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ink for solids on dampened handmade paper

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  • Erik Desmyter
    I am experimenting with a 12 x16 Boxcar polymer plate on traditional iron handpresses. The polymer plate has about 60% solids and no text. I use a handroll,
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 1, 2004
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      I am experimenting with a 12"x16" Boxcar polymer plate on traditional iron
      handpresses. The polymer plate has about 60% solids and no text. I use a
      handroll, only black ink and I am printing on traditional dampened handmade
      paper. From former e-mails I learned printmakers' stone litho inks (very
      stiff, sticky inks with loads of tack) should work well for solids in such a
      combination. Names mentioned were Charbonnel, Mandlick or Carlson Woodblock
      Black. The Handschy Crayon Black BK-8035 was more recommended for text work

      I am actually looking for experiences with such inks and for ink
      specifications and suppliers.

      Best regards,
      Erik Desmyter
      Gent, Belgium
      erik.desmyter@...
    • Sgheaver@aol.com
      Dear Eric, I recommend you try the Hostmann-Steinberg Letterpress Matte Black which the US branch developed for me for use on hand press &c. and I eventually
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 4, 2004
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        Dear Eric,

        I recommend you try the Hostmann-Steinberg Letterpress Matte Black which
        the US branch developed for me for use on hand press &c. and I eventually
        turned over to N.A.Graphics for sale. My next choice would be Charbonnel
        without dryer but that it a lot of work on the plate and does not hold as good a
        line or stay open as long as the H-S. Are you a members of Fine Press Book
        Association? I've written too articles on the subject of ink characteristics
        which you may find helpful.

        Sincerely yours,
        Stephen Heaver
        Baltimore, Md., USA


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Erik Desmyter
        Stephen, Do you recommend the Hostmann-Steinberg Letterpress Matte Black both for text and for large solids? In my 12 x16 plate there is about 60% solid black
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 5, 2004
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          Stephen,

          Do you recommend the Hostmann-Steinberg Letterpress Matte Black both for
          text and for large solids? In my 12"x16" plate there is about 60% solid
          black and there are even areas up to 4"x3" which are completely black. I
          doubt it is a good idea to print text together with such a plate at the same
          time.

          I am not a member of Fine Press Book Association but I am interested in your
          articles.

          Best regards,
          Erik Desmyter
          Gent, Belgium
          erik.desmyter@...

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <Sgheaver@...>
          To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:10 AM
          Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] ink for solids on dampened handmade paper


          Dear Eric,

          I recommend you try the Hostmann-Steinberg Letterpress Matte Black
          which
          the US branch developed for me for use on hand press &c. and I eventually
          turned over to N.A.Graphics for sale. My next choice would be Charbonnel
          without dryer but that it a lot of work on the plate and does not hold as
          good a
          line or stay open as long as the H-S. Are you a members of Fine Press Book
          Association? I've written too articles on the subject of ink
          characteristics
          which you may find helpful.

          Sincerely yours,
          Stephen Heaver
          Baltimore, Md., USA
        • Erik Desmyter
          It took me a while to find Charbonnel s website (they are now part of Lefranc & Bourgeois) but this is what they offer:
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 6, 2004
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            It took me a while to find Charbonnel's website (they are now part of
            Lefranc & Bourgeois) but this is what they offer:

            http://www.lefranc-bourgeois.com/catalogue_va/index.php?gam_cle=56&s_gam_cle
            =123&t_gam_cle=130

            Charbonnel proposes 3 types of black ink, each has a specific function :
            Litho Crayon black, Litho Drawing black and Litho Velvet black. The
            varnishes are used to alter the consistency of the inks and thereby modify
            the final apparance of the work. 30 poise Varnish will thin the inks and
            make them more transparent. 200 poise Strong Varnish is used for thickening
            the consistency.

            I remember also old e-mails about Charbonnel Litho Roll-Up Black (Noir A
            Monter) but didn't find this on their website.

            Which one is the correct one to use?
            Will the 30 poise Varnish do the same as Setswell Compound?

            Erik

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <Sgheaver@...>
            To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:10 AM
            Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] ink for solids on dampened handmade paper


            Dear Eric,

            I recommend you try the Hostmann-Steinberg Letterpress Matte Black
            which
            the US branch developed for me for use on hand press &c. and I eventually
            turned over to N.A.Graphics for sale. My next choice would be Charbonnel
            without dryer but that it a lot of work on the plate and does not hold as
            good a
            line or stay open as long as the H-S. Are you a members of Fine Press Book
            Association? I've written too articles on the subject of ink
            characteristics
            which you may find helpful.

            Sincerely yours,
            Stephen Heaver
            Baltimore, Md., USA
          • Sgheaver@aol.com
            Dear Erik, The Charbonnel Crayon Litho, ordered sans dryer, is the one you want. The Velvet is too oily; the other I don t know. I would consider the large
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 6, 2004
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              Dear Erik,

              The Charbonnel Crayon Litho, ordered sans dryer, is the one you want.
              The Velvet is too oily; the other I don't know.
              I would consider the large solid black area a little risky to do with
              the type block as the roller would be robbed of its ink before it rolled over
              the type, depending upon which way you were going, of course! I think you
              would find your proposed approach very tough to win, however, hand press work
              being what it is, namely the ultimate control, you could undertake this
              'challenge' by using a second roller charged just for the dense block.
              We emailed each other several years ago about Stanhopes, perhaps. I
              don't remember.
              Hope this helps.

              Best wishes, Steve


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • John Sullivan
              This is not a romantic ink like you have been discussing but Gans Ink makes a Letterpress ink in one pound cans called LPR Heavy bond Black the SO# 572063.
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 7, 2004
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                This is not a "romantic" ink like you have been discussing but Gans Ink
                makes a Letterpress ink in one pound cans called LPR Heavy bond Black
                the SO# 572063. (T.800-421-6167) Very stiff oil base, (will dry on any
                paper and your rollers). This ink is thixotropic and needs to be well
                worked either in the roller train on press or vigorously on the glass
                when you are rolling out. Adding oils is counter productive, you will
                want a heavy ink film that will "split" easily when printing. Ink tack
                lowers as film thickness increases.
                The substrate (stuff formerly known as paper) will play a big roll in
                how your ink "holds out" which is what you need for a creditable
                looking solid. Strathmore Wove double weight cover takes heavy coverage
                very well, and my current favorite sheet is Fox River's Coronado SST
                130lb vellum. I have letterpress printed PMS 877 silver on this sheet
                and it rivals foil stamping in it brightness.
                On Friday, August 6, 2004, at 07:30 PM, Sgheaver@... wrote:

                John Sullivan
                offset and letterpress

                > Dear Erik,
                >
                > ��� The Charbonnel Crayon Litho, ordered sans dryer, is� the one you
                > want.
                > The Velvet is too oily; the other I don't know.
                > ��� I would consider the large solid black area a� little risky to do
                > with
                > the type block as the roller would be robbed of its ink� before it
                > rolled over
                > the type, depending upon which way you were going, of� course! I think
                > you
                > would find your proposed approach very tough to win,� however, hand
                > press work
                > being what it is, namely the ultimate control, you� could undertake
                > this
                > 'challenge' by using a second roller charged just for the� dense block.
                > ��� We emailed each other several years ago about� Stanhopes, perhaps.
                > I
                > don't remember.
                > Hope this helps.
                >
                > Best wishes, Steve
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                <image.tiff>
                >
                >
                <image.tiff>
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/
                > �
                > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > �
                > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Gerald Lange
                John Do you know if this ink is made by Gans or is made by someone else for them? Gerald
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 7, 2004
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                  John

                  Do you know if this ink is made by Gans or is made by someone else for them?

                  Gerald

                  John Sullivan wrote:

                  >This is not a "romantic" ink like you have been discussing but Gans Ink
                  >makes a Letterpress ink in one pound cans called LPR Heavy bond Black
                  >the SO# 572063. (T.800-421-6167) Very stiff oil base, (will dry on any
                  >paper and your rollers). This ink is thixotropic and needs to be well
                  >worked either in the roller train on press or vigorously on the glass
                  >when you are rolling out. Adding oils is counter productive, you will
                  >want a heavy ink film that will "split" easily when printing. Ink tack
                  >lowers as film thickness increases.
                  >The substrate (stuff formerly known as paper) will play a big roll in
                  >how your ink "holds out" which is what you need for a creditable
                  >looking solid. Strathmore Wove double weight cover takes heavy coverage
                  >very well, and my current favorite sheet is Fox River's Coronado SST
                  >130lb vellum. I have letterpress printed PMS 877 silver on this sheet
                  >and it rivals foil stamping in it brightness.
                  >On Friday, August 6, 2004, at 07:30 PM, Sgheaver@... wrote:
                  >
                  >John Sullivan
                  >offset and letterpress
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • John Sullivan
                  Gans is a major ink manufacturer with several plants around the country, this is an ink they developed specifically for letterpress numbering on all
                  Message 8 of 9 , Aug 7, 2004
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                    Gans is a major ink manufacturer with several plants around the
                    country, this is an ink they developed specifically for letterpress
                    numbering on all substrates. It has a high pigment to vehicle ratio and
                    is full bodied. With "work" you will see it lengthen. So if you are
                    working the ink on a glass keep spreading and piling with the ink knife
                    till you feel it start to flow, then start your roll out. It will skin
                    if left for and hour or so.
                    john s
                    On Saturday, August 7, 2004, at 11:47 AM, Gerald Lange wrote:

                    > John
                    >
                    > Do you know if this ink is made by Gans or is made by someone else for
                    > them?
                    >
                    > Gerald
                    >
                    > John Sullivan wrote:
                    >
                    > >This is not a "romantic" ink like you have been discussing but Gans
                    > Ink
                    > >makes a Letterpress ink in one pound cans called LPR Heavy bond Black
                    > >the SO# 572063. (T.800-421-6167) Very stiff oil base, (will dry on any
                    > >paper and your rollers). This ink is thixotropic and needs to be well
                    > >worked either in the roller train on press or vigorously on the glass
                    > >when you are rolling out. Adding oils is counter productive, you will
                    > >want a heavy ink film that will "split" easily when printing. Ink tack
                    > >lowers as film thickness increases.
                    > >The substrate (stuff formerly known as paper) will play a big roll in
                    > >how your ink "holds out" which is what you need for a creditable
                    > >looking solid. Strathmore Wove double weight cover takes heavy
                    > coverage
                    > >very well, and my current favorite sheet is Fox River's Coronado SST
                    > >130lb vellum. I have letterpress printed PMS 877 silver on this sheet
                    > >and it rivals foil stamping in it brightness.
                    > >On Friday, August 6, 2004, at 07:30� PM, Sgheaver@... wrote:
                    > >
                    > >John Sullivan
                    > >offset and letterpress
                    > >
                    > >�
                    > >
                    > >�
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    <image.tiff>
                    >
                    >
                    <image.tiff>
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/
                    > �
                    > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > �
                    > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Gerald Lange
                    John I first heard the word splitting in regard to ink from my roller rep. Later on, while working with the collotype process and coming to understand the
                    Message 9 of 9 , Aug 7, 2004
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                      John

                      I first heard the word splitting in regard to ink from my roller rep.
                      Later on, while working with the collotype process and coming to
                      understand the varieties of hand inking techniques, it became apparent
                      that the hardness of the roller/s, as well as speed and pressure of
                      application have a lot to do with splitting as well. Not to mention
                      humidity and temperature, and as you mention, duration. Like
                      substrate, method of transfer also plays "a big roll."

                      Gerald

                      >...This ink is thixotropic and needs to be well
                      > worked either in the roller train on press or vigorously on the glass
                      > when you are rolling out. Adding oils is counter productive, you will
                      > want a heavy ink film that will "split" easily when printing. Ink tack
                      > lowers as film thickness increases.
                      > The substrate (stuff formerly known as paper) will play a big roll in
                      > how your ink "holds out" which is what you need for a creditable
                      > looking solid....
                      >
                      > John Sullivan
                      > offset and letterpress
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