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minimizing ink slur

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  • Thomas Hollifield
    Hello All, I was hoping that someone might have some tips on minimizing ink slur on a Vandercook. I am using polymer plates on a Bunting base printing onto
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 25, 2004
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      Hello All,

      I was hoping that someone might have some tips on minimizing ink slur
      on a Vandercook. I am using polymer plates on a Bunting base printing
      onto Somerset Velvet paper. When I encountered this, the ink slur only
      occurred in an isolated spot on the plate. If I rotated or moved the
      plate on the base, the ink slur would not occur in the exact same spot
      but instead relocate to a different area. The problem was reduced by
      holding the paper tight against the tympan until the last moment,
      however, this did not eliminate the slur entirely. Plates smaller than
      3 by 3 inches did not slur during the same ink run - only the larger
      plates seemed to produce this problem.

      Here are my initial thoughts:

      1) Maybe there was too much ink on the rollers.
      2) the star wheel was not close enough to the tympan (How far away
      should it be?)
      3) I am missing friction fingers. (What are friction fingers anyway?)

      Thanks to anyone in advance for the help!

      Thomas
    • Fritz Klinke
      What model Vandercook are you using? Star wheels and friction fingers help hold the sheet against the cylinder and away from the ink rollers. Friction fingers
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 25, 2004
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        What model Vandercook are you using? Star wheels and friction fingers help hold
        the sheet against the cylinder and away from the ink rollers. Friction fingers
        bite the dust quite easily and are missing from most Vandercooks. We do have new
        ones for the SP-15. Often it is necessary to print on oversize sheets and then
        trim them to allow for the problem you describe--the tail end of the sheet
        doesn't always want to lay against the cylinder. Direction of grain is important
        on many sheets as far as feeding goes on any cylinder press--grain should be
        parallel to the grippers for best results.

        Fritz

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Thomas Hollifield" <letterpress@...>
        To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
        Cc: <LETPRESS@...>
        Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 11:01 PM
        Subject: [PPLetterpress] minimizing ink slur


        Hello All,

        I was hoping that someone might have some tips on minimizing ink slur
        on a Vandercook. I am using polymer plates on a Bunting base printing
        onto Somerset Velvet paper. When I encountered this, the ink slur only
        occurred in an isolated spot on the plate. If I rotated or moved the
        plate on the base, the ink slur would not occur in the exact same spot
        but instead relocate to a different area. The problem was reduced by
        holding the paper tight against the tympan until the last moment,
        however, this did not eliminate the slur entirely. Plates smaller than
        3 by 3 inches did not slur during the same ink run - only the larger
        plates seemed to produce this problem.

        Here are my initial thoughts:

        1) Maybe there was too much ink on the rollers.
        2) the star wheel was not close enough to the tympan (How far away
        should it be?)
        3) I am missing friction fingers. (What are friction fingers anyway?)

        Thanks to anyone in advance for the help!

        Thomas


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      • Roderick
        Tape a small piece of paper against the cylinder. Tuck sheet to be printed under the edge of the paper. Crank. You should have clean edges. I run into this
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 25, 2004
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          Tape a small piece of paper against the cylinder. Tuck sheet to be printed under the edge of the paper. Crank. You should have clean edges. I run into this problem the most when I'm printing smaller than 4'x4' sheets of paper.

          > Roderick



          Fritz Klinke <nagraph@...> wrote:
          What model Vandercook are you using? Star wheels and friction fingers help hold
          the sheet against the cylinder and away from the ink rollers. Friction fingers
          bite the dust quite easily and are missing from most Vandercooks. We do have new
          ones for the SP-15. Often it is necessary to print on oversize sheets and then
          trim them to allow for the problem you describe--the tail end of the sheet
          doesn't always want to lay against the cylinder. Direction of grain is important
          on many sheets as far as feeding goes on any cylinder press--grain should be
          parallel to the grippers for best results.

          Fritz

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Thomas Hollifield" <letterpress@...>
          To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
          Cc: <LETPRESS@...>
          Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 11:01 PM
          Subject: [PPLetterpress] minimizing ink slur


          Hello All,

          I was hoping that someone might have some tips on minimizing ink slur
          on a Vandercook. I am using polymer plates on a Bunting base printing
          onto Somerset Velvet paper. When I encountered this, the ink slur only
          occurred in an isolated spot on the plate. If I rotated or moved the
          plate on the base, the ink slur would not occur in the exact same spot
          but instead relocate to a different area. The problem was reduced by
          holding the paper tight against the tympan until the last moment,
          however, this did not eliminate the slur entirely. Plates smaller than
          3 by 3 inches did not slur during the same ink run - only the larger
          plates seemed to produce this problem.

          Here are my initial thoughts:

          1) Maybe there was too much ink on the rollers.
          2) the star wheel was not close enough to the tympan (How far away
          should it be?)
          3) I am missing friction fingers. (What are friction fingers anyway?)

          Thanks to anyone in advance for the help!

          Thomas


          . To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
          PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          . Encountering problems? contact:
          PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
          . To unsubscribe:
          PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


          Yahoo! Groups Links

          To visit your group on the web, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





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        • Gerald Lange
          Thomas Slur can be caused by a number of problems. If your rollers are in good condition, you have them properly adjusted, your packing is correct, etc., then
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 26, 2004
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            Thomas

            Slur can be caused by a number of problems.

            If your rollers are in good condition, you have them properly adjusted, your packing is correct, etc., then I would guess that it does have much to do with the cylinder rotation and paper.

            I'm assuming you are talking about slurring at the end of the sheet here. If not, you have other problems. But if so, it's often best to use a longer sheet than you need. This is especially so if you are running against grain or the paper is stiff rather than limp. You can resolve this a bit by either cutting down afterward, figuring out some kind of work and turn imposition, dampening, etc.

            But paper will naturally flag (and slur if flapping) on a cylinder press like the Vandercook. Holding your hand position exactly in the same length area per sheet (directly down the center is good, a bit of random change to the left or
            right and you will alter registration - a little hand trick that can be useful at times!!!) will help greatly to reduce random flagging. And yes, the sheet must be held firm to the cylinder up until it is drawn out.

            But yes, star wheels, friction fingers, two of each, are somewhat of a necessity. Another little device that you will occasionally come across are short line-cast lead slugs with pins in them. These are set in the bed at a point beyond the form and catch the paper as it ends its flip. Quite useful. I love em. Can't remember what they are actually called. Alternative is to use double stick tape on the mylar cylinder and press down on the end of the paper sheet as the rotation brings the tape around. Won't work for long, has to be replaced as the adhesive loses its tack, but it will work, though you are at constant risk of sheets damaged from picking or those lost when the tack gives.

            Sorry if I'm a bit scattered here. Bit late. But, the problem can be resolved. Right tools, correct adjustments, working procedures, etc.

            Gerald



            Thomas Hollifield wrote:

            >Hello All,
            >
            >I was hoping that someone might have some tips on minimizing ink slur
            >on a Vandercook. I am using polymer plates on a Bunting base printing
            >onto Somerset Velvet paper. When I encountered this, the ink slur only
            >occurred in an isolated spot on the plate. If I rotated or moved the
            >plate on the base, the ink slur would not occur in the exact same spot
            >but instead relocate to a different area. The problem was reduced by
            >holding the paper tight against the tympan until the last moment,
            >however, this did not eliminate the slur entirely. Plates smaller than
            >3 by 3 inches did not slur during the same ink run - only the larger
            >plates seemed to produce this problem.
            >
            >Here are my initial thoughts:
            >
            >1) Maybe there was too much ink on the rollers.
            >2) the star wheel was not close enough to the tympan (How far away
            >should it be?)
            >3) I am missing friction fingers. (What are friction fingers anyway?)
            >
            >Thanks to anyone in advance for the help!
            >
            >Thomas
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Peter Fraterdeus
            I have in the past fabricated a type of tympan-paper frisket to hold the sheet tight to the cylinder. (In fact, this is how the iron hand-press handles the
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 26, 2004
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              I have in the past fabricated a type of tympan-paper frisket to hold the sheet tight to the cylinder.
              (In fact, this is how the iron hand-press handles the problem, since there also, the printed sheet is liable to droop against the type before or after the impression proper)

              In this arrangement, the sheet doesn't come off the press until the cylinder is returned to the starting position. One keeps tension on the tympan-sheet with the left hand through the whole cycle.
              Certain of the Vandercook models actually have something along these lines built onto the press, but I've only seen photos, never one in use. (Fritz?)

              I've also used a pair of thin strings tied to the grippers, which roll through the press (hopefully missing any printing matter) and back on the reverse.

              Anything that works to keep the stock from two-timing the form ;-)

              Peter

              >...
              >Thomas Hollifield wrote:
              >
              >>Hello All,
              >>
              >>I was hoping that someone might have some tips on minimizing ink slur
              >>on a Vandercook. I am using polymer plates on a Bunting base printing
              >>onto Somerset Velvet paper. When I encountered this, the ink slur only
              >>occurred in an isolated spot on the plate. If I rotated or moved the
              >>plate on the base, the ink slur would not occur in the exact same spot
              >>but instead relocate to a different area. The problem was reduced by
              >>holding the paper tight against the tympan until the last moment,
              >>however, this did not eliminate the slur entirely. Plates smaller than
              >>3 by 3 inches did not slur during the same ink run - only the larger
              >>plates seemed to produce this problem.
              >>
              >>Here are my initial thoughts:
              >>
              >>1) Maybe there was too much ink on the rollers.
              >>2) the star wheel was not close enough to the tympan (How far away
              >>should it be?)
              >>3) I am missing friction fingers. (What are friction fingers anyway?)
              >>
              >>Thanks to anyone in advance for the help!
              >>
              > >Thomas
              > >

              --
              AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@

              Peter Fraterdeus http://www.fraterdeus.com

              http://www.semiotx.com Web Strategy Consulting
              "Words that work."(tm) Communication Design and Typography
            • Jessica Spring
              Thomas-- The other trick that works to hold a flapping tail (or envelope flap) is to tape a strip of 3M removable tape--the same sort of adhesive as post-it
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 26, 2004
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                Thomas--
                The other trick that works to hold a flapping tail (or envelope flap) is to
                tape a strip of 3M removable tape--the same sort of adhesive as post-it
                notes--upside down on the cylinder (so the sticky side is up). As you print,
                tack the flapping paper down against the tape and it will hold through the
                revolution, but remove easily at the end leaving the paper fibers intact.
                --Jessica
              • Kat Ran Press
                I will occasionally place a piece of double sided tape on the top sheet where the end of the sheet will fall. I then slap it with my palm a few times to
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 26, 2004
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                  I will occasionally place a piece of double sided
                  tape on the top sheet where the end of the
                  sheet will fall. I then slap it with my palm a few
                  times to decrease its stickiness, which, if too
                  strong, can remove fibers and make pulling the
                  sheet out of the press difficult. After a few
                  impressions, the sheet will stay adhered to the
                  cylinder, but pop right up as soon as I reach for
                  it.

                  If possible, I'll run bearers down the whole
                  length of the form, and trim them off after.
                  This not only keeps the sheet adhered to the
                  cylinder, but will also equally distribute the
                  weight of the cylinder and rollers over the
                  form.



                  Michael
                  --
                  Kat Ran Press
                  221 Pine Street #108
                  Florence, Massachusetts 01062
                  413.584.1152 phone & fax
                  katran@...
                  http://www.katranpress.com
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