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Re: [PPLetterpress] heavy ink coverage problem

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  • typetom@aol.com
    Hi Roderick, You don t mention what kind of paper you are printing. Perhaps a different paper would work, but one likely solution is to dampen the paper.
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 11, 2004
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      Hi Roderick,
      You don't mention what kind of paper you are printing. Perhaps a different
      paper would work, but one likely solution is to dampen the paper. Slight
      moisture opens the fibers and lets the ink in -- takes about a third as much ink to
      print solid on dampened paper.

      Various methods can be used to dampen the sheets. I spray very lightly with
      water in a squeeze bottle and then wrap the sheets together in a plastic bag
      and leave over-night with a board on top. Too much weight can keep the moisture
      from equalizing, but a little weight helps keep it flat. Other methods involve
      using a damp sponge or even dipping the sheets; often only every other sheet
      or every 3 or 5 sheets may be enough, if it has enough time to equalize
      throughout. Too much water, beads still remaining on the surface, will interfere
      with inking, and might allow a tacky ink to pull the fibers apart as it is
      printed. Just soft and cool to the cheek is probably damp enough.

      You also have to keep the stack of paper from drying as you print. And two
      color registration may be impossible as the sheets swell and shrink with the
      amount of moisture.

      Then of course you have to leave time for the paper to dry, again under the
      weight of a board or two, sometimes several days, with repeated shuffling of
      the order of the sheets, since they will dry first from the edges. Rather
      involved process perhaps, taking some experience to get the right touch, but it may
      answer your dilemma.

      Otherwise, increased ink and increased pressure are the options. Some designs
      really call for offset or computer printing despite the high fashion mystique
      of letterpress. I had one designer give me a similar job with paper that had
      a watermark. Every fourth or fifth print said 100% COTTON RAG in the black
      ink. I had to get more paper and throw out half the run. The idea of the effect
      of different thicknesses in the paper just never occured to the designer
      accustomed to his laser printer.
      Best wishes!
      Tom

      Tom Parson
      Now It's Up To You Publications
      157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
      (303) 777-8951
      http://members.aol.com/typetom


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Gerald Lange
      Roderick Were your plates exposed lean (less exposure) for the solid or more of a medium exposure for the type? You might need to run lean to allow for a
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 12, 2004
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        Roderick

        Were your plates exposed "lean" (less exposure) for the solid or more
        of a "medium" exposure for the type? You might need to run lean to
        allow for a more open and inclined substructure relief. And perhaps a
        tad longer washout. This is somewhat the real problem with
        photopolymer, having to sacrifice surface qualities for subsurface
        qualities, or vica versa. Running lean would mean losing some of the
        quality of the letterform (thinness/sharpness) but it might allow you
        to work acceptably with the solid without filling in the knocked-out type.

        Gerald

        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "rxchow" <rxchow@y...> wrote:
        > I have a vexing problem. I'm printing labels whose text is knocked-out
        > (reversed) and my results are far less than optimal because of the
        > requisite heavy ink coverage. I've inked the rollers twice. Did an
        > overprint. Added a lot of ink to the rollers. I'm stuck between lots
        > of transparency (extremely unacceptable) and muddled serifs. The label
        > size is approx. 3 by 4.5 inches.
        >
        > What are my options other than asking for a redesign and printing
        > offset? I'm printing with polymer plates on a Vandy 219 with a
        > non-adjustable bed. Help please!
        >
        > Thank you in advance, Roderick
      • Printer
        At risk of stating the obvious, orient the form so that the cylinder is parallel to the shorter dimension of the solid area. The pressure is distributed in a
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 13, 2004
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          At risk of stating the obvious, orient the form so that the cylinder is
          parallel to the shorter dimension of the solid area. The pressure is
          distributed in a stripe across the form, so the press has more ooomph if
          the stripe is going across the 3" rather than 4.5". Perhaps this, in
          combination with double inking or a double hit will pull it off. I hope
          you're not doing these 2- or 3- or 4-up!

          Other suggestions posted sound good. I have heard stories of printers
          who will print this kind of thing offset, then hit it blind on the
          letterpress to create the impression that is desired.

          Joel Benson
          Dependable Letterpress
          San Francisco

          rxchow wrote:

          >I have a vexing problem. I'm printing labels whose text is knocked-out
          >(reversed) and my results are far less than optimal because of the
          >requisite heavy ink coverage. I've inked the rollers twice. Did an
          >overprint. Added a lot of ink to the rollers. I'm stuck between lots
          >of transparency (extremely unacceptable) and muddled serifs. The label
          >size is approx. 3 by 4.5 inches.
          >
          >What are my options other than asking for a redesign and printing
          >offset? I'm printing with polymer plates on a Vandy 219 with a
          >non-adjustable bed. Help please!
          >
          >Thank you in advance, Roderick
          >
          >
          >
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        • Mark Wilden
          From: Printer ... That s interesting. As a relative newbie, I was thinking the opposite - turn the form so the long side is
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 13, 2004
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            From: "Printer" <dep.letterpress@...>

            > At risk of stating the obvious, orient the form so that the cylinder is
            > parallel to the shorter dimension of the solid area. The pressure is
            > distributed in a stripe across the form, so the press has more ooomph if
            > the stripe is going across the 3" rather than 4.5"

            That's interesting. As a relative newbie, I was thinking the opposite - turn
            the form so the long side is parallel to the cylinder, to use as much of the
            rollers as possible.
          • Kathleen Whalen
            ... Thats exactly what I have just discovered printing a decorated paper sheet on the SP15 for use as the paper side of a book cover. Turning the plate so its
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 14, 2004
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              > From: "Mark Wilden" <mark@...>
              > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 23:18:04 -0700
              > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] heavy ink coverage problem
              >
              >
              > That's interesting. As a relative newbie, I was thinking the opposite - turn
              > the form so the long side is parallel to the cylinder, to use as much of the
              > rollers as possible.
              >


              Thats exactly what I have just discovered printing a decorated paper sheet
              on the SP15 for use as the paper side of a book cover. Turning the plate so
              its long side is parallel to the cylinder, and turning the paper likewise
              (so the grain helps the paper to 'wrap' round the cylinder) has given a much
              better level of 'solid' to the image. Don't know which of the two variables
              is worth the most, but together it's fine.

              Still learning as I go.

              And Kathy has updated the website - no new pictures of the workshop yet,
              though there will be a section on the machinery here eventually - just a
              couple of new books and a poster with the UN Civil Aviation Phonetic
              Alphabet in wood type and linocuts.


              Graham Moss
              Incline Press
              36 Bow Street
              Oldham OL1 1SJ England
              (44) 0161 627 1966
              http://www.inclinepress.com
            • Harold Kyle
              ... I tried this once a while ago. My shop s climate at the time was very different than the climate of the offset shop I used. I couldn t hold register
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 14, 2004
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                On 6/14/04 1:52 AM, "Printer" <dep.letterpress@...> wrote:
                > I have heard stories of printers
                > who will print this kind of thing offset, then hit it blind on the
                > letterpress to create the impression that is desired.

                I tried this once a while ago. My shop's climate at the time was very
                different than the climate of the offset shop I used. I couldn't hold
                register because the sheet expanded about 3/32 of an inch on the 14 inch
                side (the sheet was short grain legal size) when I brought it to my shop.
                What a nightmare. If you can monitor your climate or if your register is
                unimportant this may work--otherwise you might be in for a similar surprise.

                Solids with small reverse text are difficult by letterpress. Can it ever
                look as even or as crisp as offset would? If I were in this situation I
                would try running only slightly heavy on ink and adding tack reducer, double
                rolling the ink before heavy impression--and maybe send the sheet twice
                through the press.

                Harold


                Boxcar Press
                Fine Printing / Digital Letterpress Supplies
                Delavan Center / 501 W. Fayette St. / Studio 222 / Syracuse, NY 13204
                315-473-0930 phone / 315-473-0967 fax / www.boxcarpress.com
              • John Sullivan
                D.A.R.E. for printers? D.A.R.E. is a program for teaching kids to say no to drugs. The program tries to help the person define who they are and then assert
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 15, 2004
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                  D.A.R.E. for printers? D.A.R.E. is a program for teaching kids to say
                  no to drugs. The program tries to help the person define who they are
                  and then assert that conviction. People (friends, customers etc.) bring
                  us their printing jobs, probably first because they like us and want to
                  work with us on a project (not because we are the best printer for the
                  job). This is where the D.A.R.E. program comes in, we must first define
                  what kind of printer we are based on our interests and the capabilites
                  of the equipment we choose to operate. From this vantage point we can
                  then view the offered work and choose to print if it fits or dare to
                  say no if the end product is not appropriate for our work flow. I think
                  of saying no to a job, as also saying yes to a future job, that will
                  surly come and I will have time to do because I am not bogged down
                  doing inappropriate work.

                  John Sullivan
                  Letterpress and Offset
                  Lograph@...
                  415-552-0817

                  On Monday, June 14, 2004, at 05:47 AM, Harold Kyle wrote:

                  > On 6/14/04 1:52 AM, "Printer" <dep.letterpress@...> wrote:
                  > > I have heard stories of printers
                  > > who will print this kind of thing offset, then hit it blind on the
                  > > letterpress to create the impression that is desired.
                  >
                  > I tried this once a while ago. My shop's climate at the time was very
                  > different than the climate of the offset shop I used. I couldn't hold
                  > register because the sheet expanded about 3/32 of an inch on the 14
                  > inch
                  > side (the sheet was short grain legal size) when I brought it to my
                  > shop.
                  > What a nightmare. If you can monitor your climate or if your register
                  > is
                  > unimportant this may work--otherwise you might be in for a similar
                  > surprise.
                  >
                  > Solids with small reverse text are difficult by letterpress. Can it
                  > ever
                  > look as even or as crisp as offset would? If I were in this situation I
                  > would try running only slightly heavy on ink and adding tack reducer,
                  > double
                  > rolling the ink before heavy impression--and maybe send the sheet twice
                  > through the press.
                  >
                  > Harold
                  >
                  >
                  > Boxcar Press
                  > Fine Printing / Digital Letterpress Supplies
                  > Delavan Center / 501 W. Fayette St. / Studio 222 / Syracuse, NY� 13204
                  > 315-473-0930 phone / 315-473-0967 fax / www.boxcarpress.com
                  >
                  >
                  <image.tiff>
                  >
                  >
                  <image.tiff>
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Gerald Lange
                  John The metaphor threw me at first but I guess I pretty much agree. I offer a certain kind of service. Period. I m not interested in printing or typographic
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 16, 2004
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                    John

                    The metaphor threw me at first but I guess I pretty much agree. I offer a certain kind of service. Period. I'm not interested in printing or typographic design or whatever just for the money. I guess that might be easier to say from the perspective of having done this for some time. But I'm not sure that should matter. Guess it depends. I sort of have the luxury of thinking, do I like this project? is it challenging? will I learn something here? Not that I don't need the rent money, just that I've gone without it being on time for so long that I realize that is not really the most important thing about all this. Not that I fully understand what is the most important thing about all this. Other folks have more defined rationale. I just like getting up in the morning and working at something I know how to do, can do it well, and kind of get a kick out of it all. And, of course, somehow, it pays the rent.

                    Gerald


                    > D.A.R.E. for printers? D.A.R.E. is a program for teaching kids to say
                    > no to drugs. The program tries to help the person define who they are
                    > and then assert that conviction. People (friends, customers etc.) bring
                    > us their printing jobs, probably first because they like us and want to
                    > work with us on a project (not because we are the best printer for the
                    > job). This is where the D.A.R.E. program comes in, we must first define
                    > what kind of printer we are based on our interests and the capabilites
                    > of the equipment we choose to operate. From this vantage point we can
                    > then view the offered work and choose to print if it fits or dare to
                    > say no if the end product is not appropriate for our work flow. I think
                    > of saying no to a job, as also saying yes to a future job, that will
                    > surly come and I will have time to do because I am not bogged down
                    > doing inappropriate work.
                    >
                    > John Sullivan
                    > Letterpress and Offset
                    > Lograph@m...
                    > 415-552-0817
                    >
                    > On Monday, June 14, 2004, at 05:47 AM, Harold Kyle wrote:
                    >
                    > > On 6/14/04 1:52 AM, "Printer" <dep.letterpress@e...> wrote:
                    > > > I have heard stories of printers
                    > > > who will print this kind of thing offset, then hit it blind on the
                    > > > letterpress to create the impression that is desired.
                    > >
                    > > I tried this once a while ago. My shop's climate at the time was very
                    > > different than the climate of the offset shop I used. I couldn't hold
                    > > register because the sheet expanded about 3/32 of an inch on the 14
                    > > inch
                    > > side (the sheet was short grain legal size) when I brought it to my
                    > > shop.
                    > > What a nightmare. If you can monitor your climate or if your register
                    > > is
                    > > unimportant this may work--otherwise you might be in for a similar
                    > > surprise.
                    > >
                    > > Solids with small reverse text are difficult by letterpress. Can it
                    > > ever
                    > > look as even or as crisp as offset would? If I were in this
                    situation I
                    > > would try running only slightly heavy on ink and adding tack reducer,
                    > > double
                    > > rolling the ink before heavy impression--and maybe send the sheet
                    twice
                    > > through the press.
                    > >
                    > > Harold
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Boxcar Press
                    > > Fine Printing / Digital Letterpress Supplies
                    > > Delavan Center / 501 W. Fayette St. / Studio 222 / Syracuse, NY 13204
                    > > 315-473-0930 phone / 315-473-0967 fax / www.boxcarpress.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > <image.tiff>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > <image.tiff>
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/
                    > >
                    > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    Service.
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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