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Can anyone ID this typeface?

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  • Ed Inman
    Can anyone identify this typeface? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/files/nitrate8.jpg It is a title frame from an old silent movie. thank you, Ed
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 26, 2004
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      Can anyone identify this typeface?

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/files/nitrate8.jpg

      It is a title frame from an old silent movie.

      thank you,
      Ed

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Paul W Romaine
      Ed, what makes you think it wasn t handlettered by an artist? To my eye, the first g in going does not match any other g. The open quotes look very
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 26, 2004
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        Ed, what makes you think it wasn't handlettered by an artist? To my
        eye, the first "g" in "going" does not match any other "g." The open
        quotes look very different from the close quotes. The "n" in evening
        seems to overlap the "g"--doesn't it? Would it make sense to set it
        in type and print one or two copies for filming, rather than letter
        this by hand on a card with white ink or paint? Thre were a lot of
        commercial art schools with starving students and instructors. For
        one-off work, where photography would provide the multiplication of
        images, it might make more sense to handletter something quickly, film
        the card, and then toss it.

        But I don't know and I could be wrong. At a guess, you might find
        something similar from a regional foundry.

        Best regards,
        Paul
        (Who writes this remembering that his grandfather lettered signs on
        the "El" in the teens and twenties)
      • Ed Inman
        ... Good point. Regardless, it may likely have been fashioned after metal a typeface of the era even if it was drawn, don t you think? I know Charlie Chaplin
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 26, 2004
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          > [Original Message]
          > From: Paul W Romaine <romaine@...>
          > Ed, what makes you think it wasn't handlettered by an artist?

          Good point. Regardless, it may likely have been fashioned after metal a
          typeface of the era even if it was drawn, don't you think? I know Charlie
          Chaplin films often use Parsons. This face definitely isn't parsons,
          although there are similarities.
          Anyone else have a clue?
          thanks,
          Ed
        • Gerald Lange
          Ed Paul is probably right about this. Most likely it was handlettered. Several metal typefaces of the early twentieth century were based on hand lettering and
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 26, 2004
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            Ed

            Paul is probably right about this. Most likely it was handlettered.
            Several metal typefaces of the early twentieth century were based on
            hand lettering and sign painting. The Chicago group inspired a lot of
            folks. Parsons was based on sign painting as I recall and was designed
            by Will Ransom(sp?), a bud of Oz Cooper. Both Chicago folks if I
            remember that correctly.

            Gerald


            > > Ed, what makes you think it wasn't handlettered by an artist?
            >
            > Good point. Regardless, it may likely have been fashioned after metal a
            > typeface of the era even if it was drawn, don't you think? I know
            Charlie
            > Chaplin films often use Parsons. This face definitely isn't parsons,
            > although there are similarities.
            > Anyone else have a clue?
            > thanks,
            > Ed
          • Peter Fraterdeus
            I can t find the file! Says The requested file or directory is not found on the server ... -- AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 26, 2004
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              I can't find the file!
              Says "The requested file or directory is not found on the server"

              >Can anyone identify this typeface?
              >
              >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/files/nitrate8.jpg
              >
              >It is a title frame from an old silent movie.
              >
              >thank you,
              >Ed
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >


              --
              AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@

              Peter Fraterdeus http://www.fraterdeus.com http://www.galenaphotos.com

              http://www.semiotx.com Web Strategy Consulting
              "Words that work."(tm) Communication Design and Typography
            • Gerald Lange
              Peter If you are looking through the Files section it would have fallen to the very bottom of the list unless it was put in a folder (the folders are tricked
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 26, 2004
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                Peter

                If you are looking through the Files section it would have fallen to
                the very bottom of the list unless it was put in a folder (the folders
                are "tricked up" a bit so that they follow a hierarchy). But you
                should be able to view it by clicking on the URL that Ed provided.

                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/files/nitrate8.jpg

                Gerald

                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@d...>
                wrote:
                > I can't find the file!
                > Says "The requested file or directory is not found on the server"
                >
                > >Can anyone identify this typeface?
                > >
                > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/files/nitrate8.jpg
                > >
                > >It is a title frame from an old silent movie.
                > >
                > >thank you,
                > >Ed
                > >
                > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > --
                > AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
                >
                > Peter Fraterdeus http://www.fraterdeus.com
                http://www.galenaphotos.com
                >
                > http://www.semiotx.com Web Strategy Consulting
                > "Words that work."(tm) Communication Design and Typography
              • Paul W Romaine
                Ed, Styles of writing aren t always based on type. Look at James Mosley s (and now Justin Howe s) research on the origins of Egyptian (sans serif) types in
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 26, 2004
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                  Ed, Styles of writing aren't always based on type. Look at James
                  Mosley's (and now Justin Howe's) research on the origins of "Egyptian"
                  (sans serif) types in England. Based on stone carving and
                  engravings/etchings of signs, it's pretty clear that the fashion had
                  started earlier and that Figgins and Caslon are supplying something
                  pre-existing that people want to imitate in display typography.

                  Nevertheless, I think Gerald's suspicion of a Chicago influence sounds
                  right. Parsons looks like a thickened and less ornate version of this
                  script, and I've seen something that looks reminiscent of it (and
                  which isn't Parsons). Maybe a regional foundry, before the ATF
                  takeover might have something that would fit the bill? (And my copy of
                  MacGrew is buried, so I can't look there.)

                  A NY designer-printer-calligrapher friend once showed me the business
                  card he designed for another printer, and asked me to identify the
                  typeface. You'd swear that it was set in an oddball Venetian, and
                  you'd be wrong, because the entire thing was written and drawn, then
                  reproduced via zinc plate.

                  And if you're interested in getting a digital version, there are a
                  number of type founder folks on this list. (Hint, hint!)

                  Good luck!
                  All best,
                  Paul

                  > > From: Paul W Romaine <romaine@p...>
                  > > Ed, what makes you think it wasn't handlettered by an artist?
                  >
                  > Good point. Regardless, it may likely have been fashioned after
                  metal a
                  > typeface of the era even if it was drawn, don't you think? I know
                  Charlie
                  > Chaplin films often use Parsons. This face definitely isn't
                  parsons,
                  > although there are similarities.
                • Peter Fraterdeus
                  Hmm. Thanks. Now I wonder why a jpg would download instead of displaying in the browser, but whatever ;-) This is certainly hand-lettered. The three y s in
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 27, 2004
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                    Hmm. Thanks. Now I wonder why a jpg would download instead of displaying in the browser, but whatever ;-)

                    This is certainly hand-lettered. The three 'y's in the last line are all different. There were large lettering departments in Hollywood dedicated to movie titles, well into the 50s. (I only know by looking at Hitchcock titles, for instance.)

                    P

                    At 6:54 AM +0000 2004-11-27, Gerald Lange wrote:
                    >Peter
                    >
                    >If you are looking through the Files section it would have fallen to
                    >the very bottom of the list unless it was put in a folder (the folders
                    >are "tricked up" a bit so that they follow a hierarchy). But you
                    >should be able to view it by clicking on the URL that Ed provided.
                    >
                    >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/files/nitrate8.jpg
                    >
                    >Gerald
                    >
                    > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@d...>
                    >wrote:
                    >> I can't find the file!
                    >> Says "The requested file or directory is not found on the server"
                    >>
                    >> >Can anyone identify this typeface?
                    >> >
                    >> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/files/nitrate8.jpg
                    >> >
                    >> >It is a title frame from an old silent movie.
                    >> >
                    >> >thank you,
                    >> >Ed
                    >> >
                    >> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> --
                    >> AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
                    >>
                    >> Peter Fraterdeus http://www.fraterdeus.com
                    >http://www.galenaphotos.com
                    >>
                    >> http://www.semiotx.com Web Strategy Consulting
                    >> "Words that work."(tm) Communication Design and Typography
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    --
                    AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@

                    Peter Fraterdeus http://www.fraterdeus.com http://www.galenaphotos.com

                    http://www.semiotx.com Web Strategy Consulting
                    "Words that work."(tm) Communication Design and Typography
                  • Peter Fraterdeus
                    ... Ahem. That should be... Type is not always based on a style of writing ;-) (the calligrapher/paleographer perspective...) I would strongly suggest that the
                    Message 9 of 10 , Nov 27, 2004
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                      At 7:47 AM +0000 2004-11-27, Paul W Romaine wrote:
                      >Ed, Styles of writing aren't always based on type.

                      Ahem.
                      That should be... Type is not always based on a style of writing ;-)
                      (the calligrapher/paleographer perspective...)

                      I would strongly suggest that the letters in question are most likely a precursor, if anything, to Parsons, et al.
                      The art of store window lettering was the 'font' business of the earlier age!
                      I seem to remember that the old Speedball handbook (from the pen makers) had a style similar to this, no doubt from the sign-writing tradition.

                      Cheers.
                      P


                      --
                      AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@

                      Peter Fraterdeus http://www.fraterdeus.com http://www.galenaphotos.com

                      http://www.semiotx.com Web Strategy Consulting
                      "Words that work."(tm) Communication Design and Typography
                    • David Goodrich
                      I think Paul is right. There are too many overlapping letters for printing. I have seen other quaint lettering styles used for silent movies that I couldn t
                      Message 10 of 10 , Nov 28, 2004
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                        I think Paul is right. There are too many overlapping letters for printing.
                        I have seen other quaint lettering styles used for silent movies that I
                        couldn't identify.
                        There was a lot of "artistic" lettering similar to this in the early 20th
                        century. Architects for example used a style on blueprints that was not a
                        copy of any typeface. Rather than Parsons, I would say it resembles Cushing
                        No. 2, but is not exact.
                        David
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