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Re: [PPLetterpress] inks

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  • Katie Harper
    While we re on the discussion of inks, I have a question. I bought an entire shop last summer from the son of a printer who passed away. The purchase included
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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      While we're on the discussion of inks, I have a question. I bought an entire
      shop last summer from the son of a printer who passed away. The purchase
      included many cans of ink (many!), most of which are pretty old. Some of the
      ink companies are now gone and I can't get information about the products.
      Is there any way to determine if the ink is a)good, b)appropriate for the
      job/paper, etc., other than trial and error? I have found to my chagrin that
      many of these inks are no longer any good, or they may be good alone but
      won't mix well with others.

      I have several cans of "Inmont IPI Speed King II, 44 Centerline Colors,
      Midnight Black, PL007" that are unopened and like new. I have also been
      using an opened can of black that seems to be working quite nicely,
      something mysterious (the label is long since obliterated with ink) which
      appears to be a soy-based ink. I have no idea if I can get any more of it.
      Does anyone else have experience with soy inks?

      Katie Harper
      Cincinnati, Ohio
    • Jim Camp
      I, too, have lots of old cans of inks, and in the two years or so I ve been at this, I don t hear too much about inks and their properties. What cans of ink do
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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        I, too, have lots of old cans of inks, and in the two
        years or so I've been at this, I don't hear too much
        about inks and their properties. What cans of ink do I
        keep; which ones should I toss??

        Thanks group!

        Jim Camp
        synaesthesia press

        --- Katie Harper <knharper@...> wrote:
        > While we're on the discussion of inks, I have a
        > question. I bought an entire
        > shop last summer from the son of a printer who
        > passed away. The purchase
        > included many cans of ink (many!), most of which are
        > pretty old. Some of the
        > ink companies are now gone and I can't get
        > information about the products.
        > Is there any way to determine if the ink is a)good,
        > b)appropriate for the
        > job/paper, etc., other than trial and error? I have
        > found to my chagrin that
        > many of these inks are no longer any good, or they
        > may be good alone but
        > won't mix well with others.
        >
        > I have several cans of "Inmont IPI Speed King II, 44
        > Centerline Colors,
        > Midnight Black, PL007" that are unopened and like
        > new. I have also been
        > using an opened can of black that seems to be
        > working quite nicely,
        > something mysterious (the label is long since
        > obliterated with ink) which
        > appears to be a soy-based ink. I have no idea if I
        > can get any more of it.
        > Does anyone else have experience with soy inks?
        >
        > Katie Harper
        > Cincinnati, Ohio
        >
        >
        >


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      • Brian Molanphy
        i don t have a good ink for polymer. mostly i print metal type, for which van son oil black , or, a mix of dan smith litho crayon black #68 and dan smith
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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          i don't have a good ink for polymer. mostly i print metal type, for which
          'van son oil black', or, a mix of 'dan smith litho crayon black #68' and
          'dan smith traditional rubber-base black' work fine. but when i print
          polymer plates, the ink doesn't like to stay on the surface of the plate.
          the print looks thin, with a build-up on the edges of the letters. worst is
          black. so i 'd like to hear more about which inks folks use, successfully.

          brian
        • thronobulx@aol.com
          I too have bought out some shops and inherited many cans of ink. Funny how cans of ink often outlive their owners.... Here s my two cents: I have used all
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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            I too have bought out some shops and inherited many cans of ink. Funny how
            cans of ink often outlive their owners....

            Here's my two cents: I have used all kinds of inks that were initially
            designed for offset or other methods of printing and they work just fine. As
            always, one is better off running a test on an unknown ink/paper combination.
            At worst, its just an extra washup.

            If the ink is hard and doesn't want to spread easily (this is especially true
            of old rubber based ink) dispose of it. Ancient oil ink will usually be hard
            right to the bottom of the can. Old metallic ink will often not print true to
            color. I've been told this has something to do with the metal flake used
            tarnishing over time.

            I've used some soy inks and they have been fine on uncoated stock. I can't
            say what they would be like for halftones or on uncoated stock.

            I would not recommend mixing inks from different brands, etc. Ink is cheap
            enough in the grand scheme of things.

            Hope this is of value.

            James
            B Designs
          • Dan Mayer
            Greetings all, In the book arts studio at Arizona State University I use Gans Small Press Rubber-Base Inks (mixing black #RBP010) for all letterpress and
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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              Greetings all,

              In the book arts studio at Arizona State University I use Gans Small Press
              Rubber-Base Inks (mixing black #RBP010) for all letterpress and polymer.
              Rarely do I have trouble with ink transfer from rollers to polymer to paper.
              On the occasion that I do (humidity, but mostly dry here in the desert) I
              add magnesium carbonate to the ink to tack it up.

              Dan Mayer

              Tempe, AZ




              on 12/4/01 1:52 PM, Brian Molanphy at bmolanphy@... wrote:

              > i don't have a good ink for polymer. mostly i print metal type, for which
              > 'van son oil black', or, a mix of 'dan smith litho crayon black #68' and
              > 'dan smith traditional rubber-base black' work fine. but when i print
              > polymer plates, the ink doesn't like to stay on the surface of the plate.
              > the print looks thin, with a build-up on the edges of the letters. worst is
              > black. so i 'd like to hear more about which inks folks use, successfully.
              >
              > brian
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
            • Harold Kyle
              I use Dan Smith inks on polymer plates without a problem. Highly recommended, in fact. It sounds to me like you have your inking rollers set too low. Any extra
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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                I use Dan Smith inks on polymer plates without a problem. Highly
                recommended, in fact.

                It sounds to me like you have your inking rollers set too low. Any
                extra pressure they exert on the face of the type will squish the ink
                out to the edges, resulting in hollow, bloated type.

                Because plastic does not wear at the edges like lead type, the face
                of a polymer plate is more unforgiving to low rollers: the
                rounded-ness of a worn lead letter will disguise the squeezing effect
                of the roller. In fact, you need to drop the rollers to ink all the
                worn parts of the face. On polymer any variation in roller height
                sticks out because of its extremely flat face.

                Or, equally likely, you have mounted a polymer plate on a base that
                lifts the face of the type above type-high. When the base was
                machined, poor tolerances of thickness or flatness could now cause
                parts or all of the plate to raise above type high. Check with a
                micrometer or type-high gauge to see if this might be the case. You
                need to make sure that you are mounting your plates on a surface that
                is as flat and even as your rollers and cylinder/platen. Maybe you
                could share what type of base and plates you are you using.

                If you find variation on your printing surface due to a poorly
                machined base, you might consider purchasing a Boxcar Base, whose
                thickness, flatness, and parallelism are all guaranteed within
                0.001", and will never raise a plate above type-high. You can find
                out more in Boxcar Press's catalog at www.boxcarpress.com.

                Is this helpful?

                Harold
                --
                ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
                Boxcar Press
                Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
                640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
                www.boxcarpress.com
                ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
              • typetom@aol.com
                Hi Brian, I agree with Harold. He beat me in responding. I was about to write to suggest you use a type-high gauge to check the height of the polymer and
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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                  Hi Brian,
                  I agree with Harold. He beat me in responding. I was about to write to
                  suggest you use a type-high gauge to check the height of the polymer and
                  backing together. Sounds to me like the inking rollers are hitting the
                  surface too hard -- leaves a halo effect, weak inking in the middle of an
                  image with extra ink around the edges. I have had no problem with Van Son
                  inks on polymers except this exact halo when don't adjust for one irregular
                  backing I have. Best regards, Tom

                  Tom Parson
                  Now It's Up To You Publications
                  157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
                  (303) 777-8951
                  http://members.aol.com/typetom
                • Gerald Lange
                  Dear David On the cylinder flatbed I use 36 point rule as roller supports running the length of the press bed for both metal and photopolymer. These run fairly
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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                    Dear David

                    On the cylinder flatbed I use 36 point rule as roller supports running the
                    length of the press bed for both metal and photopolymer. These run fairly
                    close to the rails to prevent ink stray (on the printed paper).

                    Like your idea. Probably more practical with the hand press? You could also
                    have sets of these made, at various heights of plate thickness, to test how
                    each might work with your particular inking practices, and with different
                    kinds of forms, type, solids, etc.

                    Let us know how it works out.

                    Gerald


                    David Goodrich wrote:
                    >
                    > Harold's comments on roller pressure are striking a raw nerve. I print on
                    > an iron hand press and have been planning to print some polymer plates using
                    > a magnetic backing. Has anyone had any experience in using roller bearers
                    > with polymer plates? I have been considering getting some long polymer
                    > strips made up about 1/4 inch wide which would be the equivalent to 18 point
                    > rules. These could be positioned on the magnetic backing to serve as roller
                    > bearers. Has anyone else tried this?
                    >
                    > David Goodrich
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • David Goodrich
                    Harold s comments on roller pressure are striking a raw nerve. I print on an iron hand press and have been planning to print some polymer plates using a
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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                      Harold's comments on roller pressure are striking a raw nerve. I print on
                      an iron hand press and have been planning to print some polymer plates using
                      a magnetic backing. Has anyone had any experience in using roller bearers
                      with polymer plates? I have been considering getting some long polymer
                      strips made up about 1/4 inch wide which would be the equivalent to 18 point
                      rules. These could be positioned on the magnetic backing to serve as roller
                      bearers. Has anyone else tried this?

                      David Goodrich
                    • Harry Reese
                      Dear Fritz, I would like to buy (at least) three of these one pound cans of Hostmann-Steinberg dense matte black inks. Do you have a minimum order? I have
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 8, 2001
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                        Dear Fritz,
                        I would like to buy (at least) three of these one pound cans of
                        Hostmann-Steinberg dense matte black inks. Do you have a minimum order?

                        I have purchased from your company as both an individual (Turkey Press) and from
                        my institution (Department of Art Studio, University of California, Santa
                        Barbara) but it may be best if I just sent a check in advance or gave you a
                        credit card number. I'll follow whatever payment method you recommend.

                        Do you carry any other inks?

                        We have a few hand-outs from NA Graphics, but not much appears to be up-to-date.
                        Since we have Vandercooks at home and at the UCSB campus, I'd like to know as
                        much as I can about what you have around or in stock.

                        Many thanks.

                        Harry Reese

                        Quoting Fritz Klinke <nagraph@...>:

                        > We stock the Hostmann-Steinberg dense matte black. We were alerted to the
                        > ink by Steve Heaver, and work with HS to provide the ink in one pound cans
                        > at $17.75 a can. HS is not at all keen on doing special runs of ink in one
                        > and two pound lots, so we typically order large quantities so that they
                        > will
                        > produce it for us. They have told me that 5 lbs is the smallest they will
                        > manufacture and their price at that level is like $35 a pound. It has been
                        > our largest seller, and is not even listed yet in our catalog.
                        > Hostmann-Steinberg is a German company, but has several ink plants in the
                        > US.
                        >
                        > I have used the ink on our SP-15, C&P, and Miehle Vertical. I have yet to
                        > try it on our Windmill. It does make for nice dense blacks, just as the
                        > name
                        > implies. I find it to be a bit slow in drying, so would allow sufficient
                        > drying time if a piece needs backing up. A drop of cobalt drier could be
                        > added if drying time is a problem. People tend to reorder this ink, so that
                        > is my index of customer satisfaction.
                        >
                        > Fritz Klinke, NA Graphics
                        > 1314 Greene Street, P.O. Box 467
                        > Silverton, Colorado 81433 USA
                        > 970-387-0212, fax 970-387-0127
                        > nagraph@frontie
                      • Fritz Klinke
                        Harry--The minimum order is $10.00, so no problem here. We have other oil inks, which are all letterpress based formulas, it s just that the Hostmann-Steinberg
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 8, 2001
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                          Harry--The minimum order is $10.00, so no problem here. We have other oil
                          inks, which are all letterpress based formulas, it's just that the
                          Hostmann-Steinberg is by comparison a superior ink. Our regular job black
                          works fine for most ordinary work, and once in a while, a gloss black is
                          desirable, which the H-S ink is not.

                          Our latest catalog is dated 1999, and prices have been changed mostly. We
                          have added the Bunting magnetic bases for photopolymer, at good prices, and
                          have been recasting ATF type--Garamond, Bulmer, Goudy Oldstyle, Engravers
                          Roman. The Vandercook list in the catalog is just the surface of what we
                          have, and since we have the Vandercook blueprint file, we furnish parts all
                          the time made to special order. And we can find almost everything else.

                          I'll just go ahead and process this order and pay from the invoice which
                          will be included with the package, usually in the plastic envelope that has
                          the UPS shipping label. My business partner went to UCSB, (and graduated
                          from UC Davis) so he'll be happy to hear his old school is buying something.

                          Thanks,

                          Fritz Klinke, NA Graphics
                          1314 Greene Street, P.O. Box 467
                          Silverton, Colorado 81433 USA
                          970-387-0212, fax 970-387-0127
                          nagraph@...






                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Harry Reese" <reese@...>
                          To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 3:55 PM
                          Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] inks


                          > Dear Fritz,
                          > I would like to buy (at least) three of these one pound cans of
                          > Hostmann-Steinberg dense matte black inks. Do you have a minimum order?
                          >
                          > I have purchased from your company as both an individual (Turkey Press)
                          and from
                          > my institution (Department of Art Studio, University of California, Santa
                          > Barbara) but it may be best if I just sent a check in advance or gave you
                          a
                          > credit card number. I'll follow whatever payment method you recommend.
                          >
                          > Do you carry any other inks?
                          >
                          > We have a few hand-outs from NA Graphics, but not much appears to be
                          up-to-date.
                          > Since we have Vandercooks at home and at the UCSB campus, I'd like to know
                          as
                          > much as I can about what you have around or in stock.
                          >
                          > Many thanks.
                          >
                          > Harry Reese
                          >
                          > Quoting Fritz Klinke <nagraph@...>:
                          >
                          > > We stock the Hostmann-Steinberg dense matte black. We were alerted to
                          the
                          > > ink by Steve Heaver, and work with HS to provide the ink in one pound
                          cans
                          > > at $17.75 a can.
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