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Re: kluge

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  • Gerald Lange
    Lance I really don t want to step into the mess that is copyright law but in essence copyrighted materials are not only protected against copying but also
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 2, 2005
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      Lance

      I really don't want to step into the mess that is copyright law but in
      essence copyrighted materials are not only protected against "copying"
      but also against unauthorized "distribution." Doesn't matter if they
      are sold or not.

      Think of it this way. If you wrote something and sold it in published
      form for $20 and someone copied it and gave it away for free, they
      would be taking away from your income since whoever got it from them
      would have no need to buy it from you. You have the right to protect
      how your copyrighted material is distributed, even if you give it away
      for free.

      I assume you got most of these materials from Flywheel & Cylinder.
      Perhaps, since Boxcar has put them up, they do have permission, and
      further distribution, since they are available online in downloadable
      form without charge, is thereby extended with the permission of the
      copyright holders.

      Gerald


      > But, then again, I have not actually copied any of these manuals
      myself, I
      > ave just collected them off the web from other sources... I'll have to
      > check with the manufactures, I guess before I mail out any more of the
      > CD's...... I had just figured that most of the file were long into the
      > public domain, but don't really know what copyright limitations are....
      > You know where assumptions get you..... Thanks for the heads up,
      though,
      > and I will check with the sources....
      >
      > - Lance
      >
    • Lance Williams
      Gerald, Thanks for the comments, and you and Fritz have certainly given me some things to think about.... I certainly do not want to do anything illegal as
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 2, 2005
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        Gerald,

        Thanks for the comments, and you and Fritz have certainly given me some things to think about.... I certainly do not want to do anything illegal as far as copyright is concerned, and until this point had considered all of the manuals of the older equipment as having their copyright protection long expired... Never gave a thought to the fact that some of these companies are still in business and might still publish the manuals and such... For now, I think I will remove the Heidelberg and Kluge information from the CD, and contact them for distribution permission for the copies I currently have. The Vandercook information is up to Fritz... If he says Ok, it will stay on the CD, otherwise, it is gone as well....

        And, Yes, I did download the bulk of the information from Boxcar Press, and I will have to talk to Kyle tomorrow and see if he actually has permissions from anyone other than Fritz for posting these files for download. I don't want to get him in trouble, either....

        Happy New Year!

        - Lance

        (Sent this earlier, but it was send from the wrong email address..... Since writing, I have left a contact form with a request for permission with both Kluge and Heidelberg... Now we just have to see what they say....)


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Gerald Lange
        To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: 1/2/2005 3:45:21 AM
        Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: kluge




        Lance

        I really don't want to step into the mess that is copyright law but in
        essence copyrighted materials are not only protected against "copying"
        but also against unauthorized "distribution." Doesn't matter if they
        are sold or not.

        Think of it this way. If you wrote something and sold it in published
        form for $20 and someone copied it and gave it away for free, they
        would be taking away from your income since whoever got it from them
        would have no need to buy it from you. You have the right to protect
        how your copyrighted material is distributed, even if you give it away
        for free.

        I assume you got most of these materials from Flywheel & Cylinder.
        Perhaps, since Boxcar has put them up, they do have permission, and
        further distribution, since they are available online in downloadable
        form without charge, is thereby extended with the permission of the
        copyright holders.

        Gerald


        > But, then again, I have not actually copied any of these manuals
        myself, I
        > ave just collected them off the web from other sources... I'll have to
        > check with the manufactures, I guess before I mail out any more of the
        > CD's...... I had just figured that most of the file were long into the
        > public domain, but don't really know what copyright limitations are....
        > You know where assumptions get you..... Thanks for the heads up,
        though,
        > and I will check with the sources....
        >
        > - Lance
        >









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      • Fritz Klinke
        Lance--This sounds like a reasonable approach and I ll be curious to see what Kluge and Heidelberg say. I once approached Heidelberg about taking over some of
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 2, 2005
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          Lance--This sounds like a reasonable approach and I'll be curious to see what
          Kluge and Heidelberg say. I once approached Heidelberg about taking over some of
          the parts they were dropping for some of their letterpress machines and got as
          far as a vice president who emphatically said no. When parts stop selling and
          they deplete their world-wide inventory for something, after a suitable time
          period, the part is removed from production and even the blueprints are
          destroyed. The only reason we get any parts support from them is because of
          demand, and that there are tens of thousands of the various letterpress machines
          still in use world-wide. BUT, to buy from them one has to sign a waiver of
          liability, and go through intensive scrutiny before they'll sell even a screw.
          For mere owners of a machine, the serial number has to be registered, and then
          they will sell only parts for the machine listed in their records. It all boils
          down to liability--the Linotype suits I told you about were taking place in 2003
          and the amounts in contention were several million dollars--I think Dave Seat
          ended up being a key witness for them, so they protect themselves very closely.

          On another note, Vandercook did furnish copies of primarily assembly drawings to
          customers, but they never gave out blueprints for the actual parts. I think the
          assembly drawings are far superior to anything they ever put out in the form of
          a manual and on these, every screw, bolt, spring etc are referenced to as to
          size or part number. I have correspondence from the US Army who purchased a
          Universal I in the 1960s and they rejected the manual as being "insufficient"
          and Vandercook had to provide a custom manual that listed every part. The Army
          was a lot more demanding than the average printer--and I feel that's why so many
          presses ended up with make-shift repairs over the years because people couldn't
          figure out what parts to order. Back up support has always been available for
          Vandercooks which is why I still have the guts of the company today.

          Thanks,

          Fritz

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Lance Williams" <lwwill7999@...>
          To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 12:46 PM
          Subject: RE: [PPLetterpress] Re: kluge


          >
          > Gerald,
          >
          > Thanks for the comments, and you and Fritz have certainly given me some
          things to think about.... I certainly do not want to do anything illegal as far
          as copyright is concerned, and until this point had considered all of the
          manuals of the older equipment as having their copyright protection long
          expired... Never gave a thought to the fact that some of these companies are
          still in business and might still publish the manuals and such... For now, I
          think I will remove the Heidelberg and Kluge information from the CD, and
          contact them for distribution permission for the copies I currently have. The
          Vandercook information is up to Fritz... If he says Ok, it will stay on the CD,
          otherwise, it is gone as well....
          >
          > And, Yes, I did download the bulk of the information from Boxcar Press,
          and I will have to talk to Kyle tomorrow and see if he actually has permissions
          from anyone other than Fritz for posting these files for download. I don't want
          to get him in trouble, either....
          >
          > Happy New Year!
          >
          > - Lance
          >
          > (Sent this earlier, but it was send from the wrong email address..... Since
          writing, I have left a contact form with a request for permission with both
          Kluge and Heidelberg... Now we just have to see what they say....)
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Gerald Lange
          > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: 1/2/2005 3:45:21 AM
          > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: kluge
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Lance
          >
          > I really don't want to step into the mess that is copyright law but in
          > essence copyrighted materials are not only protected against "copying"
          > but also against unauthorized "distribution." Doesn't matter if they
          > are sold or not.
          >
          > Think of it this way. If you wrote something and sold it in published
          > form for $20 and someone copied it and gave it away for free, they
          > would be taking away from your income since whoever got it from them
          > would have no need to buy it from you. You have the right to protect
          > how your copyrighted material is distributed, even if you give it away
          > for free.
          >
          > I assume you got most of these materials from Flywheel & Cylinder.
          > Perhaps, since Boxcar has put them up, they do have permission, and
          > further distribution, since they are available online in downloadable
          > form without charge, is thereby extended with the permission of the
          > copyright holders.
          >
          > Gerald
          >
          >
          > > But, then again, I have not actually copied any of these manuals
          > myself, I
          > > ave just collected them off the web from other sources... I'll have to
          > > check with the manufactures, I guess before I mail out any more of the
          > > CD's...... I had just figured that most of the file were long into the
          > > public domain, but don't really know what copyright limitations are....
          > > You know where assumptions get you..... Thanks for the heads up,
          > though,
          > > and I will check with the sources....
          > >
          > > - Lance
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
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          >
          >
          >
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