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Typefaces for Letterpress

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  • James Dissette
    In addition to Gerald s clear response on this subject, I d like to add something I thought to be true, but perhaps is doubtful. It was my understanding that
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 22, 2004
      In addition to Gerald's clear response on this subject, I'd like to add
      something I thought to be true, but perhaps is doubtful. It was my
      understanding that the "design" or cut of the matrice for one type size,
      say 12pt. might be a bit different for the same letter, say at 24pt
      because the "designer" felt that at a different size aesthetic changes
      were required to best display that type. With digital, isn't there just
      a replication of a master design, a sameness for 12pt and 24pt? So then,
      with digital, we're losing some of the nuances of cast type?

      James Dissette
      songs Before Zero Press
    • Peter Fraterdeus
      ... The concept of optical-axis in multiple master fonts, or OpenType provides a solution to this problem which never existed prior to the digital description
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 22, 2004
        At 3:01 PM -0500 2004-03-22, James Dissette wrote:
        >In addition to Gerald's clear response on this subject, I'd like to add
        >something I thought to be true, but perhaps is doubtful. It was my
        >understanding that the "design" or cut of the matrice for one type size,
        >say 12pt. might be a bit different for the same letter, say at 24pt
        >because the "designer" felt that at a different size aesthetic changes
        >were required to best display that type. With digital, isn't there just
        >a replication of a master design, a sameness for 12pt and 24pt? So then,
        >with digital, we're losing some of the nuances of cast type?
        >
        >James Dissette
        >songs Before Zero Press


        The concept of optical-axis in multiple master fonts, or OpenType provides a solution to this problem which never existed prior to the digital description of glyph forms.

        Unfortunately, the additional effort required to produce a decent multi-axis family (Adobe's multiple master technology no longer being supported) makes it prohibitive to do so.

        However, if you look at the best of the recent releases from the Linotype and Adobe libraries, you'll find optical variation is available. In the least, the distinction between 'display' and 'text' will be found in numerous examples.

        Ciao!
        peter
        www.alphabets.com


        --
        AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@

        Peter Fraterdeus http://www.fraterdeus.com

        http://www.semiotx.com Web Strategy Consulting
        "Words that work."(tm) Communication Design and Typography
      • Gerald Lange
        Peter There was some heated discussion on the OpenType list, maybe about half a year ago, regarding multiple axis fonts. Essentially, that the format would not
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 22, 2004
          Peter

          There was some heated discussion on the OpenType list, maybe about
          half a year ago, regarding multiple axis fonts. Essentially, that the
          format would not support these, at least certainly not in the
          interpolated configuration of the old multiple master fonts.
          Extrapolation (from an ur-character set) was discussed but this hardly
          seemed in the cards as well. Has this changed?

          The multiple masters, while quite heralded in retrospect, never really
          did catch on with the digital type buyer, but they were, depending
          upon the axis offered, quite great for letterpress configuration.
          Adobe even used this in their promotional efforts. I think I have
          every one that was ever made, including one by you!!!

          More and more OpenType fonts are offered as optimized variations as
          you say, but with at most three weights. Useful for digital work but
          letterpress often requires more than three and certainly the spread
          that has been offered is far too wide for useful size optimization.

          Do you know of any recent developments? I haven't been paying much
          attention to this as of late.

          Gerald


          > The concept of optical-axis in multiple master fonts, or OpenType
          provides a solution to this problem which never existed prior to the
          digital description of glyph forms.
          >
          > Unfortunately, the additional effort required to produce a decent
          multi-axis family (Adobe's multiple master technology no longer being
          supported) makes it prohibitive to do so.
          >
          > However, if you look at the best of the recent releases from the
          Linotype and Adobe libraries, you'll find optical variation is
          available. In the least, the distinction between 'display' and 'text'
          will be found in numerous examples.
          >
          > Ciao!
          > peter
          > www.alphabets.com
        • Peter Fraterdeus
          ... No, and I suppose it s unlikely. What I was getting at was the fact that OpenType does offer the capability to incorporate glyph sets representing multiple
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 22, 2004
            At 2:16 AM +0000 2004-03-23, Gerald Lange wrote:
            >Peter
            >
            >There was some heated discussion on the OpenType list, maybe about
            >half a year ago, regarding multiple axis fonts. Essentially, that the
            >format would not support these, at least certainly not in the
            >interpolated configuration of the old multiple master fonts.
            >Extrapolation (from an ur-character set) was discussed but this hardly
            >seemed in the cards as well. Has this changed?

            No, and I suppose it's unlikely.
            What I was getting at was the fact that OpenType does offer the capability to incorporate glyph sets representing multiple 'axes' into the font data. However, Apple's AAT (Apple Advanced Typography or GX in 'Classic Mac') and ATSUI (Apple Type Services for Unicode Imaging, in OS X) does have the capabilities to handle vector interpolation, if I'm not mistaken. There are any number of folks over on the ATypI list who would have the definitive answers, but I'm not one of them!

            >The multiple masters, while quite heralded in retrospect, never really
            >did catch on with the digital type buyer, but they were, depending
            >upon the axis offered, quite great for letterpress configuration.
            >Adobe even used this in their promotional efforts. I think I have
            >every one that was ever made, including one by you!!!

            Indeed! I've also designed my last couple of designs (Quanta and Marlowe) so that they could be used as MM fonts. However, the technology never matured in its implementation, so we're now left with creating instances using FontLab (which, in fact, is not a bad situation, really).

            Quanta has a weight and width axis, and Marlowe has an optical axis.
            The sad thing about all this, is, as you say, the type buyers for the most part couldn't have cared less.

            Apple's QuickDrawGX tech, from the early 90s, dealt with all of the finest points of multi-lingual typographic layout and arrangement, including the glyph interpolation, but thanks to the 'market' (that is, Windows) they were unable to get their approach into the mainstream.

            Therefore, I think the status quo is that we're pretty much stuck using some of your tips for optimising existing fonts in FontLab/Fog.

            I hope I'm being half-way coherent.
            Been a long weekend...

            Ciao
            P.

            >More and more OpenType fonts are offered as optimized variations as
            >you say, but with at most three weights. Useful for digital work but
            >letterpress often requires more than three and certainly the spread
            >that has been offered is far too wide for useful size optimization.
            >
            >Do you know of any recent developments? I haven't been paying much
            >attention to this as of late.
            >
            >Gerald...


            --
            AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@

            Peter Fraterdeus http://www.fraterdeus.com

            http://www.semiotx.com Web Strategy Consulting
            "Words that work."(tm) Communication Design and Typography
          • Gerald Lange
            Peter Yeah, I was one of the advocates of GX and I was quite disappointed it never got supported. Ten years later it could still run circles around what we
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 23, 2004
              Peter

              Yeah, I was one of the advocates of GX and I was quite disappointed it
              never got supported. Ten years later it could still run circles around
              what we have today. Apple sent me the golden beta CD way back when and I
              occasionally pop it in just to be reminded of what could/should have been.

              For all the promise of OT, it has been quite a disappointment. "Meet the new king, same as the old king."

              Gerald



              Peter Fraterdeus wrote:

              >At 2:16 AM +0000 2004-03-23, Gerald Lange wrote:
              >
              >
              >>Peter
              >>
              >>There was some heated discussion on the OpenType list, maybe about
              >>half a year ago, regarding multiple axis fonts. Essentially, that the
              >>format would not support these, at least certainly not in the
              >>interpolated configuration of the old multiple master fonts.
              >>Extrapolation (from an ur-character set) was discussed but this hardly
              >>seemed in the cards as well. Has this changed?
              >>
              >>
              >
              >No, and I suppose it's unlikely.
              >What I was getting at was the fact that OpenType does offer the capability to incorporate glyph sets representing multiple 'axes' into the font data. However, Apple's AAT (Apple Advanced Typography or GX in 'Classic Mac') and ATSUI (Apple Type Services for Unicode Imaging, in OS X) does have the capabilities to handle vector interpolation, if I'm not mistaken. There are any number of folks over on the ATypI list who would have the definitive answers, but I'm not one of them!
              >
              >
              >
              >>The multiple masters, while quite heralded in retrospect, never really
              >>did catch on with the digital type buyer, but they were, depending
              >>upon the axis offered, quite great for letterpress configuration.
              >>Adobe even used this in their promotional efforts. I think I have
              >>every one that was ever made, including one by you!!!
              >>
              >>
              >
              >Indeed! I've also designed my last couple of designs (Quanta and Marlowe) so that they could be used as MM fonts. However, the technology never matured in its implementation, so we're now left with creating instances using FontLab (which, in fact, is not a bad situation, really).
              >
              >Quanta has a weight and width axis, and Marlowe has an optical axis.
              >The sad thing about all this, is, as you say, the type buyers for the most part couldn't have cared less.
              >
              >Apple's QuickDrawGX tech, from the early 90s, dealt with all of the finest points of multi-lingual typographic layout and arrangement, including the glyph interpolation, but thanks to the 'market' (that is, Windows) they were unable to get their approach into the mainstream.
              >
              >Therefore, I think the status quo is that we're pretty much stuck using some of your tips for optimising existing fonts in FontLab/Fog.
              >
              >I hope I'm being half-way coherent.
              >Been a long weekend...
              >
              >Ciao
              >P.
              >
              >
              >
              >>More and more OpenType fonts are offered as optimized variations as
              >>you say, but with at most three weights. Useful for digital work but
              >>letterpress often requires more than three and certainly the spread
              >>that has been offered is far too wide for useful size optimization.
              >>
              >>Do you know of any recent developments? I haven't been paying much
              >>attention to this as of late.
              >>
              >>Gerald...
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Ken Botnick
              Does anyone know the type high measure of Italian types? Ken Botnick
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 1 7:27 AM
                Does anyone know the type high measure of Italian types?
                Ken Botnick
              • mike.jacobs
                Italy, France, Denmark and Spain among others ise the Didot standard type high of 0.928 inches. Mike England ... From: Ken Botnick
                Message 7 of 7 , Apr 1 8:04 AM
                  Italy, France, Denmark and Spain among others ise the Didot standard type
                  high of 0.928 inches.
                  Mike
                  England
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Ken Botnick" <kbotnick@...>
                  To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 4:27 PM
                  Subject: [PPLetterpress] Italian type high


                  Does anyone know the type high measure of Italian types?
                  Ken Botnick



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