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RE: [PPLetterpress] Miehle Question & More

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  • Chris Papasadero
    [WARNING: NEWBIE ALERT] On this same vein - how does one go about setting up a vandy 219 to die cut? -Chris Papasadero Portland, OR ================
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 15, 2004
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      [WARNING: NEWBIE ALERT]

      On this same vein - how does one go about setting up a vandy 219 to die cut?

      -Chris Papasadero
      Portland, OR

      ================
      http://fwis.com
      ================

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Michael Parker [mailto:mdpphoto@...]
      Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 11:29 AM
      To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [PPLetterpress] Miehle Question


      Hello Pressmen,

      I work at a newfangled print shop with a HP indigo press. Indigo "inks"
      adhere poorly to even its special substrates. We are thinking of getting
      another press for varnishing to add durability.
      A Miehle vertical would be useful to us for die-cutting our small press
      sheets, but would it also be useful in varnishing our work? How hard is it
      to change the machine from printing to die-cutting?

      Michael Parker
      Atlanta, GA




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    • Gerald Lange
      Chris I ve never seen a steel die cutting plate made for a Vandercook, nor ever seen anything like that listed in the Vandercook literature. I m sure only
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 16, 2004
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        Chris

        I've never seen a steel die cutting plate made for a Vandercook, nor
        ever seen anything like that listed in the Vandercook literature. I'm
        sure only Fritz could provide us with the definitive answer to that.
        Vandercooks were, for the most part, designed as proofing presses.
        They are very, very good at that. They are not very good printing
        (editioning) presses though. You have to work quite hard to get the
        kind of quality that might come more "naturally" from a "real" press
        such as a Heidelberg cylinder. I suspect that using your press for die
        cutting would put a great deal of mechanical stress on it in the long
        run. I think you might be asking for too much from your poor old 219.

        But, having said that, yes, you can do the occasional die cut on a
        Vandercook. The main concern would be to protect the cylinder's
        surface from damage. Whenever I've needed to die cut on a Vandercook
        I've used a offset metal plate discard cut to the shape of the top
        blanket (drawsheet) and fashioned this to the cylinder with a bit of
        substantial undersheeting. Always worked well but I have never had
        much call to do much die cutting.

        It might be best to find a press better suited for this kind of work,
        or to just farm out the occasional die cut. There are certainly enough
        commercial letterpress printers still around who offer this service.

        Gerald

        >
        > On this same vein - how does one go about setting up a vandy 219 to
        die cut?
        >
        > -Chris Papasadero
        > Portland, OR
      • Fritz Klinke
        There is some die cutting done on Vandercooks, and we do furnish stainless steel die jackets. We have a few commercial accounts that die cut short runs of
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 16, 2004
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          There is some die cutting done on Vandercooks, and we do furnish stainless steel
          die jackets. We have a few commercial accounts that die cut short runs of
          gaskets, faces for dials, etc., so it is done. The key thing is not to push the
          press to its impression limits or to the maximum size--they are not made for
          extreme service, as Gerald indicates, and that work is better suited for presses
          designed to handle that kind of work. The Vandercook would use a standard steel
          die, like those used for platens or cylinder presses, .918 high.

          Fritz

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
          To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 11:56 PM
          Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Miehle Question & More


          Chris

          I've never seen a steel die cutting plate made for a Vandercook, nor
          ever seen anything like that listed in the Vandercook literature. I'm
          sure only Fritz could provide us with the definitive answer to that.
          Vandercooks were, for the most part, designed as proofing presses.
          They are very, very good at that. They are not very good printing
          (editioning) presses though. You have to work quite hard to get the
          kind of quality that might come more "naturally" from a "real" press
          such as a Heidelberg cylinder. I suspect that using your press for die
          cutting would put a great deal of mechanical stress on it in the long
          run. I think you might be asking for too much from your poor old 219.

          But, having said that, yes, you can do the occasional die cut on a
          Vandercook. The main concern would be to protect the cylinder's
          surface from damage. Whenever I've needed to die cut on a Vandercook
          I've used a offset metal plate discard cut to the shape of the top
          blanket (drawsheet) and fashioned this to the cylinder with a bit of
          substantial undersheeting. Always worked well but I have never had
          much call to do much die cutting.

          It might be best to find a press better suited for this kind of work,
          or to just farm out the occasional die cut. There are certainly enough
          commercial letterpress printers still around who offer this service.

          Gerald

          >
          > On this same vein - how does one go about setting up a vandy 219 to
          die cut?
          >
          > -Chris Papasadero
          > Portland, OR






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        • Mark Wilden
          From: Fritz Klinke ... Based on John Cornelisse s suggestion, I did some scoring on a Vandercook. The only problem was not being able
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 17, 2004
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            From: "Fritz Klinke" <nagraph@...>

            >There is some die cutting done on Vandercooks

            Based on John Cornelisse's suggestion, I did some scoring on a Vandercook.
            The only problem was not being able to go all the way to the edge of the
            sheet.

            Not the same as die-cutting, and I'm just an amateur amateur, but Fritz
            wanted traffic, so ...
          • Fritz Klinke
            If you are scoring or perfing to the grippers, you re right. But you ll find most commercial jobs are laid out for the sheet to have a final trim after these
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 17, 2004
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              If you are scoring or perfing to the grippers, you're right. But you'll find
              most commercial jobs are laid out for the sheet to have a final trim after these
              operations are done, or the score/perf is run parallel to the cylinder so the
              grippers are not a problem and the score/perf can run off the sheet on both
              sides. A paper cutter becomes a critical need in a shop in order to gain the
              freedom of not being a slave to the sheet size being printed.

              Fritz

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Mark Wilden" <mark@...>
              To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 1:48 AM
              Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Miehle Question & More


              From: "Fritz Klinke" <nagraph@...>

              >There is some die cutting done on Vandercooks

              Based on John Cornelisse's suggestion, I did some scoring on a Vandercook.
              The only problem was not being able to go all the way to the edge of the
              sheet.

              Not the same as die-cutting, and I'm just an amateur amateur, but Fritz
              wanted traffic, so ...




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              PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
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            • Regis Graden
              Fritz is absolutely correct, printing always should be thoroughly planned and always run on oversized stock and final trimmed. It is how it s done. Regis
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 17, 2004
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                Fritz is absolutely correct, printing always should be thoroughly planned
                and always run on oversized stock and final trimmed. It is how it's done.

                Regis Graden

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Fritz Klinke" <nagraph@...>
                To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 8:15 AM
                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Miehle Question & More


                If you are scoring or perfing to the grippers, you're right. But you'll find
                most commercial jobs are laid out for the sheet to have a final trim after
                these
                operations are done, or the score/perf is run parallel to the cylinder so
                the
                grippers are not a problem and the score/perf can run off the sheet on both
                sides. A paper cutter becomes a critical need in a shop in order to gain the
                freedom of not being a slave to the sheet size being printed.

                Fritz

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Mark Wilden" <mark@...>
                To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 1:48 AM
                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Miehle Question & More


                From: "Fritz Klinke" <nagraph@...>

                >There is some die cutting done on Vandercooks

                Based on John Cornelisse's suggestion, I did some scoring on a Vandercook.
                The only problem was not being able to go all the way to the edge of the
                sheet.

                Not the same as die-cutting, and I'm just an amateur amateur, but Fritz
                wanted traffic, so ...




                . To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                . Encountering problems? contact:
                PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                . To unsubscribe:
                PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                Yahoo! Groups Links









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              • AccuColor_Chicago
                Hi Michael, I have worked on a Indigo for five years, ink adhesion is one of the biggest issues to overcome. Here are smome guidelines that have helped me
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 24, 2004
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                  Hi Michael,

                  I have worked on a Indigo for five years, ink adhesion is one of
                  the biggest issues to overcome. Here are smome guidelines
                  that have helped me over time.

                  Only use acid free papers or treated papers.

                  Keep your ink conductivity between 85 and 105.

                  Indigo ink seems to transfer more fully from the blanket to the
                  paper in a room temperature of lower than 75 degrees.

                  Let your work "set up" for an hour before backing up or trimming.
                  Longer if the coverage is heavy. Work that scratches
                  immediately after printing usually cools off and becomes solid a
                  few hours later.

                  Regarding the Vertical, I have two of those also. Great presses
                  for die cutting or general printing. You will not be able to coat or
                  varnish on it. Look for a cheap offset "duplicator" style offset
                  press that will print the 12" X 18" sheet and run a varnish or
                  aqueous coating on it.


                  Best regards.

                  Gary Mordhorst
                  AccuColor Plus, Inc.
                  Chicago
                  www.accucolor.com




                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Michael Parker
                  <mdpphoto@y...> wrote:
                  > Hello Pressmen,
                  >
                  > I work at a newfangled print shop with a HP indigo press.
                  Indigo "inks"
                  > adhere poorly to even its special substrates. We are thinking of
                  getting
                  > another press for varnishing to add durability.
                  > A Miehle vertical would be useful to us for die-cutting our
                  small press
                  > sheets, but would it also be useful in varnishing our work?
                  How hard is it
                  > to change the machine from printing to die-cutting?
                  >
                  > Michael Parker
                  > Atlanta, GA
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