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contact frames

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  • Inge Bruggeman
    Hello. I m glad to see this list running. I m writing in response to Harold s note: ...All this to say that if you care about the quality of your (expensive)
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 22, 2001
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      Hello.

      I'm glad to see this list running.

      I'm writing in response to Harold's note:
      ...All this to say that if you care about the quality of your (expensive)
      photopolymer plates, you should not use an exposure unit for alt-process...

      In general I would agree that there are more possibilities for problems when
      using 'low tech' means for making photopolymer plates, however, i believe
      that if a person has time to come to understand how the photopolymer plates
      work that there are a variety of set-ups that can work. I have an exposure
      unit that I made myself with a vacuum frame (I got from an old print shop
      that was going out of business). This vacuum frame slides under my exposure
      unit and I use very thin clear vinyl instead of the Kreene stuff. However,
      when I'm teaching I often use contact frames from Freestyle in Los
      Angeles(instead of travelling with an exposure unit or depending on one to
      be there), and have had excellent results, even with delicate type. This
      contact frame is different from the one previously described in that it has
      very strong spring clips that form a strong and even pressure.

      This contact frame has given me better results than many vacuum frames that
      do not have Kreene or clear vinyl.

      I would definitely recommend taking classes in photopolymer platemaking
      though before using alternative platemaking methods because it would end up
      being very expensive, as Harold said.

      Inge Bruggeman

      ********************
      Inge Bruggeman of INK-A! Press
      & Textura Letterpress Printing
      1017 SE 34th Avenue
      Portland, OR 97214

      www.texturaprinting.com



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Katie Harper
      It would appear that there are as many success stories as failure stories with non-standard exposure methods of photopolymer plates. Is this true for washout
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 24, 2001
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        It would appear that there are as many success stories as failure stories
        with "non-standard" exposure methods of photopolymer plates. Is this true
        for washout methods as well? As an educator, I'm often trying to help
        students use plates in less than ideal circumstances (part of the learning
        process is to do it themselves), using a combination of vacuum exposure
        units for general printmaking and hand washout (with Harold's special brush,
        no less!). That combination of non-standard procedures seems to be the kiss
        of death to fine detail or type under 18 points.

        Any hints on increasing success with hand washout?

        Katie Harper
        Cincinnati, OH




        Remember: Book arts will save the world!



        > From: Inge Bruggeman <inge@...>
        > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:37:25 -0700
        > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: [PPLetterpress] contact frames
        >
        > Hello.
        >
        > I'm glad to see this list running.
        >
        > I'm writing in response to Harold's note:
        > ....All this to say that if you care about the quality of your (expensive)
        > photopolymer plates, you should not use an exposure unit for alt-process...
        >
        > In general I would agree that there are more possibilities for problems when
        > using 'low tech' means for making photopolymer plates, however, i believe
        > that if a person has time to come to understand how the photopolymer plates
        > work that there are a variety of set-ups that can work. I have an exposure
        > unit that I made myself with a vacuum frame (I got from an old print shop
        > that was going out of business). This vacuum frame slides under my exposure
        > unit and I use very thin clear vinyl instead of the Kreene stuff. However,
        > when I'm teaching I often use contact frames from Freestyle in Los
        > Angeles(instead of travelling with an exposure unit or depending on one to
        > be there), and have had excellent results, even with delicate type. This
        > contact frame is different from the one previously described in that it has
        > very strong spring clips that form a strong and even pressure.
        >
        > This contact frame has given me better results than many vacuum frames that
        > do not have Kreene or clear vinyl.
        >
        > I would definitely recommend taking classes in photopolymer platemaking
        > though before using alternative platemaking methods because it would end up
        > being very expensive, as Harold said.
        >
        > Inge Bruggeman
        >
        > ********************
        > Inge Bruggeman of INK-A! Press
        > & Textura Letterpress Printing
        > 1017 SE 34th Avenue
        > Portland, OR 97214
        >
        > www.texturaprinting.com
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Joel Benson
        Any hints on increasing success with hand washout? Katie Harper Cincinnati, OH I ve only hand-washed a few plates, when the motor in the washout machine I
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 24, 2001
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          "Any hints on increasing success with hand washout?

          Katie Harper
          Cincinnati, OH"

          I've only hand-washed a few plates, when the motor in the washout
          machine I was using was broken. I just laid the plate face down on the
          brushes and rubbed, and it worked, but I remember it did weaken the
          small stuff (periods) and I had to re-do at least one of them.

          The thing I noticed is that when you expose your image or type or
          whatever, the polymer is not hardened all the way down to the backing
          material. It is only in the post-exposure that the shoulders and the
          under layers of the type/image are hardened. Consequently, during the
          washout, the shoulders of the type are weak, and easily washed away.

          I think the hardened face of the type protects the shoulders from the
          brush when the bristles are oriented close to 90 degrees to the face of
          the plate and only lightly and evenly touching. This precise
          brush-plate contact is harder to maintain by hand, so it is easier to
          undercut your printing surface, allowing things to wash away or get
          substantially weakened.

          The only hint I can offer is light, careful brushing. However, I can
          think of two possible experiments; perhaps someone has already tried
          these and can comment on their results. First, does washing with cold
          water increase resistance to the bristles, allowing the shoulders to
          hold up better? Second, does the thinner plate material hold up better,
          because the initial exposure may harden closer to the backing material?
          The stuff I use is .028 or something, but I know it comes thinner, like
          .020 or some such. Maybe that makes a difference.

          Now my brain is going to be stuck all day on trying to think of a
          homemade jig for holding the plate flat and light against the bristles!
          If I think of something good, I'll post plans!

          Joel Benson
          Dependable Letterpress
          San Francisco
        • Katie Harper
          Thanks to all who have offered hints on washing out by hand. I seem to recall that thinner plate material works better with hand-washing for some reason. I
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 24, 2001
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            Thanks to all who have offered hints on washing out by hand. I seem to
            recall that thinner plate material works better with hand-washing for some
            reason. I always assumed it allowed the washing out to be quicker, with less
            danger of washing away fine detail.

            To hold the plate in place while brushing over it, my old pal Chip Schilling
            in Minneapolis recommends putting down magnetic material in the bottom of a
            photo tray, using adhesive that is not soluble in water, of course. I tried
            this once with that thin magnetic stuff that you can get at Office Depot,
            etc., for putting business cards onto. I was never able to get it to stick
            to the tray, and the magnet on that stuff is very weak, so the plate would
            not stick to it. It was frustrating! But it should work, in theory!

            Katie Harper







            > From: "Joel Benson" <joel.benson@...>
            > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:56:00 -0700
            > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
            > Subject: RE: [PPLetterpress] contact frames
            >
            > "Any hints on increasing success with hand washout?
            >
            > Katie Harper
            > Cincinnati, OH"
            >
            > I've only hand-washed a few plates, when the motor in the washout
            > machine I was using was broken. I just laid the plate face down on the
            > brushes and rubbed, and it worked, but I remember it did weaken the
            > small stuff (periods) and I had to re-do at least one of them.
            >
            > The thing I noticed is that when you expose your image or type or
            > whatever, the polymer is not hardened all the way down to the backing
            > material. It is only in the post-exposure that the shoulders and the
            > under layers of the type/image are hardened. Consequently, during the
            > washout, the shoulders of the type are weak, and easily washed away.
            >
            > I think the hardened face of the type protects the shoulders from the
            > brush when the bristles are oriented close to 90 degrees to the face of
            > the plate and only lightly and evenly touching. This precise
            > brush-plate contact is harder to maintain by hand, so it is easier to
            > undercut your printing surface, allowing things to wash away or get
            > substantially weakened.
            >
            > The only hint I can offer is light, careful brushing. However, I can
            > think of two possible experiments; perhaps someone has already tried
            > these and can comment on their results. First, does washing with cold
            > water increase resistance to the bristles, allowing the shoulders to
            > hold up better? Second, does the thinner plate material hold up better,
            > because the initial exposure may harden closer to the backing material?
            > The stuff I use is .028 or something, but I know it comes thinner, like
            > ..020 or some such. Maybe that makes a difference.
            >
            > Now my brain is going to be stuck all day on trying to think of a
            > homemade jig for holding the plate flat and light against the bristles!
            > If I think of something good, I'll post plans!
            >
            > Joel Benson
            > Dependable Letterpress
            > San Francisco
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • Joel Benson
            The stuff they use for making those signs that stick on doors of cars and trucks is heavier and stronger than the stuff they use for business-card-type
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 24, 2001
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              The stuff they use for making those signs that stick on doors of cars
              and trucks is heavier and stronger than the stuff they use for
              business-card-type magnets. There may be an even heavier-duty product
              out there, since I think this rubber magnet stuff has applications in
              electric motors and other industrial machines, but I wouldn't know how
              to spec it.

              I found a website that sells it pretty cheap, but it may be easier to
              get the small piece you need from a local sign shop.

              http://www.beacongraphics.com/magnetic.html

              Joel Benson
            • Gerald Lange
              Dear Joel and all You can get rubber magnetic sheeting of the type used in plate washout units and also, I understand, on the PatMag, from Anderson & Vreeland
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 24, 2001
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                Dear Joel and all

                You can get rubber magnetic sheeting of the type used in plate washout
                units and also, I understand, on the PatMag, from Anderson & Vreeland
                (tradenamed MagBack), and I suspect from other plate processing
                machine manufacturers. It can be glued down with contact cement (to a
                sheet of 3/8 inch Plexiglas) for water washout uses. Bunting Magnetics
                also sells an amazing variety of the stuff, whatever configuration you
                can come up with, they have it. Handy stuff, we use it all around the
                shop. Recently needed to raise a glass collotype plate to about type
                high on an iron hand press. Stuff worked great. One piece double
                sticked to the glas and away you go, with the added benefit of some
                useful resiliance under pressure of the platen.

                Ger


                "Joel Benson" <joel.benson@p...> wrote:
                > The stuff they use for making those signs that stick on doors of cars
                > and trucks is heavier and stronger than the stuff they use for
                > business-card-type magnets. There may be an even heavier-duty product
                > out there, since I think this rubber magnet stuff has applications in
                > electric motors and other industrial machines, but I wouldn't know how
                > to spec it.
              • D. McNaughton
                Years ago I had a commercial photopolymer unit that had a stainless steel plate that was slid into the washout tank. The PP plate was attached to this plate
                Message 7 of 7 , Aug 26, 2001
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                  Years ago I had a commercial photopolymer unit that had a stainless steel
                  plate that was slid into the washout tank. The PP plate was attached to this
                  plate with 3M(I think) Tessa 10 double sided tape so I would think that a
                  similar idea in a tray for hand washing would work ok.

                  David McNaughton
                  Toora Australia

                  > From: Katie Harper <knharper@...>
                  > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:20:10 -0400
                  > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] contact frames
                  >
                  > Thanks to all who have offered hints on washing out by hand. I seem to
                  > recall that thinner plate material works better with hand-washing for some
                  > reason. I always assumed it allowed the washing out to be quicker, with less
                  > danger of washing away fine detail.
                  >
                  > To hold the plate in place while brushing over it, my old pal Chip Schilling
                  > in Minneapolis recommends putting down magnetic material in the bottom of a
                  > photo tray, using adhesive that is not soluble in water, of course. I tried
                  > this once with that thin magnetic stuff that you can get at Office Depot,
                  > etc., for putting business cards onto. I was never able to get it to stick
                  > to the tray, and the magnet on that stuff is very weak, so the plate would
                  > not stick to it. It was frustrating! But it should work, in theory!
                  >
                  > Katie Harper
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >> From: "Joel Benson" <joel.benson@...>
                  >> Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  >> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:56:00 -0700
                  >> To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                  >> Subject: RE: [PPLetterpress] contact frames
                  >>
                  >> "Any hints on increasing success with hand washout?
                  >>
                  >> Katie Harper
                  >> Cincinnati, OH"
                  >>
                  >> I've only hand-washed a few plates, when the motor in the washout
                  >> machine I was using was broken. I just laid the plate face down on the
                  >> brushes and rubbed, and it worked, but I remember it did weaken the
                  >> small stuff (periods) and I had to re-do at least one of them.
                  >>
                  >> The thing I noticed is that when you expose your image or type or
                  >> whatever, the polymer is not hardened all the way down to the backing
                  >> material. It is only in the post-exposure that the shoulders and the
                  >> under layers of the type/image are hardened. Consequently, during the
                  >> washout, the shoulders of the type are weak, and easily washed away.
                  >>
                  >> I think the hardened face of the type protects the shoulders from the
                  >> brush when the bristles are oriented close to 90 degrees to the face of
                  >> the plate and only lightly and evenly touching. This precise
                  >> brush-plate contact is harder to maintain by hand, so it is easier to
                  >> undercut your printing surface, allowing things to wash away or get
                  >> substantially weakened.
                  >>
                  >> The only hint I can offer is light, careful brushing. However, I can
                  >> think of two possible experiments; perhaps someone has already tried
                  >> these and can comment on their results. First, does washing with cold
                  >> water increase resistance to the bristles, allowing the shoulders to
                  >> hold up better? Second, does the thinner plate material hold up better,
                  >> because the initial exposure may harden closer to the backing material?
                  >> The stuff I use is .028 or something, but I know it comes thinner, like
                  >> ..020 or some such. Maybe that makes a difference.
                  >>
                  >> Now my brain is going to be stuck all day on trying to think of a
                  >> homemade jig for holding the plate flat and light against the bristles!
                  >> If I think of something good, I'll post plans!
                  >>
                  >> Joel Benson
                  >> Dependable Letterpress
                  >> San Francisco
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  >> PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
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