnetic sheeting of the type used in plate washout
        > units and also, I understand, on the PatMag, from Anderson & Vreeland
        > (tradenamed MagBack), and I suspect from other plate processing
        > machine manufacturers. It can be glued down with contact cement (to a
        > sheet of 3/8 inch Plexiglas) for water washout uses. Bunting Magnetics
        > also sells an amazing variety of the stuff, whatever configuration you
        > can come up with, they have it. Handy stuff, we use it all around the
        > shop. Recently needed to raise a glass collotype plate to about type
        > high on an iron hand press. Stuff worked great. One piece double
        > sticked to the glas and away you go, with the added benefit of some
        > useful resiliance under pressure of the platen.
        >
        > Ger
        >
        >
        > "Joel Benson" <joel.benson@p...> wrote:
        >> The stuff they use for making those signs that stick on doors of cars
        >> and trucks is heavier and stronger than the stuff they use for
        >> business-card-type magnets. There may be an even heavier-duty product
        >> out there, since I think this rubber magnet stuff has applications in
        >> electric motors and other industrial machines, but I wouldn't know how
        >> to spec it.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 9
        > Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 00:33:36 -0000
        > From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
        > Subject: Suppliers list
        >
        > Hello
        >
        > Erik has put a supplier link in Bookmarks, Houstra bv (manufacturer of
        > the Polimero platemaking machine). This could be a good way to build
        > up a suppliers list. You are all welcome to add appropriate links.
        >
        > Gerald
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • D. McNaughton
        Hello All I am just gathering together the bits and pieces to try PP hand processing. The local Miraclon agent has suggested MF94A which is polyester film
        Message 3 of 3 , Aug 26 6:40 PM
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          Hello All

          I am just gathering together the bits and pieces to try PP hand processing.
          The local Miraclon agent has suggested MF94A which is polyester film backed
          with a thickness of .94mm and a relief depth of .75mm (sorry, I don't have
          the maths to convert it to decimal inches)

          Does any one have any suggestion about this choice or is there something
          better to try?

          Thanks

          David McNaughton
          Toora Australia
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