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Re: [PPLetterpress] Halftones

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  • Dan Mayer
    Greetings all, Halftones and bitmap (computer-generated stochastic random dot ‹ a.k.a. diffusion dither bitmap ‹ whew!) can both be easily accomplished
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 30, 2002
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      Greetings all,

      Halftones and bitmap (computer-generated stochastic random dot ‹ a.k.a.
      diffusion dither bitmap ‹ whew!) can both be easily accomplished with
      polymer plates. The plates are highly receptive to fine detail. (polymer
      can accept more detail than the Vandercook's capability)

      The literature on Toyobo Printight Plates (Anderson Vreeland) suggest a
      halftone resolution at 150 dpi.

      Although printing 150 dpi on the Vandercook will be difficult because the
      plate will fill in. Roller adjustment, ink tack, and paper selection (that
      is smooth paper versus a textured paper) will also be an issue when printing
      halftones.

      Make test plates such as 65, 100, 110, 133 dpi and observe where the plate
      peaks out, that is, fills in.

      Bitmapping is also another possibility with polymer. I have had success with
      printing 300 dpi (computer dpi) bitmapped information. Higher resolution can
      also be attained for bitmapped line work.

      For plate processing (bitmap or not) I use a quasi-low-tech method utilizing
      a bank of 8, 24-inch long High Output UV florescent tubes (with vacuum draw
      sheet) and a brush for hand wash-out.

      For further reading on outputting bitmap from the computer, check out
      "Making Digital Negatives for Contact Printing" by Dan Burkholder.

      Happy Printing

      -- Dan


      Dan Mayer
      Book Arts Printer & Shop Manager
      Pyracantha Press
      School of Art
      Arizona State University
      Tempe, AZ 85287-1505

      480-965-3713
      djmayer@...






      on 1/30/02 6:17 AM, Katie Harper at knharper@... wrote:

      > Is anyone out there doing "real" halftones--ie, accurate, quality
      > reproduction of photographs-- via letterpress with polymer (or other)
      > plates? I'm interested to know if letterpress can compete at all with offset
      > in this area, given the right paper, inks, etc.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Katie Harper
      > Ars Brevis Press
      > Cincinnati, OH
      > 513-233-9588
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To post a message to the membership, send an email to
      > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      >
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      >
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      >
    • Marnie Powers-Torrey
      Katie- I would advise that you give yourself PLENTY of play time before embarking on such a large project. I myself would not be comfortable with taking on
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 1, 2002
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        Katie-

        I would advise that you give yourself PLENTY of play time before
        embarking on such a large project. I myself would not be comfortable
        with taking on this project yet-- perhaps you have more time and a
        greater sensitivity to problems than I... I'm just not there yet. I
        spoke of a goal, not an actuality.

        If you have access to an etching press, the results are phenonmenal. Of
        course handwiping is much more time consuming, and unless you have a
        army of slaves, a very large run may never get finished. I love intaglio
        images mixed with letterpress text-- exquisite!!

        I want so badly to keep this conversation going with you-- but I am
        afraid that much more research and play time is needed before I can
        offer anything solid. I am feeling the pressure that I leave tomorrow
        for a month-- many, many things to get done today. I will not have
        access to a computer for the entire trip.

        I can tell you that stochastic screen is available at SOME service
        bureaus. It is not used for prepress for offset litho, so you'll need to
        do some calling around.

        I'd like to check out that book that Gerald recommends-- the
        Photogravure with photopolmer info-- "Printing with the Sun?". Gerald
        seems to be quite the resource... as is this list!!

        As far as using a soft, textured paper with plenty of impression-- I
        don't think there's any hope for high resolution images that we're
        talking about. The dot is so fine, that pressure just adds to the dot
        gain and all the details start to fill in. I think rag paper is still a
        possibility, just smooth with little impression-- still I think
        obviously letterpress and not offset in appearance. I've been playing
        around with a paper that Utrecht ARt Supply makes-- "American Printing"
        or something like that. About a dollar a sheet for 22"x30". A little
        stiffer than I'd like, but smooth and gives you that rag appeal.

        Sorry to skirt the issue! I'd love hear how your investigations are
        going and share mine with you... cooperative problem solving... be back
        in March.

        Marnie

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Katie Harper [mailto:knharper@...]
        Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 10:53 AM
        To: Marnie Powers-Torrey
        Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Halftones


        Marnie: Your work intrigues me. It never occurred to me to aim to
        compete
        with the quality of a silver print! I figured offset quality was high
        enough.

        I don't know much about the stocastic screen, although I've heard a
        little.
        Where does one go to get such output from a computer file or scanned
        grayscale image? Do service bureaus routinely provide such a screen or
        is it
        something rare (ie, hard to find!)

        The reason I'm asking is this: I'm in charge of putting together a
        catalog
        for the Cincinnati Book Arts Society's next exhibition. I wanted to make
        it
        a letterpress showpiece, since letterpress is part of our groups main
        focus.
        But I figured that to get quality reproductions of the slides of the
        books
        in the show would require offset printing on smooth paper, not the type
        of
        paper that looks so cool when printed letterpress. And that even on
        smooth
        paper, offset would be better. However, I'd love the opportunity to show
        what letterpress can do. And I'm also not sure we'll be able to get the
        offset printing donated as we have in the past, given current economic
        times.

        Can you give me more specifics on what you are doing?

        Thanks!


        Katie Harper
        Ars Brevis Press
        Cincinnati, OH
        513-233-9588




        > From: "Marnie Powers-Torrey" <marnie.torrey@...>
        > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:08:37 -0700
        > To: "PPletterpress (E-mail)" <PPletterpress@yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Halftones
        >
        >
        >
        > Katie-
        >
        > We're working on it here in Utah. If it's offset quality you're
        looking
        > for, I think it's entirely possible. I'm shooting for closer to a
        silver
        > print-- fooling the eye as much as possible that there are grays and
        > really keeping the appearance of dots to a minimum (perhaps
        impossible).
        > Thus the stochastic screen which mimicks the grain of photo paper (and
        > doesn't produce a moire pattern when printing more than one run). Try
        > printing intaglio with the polymer-- a trick to wipe but oh so worth
        it.
        > Very fine results.
        >
        > Right now we're using smooth paper with very little impression.
        Keeping
        > the inking to a minimum so that the finer detail is less likely to
        fill
        > in. We're still using rubber base ink, and I don't think that's
        helping
        > us. Also, compress the tones of the image in curves of photoshop and
        > bump up the contrast a bit before having the negative generated. If we
        > come up with any tremendous breakthroughs, I'll keep the list updated.
        >
        > Good luck!
        >
        > Marnie
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Katie Harper [mailto:knharper@...]
        > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 6:17 AM
        > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Halftones
        >
        >
        > Is anyone out there doing "real" halftones--ie, accurate, quality
        > reproduction of photographs-- via letterpress with polymer (or other)
        > plates? I'm interested to know if letterpress can compete at all with
        > offset
        > in this area, given the right paper, inks, etc.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Katie Harper
        > Ars Brevis Press
        > Cincinnati, OH
        > 513-233-9588
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To post a message to the membership, send an email to
        > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > To log on to the groupsite (confirmed Yahoo ID required), go to
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        > [copious reference sources can be found onsite in Bookmarks (URLs),
        > Database (tables), Files (documents), and Messages (archives)]
        >
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        >
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      • Joel Benson
        Katie and Marnie- One thing you can do if you want to print very fine half tones on soft, textured paper is to deboss the image area first. Make a solid
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 1, 2002
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          Katie and Marnie-

          One thing you can do if you want to print very fine half tones on soft,
          textured paper is to deboss the image area first. Make a solid printing
          block the exact size of the image and just blind print it with a lot of
          impression to smooth out the texture of the sheet. Too much impression
          and the flattened area will "pillow", which may or may not cause
          problems when you go to overprint the halftone. I would repeat what
          Marnie says below, give yourself plenty of play time!

          I don't know if this would apply to the project at hand, but it may be
          useful in other applications. It does add another whole press run to a
          project, but it can be worthwhile.

          Joel

          Joel Benson
          Dependable Letterpress
          San Francisco

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Marnie Powers-Torrey [mailto:marnie.torrey@...]
          Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 8:18 AM
          To: PPletterpress (E-mail)
          Subject: [PPLetterpress] RE: Halftones


          Katie-

          I would advise that you give yourself PLENTY of play time before
          embarking on such a large project. I myself would not be comfortable
          with taking on this project yet-- perhaps you have more time and a
          greater sensitivity to problems than I... I'm just not there yet. I
          spoke of a goal, not an actuality.

          If you have access to an etching press, the results are phenonmenal. Of
          course handwiping is much more time consuming, and unless you have a
          army of slaves, a very large run may never get finished. I love intaglio
          images mixed with letterpress text-- exquisite!!

          I want so badly to keep this conversation going with you-- but I am
          afraid that much more research and play time is needed before I can
          offer anything solid. I am feeling the pressure that I leave tomorrow
          for a month-- many, many things to get done today. I will not have
          access to a computer for the entire trip.

          I can tell you that stochastic screen is available at SOME service
          bureaus. It is not used for prepress for offset litho, so you'll need to
          do some calling around.

          I'd like to check out that book that Gerald recommends-- the
          Photogravure with photopolmer info-- "Printing with the Sun?". Gerald
          seems to be quite the resource... as is this list!!

          As far as using a soft, textured paper with plenty of impression-- I
          don't think there's any hope for high resolution images that we're
          talking about. The dot is so fine, that pressure just adds to the dot
          gain and all the details start to fill in. I think rag paper is still a
          possibility, just smooth with little impression-- still I think
          obviously letterpress and not offset in appearance. I've been playing
          around with a paper that Utrecht ARt Supply makes-- "American Printing"
          or something like that. About a dollar a sheet for 22"x30". A little
          stiffer than I'd like, but smooth and gives you that rag appeal.

          Sorry to skirt the issue! I'd love hear how your investigations are
          going and share mine with you... cooperative problem solving... be back
          in March.

          Marnie

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Katie Harper [mailto:knharper@...]
          Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 10:53 AM
          To: Marnie Powers-Torrey
          Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Halftones


          Marnie: Your work intrigues me. It never occurred to me to aim to
          compete
          with the quality of a silver print! I figured offset quality was high
          enough.

          I don't know much about the stocastic screen, although I've heard a
          little.
          Where does one go to get such output from a computer file or scanned
          grayscale image? Do service bureaus routinely provide such a screen or
          is it
          something rare (ie, hard to find!)

          The reason I'm asking is this: I'm in charge of putting together a
          catalog
          for the Cincinnati Book Arts Society's next exhibition. I wanted to make
          it
          a letterpress showpiece, since letterpress is part of our groups main
          focus.
          But I figured that to get quality reproductions of the slides of the
          books
          in the show would require offset printing on smooth paper, not the type
          of
          paper that looks so cool when printed letterpress. And that even on
          smooth
          paper, offset would be better. However, I'd love the opportunity to show
          what letterpress can do. And I'm also not sure we'll be able to get the
          offset printing donated as we have in the past, given current economic
          times.

          Can you give me more specifics on what you are doing?

          Thanks!


          Katie Harper
          Ars Brevis Press
          Cincinnati, OH
          513-233-9588




          > From: "Marnie Powers-Torrey" <marnie.torrey@...>
          > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:08:37 -0700
          > To: "PPletterpress (E-mail)" <PPletterpress@yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Halftones
          >
          >
          >
          > Katie-
          >
          > We're working on it here in Utah. If it's offset quality you're
          looking
          > for, I think it's entirely possible. I'm shooting for closer to a
          silver
          > print-- fooling the eye as much as possible that there are grays and
          > really keeping the appearance of dots to a minimum (perhaps
          impossible).
          > Thus the stochastic screen which mimicks the grain of photo paper (and
          > doesn't produce a moire pattern when printing more than one run). Try
          > printing intaglio with the polymer-- a trick to wipe but oh so worth
          it.
          > Very fine results.
          >
          > Right now we're using smooth paper with very little impression.
          Keeping
          > the inking to a minimum so that the finer detail is less likely to
          fill
          > in. We're still using rubber base ink, and I don't think that's
          helping
          > us. Also, compress the tones of the image in curves of photoshop and
          > bump up the contrast a bit before having the negative generated. If we
          > come up with any tremendous breakthroughs, I'll keep the list updated.
          >
          > Good luck!
          >
          > Marnie
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Katie Harper [mailto:knharper@...]
          > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 6:17 AM
          > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Halftones
          >
          >
          > Is anyone out there doing "real" halftones--ie, accurate, quality
          > reproduction of photographs-- via letterpress with polymer (or other)
          > plates? I'm interested to know if letterpress can compete at all with
          > offset
          > in this area, given the right paper, inks, etc.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Katie Harper
          > Ars Brevis Press
          > Cincinnati, OH
          > 513-233-9588
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To post a message to the membership, send an email to
          > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > To log on to the groupsite (confirmed Yahoo ID required), go to
          > http://groups.yahoogroups.com/group/PPLetterpress
          > [copious reference sources can be found onsite in Bookmarks (URLs),
          > Database (tables), Files (documents), and Messages (archives)]
          >
          > Encountering problems? send an email to
          > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
          >
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          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
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          >




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        • bielerpr
          Dear Katie and Marnie This is in response to an old post and stochastic(sp?) filters. I ve been screwing around in Photoshop for the last three days with an
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 11, 2002
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            Dear Katie and Marnie

            This is in response to an old post and stochastic(sp?) filters. I've
            been screwing around in Photoshop for the last three days with an old
            mezzotint filter (there are ten variations that need to be worked out
            in sequence). I've been running these sequences (very subtlely) on a very
            large image over and over again. Something like my thirty sixth pass now and
            I am getting close to a screen that I believe will print well letterpress
            (with care) as a b/w. It seems to share the reticulation of the collotype.
            I'll go a bit further will this and take a print and let you know.

            Gerald
          • Gerald Lange
            Hi Marnie Actually no. I experimented with a solid image and ran a very long serious of various mezzotint filters across it. Eventually I came up with many
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 15, 2002
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              Hi Marnie

              Actually no. I experimented with a solid image and ran a very long serious of
              various mezzotint filters across it. Eventually I came up with many many
              levels of possible gray percentages. To make this work on a photograph I would
              need to separate out many levels of gray (or color) from the image;
              essentially take the separations and turn them into solids and then apply the
              "toning effect." These would then all have be put back together. A long
              cumbersome process initially and I will have to script this to make it
              feasible but ultimately no halftone screen is required. I've finished with the
              project that I need this for. Quite amazing piece. Now to see if I've allowed
              enough to compensate for the relief process! I'll let you know how successful
              I've been.

              All best

              Gerald


              > Gerald-
              >
              > I'd love to hear more when you know more. Some questions in the
              > meantime: You scanned an old mezzotint screen and then applied it to an
              > image in photoshop? Is this application what you mean by sequences?
              >
              > Marnie
            • Gerald Lange
              Dear Marnie and Bryce Bryce Thanks for the info. I do have the Adromeda filters, etc. Partly they are a little too quick and dirty and would not get me where I
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 15, 2002
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                Dear Marnie and Bryce

                Bryce

                Thanks for the info. I do have the Adromeda filters, etc. Partly they are a
                little too quick and dirty and would not get me where I needed to go, since
                they weren't intended for what I'm investigating, and also it occurred to me
                that if this was going to be viable (if I were to develop a sequence filter)
                I would need to stay away from third party software (upgrades, incompatibilities
                down the road etc)

                Marnie

                Actually, there is a fly on the wall and he/she is quite bored by it all.

                First, I always work from grayscale never from b/w (bitmap) whenever I work
                from a scan. In fact I will always scan in grayscale not b/w. Mainly, because
                you have no options with b/w and cannot effectively alter it much. But my goal
                is to eventually get to a printable b/w.

                So I am simply separating the grayscale image into the various grays (0-10)
                initially. These all then have to be made to gray at 100% (black). The filters
                are then run across them. A 30% gray will take something like sixty passes
                with altered use of the filters (I have eleven of them). It is an exponential
                nighmare at first, and there is the possibility of greatly differing surface
                treatments, so the variance is even greater. Overlaying any of the grays is
                problematic as the surface is then disturbed so the grays have to be exactly
                separated. But eventually they are sewn together and with the subtle pattern
                they mesh well, as long as the surface pattern for each is consistent.

                I'm not actually recommending anyone go through all this just to get a
                non-halftone screen. Neither would the fly! I was looking for something else
                here. But this is possible, and that I found intriguing.

                Gerald


                Marnie Powers-Torrey wrote:
                >
                > Gerald-
                >
                > I wish I were a fly on your wall. I'm just not clear on exactly what
                > you're up to. I opened Photoshop and found the mezzotint filter to which
                > you're referring. You would then seperate the black and white (for
                > example) into various grays, saving each gray seperately after turning
                > them into solids. Then by applying the "toning affect," you mean you
                > would apply the mezzotint filter to each one? Then put all layers back
                > into one document, flatten the image, and print the negative? I'll stop
                > asking questions until I know if I'm on the right track, then I may have
                > a few more, if you don't mind. I will probably have an undergraduate
                > research assistant this summer to investigate printing photographs via
                > photopolymer on the letterpress, so I may actually be able to give all
                > the helpful voices on this list little helpful hints of my own!
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Marnie

                Marnie, Gerald -
                I can recommend a couple of third party filters that are sold as add-
                ons for Adobe Photoshop: Andromeda Software's Screens Filter and
                Cutline Filter. You just import (camera or scanner) an image, convert
                it to grey scale, then start applying the filter. Both filters offer
                quite a range of options and outputs. Good demos and, I believe,
                downloadable trial versions are available from the Andromeda website.
                I'm not posting this as a promo for a software maker, perhaps just as a
                satisfied customer.
                Regards,
                Bryce Erickson
                Saskatoon, SK Canada
              • Marnie Powers-Torrey
                Gerald- I d love to hear more when you know more. Some questions in the meantime: You scanned an old mezzotint screen and then applied it to an image in
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 15, 2002
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                  Gerald-

                  I'd love to hear more when you know more. Some questions in the
                  meantime: You scanned an old mezzotint screen and then applied it to an
                  image in photoshop? Is this application what you mean by sequences?

                  Marnie

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: bielerpr [mailto:bieler@...]
                  Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 10:51 PM
                  To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Halftones


                  Dear Katie and Marnie

                  This is in response to an old post and stochastic(sp?) filters. I've
                  been screwing around in Photoshop for the last three days with an old
                  mezzotint filter (there are ten variations that need to be worked out
                  in sequence). I've been running these sequences (very subtlely) on a
                  very
                  large image over and over again. Something like my thirty sixth pass now
                  and
                  I am getting close to a screen that I believe will print well
                  letterpress
                  (with care) as a b/w. It seems to share the reticulation of the
                  collotype.
                  I'll go a bit further will this and take a print and let you know.

                  Gerald





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                • Marnie Powers-Torrey
                  Gerald- I wish I were a fly on your wall. I m just not clear on exactly what you re up to. I opened Photoshop and found the mezzotint filter to which you re
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 15, 2002
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                    Gerald-

                    I wish I were a fly on your wall. I'm just not clear on exactly what
                    you're up to. I opened Photoshop and found the mezzotint filter to which
                    you're referring. You would then seperate the black and white (for
                    example) into various grays, saving each gray seperately after turning
                    them into solids. Then by applying the "toning affect," you mean you
                    would apply the mezzotint filter to each one? Then put all layers back
                    into one document, flatten the image, and print the negative? I'll stop
                    asking questions until I know if I'm on the right track, then I may have
                    a few more, if you don't mind. I will probably have an undergraduate
                    research assistant this summer to investigate printing photographs via
                    photopolymer on the letterpress, so I may actually be able to give all
                    the helpful voices on this list little helpful hints of my own!

                    Thanks,
                    Marnie

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Gerald Lange [mailto:bieler@...]
                    Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 4:21 AM
                    To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Halftones


                    Hi Marnie

                    Actually no. I experimented with a solid image and ran a very long
                    serious of
                    various mezzotint filters across it. Eventually I came up with many many
                    levels of possible gray percentages. To make this work on a photograph I
                    would
                    need to separate out many levels of gray (or color) from the image;
                    essentially take the separations and turn them into solids and then
                    apply the
                    "toning effect." These would then all have be put back together. A long
                    cumbersome process initially and I will have to script this to make it
                    feasible but ultimately no halftone screen is required. I've finished
                    with the
                    project that I need this for. Quite amazing piece. Now to see if I've
                    allowed
                    enough to compensate for the relief process! I'll let you know how
                    successful
                    I've been.

                    All best

                    Gerald


                    > Gerald-
                    >
                    > I'd love to hear more when you know more. Some questions in the
                    > meantime: You scanned an old mezzotint screen and then applied it to
                    an
                    > image in photoshop? Is this application what you mean by sequences?
                    >
                    > Marnie



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                  • Marnie Powers-Torrey
                    Gerald, Thanks for your reply. My species of fly would not be bored, although I m sure the hours in front of the screen can be exhausting. I understand some of
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 15, 2002
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                      Gerald,

                      Thanks for your reply. My species of fly would not be bored, although
                      I'm sure the hours in front of the screen can be exhausting. I
                      understand some of what you're saying, and after a point I'm unsure. Do
                      you think that this screening method is superior to the stochastic? Or
                      are you just wanting to stay in house with the negative production?

                      Marnie

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Gerald Lange [mailto:bieler@...]
                      Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 6:36 AM
                      To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Halftones


                      Dear Marnie and Bryce

                      Bryce

                      Thanks for the info. I do have the Adromeda filters, etc. Partly they
                      are a
                      little too quick and dirty and would not get me where I needed to go,
                      since
                      they weren't intended for what I'm investigating, and also it occurred
                      to me
                      that if this was going to be viable (if I were to develop a sequence
                      filter)
                      I would need to stay away from third party software (upgrades,
                      incompatibilities
                      down the road etc)

                      Marnie

                      Actually, there is a fly on the wall and he/she is quite bored by it
                      all.

                      First, I always work from grayscale never from b/w (bitmap) whenever I
                      work
                      from a scan. In fact I will always scan in grayscale not b/w. Mainly,
                      because
                      you have no options with b/w and cannot effectively alter it much. But
                      my goal
                      is to eventually get to a printable b/w.

                      So I am simply separating the grayscale image into the various grays
                      (0-10)
                      initially. These all then have to be made to gray at 100% (black). The
                      filters
                      are then run across them. A 30% gray will take something like sixty
                      passes
                      with altered use of the filters (I have eleven of them). It is an
                      exponential
                      nighmare at first, and there is the possibility of greatly differing
                      surface
                      treatments, so the variance is even greater. Overlaying any of the grays
                      is
                      problematic as the surface is then disturbed so the grays have to be
                      exactly
                      separated. But eventually they are sewn together and with the subtle
                      pattern
                      they mesh well, as long as the surface pattern for each is consistent.

                      I'm not actually recommending anyone go through all this just to get a
                      non-halftone screen. Neither would the fly! I was looking for something
                      else
                      here. But this is possible, and that I found intriguing.

                      Gerald


                      Marnie Powers-Torrey wrote:
                      >
                      > Gerald-
                      >
                      > I wish I were a fly on your wall. I'm just not clear on exactly what
                      > you're up to. I opened Photoshop and found the mezzotint filter to
                      which
                      > you're referring. You would then seperate the black and white (for
                      > example) into various grays, saving each gray seperately after turning
                      > them into solids. Then by applying the "toning affect," you mean you
                      > would apply the mezzotint filter to each one? Then put all layers back
                      > into one document, flatten the image, and print the negative? I'll
                      stop
                      > asking questions until I know if I'm on the right track, then I may
                      have
                      > a few more, if you don't mind. I will probably have an undergraduate
                      > research assistant this summer to investigate printing photographs via
                      > photopolymer on the letterpress, so I may actually be able to give all
                      > the helpful voices on this list little helpful hints of my own!
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      > Marnie

                      Marnie, Gerald -
                      I can recommend a couple of third party filters that are sold as add-
                      ons for Adobe Photoshop: Andromeda Software's Screens Filter and
                      Cutline Filter. You just import (camera or scanner) an image, convert
                      it to grey scale, then start applying the filter. Both filters offer
                      quite a range of options and outputs. Good demos and, I believe,
                      downloadable trial versions are available from the Andromeda website.
                      I'm not posting this as a promo for a software maker, perhaps just as a
                      satisfied customer.
                      Regards,
                      Bryce Erickson
                      Saskatoon, SK Canada



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                    • Roberta Lavadour
                      ). The filters are then run across them. A 30% gray will take something like sixty passes with altered use of the filters (I have eleven of them). It is an
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 15, 2002
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                        ). The filters
                        are then run across them. A 30% gray will take something like sixty passes
                        with altered use of the filters (I have eleven of them). It is an
                        exponential
                        nighmare at first, and there is the possibility of greatly differing
                        surface
                        treatments, so the variance is even greater
                        Gerald -

                        I'm sure you know this already, but wanted to offer it up just in case
                        someone found it helpful. If you want to treat several images with the same
                        series of filters and adjustments, you can perfect the process once then
                        create an 'action' in PhotoShop. For all subsequent images you want to
                        treat, you just initiate the action and all the steps you've programmed
                        proceed automatically. A nice little timesaver.

                        with best wishes,
                        Roberta

                        Pendleton, Oregon
                        paper@...
                        http://www.missioncreekpress.com



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • bielerpr
                        Dear Roberta and Marnie This is going to be the last one on this thread for me. ... Yes, I would expect I d have to script it eventually, but not without
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 15, 2002
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                          Dear Roberta and Marnie

                          This is going to be the last one on this thread for me.

                          > I'm sure you know this already, but wanted to offer it up just in case
                          > someone found it helpful. If you want to treat several images with the same
                          > series of filters and adjustments, you can perfect the process once then
                          > create an 'action' in PhotoShop. For all subsequent images you want to
                          > treat, you just initiate the action and all the steps you've programmed
                          > proceed automatically. A nice little timesaver.
                          >
                          > with best wishes,
                          > Roberta

                          Yes, I would expect I'd have to script it eventually, but not without
                          knowing what to script!!!

                          > Do you think that this screening method is superior to the stochastic? Or
                          >are you just wanting to stay in house with the negative production?

                          >Marnie

                          Well, I'm trying to avoid the use of a screen altogether. Trying to
                          stay inhouse with the image as I want it produced on the neg. In
                          other words, I don't want to be surprised by what the service bureau
                          provides. Don't know if its better than stochastic yet. Looks cool
                          though. Will it work on all photos in a standard way. Don't know.
                          Will it change the look of a photo. Don't know. Maybe in the same way
                          that a collotype would, in the sense of the variability inherent in
                          the production process.

                          All best


                          Gerald

                          ps: Remember all YahooGroup sites will be down for repairs from 9:00
                          Pacific time tonight until sometime Sunday morning. See you all then.
                        • Ed Inman
                          I have printed 100 dpi halftones on my C&P from photopolymer with reasonably good results, although frankly not as good as with offset lithography. One thing
                          Message 12 of 16 , Nov 11, 2003
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                            I have printed 100 dpi halftones on my C&P from photopolymer with reasonably
                            good results, although frankly not as good as with offset lithography.

                            One thing that makes good letterpress halftones more difficult to produce
                            than with offset, I have found, is that while offset lithography halftones
                            will fade to white with the most tiny dot pattern, letterpress plates tend
                            to "drop out" completely to white at much below 15 to 20 percent.

                            This is generally an undesired effect when it occurs within the frame of a
                            normal photograph (unless used for special effect).

                            So when I create a halftone for letterpress from a scan in my computer, I
                            try to make sure that there is a clearly distinguishable dot pattern
                            throughout even the lightest areas of the photo. Fortunately this is easier
                            to accomplish today with software like Photoshop than it was using
                            traditional halftone screens.

                            As a habit I normally print the halftone double size at 50 dpi on my laser
                            printer and then shoot it with my process camera onto traditional lith film
                            at 50 percent to bring the negative down to normal size 100 dpi to plate. I
                            suppose there are less convoluted ways to go about this, but not having a
                            more professional laser printer capable of making good negatives directly
                            from the computer this method works for me.

                            Ed
                          • E Roustom
                            ... 3% (if you re brave), but 5% will generally do the job - up to 133 LPI is all I can vouch for. But I also think the high end needs to brought down too -
                            Message 13 of 16 , Nov 11, 2003
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                              > letterpress plates tend
                              > to "drop out" completely to white at much below 15 to 20 percent.

                              3% (if you're brave), but 5% will generally do the job - up to 133 LPI is
                              all I can vouch for. But I also think the high end needs to brought down too
                              - the black can't be 100%. As for LPI on the C&P, I wouldn't push my luck -
                              yet the C&P catalogue that came with my 1919 8x12 shows halftone images of
                              the presses and the factory (85, maybe 100 LPI) and these are beautiful.
                              The colophon reads: "... [P]rinted on C&P Gordon presses. Paper, plates
                              and type are of average high quality. Make ready and press work represent
                              neither unusual experience nor exceptional effort. Work of this kind can be
                              produced on the C&P press by any practical printer who works with quality in
                              mind."
                              One day, just for fun I will try it.
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