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Circular quads

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  • barb tetenbaum
    I realize that you, dear reader, are digitally-inclined, but I also know that this is an experienced group of letterpress printers (and a smaller discussion
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 10, 2005
      I realize that you, dear reader, are
      digitally-inclined, but I also know that this is an
      experienced group of letterpress printers (and a
      smaller discussion group, thank god!), so I'm braving
      a hot type question: Do any of you have instructions,
      or know of instructions that are published, on how to
      use circular quads. I'm trying to set 14pt. type in a
      nice arch-shape. I have sets of metal "circular quads"
      which have different arc configurations. I'm assuming
      that you lay your type so that each piece of type is
      oriented along the arcs with as much contact on the
      top and bottom edges. The final lock-up is probably a
      combination of pressure and convenience. I've been
      using bits of mat board and old bent coppers to fine
      tune and fill in......what do you think? Anything
      published on this technique?
      Does anyone have one of these locked up that they
      could create a jpeg image to send me? I've had no luck
      in my own personal library or our school's. Thanks for
      any help you can offer.
      -Barb Tetenbaum (who very much enjoyed the rants
      written in response to my "Vandy"comment last month)
    • innererklang@aol.com
      Barb-- I do not know of any published articles on circular quads but I do know an expert on the matter--he is a bit of old school, doesn t own a computer,
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 10, 2005
        Barb--
        I do not know of any published articles on circular quads but I do know an
        expert on the matter--he is a bit of old school, doesn't own a computer, isn't
        psrt of this group, but I believe he would be willing to help you if you called
        or wrote him. His name is Richard Brilliante of Ding Batty Letter Press, 186
        Silver Spring St., Providence, RI 02904, 401.861.9887.
        He gave me my set of circular quads as a parting gift when I moved from
        Boston last year. I have only tried using them once. It really is a matter of
        patiently filling spaces with what ever fits, and once it is locked up you pray
        that you have the letter spacing right. Richard was a bit critical of my first
        effort, but, as I said , he is old school, very exacting and VERY critical of
        anything but kiss impression. He worked as a commercial printer for most of his
        life and tells me any job with the impression of the moment would have been
        sent back to do over.

        Mark Olson
        Innerer Klang Letterpress
        Asheville, NC


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • typetom@aol.com
        Hi Barb, One method is to put a strip of tape on the inside edge of the curve before you curve it, so the spacing at that edge stays tight. Then lock it with
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 10, 2005
          Hi Barb,
          One method is to put a strip of tape on the inside edge of the curve before
          you curve it, so the spacing at that edge stays tight. Then lock it with normal
          lock-up pressure in the circular quads, adjusting the angles of the type as
          needed. I don't think you have to fill all the angled spaces that are left --
          as long as it holds.

          Tom Parson
          Now It's Up To You Publications
          157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
          (303) 777-8951
          http://members.aol.com/typetom


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Gerald Lange
          Tom and Barb I ve seen it also done this way with the tape: Double stick tape is put on the line of type that is in the composing stick. That way you can also
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 10, 2005
            Tom and Barb

            I've seen it also done this way with the tape: Double stick tape is put
            on the line of type that is in the composing stick. That way you can
            also do whatever spacing finesse is required, and proof etc, before you
            attach to the quad material.

            Gerald

            typetom@... wrote:

            >Hi Barb,
            >One method is to put a strip of tape on the inside edge of the curve before
            >you curve it, so the spacing at that edge stays tight. Then lock it with normal
            >lock-up pressure in the circular quads, adjusting the angles of the type as
            >needed. I don't think you have to fill all the angled spaces that are left --
            >as long as it holds.
            >
            >Tom Parson
            >Now It's Up To You Publications
            >157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
            >(303) 777-8951
            >http://members.aol.com/typetom
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Regis Graden
            Barb, Circular quads are not the easiest things to use! I believe what you describe is the right course. Many articles have been written on the subject in
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 10, 2005
              Barb,

              Circular quads are not the easiest things to use! I believe what you describe is the right course. Many articles have been written on the subject in "Inland Printer". I have a run of these great magazines through the '20s and '30s. If Gerald does not respond on exactly how to use them, I'll try to thumb through some issues and find some information for you.

              Good Luck,

              Regis

              barb tetenbaum <btetenbaum@...> wrote:
              I realize that you, dear reader, are
              digitally-inclined, but I also know that this is an
              experienced group of letterpress printers (and a
              smaller discussion group, thank god!), so I'm braving
              a hot type question: Do any of you have instructions,
              or know of instructions that are published, on how to
              use circular quads. I'm trying to set 14pt. type in a
              nice arch-shape. I have sets of metal "circular quads"
              which have different arc configurations. I'm assuming
              that you lay your type so that each piece of type is
              oriented along the arcs with as much contact on the
              top and bottom edges. The final lock-up is probably a
              combination of pressure and convenience. I've been
              using bits of mat board and old bent coppers to fine
              tune and fill in......what do you think? Anything
              published on this technique?
              Does anyone have one of these locked up that they
              could create a jpeg image to send me? I've had no luck
              in my own personal library or our school's. Thanks for
              any help you can offer.
              -Barb Tetenbaum (who very much enjoyed the rants
              written in response to my "Vandy"comment last month)

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Gerald Lange
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 10, 2005
                :)


                >If Gerald does not respond on exactly how to use them, I'll try to thumb through some issues and find some information for you.
                >
                >Good Luck,
                >
                >Regis
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Kathleen Whalen
                There are two assumptions for successful use: that you have both parts, and that the ends of the printed line within the quads are blank - space is good. First
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 11, 2005
                  There are two assumptions for successful use: that you have both parts, and
                  that the ends of the printed line within the quads are blank - space is
                  good.

                  First set your line with the spaces and hairspaces you would expect to use,
                  all in the stick. While still in the stick, run a piece of cellotape along
                  the type, covering the nick.

                  Slide the type out and stand it upright on the stone.

                  Slide the bottom half of the quad into place, so the type fits the curve
                  with the sellotape captured between the type and the quad.

                  Slide the top part into place. Pick it up as if it were six lines of type,
                  and check that it holds tight.

                  Lock in the chase in the standard way, with furniture on all four sides. The
                  pressure of normal lock-up has to hold the type in place. No problem on a
                  cylinder press, but with a platen there is some little risk that letters
                  will adjust themselves out of the chase - you might think candle-wax or
                  plasticine would be a solution, but tighter lock-up is the real answer.

                  Problems to look out for: if the type is larger than 12 point you may have
                  to re-set with spacing adjusted to meet your discerning eye. They work best
                  visually with no adjustment needed when using type 14pt and below; the metal
                  is not particularly hard, and they do get damaged relatively easily, but
                  considering the amount of use they have, they should last a long time; I
                  don't think italic type ever looks good in a curve, but you might think it
                  does. Full caps works visually sometimes. Rely on your eye!

                  Bon voyage!

                  Graham Moss
                  Incline Press
                  36 Bow Street
                  Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                  (44) 0161 627 1966
                  http://www.inclinepress.com
                • Ludwig M. Solzen
                  ... Nothing new, but perhaps some here are still not familiar with TeX and its huge possibilities. Did you want to set some type in a circular pattern, you
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 11, 2005
                    > “digitally-inclined” indeed.

                    Nothing new, but perhaps some here are still not familiar with TeX and its
                    huge possibilities. Did you want to set some type in a circular pattern, you
                    say? For a sample (digital of course!) just click
                    http://www.tug.org/texshowcase/ShowcaseCircular.pdf (attention: it’s pdf!).

                    I agree that the default faces (Computer Modern and some typewriter
                    companion) are not the most splendid things in fontworld, and not in the
                    least fitted for use in fine digital letterpress printing; also the white
                    space after the full-stop is a typo-historical and aesthetical mistake,
                    which TeX’s developer, Dr Knuth, took over from the unthoughtful 1970s
                    typographic standards in the US—but look at the beautifully spaced letters,
                    the over-all evenness of colour...

                    Digital typography has been the lesser of handset text, for years, but I am
                    fully convinced that graphic software is becoming unequalled, more and more.
                    And I don't even speak about it's time-saving advantages: if you know about
                    e.g. the implementation of the URW micro-typographic features into PDF-TeX
                    and Adobe InDesign, you will quickly realize that not even Gutenberg with
                    all his patience and the help of hundreds of the best punchcutters and
                    textsetters, could have made better text-settings.

                    Ludwig

                    ________________________________________
                    Van: Kathleen Whalen [mailto:kwhalen.incline@...]
                    Verzonden: vrijdag 11 februari 2005 10:18
                    Aan: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    Onderwerp: Re: [PPLetterpress] Circular quads

                    There are two assumptions for successful use: that you have both parts, and
                    that the ends of the printed line within the quads are blank - space is
                    good.

                    First set your line with the spaces and hairspaces you would expect to use,
                    all in the stick. While still in the stick, run a piece of cellotape along
                    the type, covering the nick.

                    Slide the type out and stand it upright on the stone.

                    Slide the bottom half of the quad into place, so the type fits the curve
                    with the sellotape captured between the type and the quad.

                    Slide the top part into place. Pick it up as if it were six lines of type,
                    and check that it holds tight.

                    Lock in the chase in the standard way, with furniture on all four sides. The
                    pressure of normal lock-up has to hold the type in place. No problem on a
                    cylinder press, but with a platen there is some little risk that letters
                    will adjust themselves out of the chase - you might think candle-wax or
                    plasticine would be a solution, but tighter lock-up is the real answer.

                    Problems to look out for: if the type is larger than 12 point you may have
                    to re-set with spacing adjusted to meet your discerning eye. They work best
                    visually with no adjustment needed when using type 14pt and below; the metal
                    is not particularly hard, and they do get damaged relatively easily, but
                    considering the amount of use they have, they should last a long time; I
                    don't think italic type ever looks good in a curve, but you might think it
                    does. Full caps works visually sometimes. Rely on your eye!

                    Bon voyage!

                    Graham Moss
                    Incline Press
                    36 Bow Street
                    Oldham OL1 1SJ  England
                    (44) 0161 627 1966
                    http://www.inclinepress.com





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                  • Michael T. Metz
                    And for those who like a challenge, the learning curve is a little steeper. I use LaTeX (now using a MiKTeX installation) and agree with Ludwig on its
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 11, 2005
                      And for those who like a challenge, the learning curve is a little
                      steeper. I use LaTeX (now using a MiKTeX installation) and agree
                      with Ludwig on its capabilities; however, do plan to spend a little
                      time getting to know it. It's strength is first, like Ludwig mentions,
                      its algorithms for setting paragraphs of text that avoid rivers and
                      like distractions and second in allowing one to have greater control
                      over the typesetting than with other programs. To gain this control,
                      however, one needs to know how to control (learning the syntax, and
                      understanding the way the program integrates itself).

                      Lugwig likely knows this but did not mention that one is not
                      limited to using Computer Modern; but again this is trickier. I now
                      use Perpetua, but would not like to again go through what it took to
                      install it.

                      Mike

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Ludwig M. Solzen [mailto:ppletterpress@...]
                      Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 6:53 AM
                      To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [PPLetterpress] Circular quads



                      > “digitally-inclined” indeed.

                      Nothing new, but perhaps some here are still not familiar with TeX and its
                      huge possibilities. Did you want to set some type in a circular pattern, you
                      say? For a sample (digital of course!) just click
                      http://www.tug.org/texshowcase/ShowcaseCircular.pdf (attention: it’s pdf!).

                      I agree that the default faces (Computer Modern and some typewriter
                      companion) are not the most splendid things in fontworld, and not in the
                      least fitted for use in fine digital letterpress printing; also the white
                      space after the full-stop is a typo-historical and aesthetical mistake,
                      which TeX’s developer, Dr Knuth, took over from the unthoughtful 1970s
                      typographic standards in the US—but look at the beautifully spaced letters,
                      the over-all evenness of colour...
                    • Charles Jones
                      ... Perhaps someone on the list could recommend a good Cyrillic font that will work on Mac os. Charles Jones LaNana Creek Press Nacogdoches, Texas
                      Message 10 of 12 , Feb 11, 2005
                        On Feb 11, 2005, at 6:53 AM, Ludwig M. Solzen wrote:

                        >
                        >> “digitally-inclined” indeed.
                        >
                        >
                        > I agree that the default faces (Computer Modern and some typewriter
                        > companion) are not the most splendid things in fontworld,

                        Perhaps someone on the list could recommend a good Cyrillic font that
                        will work on Mac os.
                        Charles Jones


                        LaNana Creek Press
                        Nacogdoches, Texas
                      • Ludwig M. Solzen
                        ... Imho one of the core problems of present day font production: the absence of a complete glyph set, for all-round typographical use. Most fonts come only
                        Message 11 of 12 , Feb 11, 2005
                          > Perhaps someone on the list could recommend a good Cyrillic font that
                          > will work on Mac os


                          Imho one of the core problems of present day font production: the absence of
                          a complete glyph set, for all-round typographical use. Most fonts come only
                          with the standard western alphabet (not even with all accents needed for
                          setting text in central European languages). So, we will have to content
                          ourselves with mixing different fonts...

                          I my regard you should, of course, combine fonts of the same face. And even
                          then, you will notice that the design of the Latin alphabet glyphs will not
                          match with that of the Cyrillic glyphs of the same face (strokes, serifs,
                          contrast and so forth). Be very careful in choosing the right fonts, even
                          when you stay with the same face.

                          In some OpenType edition of good fonts (e.g. several Adobe 'Pro's) you'll
                          find a complete Cyrillic alphabet. This is the case for Minion Pro and
                          Warnock Pro.

                          For my favourite, Bembo, there is alas no Cyrillic alphabet, not even a
                          Greek one, although Griffo cut several Greek alphabets for use in the Aldine
                          Officina. However (as I said on an earlier occasion), 'Cardo' will soon have
                          a Bembo-like Cyrillic and Greek alphabet.

                          It's a pity none of the resent Bodoni revivals have a Cyrillic alphabet, nor
                          Greek, although Bodoni cut these. The same goes for other much used, fine
                          faces.

                          If you would like to use Baskerville, I recommend Linotype's "Baskerville
                          Cyrillic".

                          *A lot* can be said on this subject!

                          Ludwig
                        • Charles Jones
                          Thank you very much for the information. I am working on a book that will have Russian and English language text renderings of poems along with lmages based
                          Message 12 of 12 , Feb 11, 2005
                            Thank you very much for the information. I am working on a book that
                            will have Russian and English language text renderings of poems along
                            with lmages based on line drawings . I have Baskerville in foundry
                            type and could use it with Baskerville Cyrillic. Cheers, Charles Jones


                            On Feb 11, 2005, at 1:17 PM, Ludwig M. Solzen wrote:

                            >
                            >> Perhaps someone on the list could recommend a good Cyrillic font that
                            >> will work on Mac os
                            >
                            >
                            > Imho one of the core problems of present day font production: the
                            > absence of
                            > a complete glyph set, for all-round typographical use. Most fonts come
                            > only
                            > with the standard western alphabet (not even with all accents needed
                            > for
                            > setting text in central European languages). So, we will have to
                            > content
                            > ourselves with mixing different fonts...
                            >
                            > I my regard you should, of course, combine fonts of the same face. And
                            > even
                            > then, you will notice that the design of the Latin alphabet glyphs
                            > will not
                            > match with that of the Cyrillic glyphs of the same face (strokes,
                            > serifs,
                            > contrast and so forth). Be very careful in choosing the right fonts,
                            > even
                            > when you stay with the same face.
                            >
                            > In some OpenType edition of good fonts (e.g. several Adobe 'Pro's)
                            > you'll
                            > find a complete Cyrillic alphabet. This is the case for Minion Pro and
                            > Warnock Pro.
                            >
                            > For my favourite, Bembo, there is alas no Cyrillic alphabet, not even a
                            > Greek one, although Griffo cut several Greek alphabets for use in the
                            > Aldine
                            > Officina. However (as I said on an earlier occasion), 'Cardo' will
                            > soon have
                            > a Bembo-like Cyrillic and Greek alphabet.
                            >
                            > It's a pity none of the resent Bodoni revivals have a Cyrillic
                            > alphabet, nor
                            > Greek, although Bodoni cut these. The same goes for other much used,
                            > fine
                            > faces.
                            >
                            > If you would like to use Baskerville, I recommend Linotype's
                            > "Baskerville
                            > Cyrillic".
                            >
                            > *A lot* can be said on this subject!
                            >
                            > Ludwig
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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