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Re: [PPLetterpress] kluge

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  • Lance Williams
    But, then again, I have not actually copied any of these manuals myself, I ave just collected them off the web from other sources... I ll have to check with
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 1, 2005
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      But, then again, I have not actually copied any of these manuals myself, I
      ave just collected them off the web from other sources... I'll have to
      check with the manufactures, I guess before I mail out any more of the
      CD's...... I had just figured that most of the file were long into the
      public domain, but don't really know what copyright limitations are....
      You know where assumptions get you..... Thanks for the heads up, though,
      and I will check with the sources....

      - Lance


      > [Original Message]
      > From: Fritz Klinke <nagraph@...>
      > To: <lwwill7999@...>
      > Date: 1/1/2005 5:42:21 AM
      > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] kluge
      >
      > Lance--As a follow up on my earlier message to you, I think you will find
      that
      > Heidelberg retains the copyright on all the publications you list and in
      fact,
      > some of them are still sold by Heidelberg. I have purchased the parts
      lists from
      > them and these are still very much in copyright protection, as is my
      Vandercook
      > material. The Kluge manuals may pose a problem as well, and I think you
      need to
      > take this into consideration when copying the work belonging to others
      who may
      > quite rightly call you on this. I would urge some caution in handing out
      this
      > information without specific permission from the copyright owners.
      >
      > Fritz
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Lance Williams" <lwwill7999@...>
      > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 7:02 PM
      > Subject: RE: [PPLetterpress] kluge
      >
      >
      > >
      > > You can download the manuals for the A/B series and the D series from
      boxcar
      > press (http://www.boxcarpress.com/flywheel/index.html), or if you do not
      have a
      > high speed connection, I have these manuals along with many others from
      several
      > sources on a CD for only $3.00 to cover the costs.
      > >
      > > If anyone else is interested, the CD Contains the following:
      > > Adana TP/48 Manual
      > > ATF Little Giant Model #6 Manual
      > > Challenge 15A/15MP Manual & Parts List
      > > Colts Laureate & Armory BB&S Promotion
      > > Gold Magic, All Models, Instructions
      > > Golding Pearl Sales Brochure
      > > Golding Sales 1906 Sales Catalog Reproduction (28 pages) (Inclusion
      pending
      > approval)
      > > Gordon Press Works Sales Catalog (21 Pages)
      > > Hohner Hobo I, II, III, IV Manual & Parts List
      > > Kelsey Printers Guide Instruction Manual
      > > Chandler & Price:
      > > Handbook of Automatic Platen Presswork Instruction Booklet
      > > Printing Machinery and Equipment Catalog, Samuel Stevens, Boston,
      Mass., 26
      > pages
      > > Craftsman Side Delivery Manual & Parts List
      > > Craftsman Automatic Manual& Parts List
      > > New Series Parts List
      > > Pilot Press Manual & Parts List
      > > 1906 C&P Gordon Press Sales page from catalog
      > > Heidelberg Hints for the Pressman
      > > Heidelberg Windmill Manual
      > > Heidelberg Windmill with Lockouts Parts List
      > > Kluge Sales Brochure
      > > Kluge Automatic Parts List
      > > Kwickprint, All Models, Instructions for Use
      > > Miehle V-50 Vertical Manual & Parts List
      > > Vandercook Model 219, Recent Model, Manual & Parts List
      > > Vandercook Model 3 Manual & Parts List
      > > Vandercook Model 325A, 325G, 320G Manual & Parts List
      > > Vandercook Model SP-15 Manual & Parts List
      > > Vandercook Universal I Manual & Sales Brochure
      > > Vandercook Universal III Manual & Parts List
      > > B. Verner Multipress Model FM Operating Instructions & Parts List
      > >
      > > I think this is everything I currently have on the CD, and if anyone has
      > anything else they would like to add to the CD, let me know, and I'll
      download
      > it and add it to the CD.... All this available for $3.00 to cover
      postage and
      > cost of materials. Send to the following:
      > >
      > > - Lance Williams
      > > Williams Stationery Co.
      > > PO Box 266
      > > Camden, NY 13316
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: timbenas
      > > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: 12/23/2004 3:48:30 PM
      > > Subject: [PPLetterpress] kluge
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Does anyone have an instruction book for the Kluge automatic. This
      > > feed system is killing me. I would be happy to pay for a copy.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
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      > > U.S./Canada
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      > >
      > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/
      > >
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      > > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > >
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      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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    • Gerald Lange
      Lance I really don t want to step into the mess that is copyright law but in essence copyrighted materials are not only protected against copying but also
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 2, 2005
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        Lance

        I really don't want to step into the mess that is copyright law but in
        essence copyrighted materials are not only protected against "copying"
        but also against unauthorized "distribution." Doesn't matter if they
        are sold or not.

        Think of it this way. If you wrote something and sold it in published
        form for $20 and someone copied it and gave it away for free, they
        would be taking away from your income since whoever got it from them
        would have no need to buy it from you. You have the right to protect
        how your copyrighted material is distributed, even if you give it away
        for free.

        I assume you got most of these materials from Flywheel & Cylinder.
        Perhaps, since Boxcar has put them up, they do have permission, and
        further distribution, since they are available online in downloadable
        form without charge, is thereby extended with the permission of the
        copyright holders.

        Gerald


        > But, then again, I have not actually copied any of these manuals
        myself, I
        > ave just collected them off the web from other sources... I'll have to
        > check with the manufactures, I guess before I mail out any more of the
        > CD's...... I had just figured that most of the file were long into the
        > public domain, but don't really know what copyright limitations are....
        > You know where assumptions get you..... Thanks for the heads up,
        though,
        > and I will check with the sources....
        >
        > - Lance
        >
      • Lance Williams
        Gerald, Thanks for the comments, and you and Fritz have certainly given me some things to think about.... I certainly do not want to do anything illegal as
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 2, 2005
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          Gerald,

          Thanks for the comments, and you and Fritz have certainly given me some things to think about.... I certainly do not want to do anything illegal as far as copyright is concerned, and until this point had considered all of the manuals of the older equipment as having their copyright protection long expired... Never gave a thought to the fact that some of these companies are still in business and might still publish the manuals and such... For now, I think I will remove the Heidelberg and Kluge information from the CD, and contact them for distribution permission for the copies I currently have. The Vandercook information is up to Fritz... If he says Ok, it will stay on the CD, otherwise, it is gone as well....

          And, Yes, I did download the bulk of the information from Boxcar Press, and I will have to talk to Kyle tomorrow and see if he actually has permissions from anyone other than Fritz for posting these files for download. I don't want to get him in trouble, either....

          Happy New Year!

          - Lance

          (Sent this earlier, but it was send from the wrong email address..... Since writing, I have left a contact form with a request for permission with both Kluge and Heidelberg... Now we just have to see what they say....)


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Gerald Lange
          To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: 1/2/2005 3:45:21 AM
          Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: kluge




          Lance

          I really don't want to step into the mess that is copyright law but in
          essence copyrighted materials are not only protected against "copying"
          but also against unauthorized "distribution." Doesn't matter if they
          are sold or not.

          Think of it this way. If you wrote something and sold it in published
          form for $20 and someone copied it and gave it away for free, they
          would be taking away from your income since whoever got it from them
          would have no need to buy it from you. You have the right to protect
          how your copyrighted material is distributed, even if you give it away
          for free.

          I assume you got most of these materials from Flywheel & Cylinder.
          Perhaps, since Boxcar has put them up, they do have permission, and
          further distribution, since they are available online in downloadable
          form without charge, is thereby extended with the permission of the
          copyright holders.

          Gerald


          > But, then again, I have not actually copied any of these manuals
          myself, I
          > ave just collected them off the web from other sources... I'll have to
          > check with the manufactures, I guess before I mail out any more of the
          > CD's...... I had just figured that most of the file were long into the
          > public domain, but don't really know what copyright limitations are....
          > You know where assumptions get you..... Thanks for the heads up,
          though,
          > and I will check with the sources....
          >
          > - Lance
          >









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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Fritz Klinke
          Lance--This sounds like a reasonable approach and I ll be curious to see what Kluge and Heidelberg say. I once approached Heidelberg about taking over some of
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 2, 2005
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            Lance--This sounds like a reasonable approach and I'll be curious to see what
            Kluge and Heidelberg say. I once approached Heidelberg about taking over some of
            the parts they were dropping for some of their letterpress machines and got as
            far as a vice president who emphatically said no. When parts stop selling and
            they deplete their world-wide inventory for something, after a suitable time
            period, the part is removed from production and even the blueprints are
            destroyed. The only reason we get any parts support from them is because of
            demand, and that there are tens of thousands of the various letterpress machines
            still in use world-wide. BUT, to buy from them one has to sign a waiver of
            liability, and go through intensive scrutiny before they'll sell even a screw.
            For mere owners of a machine, the serial number has to be registered, and then
            they will sell only parts for the machine listed in their records. It all boils
            down to liability--the Linotype suits I told you about were taking place in 2003
            and the amounts in contention were several million dollars--I think Dave Seat
            ended up being a key witness for them, so they protect themselves very closely.

            On another note, Vandercook did furnish copies of primarily assembly drawings to
            customers, but they never gave out blueprints for the actual parts. I think the
            assembly drawings are far superior to anything they ever put out in the form of
            a manual and on these, every screw, bolt, spring etc are referenced to as to
            size or part number. I have correspondence from the US Army who purchased a
            Universal I in the 1960s and they rejected the manual as being "insufficient"
            and Vandercook had to provide a custom manual that listed every part. The Army
            was a lot more demanding than the average printer--and I feel that's why so many
            presses ended up with make-shift repairs over the years because people couldn't
            figure out what parts to order. Back up support has always been available for
            Vandercooks which is why I still have the guts of the company today.

            Thanks,

            Fritz

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Lance Williams" <lwwill7999@...>
            To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 12:46 PM
            Subject: RE: [PPLetterpress] Re: kluge


            >
            > Gerald,
            >
            > Thanks for the comments, and you and Fritz have certainly given me some
            things to think about.... I certainly do not want to do anything illegal as far
            as copyright is concerned, and until this point had considered all of the
            manuals of the older equipment as having their copyright protection long
            expired... Never gave a thought to the fact that some of these companies are
            still in business and might still publish the manuals and such... For now, I
            think I will remove the Heidelberg and Kluge information from the CD, and
            contact them for distribution permission for the copies I currently have. The
            Vandercook information is up to Fritz... If he says Ok, it will stay on the CD,
            otherwise, it is gone as well....
            >
            > And, Yes, I did download the bulk of the information from Boxcar Press,
            and I will have to talk to Kyle tomorrow and see if he actually has permissions
            from anyone other than Fritz for posting these files for download. I don't want
            to get him in trouble, either....
            >
            > Happy New Year!
            >
            > - Lance
            >
            > (Sent this earlier, but it was send from the wrong email address..... Since
            writing, I have left a contact form with a request for permission with both
            Kluge and Heidelberg... Now we just have to see what they say....)
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Gerald Lange
            > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: 1/2/2005 3:45:21 AM
            > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: kluge
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Lance
            >
            > I really don't want to step into the mess that is copyright law but in
            > essence copyrighted materials are not only protected against "copying"
            > but also against unauthorized "distribution." Doesn't matter if they
            > are sold or not.
            >
            > Think of it this way. If you wrote something and sold it in published
            > form for $20 and someone copied it and gave it away for free, they
            > would be taking away from your income since whoever got it from them
            > would have no need to buy it from you. You have the right to protect
            > how your copyrighted material is distributed, even if you give it away
            > for free.
            >
            > I assume you got most of these materials from Flywheel & Cylinder.
            > Perhaps, since Boxcar has put them up, they do have permission, and
            > further distribution, since they are available online in downloadable
            > form without charge, is thereby extended with the permission of the
            > copyright holders.
            >
            > Gerald
            >
            >
            > > But, then again, I have not actually copied any of these manuals
            > myself, I
            > > ave just collected them off the web from other sources... I'll have to
            > > check with the manufactures, I guess before I mail out any more of the
            > > CD's...... I had just figured that most of the file were long into the
            > > public domain, but don't really know what copyright limitations are....
            > > You know where assumptions get you..... Thanks for the heads up,
            > though,
            > > and I will check with the sources....
            > >
            > > - Lance
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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