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Re: [PPLetterpress] Circular quads

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  • typetom@aol.com
    Hi Barb, One method is to put a strip of tape on the inside edge of the curve before you curve it, so the spacing at that edge stays tight. Then lock it with
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 10, 2005
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      Hi Barb,
      One method is to put a strip of tape on the inside edge of the curve before
      you curve it, so the spacing at that edge stays tight. Then lock it with normal
      lock-up pressure in the circular quads, adjusting the angles of the type as
      needed. I don't think you have to fill all the angled spaces that are left --
      as long as it holds.

      Tom Parson
      Now It's Up To You Publications
      157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
      (303) 777-8951
      http://members.aol.com/typetom


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Gerald Lange
      Tom and Barb I ve seen it also done this way with the tape: Double stick tape is put on the line of type that is in the composing stick. That way you can also
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 10, 2005
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        Tom and Barb

        I've seen it also done this way with the tape: Double stick tape is put
        on the line of type that is in the composing stick. That way you can
        also do whatever spacing finesse is required, and proof etc, before you
        attach to the quad material.

        Gerald

        typetom@... wrote:

        >Hi Barb,
        >One method is to put a strip of tape on the inside edge of the curve before
        >you curve it, so the spacing at that edge stays tight. Then lock it with normal
        >lock-up pressure in the circular quads, adjusting the angles of the type as
        >needed. I don't think you have to fill all the angled spaces that are left --
        >as long as it holds.
        >
        >Tom Parson
        >Now It's Up To You Publications
        >157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
        >(303) 777-8951
        >http://members.aol.com/typetom
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Regis Graden
        Barb, Circular quads are not the easiest things to use! I believe what you describe is the right course. Many articles have been written on the subject in
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 10, 2005
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          Barb,

          Circular quads are not the easiest things to use! I believe what you describe is the right course. Many articles have been written on the subject in "Inland Printer". I have a run of these great magazines through the '20s and '30s. If Gerald does not respond on exactly how to use them, I'll try to thumb through some issues and find some information for you.

          Good Luck,

          Regis

          barb tetenbaum <btetenbaum@...> wrote:
          I realize that you, dear reader, are
          digitally-inclined, but I also know that this is an
          experienced group of letterpress printers (and a
          smaller discussion group, thank god!), so I'm braving
          a hot type question: Do any of you have instructions,
          or know of instructions that are published, on how to
          use circular quads. I'm trying to set 14pt. type in a
          nice arch-shape. I have sets of metal "circular quads"
          which have different arc configurations. I'm assuming
          that you lay your type so that each piece of type is
          oriented along the arcs with as much contact on the
          top and bottom edges. The final lock-up is probably a
          combination of pressure and convenience. I've been
          using bits of mat board and old bent coppers to fine
          tune and fill in......what do you think? Anything
          published on this technique?
          Does anyone have one of these locked up that they
          could create a jpeg image to send me? I've had no luck
          in my own personal library or our school's. Thanks for
          any help you can offer.
          -Barb Tetenbaum (who very much enjoyed the rants
          written in response to my "Vandy"comment last month)

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Gerald Lange
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 10, 2005
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            :)


            >If Gerald does not respond on exactly how to use them, I'll try to thumb through some issues and find some information for you.
            >
            >Good Luck,
            >
            >Regis
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Kathleen Whalen
            There are two assumptions for successful use: that you have both parts, and that the ends of the printed line within the quads are blank - space is good. First
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 11, 2005
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              There are two assumptions for successful use: that you have both parts, and
              that the ends of the printed line within the quads are blank - space is
              good.

              First set your line with the spaces and hairspaces you would expect to use,
              all in the stick. While still in the stick, run a piece of cellotape along
              the type, covering the nick.

              Slide the type out and stand it upright on the stone.

              Slide the bottom half of the quad into place, so the type fits the curve
              with the sellotape captured between the type and the quad.

              Slide the top part into place. Pick it up as if it were six lines of type,
              and check that it holds tight.

              Lock in the chase in the standard way, with furniture on all four sides. The
              pressure of normal lock-up has to hold the type in place. No problem on a
              cylinder press, but with a platen there is some little risk that letters
              will adjust themselves out of the chase - you might think candle-wax or
              plasticine would be a solution, but tighter lock-up is the real answer.

              Problems to look out for: if the type is larger than 12 point you may have
              to re-set with spacing adjusted to meet your discerning eye. They work best
              visually with no adjustment needed when using type 14pt and below; the metal
              is not particularly hard, and they do get damaged relatively easily, but
              considering the amount of use they have, they should last a long time; I
              don't think italic type ever looks good in a curve, but you might think it
              does. Full caps works visually sometimes. Rely on your eye!

              Bon voyage!

              Graham Moss
              Incline Press
              36 Bow Street
              Oldham OL1 1SJ England
              (44) 0161 627 1966
              http://www.inclinepress.com
            • Ludwig M. Solzen
              ... Nothing new, but perhaps some here are still not familiar with TeX and its huge possibilities. Did you want to set some type in a circular pattern, you
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 11, 2005
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                > “digitally-inclined” indeed.

                Nothing new, but perhaps some here are still not familiar with TeX and its
                huge possibilities. Did you want to set some type in a circular pattern, you
                say? For a sample (digital of course!) just click
                http://www.tug.org/texshowcase/ShowcaseCircular.pdf (attention: it’s pdf!).

                I agree that the default faces (Computer Modern and some typewriter
                companion) are not the most splendid things in fontworld, and not in the
                least fitted for use in fine digital letterpress printing; also the white
                space after the full-stop is a typo-historical and aesthetical mistake,
                which TeX’s developer, Dr Knuth, took over from the unthoughtful 1970s
                typographic standards in the US—but look at the beautifully spaced letters,
                the over-all evenness of colour...

                Digital typography has been the lesser of handset text, for years, but I am
                fully convinced that graphic software is becoming unequalled, more and more.
                And I don't even speak about it's time-saving advantages: if you know about
                e.g. the implementation of the URW micro-typographic features into PDF-TeX
                and Adobe InDesign, you will quickly realize that not even Gutenberg with
                all his patience and the help of hundreds of the best punchcutters and
                textsetters, could have made better text-settings.

                Ludwig

                ________________________________________
                Van: Kathleen Whalen [mailto:kwhalen.incline@...]
                Verzonden: vrijdag 11 februari 2005 10:18
                Aan: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                Onderwerp: Re: [PPLetterpress] Circular quads

                There are two assumptions for successful use: that you have both parts, and
                that the ends of the printed line within the quads are blank - space is
                good.

                First set your line with the spaces and hairspaces you would expect to use,
                all in the stick. While still in the stick, run a piece of cellotape along
                the type, covering the nick.

                Slide the type out and stand it upright on the stone.

                Slide the bottom half of the quad into place, so the type fits the curve
                with the sellotape captured between the type and the quad.

                Slide the top part into place. Pick it up as if it were six lines of type,
                and check that it holds tight.

                Lock in the chase in the standard way, with furniture on all four sides. The
                pressure of normal lock-up has to hold the type in place. No problem on a
                cylinder press, but with a platen there is some little risk that letters
                will adjust themselves out of the chase - you might think candle-wax or
                plasticine would be a solution, but tighter lock-up is the real answer.

                Problems to look out for: if the type is larger than 12 point you may have
                to re-set with spacing adjusted to meet your discerning eye. They work best
                visually with no adjustment needed when using type 14pt and below; the metal
                is not particularly hard, and they do get damaged relatively easily, but
                considering the amount of use they have, they should last a long time; I
                don't think italic type ever looks good in a curve, but you might think it
                does. Full caps works visually sometimes. Rely on your eye!

                Bon voyage!

                Graham Moss
                Incline Press
                36 Bow Street
                Oldham OL1 1SJ  England
                (44) 0161 627 1966
                http://www.inclinepress.com





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              • Michael T. Metz
                And for those who like a challenge, the learning curve is a little steeper. I use LaTeX (now using a MiKTeX installation) and agree with Ludwig on its
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 11, 2005
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                  And for those who like a challenge, the learning curve is a little
                  steeper. I use LaTeX (now using a MiKTeX installation) and agree
                  with Ludwig on its capabilities; however, do plan to spend a little
                  time getting to know it. It's strength is first, like Ludwig mentions,
                  its algorithms for setting paragraphs of text that avoid rivers and
                  like distractions and second in allowing one to have greater control
                  over the typesetting than with other programs. To gain this control,
                  however, one needs to know how to control (learning the syntax, and
                  understanding the way the program integrates itself).

                  Lugwig likely knows this but did not mention that one is not
                  limited to using Computer Modern; but again this is trickier. I now
                  use Perpetua, but would not like to again go through what it took to
                  install it.

                  Mike

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Ludwig M. Solzen [mailto:ppletterpress@...]
                  Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 6:53 AM
                  To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [PPLetterpress] Circular quads



                  > “digitally-inclined” indeed.

                  Nothing new, but perhaps some here are still not familiar with TeX and its
                  huge possibilities. Did you want to set some type in a circular pattern, you
                  say? For a sample (digital of course!) just click
                  http://www.tug.org/texshowcase/ShowcaseCircular.pdf (attention: it’s pdf!).

                  I agree that the default faces (Computer Modern and some typewriter
                  companion) are not the most splendid things in fontworld, and not in the
                  least fitted for use in fine digital letterpress printing; also the white
                  space after the full-stop is a typo-historical and aesthetical mistake,
                  which TeX’s developer, Dr Knuth, took over from the unthoughtful 1970s
                  typographic standards in the US—but look at the beautifully spaced letters,
                  the over-all evenness of colour...
                • Charles Jones
                  ... Perhaps someone on the list could recommend a good Cyrillic font that will work on Mac os. Charles Jones LaNana Creek Press Nacogdoches, Texas
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 11, 2005
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                    On Feb 11, 2005, at 6:53 AM, Ludwig M. Solzen wrote:

                    >
                    >> “digitally-inclined” indeed.
                    >
                    >
                    > I agree that the default faces (Computer Modern and some typewriter
                    > companion) are not the most splendid things in fontworld,

                    Perhaps someone on the list could recommend a good Cyrillic font that
                    will work on Mac os.
                    Charles Jones


                    LaNana Creek Press
                    Nacogdoches, Texas
                  • Ludwig M. Solzen
                    ... Imho one of the core problems of present day font production: the absence of a complete glyph set, for all-round typographical use. Most fonts come only
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 11, 2005
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                      > Perhaps someone on the list could recommend a good Cyrillic font that
                      > will work on Mac os


                      Imho one of the core problems of present day font production: the absence of
                      a complete glyph set, for all-round typographical use. Most fonts come only
                      with the standard western alphabet (not even with all accents needed for
                      setting text in central European languages). So, we will have to content
                      ourselves with mixing different fonts...

                      I my regard you should, of course, combine fonts of the same face. And even
                      then, you will notice that the design of the Latin alphabet glyphs will not
                      match with that of the Cyrillic glyphs of the same face (strokes, serifs,
                      contrast and so forth). Be very careful in choosing the right fonts, even
                      when you stay with the same face.

                      In some OpenType edition of good fonts (e.g. several Adobe 'Pro's) you'll
                      find a complete Cyrillic alphabet. This is the case for Minion Pro and
                      Warnock Pro.

                      For my favourite, Bembo, there is alas no Cyrillic alphabet, not even a
                      Greek one, although Griffo cut several Greek alphabets for use in the Aldine
                      Officina. However (as I said on an earlier occasion), 'Cardo' will soon have
                      a Bembo-like Cyrillic and Greek alphabet.

                      It's a pity none of the resent Bodoni revivals have a Cyrillic alphabet, nor
                      Greek, although Bodoni cut these. The same goes for other much used, fine
                      faces.

                      If you would like to use Baskerville, I recommend Linotype's "Baskerville
                      Cyrillic".

                      *A lot* can be said on this subject!

                      Ludwig
                    • Charles Jones
                      Thank you very much for the information. I am working on a book that will have Russian and English language text renderings of poems along with lmages based
                      Message 10 of 12 , Feb 11, 2005
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                        Thank you very much for the information. I am working on a book that
                        will have Russian and English language text renderings of poems along
                        with lmages based on line drawings . I have Baskerville in foundry
                        type and could use it with Baskerville Cyrillic. Cheers, Charles Jones


                        On Feb 11, 2005, at 1:17 PM, Ludwig M. Solzen wrote:

                        >
                        >> Perhaps someone on the list could recommend a good Cyrillic font that
                        >> will work on Mac os
                        >
                        >
                        > Imho one of the core problems of present day font production: the
                        > absence of
                        > a complete glyph set, for all-round typographical use. Most fonts come
                        > only
                        > with the standard western alphabet (not even with all accents needed
                        > for
                        > setting text in central European languages). So, we will have to
                        > content
                        > ourselves with mixing different fonts...
                        >
                        > I my regard you should, of course, combine fonts of the same face. And
                        > even
                        > then, you will notice that the design of the Latin alphabet glyphs
                        > will not
                        > match with that of the Cyrillic glyphs of the same face (strokes,
                        > serifs,
                        > contrast and so forth). Be very careful in choosing the right fonts,
                        > even
                        > when you stay with the same face.
                        >
                        > In some OpenType edition of good fonts (e.g. several Adobe 'Pro's)
                        > you'll
                        > find a complete Cyrillic alphabet. This is the case for Minion Pro and
                        > Warnock Pro.
                        >
                        > For my favourite, Bembo, there is alas no Cyrillic alphabet, not even a
                        > Greek one, although Griffo cut several Greek alphabets for use in the
                        > Aldine
                        > Officina. However (as I said on an earlier occasion), 'Cardo' will
                        > soon have
                        > a Bembo-like Cyrillic and Greek alphabet.
                        >
                        > It's a pity none of the resent Bodoni revivals have a Cyrillic
                        > alphabet, nor
                        > Greek, although Bodoni cut these. The same goes for other much used,
                        > fine
                        > faces.
                        >
                        > If you would like to use Baskerville, I recommend Linotype's
                        > "Baskerville
                        > Cyrillic".
                        >
                        > *A lot* can be said on this subject!
                        >
                        > Ludwig
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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