Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Photopolymer holograms

Expand Messages
  • bielerpr
    Picked this up by accident. Anyone know anything about the photopolymer hologram process? http://www.rossbooks.com/HMP6/hmp6feat.html Gerald
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 29, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Picked this up by accident. Anyone know anything about the
      photopolymer hologram process?


      http://www.rossbooks.com/HMP6/hmp6feat.html


      Gerald
    • Katie Harper
      Is anyone out there doing real halftones--ie, accurate, quality reproduction of photographs-- via letterpress with polymer (or other) plates? I m interested
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 30, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        Is anyone out there doing "real" halftones--ie, accurate, quality
        reproduction of photographs-- via letterpress with polymer (or other)
        plates? I'm interested to know if letterpress can compete at all with offset
        in this area, given the right paper, inks, etc.




        Katie Harper
        Ars Brevis Press
        Cincinnati, OH
        513-233-9588
      • Marnie Powers-Torrey
        Katie- We re working on it here in Utah. If it s offset quality you re looking for, I think it s entirely possible. I m shooting for closer to a silver print--
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 30, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Katie-

          We're working on it here in Utah. If it's offset quality you're looking
          for, I think it's entirely possible. I'm shooting for closer to a silver
          print-- fooling the eye as much as possible that there are grays and
          really keeping the appearance of dots to a minimum (perhaps impossible).
          Thus the stochastic screen which mimicks the grain of photo paper (and
          doesn't produce a moire pattern when printing more than one run). Try
          printing intaglio with the polymer-- a trick to wipe but oh so worth it.
          Very fine results.

          Right now we're using smooth paper with very little impression. Keeping
          the inking to a minimum so that the finer detail is less likely to fill
          in. We're still using rubber base ink, and I don't think that's helping
          us. Also, compress the tones of the image in curves of photoshop and
          bump up the contrast a bit before having the negative generated. If we
          come up with any tremendous breakthroughs, I'll keep the list updated.

          Good luck!

          Marnie

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Katie Harper [mailto:knharper@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 6:17 AM
          To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [PPLetterpress] Halftones


          Is anyone out there doing "real" halftones--ie, accurate, quality
          reproduction of photographs-- via letterpress with polymer (or other)
          plates? I'm interested to know if letterpress can compete at all with
          offset
          in this area, given the right paper, inks, etc.




          Katie Harper
          Ars Brevis Press
          Cincinnati, OH
          513-233-9588








          To post a message to the membership, send an email to
          PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com

          To log on to the groupsite (confirmed Yahoo ID required), go to
          http://groups.yahoogroups.com/group/PPLetterpress
          [copious reference sources can be found onsite in Bookmarks (URLs),
          Database (tables), Files (documents), and Messages (archives)]

          Encountering problems? send an email to
          PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com

          To unsubscribe, send an email to
          PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Dan Mayer
          Greetings all, Halftones and bitmap (computer-generated stochastic random dot ‹ a.k.a. diffusion dither bitmap ‹ whew!) can both be easily accomplished
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 30, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Greetings all,

            Halftones and bitmap (computer-generated stochastic random dot ‹ a.k.a.
            diffusion dither bitmap ‹ whew!) can both be easily accomplished with
            polymer plates. The plates are highly receptive to fine detail. (polymer
            can accept more detail than the Vandercook's capability)

            The literature on Toyobo Printight Plates (Anderson Vreeland) suggest a
            halftone resolution at 150 dpi.

            Although printing 150 dpi on the Vandercook will be difficult because the
            plate will fill in. Roller adjustment, ink tack, and paper selection (that
            is smooth paper versus a textured paper) will also be an issue when printing
            halftones.

            Make test plates such as 65, 100, 110, 133 dpi and observe where the plate
            peaks out, that is, fills in.

            Bitmapping is also another possibility with polymer. I have had success with
            printing 300 dpi (computer dpi) bitmapped information. Higher resolution can
            also be attained for bitmapped line work.

            For plate processing (bitmap or not) I use a quasi-low-tech method utilizing
            a bank of 8, 24-inch long High Output UV florescent tubes (with vacuum draw
            sheet) and a brush for hand wash-out.

            For further reading on outputting bitmap from the computer, check out
            "Making Digital Negatives for Contact Printing" by Dan Burkholder.

            Happy Printing

            -- Dan


            Dan Mayer
            Book Arts Printer & Shop Manager
            Pyracantha Press
            School of Art
            Arizona State University
            Tempe, AZ 85287-1505

            480-965-3713
            djmayer@...






            on 1/30/02 6:17 AM, Katie Harper at knharper@... wrote:

            > Is anyone out there doing "real" halftones--ie, accurate, quality
            > reproduction of photographs-- via letterpress with polymer (or other)
            > plates? I'm interested to know if letterpress can compete at all with offset
            > in this area, given the right paper, inks, etc.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Katie Harper
            > Ars Brevis Press
            > Cincinnati, OH
            > 513-233-9588
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To post a message to the membership, send an email to
            > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > To log on to the groupsite (confirmed Yahoo ID required), go to
            > http://groups.yahoogroups.com/group/PPLetterpress
            > [copious reference sources can be found onsite in Bookmarks (URLs),
            > Database (tables), Files (documents), and Messages (archives)]
            >
            > Encountering problems? send an email to
            > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > To unsubscribe, send an email to
            > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
          • Marnie Powers-Torrey
            Katie- I would advise that you give yourself PLENTY of play time before embarking on such a large project. I myself would not be comfortable with taking on
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 1, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Katie-

              I would advise that you give yourself PLENTY of play time before
              embarking on such a large project. I myself would not be comfortable
              with taking on this project yet-- perhaps you have more time and a
              greater sensitivity to problems than I... I'm just not there yet. I
              spoke of a goal, not an actuality.

              If you have access to an etching press, the results are phenonmenal. Of
              course handwiping is much more time consuming, and unless you have a
              army of slaves, a very large run may never get finished. I love intaglio
              images mixed with letterpress text-- exquisite!!

              I want so badly to keep this conversation going with you-- but I am
              afraid that much more research and play time is needed before I can
              offer anything solid. I am feeling the pressure that I leave tomorrow
              for a month-- many, many things to get done today. I will not have
              access to a computer for the entire trip.

              I can tell you that stochastic screen is available at SOME service
              bureaus. It is not used for prepress for offset litho, so you'll need to
              do some calling around.

              I'd like to check out that book that Gerald recommends-- the
              Photogravure with photopolmer info-- "Printing with the Sun?". Gerald
              seems to be quite the resource... as is this list!!

              As far as using a soft, textured paper with plenty of impression-- I
              don't think there's any hope for high resolution images that we're
              talking about. The dot is so fine, that pressure just adds to the dot
              gain and all the details start to fill in. I think rag paper is still a
              possibility, just smooth with little impression-- still I think
              obviously letterpress and not offset in appearance. I've been playing
              around with a paper that Utrecht ARt Supply makes-- "American Printing"
              or something like that. About a dollar a sheet for 22"x30". A little
              stiffer than I'd like, but smooth and gives you that rag appeal.

              Sorry to skirt the issue! I'd love hear how your investigations are
              going and share mine with you... cooperative problem solving... be back
              in March.

              Marnie

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Katie Harper [mailto:knharper@...]
              Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 10:53 AM
              To: Marnie Powers-Torrey
              Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Halftones


              Marnie: Your work intrigues me. It never occurred to me to aim to
              compete
              with the quality of a silver print! I figured offset quality was high
              enough.

              I don't know much about the stocastic screen, although I've heard a
              little.
              Where does one go to get such output from a computer file or scanned
              grayscale image? Do service bureaus routinely provide such a screen or
              is it
              something rare (ie, hard to find!)

              The reason I'm asking is this: I'm in charge of putting together a
              catalog
              for the Cincinnati Book Arts Society's next exhibition. I wanted to make
              it
              a letterpress showpiece, since letterpress is part of our groups main
              focus.
              But I figured that to get quality reproductions of the slides of the
              books
              in the show would require offset printing on smooth paper, not the type
              of
              paper that looks so cool when printed letterpress. And that even on
              smooth
              paper, offset would be better. However, I'd love the opportunity to show
              what letterpress can do. And I'm also not sure we'll be able to get the
              offset printing donated as we have in the past, given current economic
              times.

              Can you give me more specifics on what you are doing?

              Thanks!


              Katie Harper
              Ars Brevis Press
              Cincinnati, OH
              513-233-9588




              > From: "Marnie Powers-Torrey" <marnie.torrey@...>
              > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:08:37 -0700
              > To: "PPletterpress (E-mail)" <PPletterpress@yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Halftones
              >
              >
              >
              > Katie-
              >
              > We're working on it here in Utah. If it's offset quality you're
              looking
              > for, I think it's entirely possible. I'm shooting for closer to a
              silver
              > print-- fooling the eye as much as possible that there are grays and
              > really keeping the appearance of dots to a minimum (perhaps
              impossible).
              > Thus the stochastic screen which mimicks the grain of photo paper (and
              > doesn't produce a moire pattern when printing more than one run). Try
              > printing intaglio with the polymer-- a trick to wipe but oh so worth
              it.
              > Very fine results.
              >
              > Right now we're using smooth paper with very little impression.
              Keeping
              > the inking to a minimum so that the finer detail is less likely to
              fill
              > in. We're still using rubber base ink, and I don't think that's
              helping
              > us. Also, compress the tones of the image in curves of photoshop and
              > bump up the contrast a bit before having the negative generated. If we
              > come up with any tremendous breakthroughs, I'll keep the list updated.
              >
              > Good luck!
              >
              > Marnie
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Katie Harper [mailto:knharper@...]
              > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 6:17 AM
              > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Halftones
              >
              >
              > Is anyone out there doing "real" halftones--ie, accurate, quality
              > reproduction of photographs-- via letterpress with polymer (or other)
              > plates? I'm interested to know if letterpress can compete at all with
              > offset
              > in this area, given the right paper, inks, etc.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Katie Harper
              > Ars Brevis Press
              > Cincinnati, OH
              > 513-233-9588
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To post a message to the membership, send an email to
              > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > To log on to the groupsite (confirmed Yahoo ID required), go to
              > http://groups.yahoogroups.com/group/PPLetterpress
              > [copious reference sources can be found onsite in Bookmarks (URLs),
              > Database (tables), Files (documents), and Messages (archives)]
              >
              > Encountering problems? send an email to
              > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > To unsubscribe, send an email to
              > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              >
              > To post a message to the membership, send an email to
              > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > To log on to the groupsite (confirmed Yahoo ID required), go to
              > http://groups.yahoogroups.com/group/PPLetterpress
              > [copious reference sources can be found onsite in Bookmarks (URLs),
              > Database (tables), Files (documents), and Messages (archives)]
              >
              > Encountering problems? send an email to
              > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > To unsubscribe, send an email to
              > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • Joel Benson
              Katie and Marnie- One thing you can do if you want to print very fine half tones on soft, textured paper is to deboss the image area first. Make a solid
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 1, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                Katie and Marnie-

                One thing you can do if you want to print very fine half tones on soft,
                textured paper is to deboss the image area first. Make a solid printing
                block the exact size of the image and just blind print it with a lot of
                impression to smooth out the texture of the sheet. Too much impression
                and the flattened area will "pillow", which may or may not cause
                problems when you go to overprint the halftone. I would repeat what
                Marnie says below, give yourself plenty of play time!

                I don't know if this would apply to the project at hand, but it may be
                useful in other applications. It does add another whole press run to a
                project, but it can be worthwhile.

                Joel

                Joel Benson
                Dependable Letterpress
                San Francisco

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Marnie Powers-Torrey [mailto:marnie.torrey@...]
                Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 8:18 AM
                To: PPletterpress (E-mail)
                Subject: [PPLetterpress] RE: Halftones


                Katie-

                I would advise that you give yourself PLENTY of play time before
                embarking on such a large project. I myself would not be comfortable
                with taking on this project yet-- perhaps you have more time and a
                greater sensitivity to problems than I... I'm just not there yet. I
                spoke of a goal, not an actuality.

                If you have access to an etching press, the results are phenonmenal. Of
                course handwiping is much more time consuming, and unless you have a
                army of slaves, a very large run may never get finished. I love intaglio
                images mixed with letterpress text-- exquisite!!

                I want so badly to keep this conversation going with you-- but I am
                afraid that much more research and play time is needed before I can
                offer anything solid. I am feeling the pressure that I leave tomorrow
                for a month-- many, many things to get done today. I will not have
                access to a computer for the entire trip.

                I can tell you that stochastic screen is available at SOME service
                bureaus. It is not used for prepress for offset litho, so you'll need to
                do some calling around.

                I'd like to check out that book that Gerald recommends-- the
                Photogravure with photopolmer info-- "Printing with the Sun?". Gerald
                seems to be quite the resource... as is this list!!

                As far as using a soft, textured paper with plenty of impression-- I
                don't think there's any hope for high resolution images that we're
                talking about. The dot is so fine, that pressure just adds to the dot
                gain and all the details start to fill in. I think rag paper is still a
                possibility, just smooth with little impression-- still I think
                obviously letterpress and not offset in appearance. I've been playing
                around with a paper that Utrecht ARt Supply makes-- "American Printing"
                or something like that. About a dollar a sheet for 22"x30". A little
                stiffer than I'd like, but smooth and gives you that rag appeal.

                Sorry to skirt the issue! I'd love hear how your investigations are
                going and share mine with you... cooperative problem solving... be back
                in March.

                Marnie

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Katie Harper [mailto:knharper@...]
                Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 10:53 AM
                To: Marnie Powers-Torrey
                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Halftones


                Marnie: Your work intrigues me. It never occurred to me to aim to
                compete
                with the quality of a silver print! I figured offset quality was high
                enough.

                I don't know much about the stocastic screen, although I've heard a
                little.
                Where does one go to get such output from a computer file or scanned
                grayscale image? Do service bureaus routinely provide such a screen or
                is it
                something rare (ie, hard to find!)

                The reason I'm asking is this: I'm in charge of putting together a
                catalog
                for the Cincinnati Book Arts Society's next exhibition. I wanted to make
                it
                a letterpress showpiece, since letterpress is part of our groups main
                focus.
                But I figured that to get quality reproductions of the slides of the
                books
                in the show would require offset printing on smooth paper, not the type
                of
                paper that looks so cool when printed letterpress. And that even on
                smooth
                paper, offset would be better. However, I'd love the opportunity to show
                what letterpress can do. And I'm also not sure we'll be able to get the
                offset printing donated as we have in the past, given current economic
                times.

                Can you give me more specifics on what you are doing?

                Thanks!


                Katie Harper
                Ars Brevis Press
                Cincinnati, OH
                513-233-9588




                > From: "Marnie Powers-Torrey" <marnie.torrey@...>
                > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:08:37 -0700
                > To: "PPletterpress (E-mail)" <PPletterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Halftones
                >
                >
                >
                > Katie-
                >
                > We're working on it here in Utah. If it's offset quality you're
                looking
                > for, I think it's entirely possible. I'm shooting for closer to a
                silver
                > print-- fooling the eye as much as possible that there are grays and
                > really keeping the appearance of dots to a minimum (perhaps
                impossible).
                > Thus the stochastic screen which mimicks the grain of photo paper (and
                > doesn't produce a moire pattern when printing more than one run). Try
                > printing intaglio with the polymer-- a trick to wipe but oh so worth
                it.
                > Very fine results.
                >
                > Right now we're using smooth paper with very little impression.
                Keeping
                > the inking to a minimum so that the finer detail is less likely to
                fill
                > in. We're still using rubber base ink, and I don't think that's
                helping
                > us. Also, compress the tones of the image in curves of photoshop and
                > bump up the contrast a bit before having the negative generated. If we
                > come up with any tremendous breakthroughs, I'll keep the list updated.
                >
                > Good luck!
                >
                > Marnie
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Katie Harper [mailto:knharper@...]
                > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 6:17 AM
                > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Halftones
                >
                >
                > Is anyone out there doing "real" halftones--ie, accurate, quality
                > reproduction of photographs-- via letterpress with polymer (or other)
                > plates? I'm interested to know if letterpress can compete at all with
                > offset
                > in this area, given the right paper, inks, etc.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Katie Harper
                > Ars Brevis Press
                > Cincinnati, OH
                > 513-233-9588
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > To post a message to the membership, send an email to
                > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > To log on to the groupsite (confirmed Yahoo ID required), go to
                > http://groups.yahoogroups.com/group/PPLetterpress
                > [copious reference sources can be found onsite in Bookmarks (URLs),
                > Database (tables), Files (documents), and Messages (archives)]
                >
                > Encountering problems? send an email to
                > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > To unsubscribe, send an email to
                > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                >
                > To post a message to the membership, send an email to
                > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > To log on to the groupsite (confirmed Yahoo ID required), go to
                > http://groups.yahoogroups.com/group/PPLetterpress
                > [copious reference sources can be found onsite in Bookmarks (URLs),
                > Database (tables), Files (documents), and Messages (archives)]
                >
                > Encountering problems? send an email to
                > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > To unsubscribe, send an email to
                > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >




                To post a message to the membership, send an email to
                PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com

                To log on to the groupsite (confirmed Yahoo ID required), go to
                http://groups.yahoogroups.com/group/PPLetterpress
                [copious reference sources can be found onsite in Bookmarks (URLs),
                Database (tables), Files (documents), and Messages (archives)]

                Encountering problems? send an email to
                PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com

                To unsubscribe, send an email to
                PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • bielerpr
                Dear Katie and Marnie This is in response to an old post and stochastic(sp?) filters. I ve been screwing around in Photoshop for the last three days with an
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 11, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Katie and Marnie

                  This is in response to an old post and stochastic(sp?) filters. I've
                  been screwing around in Photoshop for the last three days with an old
                  mezzotint filter (there are ten variations that need to be worked out
                  in sequence). I've been running these sequences (very subtlely) on a very
                  large image over and over again. Something like my thirty sixth pass now and
                  I am getting close to a screen that I believe will print well letterpress
                  (with care) as a b/w. It seems to share the reticulation of the collotype.
                  I'll go a bit further will this and take a print and let you know.

                  Gerald
                • Gerald Lange
                  Hi Marnie Actually no. I experimented with a solid image and ran a very long serious of various mezzotint filters across it. Eventually I came up with many
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 15, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Marnie

                    Actually no. I experimented with a solid image and ran a very long serious of
                    various mezzotint filters across it. Eventually I came up with many many
                    levels of possible gray percentages. To make this work on a photograph I would
                    need to separate out many levels of gray (or color) from the image;
                    essentially take the separations and turn them into solids and then apply the
                    "toning effect." These would then all have be put back together. A long
                    cumbersome process initially and I will have to script this to make it
                    feasible but ultimately no halftone screen is required. I've finished with the
                    project that I need this for. Quite amazing piece. Now to see if I've allowed
                    enough to compensate for the relief process! I'll let you know how successful
                    I've been.

                    All best

                    Gerald


                    > Gerald-
                    >
                    > I'd love to hear more when you know more. Some questions in the
                    > meantime: You scanned an old mezzotint screen and then applied it to an
                    > image in photoshop? Is this application what you mean by sequences?
                    >
                    > Marnie
                  • Gerald Lange
                    Dear Marnie and Bryce Bryce Thanks for the info. I do have the Adromeda filters, etc. Partly they are a little too quick and dirty and would not get me where I
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 15, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dear Marnie and Bryce

                      Bryce

                      Thanks for the info. I do have the Adromeda filters, etc. Partly they are a
                      little too quick and dirty and would not get me where I needed to go, since
                      they weren't intended for what I'm investigating, and also it occurred to me
                      that if this was going to be viable (if I were to develop a sequence filter)
                      I would need to stay away from third party software (upgrades, incompatibilities
                      down the road etc)

                      Marnie

                      Actually, there is a fly on the wall and he/she is quite bored by it all.

                      First, I always work from grayscale never from b/w (bitmap) whenever I work
                      from a scan. In fact I will always scan in grayscale not b/w. Mainly, because
                      you have no options with b/w and cannot effectively alter it much. But my goal
                      is to eventually get to a printable b/w.

                      So I am simply separating the grayscale image into the various grays (0-10)
                      initially. These all then have to be made to gray at 100% (black). The filters
                      are then run across them. A 30% gray will take something like sixty passes
                      with altered use of the filters (I have eleven of them). It is an exponential
                      nighmare at first, and there is the possibility of greatly differing surface
                      treatments, so the variance is even greater. Overlaying any of the grays is
                      problematic as the surface is then disturbed so the grays have to be exactly
                      separated. But eventually they are sewn together and with the subtle pattern
                      they mesh well, as long as the surface pattern for each is consistent.

                      I'm not actually recommending anyone go through all this just to get a
                      non-halftone screen. Neither would the fly! I was looking for something else
                      here. But this is possible, and that I found intriguing.

                      Gerald


                      Marnie Powers-Torrey wrote:
                      >
                      > Gerald-
                      >
                      > I wish I were a fly on your wall. I'm just not clear on exactly what
                      > you're up to. I opened Photoshop and found the mezzotint filter to which
                      > you're referring. You would then seperate the black and white (for
                      > example) into various grays, saving each gray seperately after turning
                      > them into solids. Then by applying the "toning affect," you mean you
                      > would apply the mezzotint filter to each one? Then put all layers back
                      > into one document, flatten the image, and print the negative? I'll stop
                      > asking questions until I know if I'm on the right track, then I may have
                      > a few more, if you don't mind. I will probably have an undergraduate
                      > research assistant this summer to investigate printing photographs via
                      > photopolymer on the letterpress, so I may actually be able to give all
                      > the helpful voices on this list little helpful hints of my own!
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      > Marnie

                      Marnie, Gerald -
                      I can recommend a couple of third party filters that are sold as add-
                      ons for Adobe Photoshop: Andromeda Software's Screens Filter and
                      Cutline Filter. You just import (camera or scanner) an image, convert
                      it to grey scale, then start applying the filter. Both filters offer
                      quite a range of options and outputs. Good demos and, I believe,
                      downloadable trial versions are available from the Andromeda website.
                      I'm not posting this as a promo for a software maker, perhaps just as a
                      satisfied customer.
                      Regards,
                      Bryce Erickson
                      Saskatoon, SK Canada
                    • Marnie Powers-Torrey
                      Gerald- I d love to hear more when you know more. Some questions in the meantime: You scanned an old mezzotint screen and then applied it to an image in
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 15, 2002
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Gerald-

                        I'd love to hear more when you know more. Some questions in the
                        meantime: You scanned an old mezzotint screen and then applied it to an
                        image in photoshop? Is this application what you mean by sequences?

                        Marnie

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: bielerpr [mailto:bieler@...]
                        Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 10:51 PM
                        To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Halftones


                        Dear Katie and Marnie

                        This is in response to an old post and stochastic(sp?) filters. I've
                        been screwing around in Photoshop for the last three days with an old
                        mezzotint filter (there are ten variations that need to be worked out
                        in sequence). I've been running these sequences (very subtlely) on a
                        very
                        large image over and over again. Something like my thirty sixth pass now
                        and
                        I am getting close to a screen that I believe will print well
                        letterpress
                        (with care) as a b/w. It seems to share the reticulation of the
                        collotype.
                        I'll go a bit further will this and take a print and let you know.

                        Gerald





                        To respond to this message or post a message to the membership:
                        PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com

                        Encountering problems?
                        PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com

                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • Marnie Powers-Torrey
                        Gerald- I wish I were a fly on your wall. I m just not clear on exactly what you re up to. I opened Photoshop and found the mezzotint filter to which you re
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 15, 2002
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Gerald-

                          I wish I were a fly on your wall. I'm just not clear on exactly what
                          you're up to. I opened Photoshop and found the mezzotint filter to which
                          you're referring. You would then seperate the black and white (for
                          example) into various grays, saving each gray seperately after turning
                          them into solids. Then by applying the "toning affect," you mean you
                          would apply the mezzotint filter to each one? Then put all layers back
                          into one document, flatten the image, and print the negative? I'll stop
                          asking questions until I know if I'm on the right track, then I may have
                          a few more, if you don't mind. I will probably have an undergraduate
                          research assistant this summer to investigate printing photographs via
                          photopolymer on the letterpress, so I may actually be able to give all
                          the helpful voices on this list little helpful hints of my own!

                          Thanks,
                          Marnie

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Gerald Lange [mailto:bieler@...]
                          Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 4:21 AM
                          To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Halftones


                          Hi Marnie

                          Actually no. I experimented with a solid image and ran a very long
                          serious of
                          various mezzotint filters across it. Eventually I came up with many many
                          levels of possible gray percentages. To make this work on a photograph I
                          would
                          need to separate out many levels of gray (or color) from the image;
                          essentially take the separations and turn them into solids and then
                          apply the
                          "toning effect." These would then all have be put back together. A long
                          cumbersome process initially and I will have to script this to make it
                          feasible but ultimately no halftone screen is required. I've finished
                          with the
                          project that I need this for. Quite amazing piece. Now to see if I've
                          allowed
                          enough to compensate for the relief process! I'll let you know how
                          successful
                          I've been.

                          All best

                          Gerald


                          > Gerald-
                          >
                          > I'd love to hear more when you know more. Some questions in the
                          > meantime: You scanned an old mezzotint screen and then applied it to
                          an
                          > image in photoshop? Is this application what you mean by sequences?
                          >
                          > Marnie



                          To respond to this message or post a message to the membership:
                          PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com

                          Encountering problems?
                          PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com

                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        • Marnie Powers-Torrey
                          Gerald, Thanks for your reply. My species of fly would not be bored, although I m sure the hours in front of the screen can be exhausting. I understand some of
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 15, 2002
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Gerald,

                            Thanks for your reply. My species of fly would not be bored, although
                            I'm sure the hours in front of the screen can be exhausting. I
                            understand some of what you're saying, and after a point I'm unsure. Do
                            you think that this screening method is superior to the stochastic? Or
                            are you just wanting to stay in house with the negative production?

                            Marnie

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Gerald Lange [mailto:bieler@...]
                            Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 6:36 AM
                            To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Halftones


                            Dear Marnie and Bryce

                            Bryce

                            Thanks for the info. I do have the Adromeda filters, etc. Partly they
                            are a
                            little too quick and dirty and would not get me where I needed to go,
                            since
                            they weren't intended for what I'm investigating, and also it occurred
                            to me
                            that if this was going to be viable (if I were to develop a sequence
                            filter)
                            I would need to stay away from third party software (upgrades,
                            incompatibilities
                            down the road etc)

                            Marnie

                            Actually, there is a fly on the wall and he/she is quite bored by it
                            all.

                            First, I always work from grayscale never from b/w (bitmap) whenever I
                            work
                            from a scan. In fact I will always scan in grayscale not b/w. Mainly,
                            because
                            you have no options with b/w and cannot effectively alter it much. But
                            my goal
                            is to eventually get to a printable b/w.

                            So I am simply separating the grayscale image into the various grays
                            (0-10)
                            initially. These all then have to be made to gray at 100% (black). The
                            filters
                            are then run across them. A 30% gray will take something like sixty
                            passes
                            with altered use of the filters (I have eleven of them). It is an
                            exponential
                            nighmare at first, and there is the possibility of greatly differing
                            surface
                            treatments, so the variance is even greater. Overlaying any of the grays
                            is
                            problematic as the surface is then disturbed so the grays have to be
                            exactly
                            separated. But eventually they are sewn together and with the subtle
                            pattern
                            they mesh well, as long as the surface pattern for each is consistent.

                            I'm not actually recommending anyone go through all this just to get a
                            non-halftone screen. Neither would the fly! I was looking for something
                            else
                            here. But this is possible, and that I found intriguing.

                            Gerald


                            Marnie Powers-Torrey wrote:
                            >
                            > Gerald-
                            >
                            > I wish I were a fly on your wall. I'm just not clear on exactly what
                            > you're up to. I opened Photoshop and found the mezzotint filter to
                            which
                            > you're referring. You would then seperate the black and white (for
                            > example) into various grays, saving each gray seperately after turning
                            > them into solids. Then by applying the "toning affect," you mean you
                            > would apply the mezzotint filter to each one? Then put all layers back
                            > into one document, flatten the image, and print the negative? I'll
                            stop
                            > asking questions until I know if I'm on the right track, then I may
                            have
                            > a few more, if you don't mind. I will probably have an undergraduate
                            > research assistant this summer to investigate printing photographs via
                            > photopolymer on the letterpress, so I may actually be able to give all
                            > the helpful voices on this list little helpful hints of my own!
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            > Marnie

                            Marnie, Gerald -
                            I can recommend a couple of third party filters that are sold as add-
                            ons for Adobe Photoshop: Andromeda Software's Screens Filter and
                            Cutline Filter. You just import (camera or scanner) an image, convert
                            it to grey scale, then start applying the filter. Both filters offer
                            quite a range of options and outputs. Good demos and, I believe,
                            downloadable trial versions are available from the Andromeda website.
                            I'm not posting this as a promo for a software maker, perhaps just as a
                            satisfied customer.
                            Regards,
                            Bryce Erickson
                            Saskatoon, SK Canada



                            To respond to this message or post a message to the membership:
                            PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com

                            Encountering problems?
                            PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com

                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          • Roberta Lavadour
                            ). The filters are then run across them. A 30% gray will take something like sixty passes with altered use of the filters (I have eleven of them). It is an
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 15, 2002
                            • 0 Attachment
                              ). The filters
                              are then run across them. A 30% gray will take something like sixty passes
                              with altered use of the filters (I have eleven of them). It is an
                              exponential
                              nighmare at first, and there is the possibility of greatly differing
                              surface
                              treatments, so the variance is even greater
                              Gerald -

                              I'm sure you know this already, but wanted to offer it up just in case
                              someone found it helpful. If you want to treat several images with the same
                              series of filters and adjustments, you can perfect the process once then
                              create an 'action' in PhotoShop. For all subsequent images you want to
                              treat, you just initiate the action and all the steps you've programmed
                              proceed automatically. A nice little timesaver.

                              with best wishes,
                              Roberta

                              Pendleton, Oregon
                              paper@...
                              http://www.missioncreekpress.com



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • bielerpr
                              Dear Roberta and Marnie This is going to be the last one on this thread for me. ... Yes, I would expect I d have to script it eventually, but not without
                              Message 14 of 16 , Mar 15, 2002
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dear Roberta and Marnie

                                This is going to be the last one on this thread for me.

                                > I'm sure you know this already, but wanted to offer it up just in case
                                > someone found it helpful. If you want to treat several images with the same
                                > series of filters and adjustments, you can perfect the process once then
                                > create an 'action' in PhotoShop. For all subsequent images you want to
                                > treat, you just initiate the action and all the steps you've programmed
                                > proceed automatically. A nice little timesaver.
                                >
                                > with best wishes,
                                > Roberta

                                Yes, I would expect I'd have to script it eventually, but not without
                                knowing what to script!!!

                                > Do you think that this screening method is superior to the stochastic? Or
                                >are you just wanting to stay in house with the negative production?

                                >Marnie

                                Well, I'm trying to avoid the use of a screen altogether. Trying to
                                stay inhouse with the image as I want it produced on the neg. In
                                other words, I don't want to be surprised by what the service bureau
                                provides. Don't know if its better than stochastic yet. Looks cool
                                though. Will it work on all photos in a standard way. Don't know.
                                Will it change the look of a photo. Don't know. Maybe in the same way
                                that a collotype would, in the sense of the variability inherent in
                                the production process.

                                All best


                                Gerald

                                ps: Remember all YahooGroup sites will be down for repairs from 9:00
                                Pacific time tonight until sometime Sunday morning. See you all then.
                              • Ed Inman
                                I have printed 100 dpi halftones on my C&P from photopolymer with reasonably good results, although frankly not as good as with offset lithography. One thing
                                Message 15 of 16 , Nov 11, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I have printed 100 dpi halftones on my C&P from photopolymer with reasonably
                                  good results, although frankly not as good as with offset lithography.

                                  One thing that makes good letterpress halftones more difficult to produce
                                  than with offset, I have found, is that while offset lithography halftones
                                  will fade to white with the most tiny dot pattern, letterpress plates tend
                                  to "drop out" completely to white at much below 15 to 20 percent.

                                  This is generally an undesired effect when it occurs within the frame of a
                                  normal photograph (unless used for special effect).

                                  So when I create a halftone for letterpress from a scan in my computer, I
                                  try to make sure that there is a clearly distinguishable dot pattern
                                  throughout even the lightest areas of the photo. Fortunately this is easier
                                  to accomplish today with software like Photoshop than it was using
                                  traditional halftone screens.

                                  As a habit I normally print the halftone double size at 50 dpi on my laser
                                  printer and then shoot it with my process camera onto traditional lith film
                                  at 50 percent to bring the negative down to normal size 100 dpi to plate. I
                                  suppose there are less convoluted ways to go about this, but not having a
                                  more professional laser printer capable of making good negatives directly
                                  from the computer this method works for me.

                                  Ed
                                • E Roustom
                                  ... 3% (if you re brave), but 5% will generally do the job - up to 133 LPI is all I can vouch for. But I also think the high end needs to brought down too -
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Nov 11, 2003
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    > letterpress plates tend
                                    > to "drop out" completely to white at much below 15 to 20 percent.

                                    3% (if you're brave), but 5% will generally do the job - up to 133 LPI is
                                    all I can vouch for. But I also think the high end needs to brought down too
                                    - the black can't be 100%. As for LPI on the C&P, I wouldn't push my luck -
                                    yet the C&P catalogue that came with my 1919 8x12 shows halftone images of
                                    the presses and the factory (85, maybe 100 LPI) and these are beautiful.
                                    The colophon reads: "... [P]rinted on C&P Gordon presses. Paper, plates
                                    and type are of average high quality. Make ready and press work represent
                                    neither unusual experience nor exceptional effort. Work of this kind can be
                                    produced on the C&P press by any practical printer who works with quality in
                                    mind."
                                    One day, just for fun I will try it.
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.