Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

yep, you guessed it: Moving a C&P

Expand Messages
  • letpresslist@bluebarnhouse.org
    Hi all- I m another one of those proud new owners of a C&P, this one is circa 1890 (no clue on the model) and now I have the pleasure of picking it up and
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 30, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi all-

      I'm another one of those proud new owners of a C&P, this one is circa
      1890 (no clue on the model) and now I have the pleasure of picking it
      up and driving it from Cincinnati to Asheville, NC next week...

      I have been searching the archives about C&P and have read all the
      horror stories up to 1998 (5000+ postings on the C&P, people.) . my
      hope is that i don't have to add such a story to the list.

      There's only two of us picking it up. I understand that I'm not going
      to be dealing with any stairwell and that it's a "walk-in basement".
      I'm not sure of a door size and have yet to hear back from him on the
      matter, but in his posting he said "may have to take apart." I've been
      waiting to hear from him to get some better assessment to You the Wise
      People of the Listserv, but i can wait no longer.

      I'm wondering what the best approach is, what kind of tools I would
      need, diagrams i can reference, what i should leave alone, etc. Also
      any do's and don'ts on how to move this puppy would be very helpful and
      I'm wondering what the best way to strap it in would be so it doesn't
      fall over.

      (here is a link to the C&P:
      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/
      eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2558483640&category=26251&rd=1) (any idea
      on its weight?)

      I'm going with Budget on the rental truck... they have models with
      either a lift gate or a loading ramp, though nobody at Budget can tell
      me what the max weight the lift gates can carry. Is this a good move?
      Also already in my meager arsenal is a hand truck and a furniture dolly.

      I sort of wish this were Dagobah and I had Yoda around to lift the C&P
      merely by straining his brow and moving his arms around as if he were
      sleepwalking.

      Thanks so much! I'm sure now that I have a press I'll be sure to bug
      you all with all kinds of questions.

      Take care,

      Brandon Mise
      Blue Barnhouse
    • Jsf73@aol.com
      Brandon, Congratulations on the new press. I saw it for sale on ebay, but I never had a response from the gentleman to my own questions so I didnt bid on it.
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 30, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        Brandon,

        Congratulations on the 'new' press. I saw it for sale on ebay, but I never
        had a response from the gentleman to my own questions so I didnt bid on it.

        I have moved late 1800's era metal lathes and I warn you to be very careful
        of stressing the castings. Cast iron is brittle and can take very little
        lateral stress. Rigging is very tricky and best left to professionals... however too
        late for that. Besides it is nice to save the money.

        My advice is to strip the press down as much as possible, especially removing
        the flywheel which weighs a fair bit, and dont try to slide the press at all
        or you risk farcturing the cast iron.

        Here are some recommended moving tips from greendolfin web site

        http://www.greendolphinpress.com/letterpress-faq.html#2.6

        2.6 What's the best way to move a Gordon Style (e.g., Pearl, C&P) Press
        From: "David M. Norton" Here're some directions for all you people moving C&P
        style presses. Several people have used these directions without problems.
        Press Moving--Gordon Style
        TOOLS

        I use a gear puller to remove gears and separate the flywheelfrom the shaft.
        Sears sells them and you can often rent one fromtool rental stores. If the
        puller hooks slide off the flywheelbecause of the curvature of the casting,
        bridge between two spokeswith pieces of strap iron (mine are 1/4" x 1-1/4" and
        onceconnected the handle to a hand lawn mower) and hook the gear pulleronto
        them.You also need a heavy screwdriver, wrecking bar (crow bar orwhatever), platen
        adjusting wrench (should come with the press oryou can use a big Crescent),
        hammer and dowel (hunk of a broom ormop handle) if you pull the shaft connecting
        the bed and roller armassembly to the frame, assorted scraps of wood, perhaps
        a propanetorch, and a good vocabulary in case you mash a finger or break
        acasting.Some castings break easily. I dropped one eight or ten inchesonto a wooden
        box and it snapped, but my friendly local welderfixed it good as new. The
        rule is: don't force and don't drop.DISASSEMBLY

        1. If possible, locate the press so there is at least five feetof open space
        behind it, three or four feet on the flywheel side,and a couple feet on the
        front and right side2. Remove feedboard and delivery board3. Remove platena.
        Disconnect gripper assembly by removing wheel riding in aslot attached to the
        left side of the frameb. Remove nuts from adjusting bolts under corners of
        theplatenc. Lift platen off (may take a little gentle urging with a prybar)d. Leave
        adjusting bolts in platen (don't turn) unless theymake moving difficult4.
        Remove treadle if there is onea. Unhook from main shaftb. Remove brackets at rear
        of press5. Close up press and tie bed and frame sections securelytogether with
        strong rope or wire6. Remove ink disc and supporting brackets7. Remove fly
        wheel and shafta. Pull belt wheel from end of shaft opposite flywheel, ifthere
        is oneb. Pull gear from end of shaft opposite flywheel (you may haveto heat it
        with a propane torch to get it off)c. Remove bolts from shaft retainer plate
        on flywheel side offramed. Pull shaft from frame--slides out on flywheel side
        takingretainer plate with ite. Flywheel may be pulled from shaft for ease in
        moving8. Remove throw-off lever and linkage if there is one9. Remove brake if
        there is one10. Remove motor if there is one attached to the press11. Remove
        back plate connecting roller carriers. Don't let rollercarriers flop down12.
        Remove side arms connecting bed and frame13. Remove roller carrier actuating arm
        on flywheel side of press.Hold left roller carrier to prevent flopping14.
        Remove roller carriers15. Untie bed and swivel it back onto the floor without
        dropping.Careful, it's heavy, you may want some help16. Wedge blocks of wood
        between arms of bed piece and the floor,as close to the frame as possible17. Drive
        out shaft holding bed to frame. Some presses havecollars with set screws to
        keep the shaft from moving. Ifso, loosen set screws before driving out shaftThis
        should get you down to pieces two or three people canhandle without much
        trouble. Most of it you can do yourself. (Itake the bed and frame of an 8 x 12 in
        one load in the stationwagon, with a helper. Get the rest of the press in
        another load bymyself. If you have a C&P Model N you might need a pick-up truckand
        more help--it's a heavy monster.I don't recommend the following but you may
        have to do it:You now have a frame with a shaft on the front with a gear on
        theright and a wheel or gear on the left. Main gear, on the right, iscast and
        contains the track for moving the platen. It breaks easilyand is difficult to
        weld. The wheel (or gear) on the left end ofthe shaft is often also a casting and
        fragile.The platen block has an arm on the right side with a wheel(cam rider)
        on its end that rides in a slot in the main gear. Whenthe main gear is moved
        to the right this wheel slides out of thecam slot of the gear and, if not
        supported, the platen block willrotate on its shaft and flop over with a crash. On
        some models thecam rider arm (another casting) will hit the frame and snap.If
        you must strip down the frame:1. Pull the gear or wheel on the left side of
        the frame. Goeasily, using heat, penetrating oil, WD40, prayer,profanity, or
        anything else you think might help. Becareful not to push the shaft to the right
        as you'repulling the gear.2. Hold the platen block so it can't flop and move
        the shaft tothe right until the platen block cam rider disengagesfrom the main
        gear. Carefully ease the platen block down,letting it pivot toward the rear of
        the press. Finishpulling the main gear and shaft as a unit.3. Remove the
        plates on each side of the frame holding the platenblock (remove bolts and lift
        plates off)4. Carefully lift off the platen block5. Unscrew nuts on ends of
        cross braces and the frame should slipapartCLEANING & INSPECTING

        Now that you have the press apart, clean it up. Pay specialattention to gummy
        or hardened crud on bearing surfaces. Lacquerthinner or WD40 and elbow grease
        should shine them up. Clean outoil holes with a nail or small drill if
        necessary.Check all wheels that ride on cams for roundness. If any haveflat surfaces
        have them built up by brazing or welding and turnedtrue, or it may be cheaper
        to have new ones made from bar stock. Ihad a flat spot on a cam rider brazed
        slightly oversize, thencarefully filed it down to round, some 20 years ago.
        Cost me abouta buck and is still going strong, although it looks a little
        odd.Could have had one machined for several bucks.REASSEMBLY

        I put the frame on 2x4 skids, extending three or four inchesbeyond the legs
        front and back. I can get a wrecking bar under oneskid, lift it about 1/4" and
        block it up, then the other sideditto, lifting it a little at a time so as not
        to put too muchstress on the frame castings, until I can get pieces of
        1"galvanized pipe under each skid. With this I can move a fullyassembled 10 x 15
        press by myself, assisted by an occasional hellor damn. Get a pipe under one end,
        roll it a ways, get another pipeunder it, roll it, move pipe, etc. To turn
        corners, angle thepipes. If the thickness of the skids makes the press too high
        forcomfortable feeding stand on some scraps of carpeting or rug padfor right
        height and soft footing.Don't try to assemble the press on rollers, you'll
        chase itall over the shop. Mount skids, assemble, then put on rollers tomove into
        place.Put the monster back together by following the taking apartinstructions
        backwards. Blow out oil holes and wipe bearings as yougo along--grit cuts
        metal. Since all bearings will be dry, giveeach a shot of oil before moving the
        parts.If you have a counterweighted flywheel you may have to playwith it a bit
        before you get the press running smoothly. If it runslopsidedly, or jerkily, or
        some other kind of crazily, pull thebull gear (main shaft, opposite
        flywheel), move it about a quarterturn, and try again. Gear teeth may be marked for
        matching, whichsimplifies the job.ADJUSTING THE PLATEN

        I usually adjust the platen when I'm ready to run a job--nosense inking and
        washing a press just to adjust the monster.Get a cap M or H, 48 pt. or larger,
        preferably damaged but notsquashed under type high. Tape a 2 pt. lead to the
        face. Find apiece of string a couple of feet long and tie one end around
        thesides of the type.Remove the tympan and all packing.Close the press, stopping it
        with the platen lock (under thedelivery board) snapped into place and the
        rollers at the top ofthe plate.Grasp the string and let the piece of type slide
        down betweenthe platen and bed on the left side. If it won't go in, loosen
        thelock nuts and back off the platen adjusting bolts. If it rattlesaround, take up
        the bolts. Using the string, slide the type up anddown and back and forth. Set
        the platen as snugly as possible tothe type+lead without binding.Lock up a
        form with a cap H or M, about 48 pt., about fivepicas from each corner of the
        chase. Move the grippers out of theway.Ink up the press and put on a tympan.
        Drop the form in and tryan impression. Build up with hard packing until you get
        a kissimpression on at least one corner. Adjust platen bolts for a
        kissimpression on each corner.Now your platen is level and, by adjusting packing, you
        shouldbe able to run anything from a single character to a full form onanything
        from tissue to card stock. Throw the damn adjusting wrenchaway!If you're going
        to run extremely heavy stock you may want touse a 3 or 4 pt. lead on the face
        of the letter used as a gauge toback the impression off enough to accept the
        heavier stock. Be sureto use hard packing to build up for thinner stock.Sounds
        complicated, but it's the fastest technique I've runinto. I can set up a press
        in fifteen or twenty minutes with luck,with problems it may take half an
        hour.I have a steel type high block I use but a letter works justas well if you
        don't squeeze it. You can easily squash it undertype high with a medium pull on
        an adjusting nut, so be careful.





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Roderick
        B, Here are a few manuals to check before and after assembling: http://www.boxcarpress.com/flywheel/index.html
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          B,

          Here are a few manuals to check before and after assembling:

          http://www.boxcarpress.com/flywheel/index.html
          http://web.camasnet.com/~shockey/printing/cppart01.html

          Best, Roderick


          letpresslist@... wrote:
          Hi all-

          I'm another one of those proud new owners of a C&P, this one is circa
          1890 (no clue on the model) and now I have the pleasure of picking it
          up and driving it from Cincinnati to Asheville, NC next week...

          I have been searching the archives about C&P and have read all the
          horror stories up to 1998 (5000+ postings on the C&P, people.) . my
          hope is that i don't have to add such a story to the list.

          There's only two of us picking it up. I understand that I'm not going
          to be dealing with any stairwell and that it's a "walk-in basement".
          I'm not sure of a door size and have yet to hear back from him on the
          matter, but in his posting he said "may have to take apart." I've been
          waiting to hear from him to get some better assessment to You the Wise
          People of the Listserv, but i can wait no longer.

          I'm wondering what the best approach is, what kind of tools I would
          need, diagrams i can reference, what i should leave alone, etc. Also
          any do's and don'ts on how to move this puppy would be very helpful and
          I'm wondering what the best way to strap it in would be so it doesn't
          fall over.

          (here is a link to the C&P:
          http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/
          eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2558483640&category=26251&rd=1) (any idea
          on its weight?)

          I'm going with Budget on the rental truck... they have models with
          either a lift gate or a loading ramp, though nobody at Budget can tell
          me what the max weight the lift gates can carry. Is this a good move?
          Also already in my meager arsenal is a hand truck and a furniture dolly.

          I sort of wish this were Dagobah and I had Yoda around to lift the C&P
          merely by straining his brow and moving his arms around as if he were
          sleepwalking.

          Thanks so much! I'm sure now that I have a press I'll be sure to bug
          you all with all kinds of questions.

          Take care,

          Brandon Mise
          Blue Barnhouse


          Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

          � To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
          PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          � Encountering problems? contact:
          PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
          � To unsubscribe:
          PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




          ---------------------------------
          Do you Yahoo!?
          The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • riverrider2
          Brandon, It sounds like you got a good deal on this set up. A press and many fonts for that price is a bargain! I couldn t tell is the press was an 8x12 or a
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Brandon,

            It sounds like you got a good deal on this set up. A press and many
            fonts for that price is a bargain!

            I couldn't tell is the press was an 8x12 or a 10x15. The difference
            in weight is substantial. An 8x12 weighs in the 1200Lb range, a
            10x15 is about 1800 Lbs, maybe more.

            I've moved a couple of 8x12, one of which was on wooden runners like
            the once shown. You can move these presses without disassembly. For
            that long distance you'll want to remove the flywheel in any case, as
            I've heard of the weight of the wheel breaking the drive shaft.

            Go with the lift gate truck. A ramp is useless in these weight
            ranges. If the ramp bends under the stress you are out a press and
            will have to pay for the ramp. I rented a lift gate truck from
            Ryder and was told that the gate could handle something like 4000
            lbs. Do get specifics from the renter.

            The main concerns with lift gates are steadying the press during the
            up and down travel, as they are a bit "jerky". They also slope
            slightly away from the truck a bit. The other concern is getting the
            press up onto the ramp. A couple of good strong backs can muscle it,
            but it's not easy. A come along would be a good idea to bring with
            you.

            The best tool for moving a press is a pallet jack. It lifts a ton
            and has wheels that are steerable. Tool rental places will carry
            these. A press on skids is a bit trickier, I put some wood on one of
            the skids and jacked up under the center of the press against some of
            the cross bars underneath it. You have to jack it up only enough to
            drag it along. If you go too high, you risk toppling it over.

            If it's possible to get the press onto a skid, you're golden. It
            would be tough to do though. Once on a skid (re-enforced with heavy
            plywood), you bolt it down and can move it at will with the pallet
            jack.


            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, letpresslist@b... wrote:
            > Hi all-
            >
            > I'm another one of those proud new owners of a C&P, this one is
            circa
            > 1890 (no clue on the model) and now I have the pleasure of picking
            it
            > up and driving it from Cincinnati to Asheville, NC next week...
            >
            > I have been searching the archives about C&P and have read all the
            > horror stories up to 1998 (5000+ postings on the C&P, people.) .
            my
            > hope is that i don't have to add such a story to the list.
            >
            > There's only two of us picking it up. I understand that I'm not
            going
            > to be dealing with any stairwell and that it's a "walk-in
            basement".
            > I'm not sure of a door size and have yet to hear back from him on
            the
            > matter, but in his posting he said "may have to take apart." I've
            been
            > waiting to hear from him to get some better assessment to You the
            Wise
            > People of the Listserv, but i can wait no longer.
            >
            > I'm wondering what the best approach is, what kind of tools I
            would
            > need, diagrams i can reference, what i should leave alone, etc.
            Also
            > any do's and don'ts on how to move this puppy would be very helpful
            and
            > I'm wondering what the best way to strap it in would be so it
            doesn't
            > fall over.
            >
            > (here is a link to the C&P:
            > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/
            > eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2558483640&category=26251&rd=1) (any
            idea
            > on its weight?)
            >
            > I'm going with Budget on the rental truck... they have models with
            > either a lift gate or a loading ramp, though nobody at Budget can
            tell
            > me what the max weight the lift gates can carry. Is this a good
            move?
            > Also already in my meager arsenal is a hand truck and a furniture
            dolly.
            >
            > I sort of wish this were Dagobah and I had Yoda around to lift the
            C&P
            > merely by straining his brow and moving his arms around as if he
            were
            > sleepwalking.
            >
            > Thanks so much! I'm sure now that I have a press I'll be sure to
            bug
            > you all with all kinds of questions.
            >
            > Take care,
            >
            > Brandon Mise
            > Blue Barnhouse
          • E Roustom
            ... Right On! As with everything else said in this email... an 8x12 is fairly easy. 10x15 is quite a challenge. ... This is easy... you can use a pump jack
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              > I couldn't tell is the press was an 8x12 or a 10x15. The difference
              > in weight is substantial. An 8x12 weighs in the 1200Lb range, a
              > 10x15 is about 1800 Lbs, maybe more.
              Right On! As with everything else said in this email... an 8x12 is fairly
              easy. 10x15 is quite a challenge.

              > If it's possible to get the press onto a skid, you're golden...
              This is easy... you can use a pump jack (you can buy one for little money at
              any hardware store). Raise the press in small increments, onto pieces of
              wood fruniture, one leg at a time - untill press high enough to have 2x4's
              slipped under (replacing the furniture) and screwed into place (like skis).
              Then these can be lifted with the press in same manner to wheel pallet jack
              under, or to roll on pipes.

              Good luck,

              Elias
            • Ed Inman
              I think these weights may be a little bit on the high side. The last model N C&P s weighed 1050 lbs. for an 8 x 12 and 1500 lbs. for a 10 x 15 according to
              Message 6 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                I think these weights may be a little bit on the high side. The last model
                N C&P's weighed 1050 lbs. for an 8 x 12 and 1500 lbs. for a 10 x 15
                according to factory specs. printed in the 1971-72 American Printing Equip.
                catalog. I don't think the older style C&P's would have necessarily been
                any heavier.
                Ed

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "riverrider2"
                >>>>I couldn't tell is the press was an 8x12 or a 10x15. The difference
                in weight is substantial. An 8x12 weighs in the 1200Lb range, a
                10x15 is about 1800 Lbs, maybe more.<<<<
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.