Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [PPLetterpress] POLIPHILUS REVISITED

Expand Messages
  • Kathleen Whalen
    Many thanks for an excellent article Ludwig, certainly one to print off and add in the file of specimens. Sorry this is a bit off-list being metal rather
    Message 1 of 22 , Jan 24, 2005
      Many thanks for an excellent article Ludwig, certainly one to print off and
      add in the file of specimens.

      Sorry this is a bit 'off-list' being metal rather than PP, but in the
      interests of completeness:

      In reply to the extract below; By January 1970, Monotype were offering
      matrices in the following:
      Both Poliphilus and Blado for Composition:10pt (9D); 11pt (10D); 12pt (12D);
      13pt (12D)

      Poliphilus Large Composition 14D on a 16pt body and 16D on a 16pt body

      Blado Large Composition 16pt (16D), and as Display matrices in 18pt, 24pt,
      30pt and 36pt.

      They offered the Fairbanks Italic as Bembo Condensed Italic (series 294) in
      10, 12, 13 and 16pt; my factory specimen is dated June 1957.

      In their publicity material, Monotype write that the type used for
      Hypnerotomachia Poliphili "was the one which, after adaptation by Garamond,
      Voskens and others, resulted finally in Caslon Old Face."

      Taking a 10x glass to the Monotype printed specimens, there is no
      discernable roughening of any of the Blado, so it doesn't appear to have
      originated from the metal type. Of the large composition I only have the
      36pt and there is no roughening there.

      So that answers the question of where the Monotype houses got their mats,
      but does not answer the question of how Monotype created the mats, though
      one might assume that the later sizes (all except the 10pt, 13pt and 16pt)
      were not freshly made. Also I'm curious about Monotypes use of Didot sizes
      on faces from Salfords - does it indicate they were originated by Monotype
      for use in Continental Europe rather than the UK?

      As to Monotype availability now: the Berliner outfit is not currently in
      production though we are waiting to hear if it will be again, and I assume
      it will be posted here when it is; I didn't get a reply to my last email to
      the Bixlers so don't know what's happenning there (If anyone a bit closer
      would like to phone them, I'd be glad to hear from them), and M&H only offer
      16pt Poliphilus in their catalogue, though with both the long and short tail
      R, Latin abbreviations and the ligatures QU, Qu, ct and st and the double
      long s.

      The Bembo Roman Q with the stubbed tail, looks as if it should be paired
      with a lower case u that has the end of the flourish cast below it. Monotype
      did use this device, but I've not found it with Bembo, unfortunately.


      Graham Moss
      Incline Press
      36 Bow Street
      Oldham OL1 1SJ England
      (44) 0161 627 1966
      http://www.inclinepress.com




      > From: "Ludwig M. Solzen" <ppletterpress@...>
      > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:02:39 +0100
      > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: [PPLetterpress] POLIPHILUS REVISITED
      >
      > I didn’t know about the metal type version of founders like Berliner,
      > Bixler and M&H. In the original Monotype release of 1923 only the 10, 13 and
      > 16 pt sizes were offered; so, what master pattern did those new foundries
      > take fort their respective 12, 18 and 24 pt sizes? I would be much
      > interested to hear, if anyone knew.
    • Ludwig M. Solzen
      Thank you all for the encouraging appreciation and addenda. I thought it a useful exercise to put my views and research together. It was about time and the
      Message 2 of 22 , Jan 24, 2005
        Thank you all for the encouraging appreciation and addenda. I thought it a
        useful exercise to put my views and research together. It was about time and
        the discussion going on here seemed a nice opportunity. I don’t care much
        about how and were and whether this should be published, for the moment. So,
        everyone may dispose of the text freely, if one only would be so kind to
        record its author. Anyhow, lot has to be done, still, so that a real ‘status
        quæstionis’ on the Aldine type could be written. In the mean time, I’d like
        to see things being discussed.

        As for the ‘critical apparatus’, I must blushingly admit that I’m still in
        college, making a PhD (alas, just in Art History, since Type History has not
        been acknowledged yet, here). So you’ll just have to abide such an annotated
        e-mail, I’m afraid, as the product of a too academic mind. Though I agree
        with Gerald that web links are far from the best sources to quote – I’m
        quite old-fashioned about those things – in this case I thought it better,
        since we’re dealing with specimens of digital type that are not in printed
        books of reference, available for everyone on this newsgroup, just wanting
        to have a quick look.

        I’d like to fully support Peter Fraterdeus’s suggestion of putting up an
        archive of high resolution scans of Aldine (and other?) type specimens for
        reference. I just like the idea of going into the library, taking
        photographs of all the incunabula they have and putting them in the digital
        archive! Such a collection of beautiful typographical archetypes, could grow
        very fast, if we worked together.

        Another proposal, already suggested by Chad: as an outcome of all this,
        perhaps, our own digital letterpress Aldine face could come into existence.
        All those different revivals (hot metal, photocomposition and digital), and
        the specimens of original Aldine publications, of course, give an already
        available abundance of design patterns. We could add the technology research
        that’s been done here on ‘letterpress optimisation’ and ink trapping. And
        finally, nobody will ever have to bother again over copyright restrictions,
        such as outlining fonts…

        Just dreaming.

        Ludwig
      • Roderick
        makeready.org kindly offers to host these specimens. best, Roderick ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with
        Message 3 of 22 , Jan 24, 2005
          makeready.org kindly offers to host these specimens.

          best, Roderick


          --- "Ludwig M. Solzen" <ppletterpress@...> wrote:

          > Thank you all for the encouraging appreciation and addenda. I
          > thought it a
          > useful exercise to put my views and research together. It was about
          > time and
          > the discussion going on here seemed a nice opportunity. I don�t
          > care much
          > about how and were and whether this should be published, for the
          > moment. So,
          > everyone may dispose of the text freely, if one only would be so
          > kind to
          > record its author. Anyhow, lot has to be done, still, so that a
          > real �status
          > qu�stionis� on the Aldine type could be written. In the mean time,
          > I�d like
          > to see things being discussed.
          >
          > As for the �critical apparatus�, I must blushingly admit that I�m
          > still in
          > college, making a PhD (alas, just in Art History, since Type
          > History has not
          > been acknowledged yet, here). So you�ll just have to abide such an
          > annotated
          > e-mail, I�m afraid, as the product of a too academic mind. Though I
          > agree
          > with Gerald that web links are far from the best sources to quote �
          > I�m
          > quite old-fashioned about those things � in this case I thought it
          > better,
          > since we�re dealing with specimens of digital type that are not in
          > printed
          > books of reference, available for everyone on this newsgroup, just
          > wanting
          > to have a quick look.
          >
          > I�d like to fully support Peter Fraterdeus�s suggestion of putting
          > up an
          > archive of high resolution scans of Aldine (and other?) type
          > specimens for
          > reference. I just like the idea of going into the library, taking
          > photographs of all the incunabula they have and putting them in the
          > digital
          > archive! Such a collection of beautiful typographical archetypes,
          > could grow
          > very fast, if we worked together.
          >
          > Another proposal, already suggested by Chad: as an outcome of all
          > this,
          > perhaps, our own digital letterpress Aldine face could come into
          > existence.
          > All those different revivals (hot metal, photocomposition and
          > digital), and
          > the specimens of original Aldine publications, of course, give an
          > already
          > available abundance of design patterns. We could add the technology
          > research
          > that�s been done here on �letterpress optimisation� and ink
          > trapping. And
          > finally, nobody will ever have to bother again over copyright
          > restrictions,
          > such as outlining fonts�
          >
          > Just dreaming.
          >
          > Ludwig
          >
          >




          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
          http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
        • Gerald Lange
          Dan et al Well, in the end I went in there and fixed the problematic character that I needed, the cap S. I didn t alter it anymore than necessary to make it
          Message 4 of 22 , Feb 15, 2005
            Dan et al

            Well, in the end I went in there and "fixed" the problematic character
            that I needed, the cap S. I didn't alter it anymore than necessary to
            make it conform to the lowercase but did fix the goofball "polygonal"
            effect, filled in the purposeful crevices in the outline, etc. Man,
            when you blow Poliphilus up it looks like Monotype just slashed away
            at that sucker. I found I had to pull back the curve a bit on the
            fairly thick characteristic trumpet-like swoop to the termination
            serifs to make it match the movement of the lowercase, and actually
            kick it back a tad on its axis.

            Seems to fit nicely now.

            Thanks for all the input.

            Gerald




            > Hi, Gerald.
            >
            > >I discovered that while Poliphilus and the Blado lowercase were
            > >seemingly cleaned up, the Blado caps were not. They are quite
            > >"distressed" with corruption
            > >quite obvious along the outline, whereas the other forms are not.
            >
            > A very interesting discovery. I put a loupe on the Blado in one of my
            > digital font references; sure enough, the Blado caps are rough. But
            > look at the cap 'C' and 'G': It looks as if the digitizer had only so
            > many points to use and you get almost a polygonal effect.
            >
            > I checked the Bixlers' type specimen chart, and -- wouldn't you know
            > it? -- Poliphilus and Blado are not shown, even though I think they
            > offer composition in these faces.
            >
            > I believe Harold Berliner carried them, at least at one time.
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.