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Making your own cuts

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  • geneerenee
    I was wondering everyone s thoughts on making your own cuts - in other words - taking unmounted zincs and mounting them on wood or lead? Does anyone do that
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 18, 2005
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      I was wondering everyone's thoughts on making your own cuts - in
      other words - taking unmounted zincs and mounting them on wood or
      lead? Does anyone do that or is it too much trouble, expense etc.
    • Gary Mordhorst
      Hi, I tried doing some acid etching in zinc and in copper. I was unable to get a satisfactory amount of relief, and the etching acids are really dangerous. I
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 18, 2005
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        Hi,

        I tried doing some acid etching in zinc and in copper. I was unable to
        get a satisfactory amount of relief, and the etching acids are really
        dangerous. I have gone to photopolymer and have had good success with
        it.

        Best,

        Gary Mordhorst
        AccuColor Plus, Inc.
        www.accucolor.com

        Conventional offset Digital offset Contemporary
        letterpress





        On Feb 18, 2005, at 4:19 PM, geneerenee wrote:

        >
        >
        > I was wondering everyone's thoughts on making your own cuts - in
        > other words - taking unmounted zincs and mounting them on wood or
        > lead?  Does anyone do that or is it too much trouble, expense etc.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
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      • Gerald Lange
        Hello Well, there are a couple of problems. I was recently reading Heidelberg s _Hints for the Pressman_ and noted that one of the first things mentioned in
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 18, 2005
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          Hello

          Well, there are a couple of problems.

          I was recently reading Heidelberg's _Hints for the Pressman_ and noted
          that one of the first things mentioned in regard to plates is the use
          of a metal base. And by this I assume they mean a patent base with
          registration and lockdown hooks/jaws, such as a honeycomb or the older
          diagonal groove bases. The use of wood as a base, whether it be for
          photomechanical engravings or photopolymer, is just not a good idea.
          Especially for the latter. Any kind of possible compression or
          variance between the printing surface and the bed of the press is
          problematic if you expect precision in your presswork.

          I am also reading _Letterpress Platemaking_ by Wallis and Cannon. From
          that I can readily see that the production of photomechanical
          engravings is a VERY high-end technical process (especially at the
          finer points level of it, which is likely not practiced anymore) and
          unlike photopolymer, there is literally no entry level access.

          I don't know much about various printmaking processes in this regard
          but if careful preparation of the metal surface and subsurface relief
          is undertaken, and a suitable base can be found, I suspect it would be
          possible, but the end result would have to be quite dramatic, much
          more so than is currently possible with photopolymer, to make it worth
          the while.

          Gerald

          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "geneerenee" <dusbny@m...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > I was wondering everyone's thoughts on making your own cuts - in
          > other words - taking unmounted zincs and mounting them on wood or
          > lead? Does anyone do that or is it too much trouble, expense etc.
        • mike.jacobs
          Gerald, I have a mounting base supplied by Heidelberg which is made of wood with a magnetic plastic top surface. Steel backed photopolimer will adhere by
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 19, 2005
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            Gerald,
            I have a mounting base supplied by Heidelberg which is made of wood with a
            magnetic plastic top surface. Steel backed photopolimer will adhere by
            magnetic force and remains perfectly rigid. Since of course just falls off.
            Mike at the Cockleshell Press, England
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
            To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 6:21 AM
            Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Making your own cuts


            |
            |
            |
            | Hello
            |
            | Well, there are a couple of problems.
            |
            | I was recently reading Heidelberg's _Hints for the Pressman_ and noted
            | that one of the first things mentioned in regard to plates is the use
            | of a metal base. And by this I assume they mean a patent base with
            | registration and lockdown hooks/jaws, such as a honeycomb or the older
            | diagonal groove bases. The use of wood as a base, whether it be for
            | photomechanical engravings or photopolymer, is just not a good idea.
            | Especially for the latter. Any kind of possible compression or
            | variance between the printing surface and the bed of the press is
            | problematic if you expect precision in your presswork.
            |
            | I am also reading _Letterpress Platemaking_ by Wallis and Cannon. From
            | that I can readily see that the production of photomechanical
            | engravings is a VERY high-end technical process (especially at the
            | finer points level of it, which is likely not practiced anymore) and
            | unlike photopolymer, there is literally no entry level access.
            |
            | I don't know much about various printmaking processes in this regard
            | but if careful preparation of the metal surface and subsurface relief
            | is undertaken, and a suitable base can be found, I suspect it would be
            | possible, but the end result would have to be quite dramatic, much
            | more so than is currently possible with photopolymer, to make it worth
            | the while.
            |
            | Gerald
            |
            | --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "geneerenee" <dusbny@m...> wrote:
            | >
            | >
            | > I was wondering everyone's thoughts on making your own cuts - in
            | > other words - taking unmounted zincs and mounting them on wood or
            | > lead? Does anyone do that or is it too much trouble, expense etc.
            |
            |
            |
            |
            |
            |
            |
            |
            |
            |
            | Yahoo! Groups Links
            |
            |
            |
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          • mike.jacobs
            ooops, my spell checker changed zinc to since Mike at the Cockleshell Press, England ... From: mike.jacobs To:
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 19, 2005
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              ooops, my spell checker changed 'zinc' to 'since'
              Mike at the Cockleshell Press, England
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "mike.jacobs" <mike.jacobs@...>
              To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 9:10 AM
              Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Making your own cuts


              |
              | Gerald,
              | I have a mounting base supplied by Heidelberg which is made of wood with a
              | magnetic plastic top surface. Steel backed photopolymer will adhere by
              | magnetic force and remains perfectly rigid. Since of course just falls
              off.
              | Mike at the Cockleshell Press, England
              | ----- Original Message -----
              | From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
              | To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
              | Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 6:21 AM
              | Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Making your own cuts
              |
              |
              | |
              | |
              | |
              | | Hello
              | |
              | | Well, there are a couple of problems.
              | |
              | | I was recently reading Heidelberg's _Hints for the Pressman_ and noted
              | | that one of the first things mentioned in regard to plates is the use
              | | of a metal base. And by this I assume they mean a patent base with
              | | registration and lockdown hooks/jaws, such as a honeycomb or the older
              | | diagonal groove bases. The use of wood as a base, whether it be for
              | | photomechanical engravings or photopolymer, is just not a good idea.
              | | Especially for the latter. Any kind of possible compression or
              | | variance between the printing surface and the bed of the press is
              | | problematic if you expect precision in your presswork.
              | |
              | | I am also reading _Letterpress Platemaking_ by Wallis and Cannon. From
              | | that I can readily see that the production of photomechanical
              | | engravings is a VERY high-end technical process (especially at the
              | | finer points level of it, which is likely not practiced anymore) and
              | | unlike photopolymer, there is literally no entry level access.
              | |
              | | I don't know much about various printmaking processes in this regard
              | | but if careful preparation of the metal surface and subsurface relief
              | | is undertaken, and a suitable base can be found, I suspect it would be
              | | possible, but the end result would have to be quite dramatic, much
              | | more so than is currently possible with photopolymer, to make it worth
              | | the while.
              | |
              | | Gerald
              | |
              | | --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "geneerenee" <dusbny@m...> wrote:
              | | >
              | | >
              | | > I was wondering everyone's thoughts on making your own cuts - in
              | | > other words - taking unmounted zincs and mounting them on wood or
              | | > lead? Does anyone do that or is it too much trouble, expense etc.
              | |
              | |
              | |
              | |
              | |
              | |
              | |
              | |
              | |
              | |
              | | Yahoo! Groups Links
              | |
              | |
              | |
              | |
              | |
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              | Yahoo! Groups Links
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            • Gerald Lange
              Mike Is Heidelberg still supplying these? Do you have the specs? or contact info? What does since of course just falls off mean? Gerald
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 19, 2005
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                Mike

                Is Heidelberg still supplying these? Do you have the specs? or contact info?

                What does "since of course just falls off" mean?

                Gerald

                mike.jacobs wrote:

                >Gerald,
                >I have a mounting base supplied by Heidelberg which is made of wood with a
                >magnetic plastic top surface. Steel backed photopolimer will adhere by
                >magnetic force and remains perfectly rigid. Since of course just falls off.
                >Mike at the Cockleshell Press, England
                >----- Original Message -----
                >From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
                >To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                >Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 6:21 AM
                >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Making your own cuts
                >
                >
                >|
                >|
                >|
                >| Hello
                >|
                >| Well, there are a couple of problems.
                >|
                >| I was recently reading Heidelberg's _Hints for the Pressman_ and noted
                >| that one of the first things mentioned in regard to plates is the use
                >| of a metal base. And by this I assume they mean a patent base with
                >| registration and lockdown hooks/jaws, such as a honeycomb or the older
                >| diagonal groove bases. The use of wood as a base, whether it be for
                >| photomechanical engravings or photopolymer, is just not a good idea.
                >| Especially for the latter. Any kind of possible compression or
                >| variance between the printing surface and the bed of the press is
                >| problematic if you expect precision in your presswork.
                >|
                >| I am also reading _Letterpress Platemaking_ by Wallis and Cannon. From
                >| that I can readily see that the production of photomechanical
                >| engravings is a VERY high-end technical process (especially at the
                >| finer points level of it, which is likely not practiced anymore) and
                >| unlike photopolymer, there is literally no entry level access.
                >|
                >| I don't know much about various printmaking processes in this regard
                >| but if careful preparation of the metal surface and subsurface relief
                >| is undertaken, and a suitable base can be found, I suspect it would be
                >| possible, but the end result would have to be quite dramatic, much
                >| more so than is currently possible with photopolymer, to make it worth
                >| the while.
                >|
                >| Gerald
                >|
                >| --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "geneerenee" <dusbny@m...> wrote:
                >| >
                >| >
                >| > I was wondering everyone's thoughts on making your own cuts - in
                >| > other words - taking unmounted zincs and mounting them on wood or
                >| > lead? Does anyone do that or is it too much trouble, expense etc.
                >|
                >|
                >|
                >|
                >|
                >|
                >|
                >|
                >|
                >|
                >| Yahoo! Groups Links
                >|
                >|
                >|
                >|
                >|
                >|
                >|
                >|
                >
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                >
                >
                >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers.
                >At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
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                >--------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links
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              • Gerald Lange
                Ha, could be worse, I have to approve my own messages (I m self-moderated) and they still end up with word transpositions! Gerald ... wood with a
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 19, 2005
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                  Ha, could be worse, I have to approve my own messages (I'm
                  self-moderated) and they still end up with word transpositions!

                  Gerald

                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "mike.jacobs" <mike.jacobs@n...>
                  wrote:
                  > ooops, my spell checker changed 'zinc' to 'since'
                  > Mike at the Cockleshell Press, England
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "mike.jacobs" <mike.jacobs@n...>
                  > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 9:10 AM
                  > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Making your own cuts
                  >
                  >
                  > |
                  > | Gerald,
                  > | I have a mounting base supplied by Heidelberg which is made of
                  wood with a
                  > | magnetic plastic top surface. Steel backed photopolymer will adhere by
                  > | magnetic force and remains perfectly rigid. Since of course just falls
                  > off.
                  > | Mike at the Cockleshell Press, England
                  > |
                • mike.jacobs
                  Gerald, Sorry about the since. My spellchecker changed zinc to since. The piece I have is just over A4 a DIN size used here and on the Continent of Europe. The
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 19, 2005
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                    Gerald,
                    Sorry about the since. My spellchecker changed zinc to since.
                    The piece I have is just over A4 a DIN size used here and on the Continent
                    of Europe. The wood is a blockboard sandwiched between two layers of
                    plywood. The magnetic part is a polymer plastic which has magnetic iron
                    filings embedded in it. It is available in sheet form.
                    The cost was enormous but I bought it about 25 years ago.
                    Heidelberg have since long gone taken over by Linotype Hell and I am unsure
                    of the availability of the mountings.
                    Mike at the Cockleshell Press, England
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
                    To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 9:26 AM
                    Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Making your own cuts


                    |
                    |
                    | Mike
                    |
                    | Is Heidelberg still supplying these? Do you have the specs? or contact
                    info?
                    |
                    | What does "since of course just falls off" mean?
                    |
                    | Gerald
                    |
                    | mike.jacobs wrote:
                    |
                    | >Gerald,
                    | >I have a mounting base supplied by Heidelberg which is made of wood with
                    a
                    | >magnetic plastic top surface. Steel backed photopolymer will adhere by
                    | >magnetic force and remains perfectly rigid. Since of course just falls
                    off.
                    | >Mike at the Cockleshell Press, England
                    | >----- Original Message -----
                    | >From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
                    | >To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                    | >Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 6:21 AM
                    | >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Making your own cuts
                    | >
                    | >
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >| Hello
                    | >|
                    | >| Well, there are a couple of problems.
                    | >|
                    | >| I was recently reading Heidelberg's _Hints for the Pressman_ and noted
                    | >| that one of the first things mentioned in regard to plates is the use
                    | >| of a metal base. And by this I assume they mean a patent base with
                    | >| registration and lockdown hooks/jaws, such as a honeycomb or the older
                    | >| diagonal groove bases. The use of wood as a base, whether it be for
                    | >| photomechanical engravings or photopolymer, is just not a good idea.
                    | >| Especially for the latter. Any kind of possible compression or
                    | >| variance between the printing surface and the bed of the press is
                    | >| problematic if you expect precision in your presswork.
                    | >|
                    | >| I am also reading _Letterpress Platemaking_ by Wallis and Cannon. From
                    | >| that I can readily see that the production of photomechanical
                    | >| engravings is a VERY high-end technical process (especially at the
                    | >| finer points level of it, which is likely not practiced anymore) and
                    | >| unlike photopolymer, there is literally no entry level access.
                    | >|
                    | >| I don't know much about various printmaking processes in this regard
                    | >| but if careful preparation of the metal surface and subsurface relief
                    | >| is undertaken, and a suitable base can be found, I suspect it would be
                    | >| possible, but the end result would have to be quite dramatic, much
                    | >| more so than is currently possible with photopolymer, to make it worth
                    | >| the while.
                    | >|
                    | >| Gerald
                    | >|
                    | >| --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "geneerenee" <dusbny@m...> wrote:
                    | >| >
                    | >| >
                    | >| > I was wondering everyone's thoughts on making your own cuts - in
                    | >| > other words - taking unmounted zincs and mounting them on wood or
                    | >| > lead? Does anyone do that or is it too much trouble, expense etc.
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >| Yahoo! Groups Links
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >|
                    | >
                    | >
                    | >
                    | >
                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                    | >
                    | >
                    | >
                    | >
                    | >
                    | >
                    | >
                    | >
                    | >
                    | >
                    |
                    |
                    |
                    |
                    |
                    |
                    |
                    |
                    |
                    | Yahoo! Groups Links
                    |
                    |
                    |
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                    |
                  • Graham Moss
                    I have a book of original copper etchings ready to print. Not having printed these before, and seeing that the relief was a lot less than zincos I ve had made,
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 19, 2005
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                      I have a book of original copper etchings ready to print. Not having printed
                      these before, and seeing that the relief was a lot less than zincos I've had
                      made, I ran one to see how it was, and it was really excellent.

                      I assume the artist who made the etchings used wax to coat the copper and
                      then drew with a needle before etching with a nitric acid solution, but if
                      anyone needs me to get the exact information from the horses mouth, I'll be
                      pleased to ask the horse himself, but I suspect the information is readily
                      available in published manuals. To complete the text for the book he'll let
                      me have details of the technique he used to be printed in both the colophon
                      and the prospectus, but not needing it yet (having five other books in line
                      to print before we get to this one) I've not asked for that text.

                      As for zincos - here there is an extra charge to have them mounted type
                      high, and since having the base in house I've stopped ordering mounted
                      blocks. An MDF base that suits your chase can be used time and time again
                      with double-sided tape, and is ridiculously cheap. No sense in my spending
                      someone else's time getting something done for me that I can easily do
                      myself. I should add that I have never printed computor-generated text from
                      a zinco, but only use zincos to reproduce line drawings or handwriting.


                      Graham Moss
                      Incline Press
                      36 Bow Street
                      Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                      (44) 0161 627 1966
                      http://www.inclinepress.com
                    • Katie Harper
                      I¹m curious about this thread, the one about using ones own cuts and how to mount them, etc. I often use wood mounted plates, including hand carved linoleum
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 19, 2005
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                        I¹m curious about this thread, the one about using ones own cuts and how to
                        mount them, etc.

                        I often use wood mounted plates, including hand carved linoleum cuts, with
                        good results. Gerald is right: the setup for making REAL photoengravings (ie
                        halftones) on zinc or copper is complicated. I seem to remember from my long
                        ago research into this that the machines used to make metal halftones have a
                        way of etching the plate so that the dot is actually is smaller on the
                        printing surface than it is toward the base...

                        However, I experimented with photoengraving as an undergraduate, when I made
                        some photo zinc halftones using a straight etching process on photo
                        sensitive plates. Normally, this etching process is for intaglio plates
                        where the ink is below the surface of the plate. My results were not
                        perfect, but quite good considering the circumstances and the greenness of
                        the operator, and actually, the flaws in the plate enhanced the expressive
                        idea behind the content of the book for which I produced the images.

                        In another more recent case, I was printing a commercial job where the
                        polymer plate was slightly too long for my metal base. I picked up a piece
                        of mounted linoleum (storebought lino blocks, at least some brands, can
                        substitute as a workable polymer base) that I keep around the shop for
                        emergencies and stuck it under the unsupported polymer. I never though this
                        would work, but one does desperate things sometimes. Anyway, I was amazed
                        that I could not see any difference between the two sections of the plate.
                        Saved!

                        Of course, experimental work is probably not going to be useful for fine
                        press commercial work, but one can get very interesting results nonetheless
                        depending on how critical the final prints have to be.

                        I¹m now experimenting with inkjet imagery and letterpress type. Way fun!

                        Katie Harper
                        Ars Brevis Press
                        Www.arsbrevispress.com



                        on 2/19/05 7:06 AM, Graham Moss at kwhalen.incline@... wrote:

                        > I have a book of original copper etchings ready to print. Not having printed
                        > these before, and seeing that the relief was a lot less than zincos I've had
                        > made, I ran one to see how it was, and it was really excellent.
                        >
                        > I assume the artist who made the etchings used wax to coat the copper and
                        > then drew with a needle before etching with a nitric acid solution, but if
                        > anyone needs me to get the exact information from the horses mouth, I'll be
                        > pleased to ask the horse himself, but I suspect the information is readily
                        > available in published manuals. To complete the text for the book he'll let
                        > me have details of the technique he used to be printed in both the colophon
                        > and the prospectus, but not needing it yet (having five other books in line
                        > to print before we get to this one) I've not asked for that text.
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Tim Honnor
                        Gerald: I have not been following your correspondence on this matter in depth but you might like to know that most engraved plates (cfor
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 21, 2005
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                          Gerald:
                          I have not been following your correspondence on this matter in depth
                          but you might like to know that most engraved plates (cfor
                          dioestamping/engraving) are no longer produced by "hand engravers" We
                          use a process, a bit like polimer plate making, to etch out intaglio
                          designs onto copper. The negatives (reverse reading emulsion side up)
                          are laid down on the pre-sentitised copper and subjected to UV light.
                          The plates are then etched in an acid bath. We have hand engravers who
                          still do beautiful hand engraving (still the best) and often finish of
                          the etched plates by hand. The detail that can be achieved by these
                          etched plates is amazing. I believe that in the USA there are NO hand
                          engravers left so presumably Cranes would do all their plates this way.
                          Best wishes from Scotland.
                          Tim Honnor
                          On 19 Feb 2005, at 09:26, Gerald Lange wrote:

                          >
                          > Mike
                          >
                          > Is Heidelberg still supplying these? Do you have the specs? or
                          > contact info?
                          >
                          > What does "since of course just falls off" mean?
                          >
                          > Gerald
                          >
                          > mike.jacobs wrote:
                          >
                          > >Gerald,
                          > >I have a mounting base supplied by Heidelberg which is made of wood
                          > with a
                          > >magnetic plastic top surface. Steel backed photopolimer will adhere
                          > by
                          > >magnetic force and remains perfectly rigid. Since of course just
                          > falls off.
                          > >Mike at the Cockleshell Press, England
                          > >----- Original Message -----
                          > >From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
                          > >To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                          > >Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 6:21 AM
                          > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Making your own cuts
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >|
                          > >|
                          > >|
                          > >| Hello
                          > >|
                          > >| Well, there are a couple of problems.
                          > >|
                          > >| I was recently reading Heidelberg's _Hints for the Pressman_ and
                          > noted
                          > >| that one of the first things mentioned in regard to plates is the
                          > use
                          > >| of a metal base. And by this I assume they mean a patent base with
                          > >| registration and lockdown hooks/jaws, such as a honeycomb or the
                          > older
                          > >| diagonal groove bases. The use of wood as a base, whether it be for
                          > >| photomechanical engravings or photopolymer, is just not a good
                          > idea.
                          > >| Especially for the latter. Any kind of possible compression or
                          > >| variance between the printing surface and the bed of the press is
                          > >| problematic if you expect precision in your presswork.
                          > >|
                          > >| I am also reading _Letterpress Platemaking_ by Wallis and Cannon.
                          > From
                          > >| that I can readily see that the production of photomechanical
                          > >| engravings is a VERY high-end technical process (especially at the
                          > >| finer points level of it, which is likely not practiced anymore)
                          > and
                          > >| unlike photopolymer, there is literally no entry level access.
                          > >|
                          > >| I don't know much about various printmaking processes in this
                          > regard
                          > >| but if careful preparation of the metal surface and subsurface
                          > relief
                          > >| is undertaken, and a suitable base can be found, I suspect it
                          > would be
                          > >| possible, but the end result would have to be quite dramatic, much
                          > >| more so than is currently possible with photopolymer, to make it
                          > worth
                          > >| the while.
                          > >|
                          > >| Gerald
                          > >|
                          > >| --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "geneerenee" <dusbny@m...>
                          > wrote:
                          > >| >
                          > >| >
                          > >| > I was wondering everyone's thoughts on making your own cuts - in
                          > >| > other words - taking unmounted zincs and mounting them on wood or
                          > >| > lead?  Does anyone do that or is it too much trouble, expense
                          > etc.
                          > >|
                          > >|
                          > >|
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                          Tim Honnor
                          Piccolo Press - Harbour Street - Nairn - Scotland - IV12 4PG
                          tel: +44 (0)1667 454508 fax: +44 (0)1667 454509
                          To learn more about Piccolo Press visit our web site:
                          http://www.piccolopress.co.uk
                        • Silver MayKitten
                          You can also buy presensitised steel plates for longer runs. The only problem is that you gave to conive to get Agfa, the maker, to import them for you. The
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 21, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            You can also buy presensitised steel plates for longer runs.
                            The only problem is that you gave to conive to get Agfa, the
                            maker, to import them for you. The problem is that even the
                            best chemical engravings require some hand rectification after
                            being made, and that takes a little skill. I can do a fairly
                            good job, but through disuse, my skills are not what they
                            should be.

                            If you would become a good engraver, I would strongly suggest
                            learning cake decorating first. The mistakes can be easily
                            repaired by scooping off the mistake and resurfacing the base
                            frosting, and you can eat the worst errors.

                            Once you learn to grave a realistic looking rose, you can call
                            yourself an engraver.

                            MaiK�tzchen
                            --- Tim Honnor <tim@...> wrote:

                            >
                            > Gerald:
                            > I have not been following your correspondence on this matter
                            > in depth
                            > but you might like to know that most engraved plates (cfor
                            > dioestamping/engraving) are no longer produced by "hand
                            > engravers" We
                            > use a process, a bit like polimer plate making, to etch out
                            > intaglio
                            > designs onto copper. The negatives (reverse reading emulsion
                            > side up)
                            > are laid down on the pre-sentitised copper and subjected to
                            > UV light.
                            > The plates are then etched in an acid bath. We have hand
                            > engravers who
                            > still do beautiful hand engraving (still the best) and often
                            > finish of
                            > the etched plates by hand. The detail that can be achieved by
                            > these
                            > etched plates is amazing. I believe that in the USA there are
                            > NO hand
                            > engravers left so presumably Cranes would do all their plates
                            > this way.
                            > Best wishes from Scotland.
                            > Tim Honnor
                            > On 19 Feb 2005, at 09:26, Gerald Lange wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > > Mike
                            > >
                            > > Is Heidelberg still supplying these? Do you have the
                            > specs? or
                            > > contact info?
                            > >
                            > > What does "since of course just falls off" mean?
                            > >
                            > > Gerald
                            > >
                            > > mike.jacobs wrote:
                            > >
                            > > >Gerald,
                            > > >I have a mounting base supplied by Heidelberg which is
                            > made of wood
                            > > with a
                            > > >magnetic plastic top surface. Steel backed photopolimer
                            > will adhere
                            > > by
                            > > >magnetic force and remains perfectly rigid. Since of
                            > course just
                            > > falls off.
                            > > >Mike at the Cockleshell Press, England
                            > > >----- Original Message -----
                            > > >From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
                            > > >To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > >Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 6:21 AM
                            > > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Making your own cuts
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >|
                            > > >|
                            > > >|
                            > > >| Hello
                            > > >|
                            > > >| Well, there are a couple of problems.
                            > > >|
                            > > >| I was recently reading Heidelberg's _Hints for the
                            > Pressman_ and
                            > > noted
                            > > >| that one of the first things mentioned in regard to
                            > plates is the
                            > > use
                            > > >| of a metal base. And by this I assume they mean a
                            > patent base with
                            > > >| registration and lockdown hooks/jaws, such as a
                            > honeycomb or the
                            > > older
                            > > >| diagonal groove bases. The use of wood as a base,
                            > whether it be for
                            > > >| photomechanical engravings or photopolymer, is just not
                            > a good
                            > > idea.
                            > > >| Especially for the latter. Any kind of possible
                            > compression or
                            > > >| variance between the printing surface and the bed of
                            > the press is
                            > > >| problematic if you expect precision in your presswork.
                            > > >|
                            > > >| I am also reading _Letterpress Platemaking_ by Wallis
                            > and Cannon.
                            > > From
                            > > >| that I can readily see that the production of
                            > photomechanical
                            > > >| engravings is a VERY high-end technical process
                            > (especially at the
                            > > >| finer points level of it, which is likely not practiced
                            > anymore)
                            > > and
                            > > >| unlike photopolymer, there is literally no entry level
                            > access.
                            > > >|
                            > > >| I don't know much about various printmaking processes
                            > in this
                            > > regard
                            > > >| but if careful preparation of the metal surface and
                            > subsurface
                            > > relief
                            > > >| is undertaken, and a suitable base can be found, I
                            > suspect it
                            > > would be
                            > > >| possible, but the end result would have to be quite
                            > dramatic, much
                            > > >| more so than is currently possible with photopolymer,
                            > to make it
                            > > worth
                            > > >| the while.
                            > > >|
                            > > >| Gerald
                            > > >|
                            > > >| --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "geneerenee"
                            > <dusbny@m...>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > >| >
                            > > >| >
                            > > >| > I was wondering everyone's thoughts on making your
                            > own cuts - in
                            > > >| > other words - taking unmounted zincs and mounting
                            > them on wood or
                            > > >| > lead? Does anyone do that or is it too much trouble,
                            > expense
                            > > etc.
                            > > >|
                            > > >|
                            > > >|
                            > > >|
                            > > >|
                            > > >|
                            > > >|
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                            > > >|
                            > > >|
                            > > >| Yahoo! Groups Links
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                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            > > --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84%
                            > do not own
                            > > computers.
                            > > >At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
                            > > >http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/mFXtlB/TM
                            > >
                            > >
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                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/
                            > >
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                            > Terms of
                            > > Service.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > Tim Honnor
                            > Piccolo Press - Harbour Street - Nairn - Scotland - IV12
                            > 4PG
                            > tel: +44 (0)1667 454508 fax: +44 (0)1667 454509
                            > To learn more about Piccolo Press visit our web site:
                            > http://www.piccolopress.co.uk
                            >
                            >
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                            =====
                            Pagan, Pagan, what are you finding?
                            Yours is the road that winds lonely and far,
                            Strange are the shadows that round you come creeping,
                            Still through the clouds is the glint of a star!

                            From the book, Charge of the Goddess
                            BY: Doreen Valiente




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                          • Gerald Lange
                            Hi Tim I think I only made the one comment, about all I could muster I m afraid. I d suspect you are right. The kind of craftwork once expected in US industry
                            Message 13 of 15 , Feb 22, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Tim

                              I think I only made the one comment, about all I could muster I'm
                              afraid. I'd suspect you are right. The kind of craftwork once expected
                              in US industry has long disappeared (except for high-end mechanics I
                              would think) but that doesn't necessarily mean it is gone...

                              A young fellow from Europe visited me a long while back. He was a
                              stone cutter and could find no work in the US as the industry (he was
                              looking into gravestone work) no longer supported hand work. On the
                              other hand, there are hand stone carvers in the US; years afterward I
                              sponsored a workshop on it by Chris Stinehour at my shop. And I had my
                              hand at it. Quite amazing. Um, anyone want to buy some nice stone
                              cutting tools? :—)

                              The shift in the US is much more sublimated. It's an either or kind of
                              a thing. If you have a "disturbed" vision and want to pursue it fine
                              (and the best of luck to you sucker), if not, tow the line (and the
                              best of luck to you as well).

                              Gerald


                              > Gerald:
                              > I have not been following your correspondence on this matter in depth
                              > but you might like to know that most engraved plates (cfor
                              > dioestamping/engraving) are no longer produced by "hand engravers" We
                              > use a process, a bit like polimer plate making, to etch out intaglio
                              > designs onto copper. The negatives (reverse reading emulsion side up)
                              > are laid down on the pre-sentitised copper and subjected to UV light.
                              > The plates are then etched in an acid bath. We have hand engravers who
                              > still do beautiful hand engraving (still the best) and often finish of
                              > the etched plates by hand. The detail that can be achieved by these
                              > etched plates is amazing. I believe that in the USA there are NO hand
                              > engravers left so presumably Cranes would do all their plates this way.
                              > Best wishes from Scotland.
                              > Tim Honnor
                              > On 19 Feb 2005, at 09:26, Gerald Lange wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > > Mike
                              > >
                              > > Is Heidelberg still supplying these? Do you have the specs? or
                              > > contact info?
                              > >
                              > > What does "since of course just falls off" mean?
                              > >
                              > > Gerald
                              > >
                              > > mike.jacobs wrote:
                              > >
                              > > >Gerald,
                              > > >I have a mounting base supplied by Heidelberg which is made of
                              wood
                              > > with a
                              > > >magnetic plastic top surface. Steel backed photopolimer will
                              adhere
                              > > by
                              > > >magnetic force and remains perfectly rigid. Since of course just
                              > > falls off.
                              > > >Mike at the Cockleshell Press, England
                              > > >----- Original Message -----
                              > > >From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...>
                              > > >To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                              > > >Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 6:21 AM
                              > > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Making your own cuts
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >|
                              > > >|
                              > > >|
                              > > >| Hello
                              > > >|
                              > > >| Well, there are a couple of problems.
                              > > >|
                              > > >| I was recently reading Heidelberg's _Hints for the Pressman_ and
                              > > noted
                              > > >| that one of the first things mentioned in regard to plates is
                              the
                              > > use
                              > > >| of a metal base. And by this I assume they mean a patent base with
                              > > >| registration and lockdown hooks/jaws, such as a honeycomb or the
                              > > older
                              > > >| diagonal groove bases. The use of wood as a base, whether it
                              be for
                              > > >| photomechanical engravings or photopolymer, is just not a good
                              > > idea.
                              > > >| Especially for the latter. Any kind of possible compression or
                              > > >| variance between the printing surface and the bed of the press is
                              > > >| problematic if you expect precision in your presswork.
                              > > >|
                              > > >| I am also reading _Letterpress Platemaking_ by Wallis and
                              Cannon.
                              > > From
                              > > >| that I can readily see that the production of photomechanical
                              > > >| engravings is a VERY high-end technical process (especially at the
                              > > >| finer points level of it, which is likely not practiced anymore)
                              > > and
                              > > >| unlike photopolymer, there is literally no entry level access.
                              > > >|
                              > > >| I don't know much about various printmaking processes in this
                              > > regard
                              > > >| but if careful preparation of the metal surface and subsurface
                              > > relief
                              > > >| is undertaken, and a suitable base can be found, I suspect it
                              > > would be
                              > > >| possible, but the end result would have to be quite dramatic, much
                              > > >| more so than is currently possible with photopolymer, to make it
                              > > worth
                              > > >| the while.
                              > > >|
                              > > >| Gerald
                              > > >|
                              > > >| --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "geneerenee" <dusbny@m...>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > >| >
                              > > >| >
                              > > >| > I was wondering everyone's thoughts on making your own cuts - in
                              > > >| > other words - taking unmounted zincs and mounting them on
                              wood or
                              > > >| > lead? Does anyone do that or is it too much trouble, expense
                              > > etc.
                            • Fritz Klinke
                              There are still hand engravers in the US who do sculpted embossing dies, though not much for either copper or steel die engraving work, and steel die work
                              Message 14 of 15 , Feb 22, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                There are still hand engravers in the US who do "sculpted" embossing dies,
                                though not much for either copper or steel die engraving work, and steel die
                                work has suffered in the transition to computer generated type--the old match
                                plates, still available from Cronite, had very distinctive engraving styles not
                                copied anywhere else that I'm aware of, and a few engravers still use these
                                pantograph plates to produce dies. It's not all lost by any means, but severely
                                diminished from previous years. And I'd dearly love to hire a competent stone
                                mason for our restoration construction company. We have 2 current projects on
                                historic buildings requiring extensive stone work, though no angels, gargoyles,
                                or headstones.

                                Fritz

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
                                To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 1:55 AM
                                Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Making your own cuts





                                Hi Tim

                                I think I only made the one comment, about all I could muster I'm
                                afraid. I'd suspect you are right. The kind of craftwork once expected
                                in US industry has long disappeared (except for high-end mechanics I
                                would think) but that doesn't necessarily mean it is gone...

                                A young fellow from Europe visited me a long while back. He was a
                                stone cutter and could find no work in the US as the industry (he was
                                looking into gravestone work) no longer supported hand work. On the
                                other hand, there are hand stone carvers in the US; years afterward I
                                sponsored a workshop on it by Chris Stinehour at my shop. And I had my
                                hand at it. Quite amazing. Um, anyone want to buy some nice stone
                                cutting tools? :-)

                                The shift in the US is much more sublimated. It's an either or kind of
                                a thing. If you have a "disturbed" vision and want to pursue it fine
                                (and the best of luck to you sucker), if not, tow the line (and the
                                best of luck to you as well).

                                Gerald


                                > Gerald:
                                > I have not been following your correspondence on this matter in depth
                                > but you might like to know that most engraved plates (cfor
                                > dioestamping/engraving) are no longer produced by "hand engravers" We
                                > use a process, a bit like polimer plate making, to etch out intaglio
                                > designs onto copper. The negatives (reverse reading emulsion side up)
                                > are laid down on the pre-sentitised copper and subjected to UV light.
                                > The plates are then etched in an acid bath. We have hand engravers who
                                > still do beautiful hand engraving (still the best) and often finish of
                                > the etched plates by hand. The detail that can be achieved by these
                                > etched plates is amazing. I believe that in the USA there are NO hand
                                > engravers left so presumably Cranes would do all their plates this way.
                                > Best wishes from Scotland.
                                > Tim Honnor
                              • Gerald Lange
                                Don t know how I ever missed this but Anderson&Vreeland, who makes the Orbital photopolymer platemaking machines also makes zinc/magnesium processing machines.
                                Message 15 of 15 , Mar 5, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Don't know how I ever missed this but Anderson&Vreeland, who makes the
                                  Orbital photopolymer platemaking machines also makes zinc/magnesium
                                  processing machines. Be the first on your block...

                                  http://www.andersonvreeland.com/zinc_mag.htm

                                  Gerald

                                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Gary Mordhorst <gary@a...> wrote:
                                  > Hi,
                                  >
                                  > I tried doing some acid etching in zinc and in copper. I was unable to
                                  > get a satisfactory amount of relief, and the etching acids are really
                                  > dangerous. I have gone to photopolymer and have had good success with
                                  > it.
                                  >
                                  > Best,
                                  >
                                  > Gary Mordhorst
                                  > AccuColor Plus, Inc.
                                  > www.accucolor.com
                                  >
                                  > Conventional offset Digital offset Contemporary
                                  > letterpress
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On Feb 18, 2005, at 4:19 PM, geneerenee wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > I was wondering everyone's thoughts on making your own cuts - in
                                  > > other words - taking unmounted zincs and mounting them on wood or
                                  > > lead? Does anyone do that or is it too much trouble, expense etc.
                                  >
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