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heavy ink coverage problem

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  • rxchow
    I have a vexing problem. I m printing labels whose text is knocked-out (reversed) and my results are far less than optimal because of the requisite heavy ink
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 11, 2004
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      I have a vexing problem. I'm printing labels whose text is knocked-out
      (reversed) and my results are far less than optimal because of the
      requisite heavy ink coverage. I've inked the rollers twice. Did an
      overprint. Added a lot of ink to the rollers. I'm stuck between lots
      of transparency (extremely unacceptable) and muddled serifs. The label
      size is approx. 3 by 4.5 inches.

      What are my options other than asking for a redesign and printing
      offset? I'm printing with polymer plates on a Vandy 219 with a
      non-adjustable bed. Help please!

      Thank you in advance, Roderick
    • typetom@aol.com
      Hi Roderick, You don t mention what kind of paper you are printing. Perhaps a different paper would work, but one likely solution is to dampen the paper.
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 11, 2004
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        Hi Roderick,
        You don't mention what kind of paper you are printing. Perhaps a different
        paper would work, but one likely solution is to dampen the paper. Slight
        moisture opens the fibers and lets the ink in -- takes about a third as much ink to
        print solid on dampened paper.

        Various methods can be used to dampen the sheets. I spray very lightly with
        water in a squeeze bottle and then wrap the sheets together in a plastic bag
        and leave over-night with a board on top. Too much weight can keep the moisture
        from equalizing, but a little weight helps keep it flat. Other methods involve
        using a damp sponge or even dipping the sheets; often only every other sheet
        or every 3 or 5 sheets may be enough, if it has enough time to equalize
        throughout. Too much water, beads still remaining on the surface, will interfere
        with inking, and might allow a tacky ink to pull the fibers apart as it is
        printed. Just soft and cool to the cheek is probably damp enough.

        You also have to keep the stack of paper from drying as you print. And two
        color registration may be impossible as the sheets swell and shrink with the
        amount of moisture.

        Then of course you have to leave time for the paper to dry, again under the
        weight of a board or two, sometimes several days, with repeated shuffling of
        the order of the sheets, since they will dry first from the edges. Rather
        involved process perhaps, taking some experience to get the right touch, but it may
        answer your dilemma.

        Otherwise, increased ink and increased pressure are the options. Some designs
        really call for offset or computer printing despite the high fashion mystique
        of letterpress. I had one designer give me a similar job with paper that had
        a watermark. Every fourth or fifth print said 100% COTTON RAG in the black
        ink. I had to get more paper and throw out half the run. The idea of the effect
        of different thicknesses in the paper just never occured to the designer
        accustomed to his laser printer.
        Best wishes!
        Tom

        Tom Parson
        Now It's Up To You Publications
        157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
        (303) 777-8951
        http://members.aol.com/typetom


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Gerald Lange
        Roderick Were your plates exposed lean (less exposure) for the solid or more of a medium exposure for the type? You might need to run lean to allow for a
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 12, 2004
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          Roderick

          Were your plates exposed "lean" (less exposure) for the solid or more
          of a "medium" exposure for the type? You might need to run lean to
          allow for a more open and inclined substructure relief. And perhaps a
          tad longer washout. This is somewhat the real problem with
          photopolymer, having to sacrifice surface qualities for subsurface
          qualities, or vica versa. Running lean would mean losing some of the
          quality of the letterform (thinness/sharpness) but it might allow you
          to work acceptably with the solid without filling in the knocked-out type.

          Gerald

          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "rxchow" <rxchow@y...> wrote:
          > I have a vexing problem. I'm printing labels whose text is knocked-out
          > (reversed) and my results are far less than optimal because of the
          > requisite heavy ink coverage. I've inked the rollers twice. Did an
          > overprint. Added a lot of ink to the rollers. I'm stuck between lots
          > of transparency (extremely unacceptable) and muddled serifs. The label
          > size is approx. 3 by 4.5 inches.
          >
          > What are my options other than asking for a redesign and printing
          > offset? I'm printing with polymer plates on a Vandy 219 with a
          > non-adjustable bed. Help please!
          >
          > Thank you in advance, Roderick
        • Printer
          At risk of stating the obvious, orient the form so that the cylinder is parallel to the shorter dimension of the solid area. The pressure is distributed in a
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 13, 2004
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            At risk of stating the obvious, orient the form so that the cylinder is
            parallel to the shorter dimension of the solid area. The pressure is
            distributed in a stripe across the form, so the press has more ooomph if
            the stripe is going across the 3" rather than 4.5". Perhaps this, in
            combination with double inking or a double hit will pull it off. I hope
            you're not doing these 2- or 3- or 4-up!

            Other suggestions posted sound good. I have heard stories of printers
            who will print this kind of thing offset, then hit it blind on the
            letterpress to create the impression that is desired.

            Joel Benson
            Dependable Letterpress
            San Francisco

            rxchow wrote:

            >I have a vexing problem. I'm printing labels whose text is knocked-out
            >(reversed) and my results are far less than optimal because of the
            >requisite heavy ink coverage. I've inked the rollers twice. Did an
            >overprint. Added a lot of ink to the rollers. I'm stuck between lots
            >of transparency (extremely unacceptable) and muddled serifs. The label
            >size is approx. 3 by 4.5 inches.
            >
            >What are my options other than asking for a redesign and printing
            >offset? I'm printing with polymer plates on a Vandy 219 with a
            >non-adjustable bed. Help please!
            >
            >Thank you in advance, Roderick
            >
            >
            >
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          • Mark Wilden
            From: Printer ... That s interesting. As a relative newbie, I was thinking the opposite - turn the form so the long side is
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 13, 2004
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              From: "Printer" <dep.letterpress@...>

              > At risk of stating the obvious, orient the form so that the cylinder is
              > parallel to the shorter dimension of the solid area. The pressure is
              > distributed in a stripe across the form, so the press has more ooomph if
              > the stripe is going across the 3" rather than 4.5"

              That's interesting. As a relative newbie, I was thinking the opposite - turn
              the form so the long side is parallel to the cylinder, to use as much of the
              rollers as possible.
            • Kathleen Whalen
              ... Thats exactly what I have just discovered printing a decorated paper sheet on the SP15 for use as the paper side of a book cover. Turning the plate so its
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 14, 2004
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                > From: "Mark Wilden" <mark@...>
                > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 23:18:04 -0700
                > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] heavy ink coverage problem
                >
                >
                > That's interesting. As a relative newbie, I was thinking the opposite - turn
                > the form so the long side is parallel to the cylinder, to use as much of the
                > rollers as possible.
                >


                Thats exactly what I have just discovered printing a decorated paper sheet
                on the SP15 for use as the paper side of a book cover. Turning the plate so
                its long side is parallel to the cylinder, and turning the paper likewise
                (so the grain helps the paper to 'wrap' round the cylinder) has given a much
                better level of 'solid' to the image. Don't know which of the two variables
                is worth the most, but together it's fine.

                Still learning as I go.

                And Kathy has updated the website - no new pictures of the workshop yet,
                though there will be a section on the machinery here eventually - just a
                couple of new books and a poster with the UN Civil Aviation Phonetic
                Alphabet in wood type and linocuts.


                Graham Moss
                Incline Press
                36 Bow Street
                Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                (44) 0161 627 1966
                http://www.inclinepress.com
              • Harold Kyle
                ... I tried this once a while ago. My shop s climate at the time was very different than the climate of the offset shop I used. I couldn t hold register
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 14, 2004
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                  On 6/14/04 1:52 AM, "Printer" <dep.letterpress@...> wrote:
                  > I have heard stories of printers
                  > who will print this kind of thing offset, then hit it blind on the
                  > letterpress to create the impression that is desired.

                  I tried this once a while ago. My shop's climate at the time was very
                  different than the climate of the offset shop I used. I couldn't hold
                  register because the sheet expanded about 3/32 of an inch on the 14 inch
                  side (the sheet was short grain legal size) when I brought it to my shop.
                  What a nightmare. If you can monitor your climate or if your register is
                  unimportant this may work--otherwise you might be in for a similar surprise.

                  Solids with small reverse text are difficult by letterpress. Can it ever
                  look as even or as crisp as offset would? If I were in this situation I
                  would try running only slightly heavy on ink and adding tack reducer, double
                  rolling the ink before heavy impression--and maybe send the sheet twice
                  through the press.

                  Harold


                  Boxcar Press
                  Fine Printing / Digital Letterpress Supplies
                  Delavan Center / 501 W. Fayette St. / Studio 222 / Syracuse, NY 13204
                  315-473-0930 phone / 315-473-0967 fax / www.boxcarpress.com
                • John Sullivan
                  D.A.R.E. for printers? D.A.R.E. is a program for teaching kids to say no to drugs. The program tries to help the person define who they are and then assert
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 15, 2004
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                    D.A.R.E. for printers? D.A.R.E. is a program for teaching kids to say
                    no to drugs. The program tries to help the person define who they are
                    and then assert that conviction. People (friends, customers etc.) bring
                    us their printing jobs, probably first because they like us and want to
                    work with us on a project (not because we are the best printer for the
                    job). This is where the D.A.R.E. program comes in, we must first define
                    what kind of printer we are based on our interests and the capabilites
                    of the equipment we choose to operate. From this vantage point we can
                    then view the offered work and choose to print if it fits or dare to
                    say no if the end product is not appropriate for our work flow. I think
                    of saying no to a job, as also saying yes to a future job, that will
                    surly come and I will have time to do because I am not bogged down
                    doing inappropriate work.

                    John Sullivan
                    Letterpress and Offset
                    Lograph@...
                    415-552-0817

                    On Monday, June 14, 2004, at 05:47 AM, Harold Kyle wrote:

                    > On 6/14/04 1:52 AM, "Printer" <dep.letterpress@...> wrote:
                    > > I have heard stories of printers
                    > > who will print this kind of thing offset, then hit it blind on the
                    > > letterpress to create the impression that is desired.
                    >
                    > I tried this once a while ago. My shop's climate at the time was very
                    > different than the climate of the offset shop I used. I couldn't hold
                    > register because the sheet expanded about 3/32 of an inch on the 14
                    > inch
                    > side (the sheet was short grain legal size) when I brought it to my
                    > shop.
                    > What a nightmare. If you can monitor your climate or if your register
                    > is
                    > unimportant this may work--otherwise you might be in for a similar
                    > surprise.
                    >
                    > Solids with small reverse text are difficult by letterpress. Can it
                    > ever
                    > look as even or as crisp as offset would? If I were in this situation I
                    > would try running only slightly heavy on ink and adding tack reducer,
                    > double
                    > rolling the ink before heavy impression--and maybe send the sheet twice
                    > through the press.
                    >
                    > Harold
                    >
                    >
                    > Boxcar Press
                    > Fine Printing / Digital Letterpress Supplies
                    > Delavan Center / 501 W. Fayette St. / Studio 222 / Syracuse, NY� 13204
                    > 315-473-0930 phone / 315-473-0967 fax / www.boxcarpress.com
                    >
                    >
                    <image.tiff>
                    >
                    >
                    <image.tiff>
                    >
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                    >
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Gerald Lange
                    John The metaphor threw me at first but I guess I pretty much agree. I offer a certain kind of service. Period. I m not interested in printing or typographic
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jun 16, 2004
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                      John

                      The metaphor threw me at first but I guess I pretty much agree. I offer a certain kind of service. Period. I'm not interested in printing or typographic design or whatever just for the money. I guess that might be easier to say from the perspective of having done this for some time. But I'm not sure that should matter. Guess it depends. I sort of have the luxury of thinking, do I like this project? is it challenging? will I learn something here? Not that I don't need the rent money, just that I've gone without it being on time for so long that I realize that is not really the most important thing about all this. Not that I fully understand what is the most important thing about all this. Other folks have more defined rationale. I just like getting up in the morning and working at something I know how to do, can do it well, and kind of get a kick out of it all. And, of course, somehow, it pays the rent.

                      Gerald


                      > D.A.R.E. for printers? D.A.R.E. is a program for teaching kids to say
                      > no to drugs. The program tries to help the person define who they are
                      > and then assert that conviction. People (friends, customers etc.) bring
                      > us their printing jobs, probably first because they like us and want to
                      > work with us on a project (not because we are the best printer for the
                      > job). This is where the D.A.R.E. program comes in, we must first define
                      > what kind of printer we are based on our interests and the capabilites
                      > of the equipment we choose to operate. From this vantage point we can
                      > then view the offered work and choose to print if it fits or dare to
                      > say no if the end product is not appropriate for our work flow. I think
                      > of saying no to a job, as also saying yes to a future job, that will
                      > surly come and I will have time to do because I am not bogged down
                      > doing inappropriate work.
                      >
                      > John Sullivan
                      > Letterpress and Offset
                      > Lograph@m...
                      > 415-552-0817
                      >
                      > On Monday, June 14, 2004, at 05:47 AM, Harold Kyle wrote:
                      >
                      > > On 6/14/04 1:52 AM, "Printer" <dep.letterpress@e...> wrote:
                      > > > I have heard stories of printers
                      > > > who will print this kind of thing offset, then hit it blind on the
                      > > > letterpress to create the impression that is desired.
                      > >
                      > > I tried this once a while ago. My shop's climate at the time was very
                      > > different than the climate of the offset shop I used. I couldn't hold
                      > > register because the sheet expanded about 3/32 of an inch on the 14
                      > > inch
                      > > side (the sheet was short grain legal size) when I brought it to my
                      > > shop.
                      > > What a nightmare. If you can monitor your climate or if your register
                      > > is
                      > > unimportant this may work--otherwise you might be in for a similar
                      > > surprise.
                      > >
                      > > Solids with small reverse text are difficult by letterpress. Can it
                      > > ever
                      > > look as even or as crisp as offset would? If I were in this
                      situation I
                      > > would try running only slightly heavy on ink and adding tack reducer,
                      > > double
                      > > rolling the ink before heavy impression--and maybe send the sheet
                      twice
                      > > through the press.
                      > >
                      > > Harold
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Boxcar Press
                      > > Fine Printing / Digital Letterpress Supplies
                      > > Delavan Center / 501 W. Fayette St. / Studio 222 / Syracuse, NY 13204
                      > > 315-473-0930 phone / 315-473-0967 fax / www.boxcarpress.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > <image.tiff>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > <image.tiff>
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/
                      > >
                      > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      Service.
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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