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Re: [PPLetterpress] C&P Pilot with Base

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  • typetom@aol.com
    Hi, I tried to reply directly since I figured the answers I have are more for the direct questions than for the list, but it came back undeliverable. So I
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 3, 2002
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      Hi,
      I tried to reply directly since I figured the answers I have are more for the
      direct questions than for the list, but it came back undeliverable. So I
      guess I'll send it to the whole list:

      Hi lalaura2@... (mijayoga1),
      Sounds to me like you may need a different base? I haven't tried the Boxcar
      base/system but I think they are for a shallower cut of polymer than I have
      been using. I use the steel backed polymer plate material from Gene Becker --
      there are several different thicknesses of plates available....

      But that doesn't answer your question about the Pilot. The roller contact
      height is not adjustable on the press except by adding masking tape to the
      tracks to raise them. On larger C&P presses you can get adjustable trucks
      (the little wheels the rollers ride on). Sometimes called MERTs for Morgan
      Expansion Roller Trucks, these are made of a rubber wheel, with a nut that
      can be tightened to squeeze the rubber into a different diameter. I don't
      think they ever made those for the Pilot, though. Fritz Klinke at NA Graphics
      (nagraph@... or 970-387-0212) sells the MERTs and replaceable rubber
      parts, so he would know.

      Only other possibility I can think is maybe you have the wrong size metal
      trucks on the press, maybe from a Kelsey press or some other small press. Do
      the rollers hit correctly when you use type? If so (within a bit of masking
      tape adjustment), it ought to work for polymers with a base. You can check
      the height of the polymer plus base against metal type by turning them all
      face down so the bottoms will give you close edges to compare by feel. Should
      all be type-high.

      Good luck figuring it out! Tom

      Tom Parson
      Now It's Up To You Publications
      157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
      (303) 777-8951
      http://members.aol.com/typetom
    • Harold Kyle
      ... How thin do you think the plates for the Boxcar Base are? The base we shipped to Laura had a thickness of 0.8734 inches, which means that the press s
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 3, 2002
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        On 3/3/02 2:18 PM, "typetom@..." <typetom@...> wrote:
        > Sounds to me like you may need a different base? I haven't tried the Boxcar
        > base/system but I think they are for a shallower cut of polymer than I have
        > been using. I use the steel backed polymer plate material from Gene Becker --
        > there are several different thicknesses of plates available....

        How thin do you think the plates for the Boxcar Base are?

        The base we shipped to Laura had a thickness of 0.8734 inches, which means
        that the press's rollers are at least 0.045 out of alignment.

        Although plastic-backed plates for the Boxcar Base may be slightly thinner
        than those that some printers use, it takes a press-wrenching impression to
        bottom out a 0.039 plate (whose face relief is 0.029). I find the detail on
        thinner plates is sharper because the washout times are reduced.

        Whatever Laura's press's problem, I'd venture the solution lies in adjusting
        the rail height with a roller gauge.

        Harold

        ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
        Boxcar Press
        Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
        640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
        www.boxcarpress.com
        ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
      • David Goodrich
        Tom, I for one appreciated having your comments sent to the list as I too have been plagued by similar inking problems (for other reasons) on my Columbian No.
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 3, 2002
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          Tom,
          I for one appreciated having your comments sent to the list as I too have
          been plagued by similar inking problems (for other reasons) on my Columbian
          No. 2.

          The height of the printing surface over the shoulder of a photopolymer plate
          is much less than with type so that roller bulge can ink the shoulder very
          easily. The real answer is probably a harder roller but few of us are going
          to have a selection to choose from. The alternative is to raise the roller
          above its normal level for type. NA Graphics sells a special tape to apply
          to roller tracks for this purpose. I believe it is intended to be permanent
          so not a good answer if you plan to revert to printing from type. I have
          raised rollers by taping strips of cardboard to the tracks with black
          electrical tape. Masking tape is pretty thin and has an irregular surface
          so I would not think it would be as good.

          You might also want to consider some sort of roller bearers locked into your
          chase. 18 point brass rule is usually recommended but wood rule or
          miscellaneous wood border or even type would work. I have resorted to this
          because my tracks are badly worn. The bearers also may need to be raised.
          I would suggest using a cardstock underlay.

          I am in process of working out a similar roller bulge problem working with
          photopolymer plates on my handpress and will report back when I have reached
          a satisfactory solution. My initial finding has been that type-high roller
          bearers result in the roller bulge inking the shoulder of the plates.

          David



          -----Original Message----
          From: typetom@... [mailto:typetom@...]
          Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 2:18 PM
          To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] C&P Pilot with Base


          Hi,
          I tried to reply directly since I figured the answers I have are more for
          the
          direct questions than for the list, but it came back undeliverable. So I
          guess I'll send it to the whole list:

          Hi lalaura2@... (mijayoga1),
          Sounds to me like you may need a different base? I haven't tried the Boxcar
          base/system but I think they are for a shallower cut of polymer than I have
          been using. I use the steel backed polymer plate material from Gene
          Becker --
          there are several different thicknesses of plates available....

          But that doesn't answer your question about the Pilot. The roller contact
          height is not adjustable on the press except by adding masking tape to the
          tracks to raise them. On larger C&P presses you can get adjustable trucks
          (the little wheels the rollers ride on). Sometimes called MERTs for Morgan
          Expansion Roller Trucks, these are made of a rubber wheel, with a nut that
          can be tightened to squeeze the rubber into a different diameter. I don't
          think they ever made those for the Pilot, though. Fritz Klinke at NA
          Graphics
          (nagraph@... or 970-387-0212) sells the MERTs and replaceable
          rubber
          parts, so he would know.

          Only other possibility I can think is maybe you have the wrong size metal
          trucks on the press, maybe from a Kelsey press or some other small press. Do
          the rollers hit correctly when you use type? If so (within a bit of masking
          tape adjustment), it ought to work for polymers with a base. You can check
          the height of the polymer plus base against metal type by turning them all
          face down so the bottoms will give you close edges to compare by feel.
          Should
          all be type-high.

          Good luck figuring it out! Tom

          Tom Parson
          Now It's Up To You Publications
          157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
          (303) 777-8951
          http://members.aol.com/typetom


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        • Fritz Klinke
          The tape we sell for raising the rail height is removable, but it is a hard plastic with a very effective adhesive so that the tape will not deform as will
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 3, 2002
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            The tape we sell for raising the rail height is removable, but it is a hard
            plastic with a very effective adhesive so that the tape will not deform as
            will masking tape or electrician's tape, both of which are stop-gap measures
            at best. The bed rails have to be clean and free of oil and grease.

            I personally think, that besides having the bed rails in the correct height
            ratio to the rollers to be at type high, assuming the material being printed
            is also type high, that the condition of the inking rollers is most
            critical. We have rollers from platens, cylinders, Vandercooks coming in our
            shop on a daily basis. It appears that most printers run their rollers into
            the ground before they accept the fact that the roller is shot and has to be
            replaced. We furnish new cores on most of the platen press rollers except
            Kluge and Heidelberg, as new cores are straight and true, and used ones tend
            to be warped. This is picked up on the finishing equipment in a roller shop
            where the final grind is done on what is essentially a lathe, and rollers to
            be true have to have concentric cores. Rollers swell, shrink, and do all
            sorts of things over their life span, all of which is affected by the type
            of solvent used, the size and type of material being inked, temperature in
            the shop, press speed, etc.

            Fritz Klinke, NA Graphics
            1314 Greene Street, P.O. Box 467
            Silverton, Colorado 81433 USA
            970-387-0212, fax 970-387-0127
            nagraph@...

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "David Goodrich" <davidgoodrich@...>
            To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 2:16 PM
            Subject: RE: [PPLetterpress] C&P Pilot with Base


            > Tom,
            > I for one appreciated having your comments sent to the list as I too have
            > been plagued by similar inking problems (for other reasons) on my
            Columbian
            > No. 2.
            >
            > The height of the printing surface over the shoulder of a photopolymer
            plate
            > is much less than with type so that roller bulge can ink the shoulder very
            > easily. The real answer is probably a harder roller but few of us are
            going
            > to have a selection to choose from. The alternative is to raise the
            roller
            > above its normal level for type. NA Graphics sells a special tape to
            apply
            > to roller tracks for this purpose. I believe it is intended to be
            permanent
            > so not a good answer if you plan to revert to printing from type. I have
            > raised rollers by taping strips of cardboard to the tracks with black
            > electrical tape. Masking tape is pretty thin and has an irregular surface
            > so I would not think it would be as good.
          • Silver MayKitten
            I have two heights of Lexan base; .850 for my plastic based .065 mylar backed plates, and .750 for my metal backed .165 plates. An allowance of .003 is
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 4, 2002
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              I have two heights of Lexan base; .850" for my plastic based .065"
              mylar backed plates, and .750" for my metal backed .165" plates. An
              allowance of .003" is made for the mounting tape.

              Furniture is usually .625 or 16 MM high; slugs and leads being two
              heights, low and ludlow, the measurements of which excape me at the
              moment.

              SMK
              --- mijayoga1 <lalaura2@...> wrote:
              > Hi, I have a problem. I bought a Boxcar base from Boxcar Press but
              > my
              > rollers on my C&P pilot are hitting the entire base not just the
              > image
              > on the plate I put on it. Are rollers adjustable on a C&P pilot?
              >
              > What is the exact height measurement of furniture, leading, etc? It
              > seems that the base is just a weeensy bit higher than the base of my
              > type which I used to measure it against....
              >
              > Thanks
              >
              >
              >


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