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  • Michael Barnes
    Traps in offset printing are frequently .25 point (quarter point). Unless black is overprinting, a colour trapping under black can be considerably more (half a
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 27, 2004
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      Traps in offset printing are frequently .25 point (quarter point).
      Unless black is overprinting, a colour trapping under black can be
      considerably more (half a point) since it won't show much. Nowadays we
      trap even less -- around .125 pt -- because we are imaging to direct to
      plate, which has improved registration.

      Of course I don't know if numbers that work in offset also work for
      letterpress. But a 2 pt trap is certainly big. Many rules and text
      characters are themselves thinner, or not much broader than this, and
      if the trap is coming in from all directions, such a large number will
      effectively result in an overprint.

      Michael Barnes
    • Roderick
      Michael (et al): I m printing black and burgandy for one set and black and goldenrod for another set. If I place black down first, then burgandy (goldenrod)
      Message 2 of 6 , May 1, 2004
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        Michael (et al):

        I'm printing black and burgandy for one set and black
        and goldenrod for another set. If I place black down
        first, then burgandy (goldenrod) will trapping at 1/2
        (assuming I'm registered) show all that much. Should
        the client decide how much trapping I need? I'm
        assuming not because I'm printing and not him, I need
        to decide is how much overhang is acceptable to me. Am
        I correct?

        I've printed a few two color jobs with colors in no
        particular order and never specified trapping because
        I just registered. Should I be putting down the
        lighter color first then black or vice-versa?

        Many thanks, Roderick


        --- Michael Barnes <mjbarnes@...> wrote:
        > Traps in offset printing are frequently .25 point
        > (quarter point).
        > Unless black is overprinting, a colour trapping
        > under black can be
        > considerably more (half a point) since it won't show
        > much. Nowadays we
        > trap even less -- around .125 pt -- because we are
        > imaging to direct to
        > plate, which has improved registration.
        >
        > Of course I don't know if numbers that work in
        > offset also work for
        > letterpress. But a 2 pt trap is certainly big. Many
        > rules and text
        > characters are themselves thinner, or not much
        > broader than this, and
        > if the trap is coming in from all directions, such a
        > large number will
        > effectively result in an overprint.
        >
        > Michael Barnes
        >
        >





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      • Gary Mordhorst
        Print your color (burgundy or goldenrod) first and print black on top of the color. Keep your trap at 1/2 point, or overprint, based upon the nature of the
        Message 3 of 6 , May 1, 2004
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          Print your color (burgundy or goldenrod) first and print black on top of the
          color. Keep your trap at 1/2 point, or overprint, based upon the nature of
          the image.

          Black ink has enough density to overprint most colors. The big exception to
          this is in the case of metallic inks, which have metal shavings in the ink,
          making them more opaque than black.

          Gary Mordhorst
          AccuColor Plus, Inc.
          www.accucolor.com





          on 5/1/04 11:33 AM, Roderick at rxchow@... wrote:

          Michael (et al):

          I'm printing black and burgandy for one set and black
          and goldenrod for another set. If I place black down
          first, then burgandy (goldenrod) will trapping at 1/2
          (assuming I'm registered) show all that much. Should
          the client decide how much trapping I need? I'm
          assuming not because I'm printing and not him, I need
          to decide is how much overhang is acceptable to me. Am
          I correct?

          I've printed a few two color jobs with colors in no
          particular order and never specified trapping because
          I just registered. Should I be putting down the
          lighter color first then black or vice-versa?

          Many thanks, Roderick


          --- Michael Barnes <mjbarnes@...> wrote:
          > Traps in offset printing are frequently .25 point
          > (quarter point).
          > Unless black is overprinting, a colour trapping
          > under black can be
          > considerably more (half a point) since it won't show
          > much. Nowadays we
          > trap even less -- around .125 pt -- because we are
          > imaging to direct to
          > plate, which has improved registration.
          >
          > Of course I don't know if numbers that work in
          > offset also work for
          > letterpress. But a 2 pt trap is certainly big. Many
          > rules and text
          > characters are themselves thinner, or not much
          > broader than this, and
          > if the trap is coming in from all directions, such a
          > large number will
          > effectively result in an overprint.
          >
          > Michael Barnes
          >
          >





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        • Roderick
          Thank you everyone for sharing your wisdom. Best, Roderick ... http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=129fbo998/M=295196.4901138.6050264.3001176/D=groups ...
          Message 4 of 6 , May 1, 2004
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            Thank you everyone for sharing your wisdom.

            Best, Roderick




            --- Gary Mordhorst <gary@...> wrote:
            > Print your color (burgundy or goldenrod) first and
            > print black on top of the
            > color. Keep your trap at 1/2 point, or overprint,
            > based upon the nature of
            > the image.
            >
            > Black ink has enough density to overprint most
            > colors. The big exception to
            > this is in the case of metallic inks, which have
            > metal shavings in the ink,
            > making them more opaque than black.
            >
            > Gary Mordhorst
            > AccuColor Plus, Inc.
            > www.accucolor.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > on 5/1/04 11:33 AM, Roderick at rxchow@...
            > wrote:
            >
            > Michael (et al):
            >
            > I'm printing black and burgandy for one set and
            > black
            > and goldenrod for another set. If I place black down
            > first, then burgandy (goldenrod) will trapping at
            > 1/2
            > (assuming I'm registered) show all that much. Should
            > the client decide how much trapping I need? I'm
            > assuming not because I'm printing and not him, I
            > need
            > to decide is how much overhang is acceptable to me.
            > Am
            > I correct?
            >
            > I've printed a few two color jobs with colors in no
            > particular order and never specified trapping
            > because
            > I just registered. Should I be putting down the
            > lighter color first then black or vice-versa?
            >
            > Many thanks, Roderick
            >
            >
            > --- Michael Barnes <mjbarnes@...> wrote:
            > > Traps in offset printing are frequently .25 point
            > > (quarter point).
            > > Unless black is overprinting, a colour trapping
            > > under black can be
            > > considerably more (half a point) since it won't
            > show
            > > much. Nowadays we
            > > trap even less -- around .125 pt -- because we are
            > > imaging to direct to
            > > plate, which has improved registration.
            > >
            > > Of course I don't know if numbers that work in
            > > offset also work for
            > > letterpress. But a 2 pt trap is certainly big.
            > Many
            > > rules and text
            > > characters are themselves thinner, or not much
            > > broader than this, and
            > > if the trap is coming in from all directions, such
            > a
            > > large number will
            > > effectively result in an overprint.
            > >
            > > Michael Barnes
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • Michael Barnes
            Dear Roderick, I see that other better printers have answered the question of which ink to print first. I would only add that you should not ask your client
            Message 5 of 6 , May 1, 2004
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              Dear Roderick,

              I see that other better printers have answered the question of which
              ink to print first. I would only add that you should not ask your
              client about nor mention trap in any way to him. It is a technical
              subject that will only cause him worry. We have all looked at printed
              material all our lives without noticing trap (or kerns for that matter)
              unless these subjects were brought to our attention.

              Michael Barnes

              On May 1, 2004, at 9:33 AM, Roderick wrote:

              > Michael (et al):
              >
              > I'm printing black and burgandy for one set and black
              > and goldenrod for another set. If I place black down
              > first, then burgandy (goldenrod) will trapping at 1/2
              > (assuming I'm registered) show all that much. Should
              > the client decide how much trapping I need? I'm
              > assuming not because I'm printing and not him, I need
              > to decide is how much overhang is acceptable to me. Am
              > I correct?
              >
              > I've printed a few two color jobs with colors in no
              > particular order and never specified trapping because
              > I just registered. Should I be putting down the
              > lighter color first then black or vice-versa?
              >
              > Many thanks, Roderick
              >
              >
              > --- Michael Barnes <mjbarnes@...> wrote:
              >> Traps in offset printing are frequently .25 point
              >> (quarter point).
              >> Unless black is overprinting, a colour trapping
              >> under black can be
              >> considerably more (half a point) since it won't show
              >> much. Nowadays we
              >> trap even less -- around .125 pt -- because we are
              >> imaging to direct to
              >> plate, which has improved registration.
              >>
              >> Of course I don't know if numbers that work in
              >> offset also work for
              >> letterpress. But a 2 pt trap is certainly big. Many
              >> rules and text
              >> characters are themselves thinner, or not much
              >> broader than this, and
              >> if the trap is coming in from all directions, such a
              >> large number will
              >> effectively result in an overprint.
              >>
              >> Michael Barnes
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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            • Gerald Lange
              Roderick One other consideration, in the sequencing of the way you lay down colors (an after thought), is the tack of the ink. The first color down should have
              Message 6 of 6 , May 1, 2004
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                Roderick

                One other consideration, in the sequencing of the way you lay down
                colors (an after thought), is the tack of the ink. The first color
                down should have more tack than the next. Difficult in that the
                lighter colors, which need to be laid down first are generally those
                with the less tack. It's not all that hard to alter viscosity but a
                slight problem since the black is the last to be printed and is
                usually a stiffer ink...

                Gerald


                Roderick <rxchow@y...> wrote:
                > Thank you everyone for sharing your wisdom.
                >
                > Best, Roderick
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- Gary Mordhorst <gary@a...> wrote:
                > > Print your color (burgundy or goldenrod) first and
                > > print black on top of the
                > > color. Keep your trap at 1/2 point, or overprint,
                > > based upon the nature of
                > > the image.
                > >
                > > Black ink has enough density to overprint most
                > > colors. The big exception to
                > > this is in the case of metallic inks, which have
                > > metal shavings in the ink,
                > > making them more opaque than black.
                > >
                > > Gary Mordhorst
                > > AccuColor Plus, Inc.
                > > www.accucolor.com
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