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  • Inge Bruggeman
    In response to Gerald s query. . . I am very interested in any and all ink talk and how it relates to polymer. I use a lot of Van Son rubber-base inks, which
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 3, 2001
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      In response to Gerald's query. . . I am very interested in any and all ink
      talk and how it relates to polymer. I use a lot of Van Son rubber-base inks,
      which have worked very nicely for me, but am finding a richness and
      saturation in some oil-base inks now. I have been using the
      Hostmann-Steinberg
      Special Matte Black and like it quite a bit. I would like to hear other's
      response to this ink too, so if you try it out, let us know.

      Inge
      --

      ********************
      Inge Bruggeman
      Textura Letterpress Printing
      1017 SE 34th Avenue
      Portland, OR 97214

      www.texturaprinting.com



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • thronobulx@aol.com
      Where does one purchase this special matte black? I m game. James B Designs
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 3, 2001
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        Where does one purchase this special matte black? I'm game.

        James
        B Designs
      • Fritz Klinke
        We stock the Hostmann-Steinberg dense matte black. We were alerted to the ink by Steve Heaver, and work with HS to provide the ink in one pound cans at $17.75
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 3, 2001
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          We stock the Hostmann-Steinberg dense matte black. We were alerted to the
          ink by Steve Heaver, and work with HS to provide the ink in one pound cans
          at $17.75 a can. HS is not at all keen on doing special runs of ink in one
          and two pound lots, so we typically order large quantities so that they will
          produce it for us. They have told me that 5 lbs is the smallest they will
          manufacture and their price at that level is like $35 a pound. It has been
          our largest seller, and is not even listed yet in our catalog.
          Hostmann-Steinberg is a German company, but has several ink plants in the
          US.

          I have used the ink on our SP-15, C&P, and Miehle Vertical. I have yet to
          try it on our Windmill. It does make for nice dense blacks, just as the name
          implies. I find it to be a bit slow in drying, so would allow sufficient
          drying time if a piece needs backing up. A drop of cobalt drier could be
          added if drying time is a problem. People tend to reorder this ink, so that
          is my index of customer satisfaction.

          Fritz Klinke, NA Graphics
          1314 Greene Street, P.O. Box 467
          Silverton, Colorado 81433 USA
          970-387-0212, fax 970-387-0127
          nagraph@...

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <thronobulx@...>
          To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 8:00 PM
          Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] inks


          > Where does one purchase this special matte black? I'm game.
          >
          > James
          > B Designs
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • Katie Harper
          While we re on the discussion of inks, I have a question. I bought an entire shop last summer from the son of a printer who passed away. The purchase included
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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            While we're on the discussion of inks, I have a question. I bought an entire
            shop last summer from the son of a printer who passed away. The purchase
            included many cans of ink (many!), most of which are pretty old. Some of the
            ink companies are now gone and I can't get information about the products.
            Is there any way to determine if the ink is a)good, b)appropriate for the
            job/paper, etc., other than trial and error? I have found to my chagrin that
            many of these inks are no longer any good, or they may be good alone but
            won't mix well with others.

            I have several cans of "Inmont IPI Speed King II, 44 Centerline Colors,
            Midnight Black, PL007" that are unopened and like new. I have also been
            using an opened can of black that seems to be working quite nicely,
            something mysterious (the label is long since obliterated with ink) which
            appears to be a soy-based ink. I have no idea if I can get any more of it.
            Does anyone else have experience with soy inks?

            Katie Harper
            Cincinnati, Ohio
          • Jim Camp
            I, too, have lots of old cans of inks, and in the two years or so I ve been at this, I don t hear too much about inks and their properties. What cans of ink do
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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              I, too, have lots of old cans of inks, and in the two
              years or so I've been at this, I don't hear too much
              about inks and their properties. What cans of ink do I
              keep; which ones should I toss??

              Thanks group!

              Jim Camp
              synaesthesia press

              --- Katie Harper <knharper@...> wrote:
              > While we're on the discussion of inks, I have a
              > question. I bought an entire
              > shop last summer from the son of a printer who
              > passed away. The purchase
              > included many cans of ink (many!), most of which are
              > pretty old. Some of the
              > ink companies are now gone and I can't get
              > information about the products.
              > Is there any way to determine if the ink is a)good,
              > b)appropriate for the
              > job/paper, etc., other than trial and error? I have
              > found to my chagrin that
              > many of these inks are no longer any good, or they
              > may be good alone but
              > won't mix well with others.
              >
              > I have several cans of "Inmont IPI Speed King II, 44
              > Centerline Colors,
              > Midnight Black, PL007" that are unopened and like
              > new. I have also been
              > using an opened can of black that seems to be
              > working quite nicely,
              > something mysterious (the label is long since
              > obliterated with ink) which
              > appears to be a soy-based ink. I have no idea if I
              > can get any more of it.
              > Does anyone else have experience with soy inks?
              >
              > Katie Harper
              > Cincinnati, Ohio
              >
              >
              >


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            • Brian Molanphy
              i don t have a good ink for polymer. mostly i print metal type, for which van son oil black , or, a mix of dan smith litho crayon black #68 and dan smith
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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                i don't have a good ink for polymer. mostly i print metal type, for which
                'van son oil black', or, a mix of 'dan smith litho crayon black #68' and
                'dan smith traditional rubber-base black' work fine. but when i print
                polymer plates, the ink doesn't like to stay on the surface of the plate.
                the print looks thin, with a build-up on the edges of the letters. worst is
                black. so i 'd like to hear more about which inks folks use, successfully.

                brian
              • thronobulx@aol.com
                I too have bought out some shops and inherited many cans of ink. Funny how cans of ink often outlive their owners.... Here s my two cents: I have used all
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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                  I too have bought out some shops and inherited many cans of ink. Funny how
                  cans of ink often outlive their owners....

                  Here's my two cents: I have used all kinds of inks that were initially
                  designed for offset or other methods of printing and they work just fine. As
                  always, one is better off running a test on an unknown ink/paper combination.
                  At worst, its just an extra washup.

                  If the ink is hard and doesn't want to spread easily (this is especially true
                  of old rubber based ink) dispose of it. Ancient oil ink will usually be hard
                  right to the bottom of the can. Old metallic ink will often not print true to
                  color. I've been told this has something to do with the metal flake used
                  tarnishing over time.

                  I've used some soy inks and they have been fine on uncoated stock. I can't
                  say what they would be like for halftones or on uncoated stock.

                  I would not recommend mixing inks from different brands, etc. Ink is cheap
                  enough in the grand scheme of things.

                  Hope this is of value.

                  James
                  B Designs
                • Dan Mayer
                  Greetings all, In the book arts studio at Arizona State University I use Gans Small Press Rubber-Base Inks (mixing black #RBP010) for all letterpress and
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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                    Greetings all,

                    In the book arts studio at Arizona State University I use Gans Small Press
                    Rubber-Base Inks (mixing black #RBP010) for all letterpress and polymer.
                    Rarely do I have trouble with ink transfer from rollers to polymer to paper.
                    On the occasion that I do (humidity, but mostly dry here in the desert) I
                    add magnesium carbonate to the ink to tack it up.

                    Dan Mayer

                    Tempe, AZ




                    on 12/4/01 1:52 PM, Brian Molanphy at bmolanphy@... wrote:

                    > i don't have a good ink for polymer. mostly i print metal type, for which
                    > 'van son oil black', or, a mix of 'dan smith litho crayon black #68' and
                    > 'dan smith traditional rubber-base black' work fine. but when i print
                    > polymer plates, the ink doesn't like to stay on the surface of the plate.
                    > the print looks thin, with a build-up on the edges of the letters. worst is
                    > black. so i 'd like to hear more about which inks folks use, successfully.
                    >
                    > brian
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Harold Kyle
                    I use Dan Smith inks on polymer plates without a problem. Highly recommended, in fact. It sounds to me like you have your inking rollers set too low. Any extra
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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                      I use Dan Smith inks on polymer plates without a problem. Highly
                      recommended, in fact.

                      It sounds to me like you have your inking rollers set too low. Any
                      extra pressure they exert on the face of the type will squish the ink
                      out to the edges, resulting in hollow, bloated type.

                      Because plastic does not wear at the edges like lead type, the face
                      of a polymer plate is more unforgiving to low rollers: the
                      rounded-ness of a worn lead letter will disguise the squeezing effect
                      of the roller. In fact, you need to drop the rollers to ink all the
                      worn parts of the face. On polymer any variation in roller height
                      sticks out because of its extremely flat face.

                      Or, equally likely, you have mounted a polymer plate on a base that
                      lifts the face of the type above type-high. When the base was
                      machined, poor tolerances of thickness or flatness could now cause
                      parts or all of the plate to raise above type high. Check with a
                      micrometer or type-high gauge to see if this might be the case. You
                      need to make sure that you are mounting your plates on a surface that
                      is as flat and even as your rollers and cylinder/platen. Maybe you
                      could share what type of base and plates you are you using.

                      If you find variation on your printing surface due to a poorly
                      machined base, you might consider purchasing a Boxcar Base, whose
                      thickness, flatness, and parallelism are all guaranteed within
                      0.001", and will never raise a plate above type-high. You can find
                      out more in Boxcar Press's catalog at www.boxcarpress.com.

                      Is this helpful?

                      Harold
                      --
                      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
                      Boxcar Press
                      Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
                      640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
                      www.boxcarpress.com
                      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
                    • typetom@aol.com
                      Hi Brian, I agree with Harold. He beat me in responding. I was about to write to suggest you use a type-high gauge to check the height of the polymer and
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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                        Hi Brian,
                        I agree with Harold. He beat me in responding. I was about to write to
                        suggest you use a type-high gauge to check the height of the polymer and
                        backing together. Sounds to me like the inking rollers are hitting the
                        surface too hard -- leaves a halo effect, weak inking in the middle of an
                        image with extra ink around the edges. I have had no problem with Van Son
                        inks on polymers except this exact halo when don't adjust for one irregular
                        backing I have. Best regards, Tom

                        Tom Parson
                        Now It's Up To You Publications
                        157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
                        (303) 777-8951
                        http://members.aol.com/typetom
                      • Gerald Lange
                        Dear David On the cylinder flatbed I use 36 point rule as roller supports running the length of the press bed for both metal and photopolymer. These run fairly
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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                          Dear David

                          On the cylinder flatbed I use 36 point rule as roller supports running the
                          length of the press bed for both metal and photopolymer. These run fairly
                          close to the rails to prevent ink stray (on the printed paper).

                          Like your idea. Probably more practical with the hand press? You could also
                          have sets of these made, at various heights of plate thickness, to test how
                          each might work with your particular inking practices, and with different
                          kinds of forms, type, solids, etc.

                          Let us know how it works out.

                          Gerald


                          David Goodrich wrote:
                          >
                          > Harold's comments on roller pressure are striking a raw nerve. I print on
                          > an iron hand press and have been planning to print some polymer plates using
                          > a magnetic backing. Has anyone had any experience in using roller bearers
                          > with polymer plates? I have been considering getting some long polymer
                          > strips made up about 1/4 inch wide which would be the equivalent to 18 point
                          > rules. These could be positioned on the magnetic backing to serve as roller
                          > bearers. Has anyone else tried this?
                          >
                          > David Goodrich
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        • David Goodrich
                          Harold s comments on roller pressure are striking a raw nerve. I print on an iron hand press and have been planning to print some polymer plates using a
                          Message 12 of 14 , Dec 4, 2001
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                            Harold's comments on roller pressure are striking a raw nerve. I print on
                            an iron hand press and have been planning to print some polymer plates using
                            a magnetic backing. Has anyone had any experience in using roller bearers
                            with polymer plates? I have been considering getting some long polymer
                            strips made up about 1/4 inch wide which would be the equivalent to 18 point
                            rules. These could be positioned on the magnetic backing to serve as roller
                            bearers. Has anyone else tried this?

                            David Goodrich
                          • Harry Reese
                            Dear Fritz, I would like to buy (at least) three of these one pound cans of Hostmann-Steinberg dense matte black inks. Do you have a minimum order? I have
                            Message 13 of 14 , Dec 8, 2001
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                              Dear Fritz,
                              I would like to buy (at least) three of these one pound cans of
                              Hostmann-Steinberg dense matte black inks. Do you have a minimum order?

                              I have purchased from your company as both an individual (Turkey Press) and from
                              my institution (Department of Art Studio, University of California, Santa
                              Barbara) but it may be best if I just sent a check in advance or gave you a
                              credit card number. I'll follow whatever payment method you recommend.

                              Do you carry any other inks?

                              We have a few hand-outs from NA Graphics, but not much appears to be up-to-date.
                              Since we have Vandercooks at home and at the UCSB campus, I'd like to know as
                              much as I can about what you have around or in stock.

                              Many thanks.

                              Harry Reese

                              Quoting Fritz Klinke <nagraph@...>:

                              > We stock the Hostmann-Steinberg dense matte black. We were alerted to the
                              > ink by Steve Heaver, and work with HS to provide the ink in one pound cans
                              > at $17.75 a can. HS is not at all keen on doing special runs of ink in one
                              > and two pound lots, so we typically order large quantities so that they
                              > will
                              > produce it for us. They have told me that 5 lbs is the smallest they will
                              > manufacture and their price at that level is like $35 a pound. It has been
                              > our largest seller, and is not even listed yet in our catalog.
                              > Hostmann-Steinberg is a German company, but has several ink plants in the
                              > US.
                              >
                              > I have used the ink on our SP-15, C&P, and Miehle Vertical. I have yet to
                              > try it on our Windmill. It does make for nice dense blacks, just as the
                              > name
                              > implies. I find it to be a bit slow in drying, so would allow sufficient
                              > drying time if a piece needs backing up. A drop of cobalt drier could be
                              > added if drying time is a problem. People tend to reorder this ink, so that
                              > is my index of customer satisfaction.
                              >
                              > Fritz Klinke, NA Graphics
                              > 1314 Greene Street, P.O. Box 467
                              > Silverton, Colorado 81433 USA
                              > 970-387-0212, fax 970-387-0127
                              > nagraph@frontie
                            • Fritz Klinke
                              Harry--The minimum order is $10.00, so no problem here. We have other oil inks, which are all letterpress based formulas, it s just that the Hostmann-Steinberg
                              Message 14 of 14 , Dec 8, 2001
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                                Harry--The minimum order is $10.00, so no problem here. We have other oil
                                inks, which are all letterpress based formulas, it's just that the
                                Hostmann-Steinberg is by comparison a superior ink. Our regular job black
                                works fine for most ordinary work, and once in a while, a gloss black is
                                desirable, which the H-S ink is not.

                                Our latest catalog is dated 1999, and prices have been changed mostly. We
                                have added the Bunting magnetic bases for photopolymer, at good prices, and
                                have been recasting ATF type--Garamond, Bulmer, Goudy Oldstyle, Engravers
                                Roman. The Vandercook list in the catalog is just the surface of what we
                                have, and since we have the Vandercook blueprint file, we furnish parts all
                                the time made to special order. And we can find almost everything else.

                                I'll just go ahead and process this order and pay from the invoice which
                                will be included with the package, usually in the plastic envelope that has
                                the UPS shipping label. My business partner went to UCSB, (and graduated
                                from UC Davis) so he'll be happy to hear his old school is buying something.

                                Thanks,

                                Fritz Klinke, NA Graphics
                                1314 Greene Street, P.O. Box 467
                                Silverton, Colorado 81433 USA
                                970-387-0212, fax 970-387-0127
                                nagraph@...






                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Harry Reese" <reese@...>
                                To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 3:55 PM
                                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] inks


                                > Dear Fritz,
                                > I would like to buy (at least) three of these one pound cans of
                                > Hostmann-Steinberg dense matte black inks. Do you have a minimum order?
                                >
                                > I have purchased from your company as both an individual (Turkey Press)
                                and from
                                > my institution (Department of Art Studio, University of California, Santa
                                > Barbara) but it may be best if I just sent a check in advance or gave you
                                a
                                > credit card number. I'll follow whatever payment method you recommend.
                                >
                                > Do you carry any other inks?
                                >
                                > We have a few hand-outs from NA Graphics, but not much appears to be
                                up-to-date.
                                > Since we have Vandercooks at home and at the UCSB campus, I'd like to know
                                as
                                > much as I can about what you have around or in stock.
                                >
                                > Many thanks.
                                >
                                > Harry Reese
                                >
                                > Quoting Fritz Klinke <nagraph@...>:
                                >
                                > > We stock the Hostmann-Steinberg dense matte black. We were alerted to
                                the
                                > > ink by Steve Heaver, and work with HS to provide the ink in one pound
                                cans
                                > > at $17.75 a can.
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