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Re: [PPLetterpress] desperate for micro-adjustments & registration

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  • typetom@aol.com
    Hi Jim, What s wrong with unlocking the block and adding thin strips of paper or cardstock beside it to move it slightly before re-locking? That would be the
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 16, 2003
      Hi Jim,
      What's wrong with unlocking the block and adding thin strips of paper or
      cardstock beside it to move it slightly before re-locking? That would be the
      traditional method. Or am I missing something that makes it more complicated?
      Tom

      Tom Parson
      Now It's Up To You Publications
      157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
      (303) 777-8951
      http://members.aol.com/typetom
    • Phillip Driscoll
      There used to be (perhaps still available from NA Graphics) special adjustment quoins which were threaded. When the form was on the press, you could turn the
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 16, 2003
        There used to be (perhaps still available from NA Graphics) special
        adjustment quoins which were threaded. When the form was on the
        press, you could turn the screw in these with a piece of wire to move
        the form just a very slight amount.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <InkPotJim@...>
        To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 10:09 PM
        Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] desperate for micro-adjustments & registration


        Hello everyone,

        Looking for a possible solution to the ever popular registration problem.

        Printing on a simple proof press, using a wood mounted magnesium plate
        locked
        in with high speed quoins, etc. No magnets or special bases at work here.

        How might it be possible, through building a special form or using hardware
        that I'm unaware of, to create a setup for making micro-adjustments to the
        position of the block? I have created a simple pin register bar that sits
        back on
        the bed (which is not moveable), for which I intend to precisely replicate
        the
        position of my paper (which will be punched). This is all in order to
        register a previously printed piece to the block.

        Of note: Due to the size of my blocks and the fact that im not swapping out
        chases, my form is *only* locked up against the side rails of my bed.

        Hopefully someone out there has gone down this slippery slope before, and
        can
        lend a hand and save me some time with a DIY idea or some other pearl of
        wisdom. I'm desperate, and hoping that there's a short term alternative to
        getting
        new plates and a magnetic base.

        Jim Harrison
        Gainesville, FL
      • Mats Broberg
        Dear Jim, What kind of proof press do you have? Usually, micro-registration is best carried out by adjusting the front gauges on the cylinder and the side
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 16, 2003
          Dear Jim,

          What kind of proof press do you have? Usually, micro-registration is
          best carried out by adjusting the front gauges on the cylinder and the
          side gauge on the feeder table.

          All the best,
          Mats Broberg

          Stockholm - Sweden



          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: InkPotJim@... [mailto:InkPotJim@...]
          > Sent: den 17 augusti 2003 04:09
          > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] desperate for micro-adjustments
          > & registration
          >
          >
          > Hello everyone,
          >
          > Looking for a possible solution to the ever popular
          > registration problem.
          >
          > Printing on a simple proof press, using a wood mounted
          > magnesium plate locked
          > in with high speed quoins, etc. No magnets or special bases
          > at work here.
          >
          > How might it be possible, through building a special form or
          > using hardware
          > that I'm unaware of, to create a setup for making
          > micro-adjustments to the
          > position of the block? I have created a simple pin register
          > bar that sits back on
          > the bed (which is not moveable), for which I intend to
          > precisely replicate the
          > position of my paper (which will be punched). This is all in order to
          > register a previously printed piece to the block.
          >
          > Of note: Due to the size of my blocks and the fact that im
          > not swapping out
          > chases, my form is *only* locked up against the side rails of my bed.
          >
          > Hopefully someone out there has gone down this slippery slope
          > before, and can
          > lend a hand and save me some time with a DIY idea or some
          > other pearl of
          > wisdom. I'm desperate, and hoping that there's a short term
          > alternative to getting
          > new plates and a magnetic base.
          >
          > Jim Harrison
          > Gainesville, FL
        • Gerald Lange
          Jim This is a simple proof press without gripper bar adjusters? Steel (quarter-point) or copper (half-point) or brass (full point) thins at all four opposing
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 16, 2003
            Jim

            This is a simple proof press without gripper bar adjusters?

            Steel (quarter-point) or copper (half-point) or brass (full point)
            thins at all four opposing corners of the block? Simplest way.

            Rouse used to make some quoins, very slim, look a bit like the one of
            those ships, the Merrimac or Monitor used in the Civil War. Can't
            remember which one... the one with the cylindrical turret. See these
            on eBay occasionally. These can be used to turn a block into position.
            Not much, but enough. Very handy on occasion, best on larger blocks.
            You use a pin bar to adjust them. I even use them with photopolymer
            bases. Those old spring quoins that bend one way or another under
            pressure (square key) work as well if you have enough room, but are a
            bit more intuitive.

            Gerald


            > Looking for a possible solution to the ever popular registration
            problem.
            >
            > Printing on a simple proof press, using a wood mounted magnesium
            plate locked
            > in with high speed quoins, etc. No magnets or special bases at work
            here.
            >
            > How might it be possible, through building a special form or using
            hardware
            > that I'm unaware of, to create a setup for making micro-adjustments
            to the
            > position of the block? I have created a simple pin register bar that
            sits back on
            > the bed (which is not moveable), for which I intend to precisely
            replicate the
            > position of my paper (which will be punched). This is all in order to
            > register a previously printed piece to the block.
            >
            > Of note: Due to the size of my blocks and the fact that im not
            swapping out
            > chases, my form is *only* locked up against the side rails of my bed.
            >
            > Hopefully someone out there has gone down this slippery slope
            before, and can
            > lend a hand and save me some time with a DIY idea or some other
            pearl of
            > wisdom. I'm desperate, and hoping that there's a short term
            alternative to getting
            > new plates and a magnetic base.
            >
            > Jim Harrison
            > Gainesville, FL
          • mike.jacobs
            Hi, The method I have used successfully for a long time is to mount the block in the chase using a quoin on each of the four sides. By loosening off one quion
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 17, 2003
              Hi,
              The method I have used successfully for a long time is to mount the block in the chase using a quoin on each of the four sides. By loosening off one quion and tightening the opposite, it is possible to move the block fractionally.
              This works with full size quoins and the narrower models, but there is also a special quoin to do this which is barely one em thick (wide).
              Mike
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: InkPotJim@...
              To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 3:09 AM
              Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] desperate for micro-adjustments & registration


              Hello everyone,

              Looking for a possible solution to the ever popular registration problem.

              Printing on a simple proof press, using a wood mounted magnesium plate locked
              in with high speed quoins, etc. No magnets or special bases at work here.

              How might it be possible, through building a special form or using hardware
              that I'm unaware of, to create a setup for making micro-adjustments to the
              position of the block? I have created a simple pin register bar that sits back on
              the bed (which is not moveable), for which I intend to precisely replicate the
              position of my paper (which will be punched). This is all in order to
              register a previously printed piece to the block.

              Of note: Due to the size of my blocks and the fact that im not swapping out
              chases, my form is *only* locked up against the side rails of my bed.

              Hopefully someone out there has gone down this slippery slope before, and can
              lend a hand and save me some time with a DIY idea or some other pearl of
              wisdom. I'm desperate, and hoping that there's a short term alternative to getting
              new plates and a magnetic base.

              Jim Harrison
              Gainesville, FL


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • InkPotJim@aol.com
              In a message dated 8/17/2003 2:46:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... Gerald, Yes, I m using a simple Nolan proofer with no gripper bar or anything. I started my
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 17, 2003
                In a message dated 8/17/2003 2:46:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                bieler@... writes:

                > This is a simple proof press without gripper bar adjusters?
                >
                Gerald,

                Yes, I'm using a simple Nolan proofer with no gripper bar or anything. I
                started my letterpress experiences hoping against hope that there was some kind of
                gripper bar I could retro fit to this press that would allow for
                micro-adjustments, but alas, there are none that i'm aware of.

                I've built a simple pin registration bar for which I can punch sheets and
                replicate their exact position on the bed, but that's about it. It still requires
                that I precisely adjust the block to be in the right place if I want any
                semblance of registration...

                I'll keep an eye out on eBay, and put in a question to NA Graphics about the
                special quoins. In the meantime, maybe I should order some thins as you
                suggest. Mike's suggstion of loosening and tightening opposing quoins sounds
                possible, and will be the next thing I try.

                Jim Harrison
                Gainesville, FL


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Mats Broberg
                ... Monitor! Designed & engineered by - pardon my pride - the Swede John Ericsson, born in Långbanshyttan, Färnebo socken, in the county of Värmland. This
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 17, 2003
                  > Rouse used to make some quoins, very slim, look a bit like
                  > the one of those ships, the Merrimac or Monitor used in the
                  > Civil War. Can't remember which one... the one with the
                  > cylindrical turret.

                  Monitor! Designed & engineered by - pardon my pride - the Swede John
                  Ericsson, born in Långbanshyttan, Färnebo socken, in the county of
                  Värmland.

                  This year it is 200 years since Mr. Ericsson was born and yesterday this
                  was celebrated by a battle between two scale models (1:4) of Merrimac
                  and Monitor in the middle of Stockholm. Quite beautifully made models,
                  and alot of impressive explosions and water cascades when Monitor hit
                  Merrimac - and vice versa, one should add.

                  All the best,
                  Mats Broberg

                  Stockholm - Sweden
                • Fritz Klinke
                  Jim--I ve been following this, but none of the register quoins are made or available. Only the hi-speed ones are still manufactured, but they don t really
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 17, 2003
                    Jim--I've been following this, but none of the register quoins are made or
                    available. Only the hi-speed ones are still manufactured, but they don't
                    really serve what you need. The one suggestion to add or delete small
                    amounts of furniture, even if it is card stock spacing, would seem to be the
                    ticket. Leads are 2 pts thick, and we sell 1 point steel or lead spacing,
                    but for most printing, 1 pt would seem to be more than adequate unless you
                    are doing precise color registration, and I'd suggest you won't be able to
                    obtain precise work on a Nolan or like press--it's just not built into that
                    simple and basic a mechanism.

                    The register quoins worked by having a set on each side of a form--loosen up
                    one side and tighten on the other, but as you describe your set up, you use
                    only side to side lockup, so front to back still has to be done by
                    adding/subtracting lockup material. In all my collection of letterpress,
                    which now spans 50 years, I've never picked up any of the register quoins,
                    but you may find some on ebay, or through ads in the Printer. Sorry I can't
                    be of greater assistance. Thanks,

                    Fritz Klinke, NA Graphics
                    1314 Greene Street, P.O. Box 467
                    Silverton, Colorado 81433 USA
                    970-387-0212, fax 970-387-0127
                    nagraph@...

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <InkPotJim@...>
                    To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 12:08 PM
                    Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: desperate for micro-adjustments &
                    registration


                    In a message dated 8/17/2003 2:46:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                    bieler@... writes:

                    > This is a simple proof press without gripper bar adjusters?
                    >
                    Gerald,

                    Yes, I'm using a simple Nolan proofer with no gripper bar or anything. I
                    started my letterpress experiences hoping against hope that there was some
                    kind of
                    gripper bar I could retro fit to this press that would allow for
                    micro-adjustments, but alas, there are none that i'm aware of.

                    I've built a simple pin registration bar for which I can punch sheets and
                    replicate their exact position on the bed, but that's about it. It still
                    requires
                    that I precisely adjust the block to be in the right place if I want any
                    semblance of registration...

                    I'll keep an eye out on eBay, and put in a question to NA Graphics about the
                    special quoins. In the meantime, maybe I should order some thins as you
                    suggest. Mike's suggstion of loosening and tightening opposing quoins sounds
                    possible, and will be the next thing I try.

                    Jim Harrison
                    Gainesville, FL


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    . To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                    PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    . Encountering problems? contact:
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                    . To unsubscribe:
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                  • InkPotJim@aol.com
                    In a message dated 8/17/2003 6:25:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Fritz, Yes, I agree -- luckily my registration issues aren t from one color to another in
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 17, 2003
                      In a message dated 8/17/2003 6:25:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                      nagraph@... writes:

                      > Leads are 2 pts thick, and we sell 1 point steel or lead spacing,
                      > but for most printing, 1 pt would seem to be more than adequate unless you
                      > are doing precise color registration, and I'd suggest you won't be able to
                      > obtain precise work on a Nolan or like press--it's just not built into that
                      > simple and basic a mechanism.

                      Fritz,

                      Yes, I agree -- luckily my registration issues aren't from one color to
                      another in sequence. I realized early on that the ol' Nolan was gonna get me great
                      1 color impressions but not much more. I'll simply be registering a keyline
                      impression on the letterpress to a preprinted color print, and want to reproduce
                      the results (and registration) with my homemade pin bar.

                      However, I am of the meticulous sort of "crazy designer", so maybe someday
                      after I've got my wits about me I'll get a 2 or 3 color pet project and go nuts
                      making it work... But I'm still wading in the kiddie pool for now and asking
                      all you experts for advice.

                      Using high speed quoins as I am gives me something akin to the "register"
                      quoins, where I can loosen and tighten alternately. Sounds like I need to get
                      some 1pt steel spacing and just put some mileage on the press perfecting the
                      technique.

                      Thanks to everyone for the push in the right direction.

                      Jim Harrison
                      Gainesville, FL


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • David Goodrich
                      Jim, I think we have discussed your Nolan before as I also have one I still use occasionally. You can t lock up front to back directly. You should get
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 18, 2003
                        Jim,
                        I think we have discussed your Nolan before as I also have one I still use
                        occasionally. You can't lock up front to back directly. You should get
                        yourself a large chase which just fits into the bed of the press. It can be
                        locked to the sides of the press, semi-permanently. You can then lock up
                        from all four directions. Forms have a tendency to slide around in a Nolan
                        so even when taking a galley proof I try to rig some sort of lock-up.
                        With your form properly locked up and using registration points you should
                        be able to get as good multicolor work as can be done on a handpress, which
                        is to say all printing up until about 1820. I don't think it would work for
                        color photographs, but it should be satisfactory for two-color initials or
                        borders or block prints. The biggest problem I have had with two-color
                        initials and borders is that the forms themselves don't lock up exactly
                        square or exactly the same size every time. I guess it comes from a slight
                        springiness or perhaps the wear and accumulated dirt on old type and
                        spacing. After playing with the quoins and using a square for a while they
                        can be made acceptable. Don't expect it to be perfect the first time.

                        David

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: InkPotJim@... [mailto:InkPotJim@...]
                        Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 2:09 PM
                        To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: desperate for micro-adjustments &
                        registration


                        In a message dated 8/17/2003 2:46:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                        bieler@... writes:

                        > This is a simple proof press without gripper bar adjusters?
                        >
                        Gerald,

                        Yes, I'm using a simple Nolan proofer with no gripper bar or anything. I
                        started my letterpress experiences hoping against hope that there was some
                        kind of
                        gripper bar I could retro fit to this press that would allow for
                        micro-adjustments, but alas, there are none that i'm aware of.

                        I've built a simple pin registration bar for which I can punch sheets and
                        replicate their exact position on the bed, but that's about it. It still
                        requires
                        that I precisely adjust the block to be in the right place if I want any
                        semblance of registration...

                        I'll keep an eye out on eBay, and put in a question to NA Graphics about the
                        special quoins. In the meantime, maybe I should order some thins as you
                        suggest. Mike's suggstion of loosening and tightening opposing quoins sounds
                        possible, and will be the next thing I try.

                        Jim Harrison
                        Gainesville, FL


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                        • To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                        PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                        • Encountering problems? contact:
                        PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                        • To unsubscribe:
                        PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • Charles Jones
                        Hello to all, I am trying to adjust the exposure/washout times for plates using nyloprint plates using a JustRite platemaker. I am losing the dots for I s and
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 18, 2003
                          Hello to all,
                          I am trying to adjust the exposure/washout times for plates using nyloprint
                          plates using a JustRite platemaker. I am losing the dots for I's and j's.
                          The typeface is Della Robbia, or "Cantoria" and the negatives are from a
                          service bureau, right reading, emu. Up. According to tests, and previous
                          experience, the time should be 2.5 min and the washout 4 min. This leaves
                          some polymer coating on the plate (metal and .037 thick, matt) Any
                          suggestions?
                          Charlie
                        • M a n i f e s t o P r e s s
                          I would say bump up the exposure time [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 18, 2003
                            I would say bump up the exposure time


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • typetom@aol.com
                            The Nolan proof press has four holes in the bed at the corners. These are for pins, or little metal posts, which can be used as end stops for long pieces of
                            Message 13 of 15 , Aug 18, 2003
                              The Nolan proof press has four holes in the bed at the corners. These are for
                              pins, or little metal posts, which can be used as end stops for long pieces
                              of furniture. Thus a form can be locked up on the bed without a chase.

                              On one such press, I also have seen a hinged end piece fastened into the bed
                              with quoins -- providing a hinge for a tympan (and registration gauge pins)
                              that works just like the tympan on a Washington press. I'm not sure how the
                              printer avoided double rolling to get the roller out of the way to open the
                              tympan! Maybe the hinged piece was set up far enough into the bed to allow it to
                              open with the roller at either end?

                              Most of these proof presses require a galley or a plate under the type for it
                              to be type-high, so there are a number of pieces in the system that might
                              allow undesired movement. Careful setup and adaptations should allow tight
                              registration work despite the lesser intentions of the press design.

                              I use bearers to control hand inking and to prevent slurs as the roller hits
                              the type, but I'm not trying for tight registration on my Nolan.

                              Tom Parson
                              Now It's Up To You Publications
                              157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
                              (303) 777-8951
                              http://members.aol.com/typetom
                            • typetom@aol.com
                              Hi Charlie, I d try extending the exposure time to 3 or 3 1/2 minutes. If you have good contact with the neg the added exposure should further harden the base
                              Message 14 of 15 , Aug 18, 2003
                                Hi Charlie,
                                I'd try extending the exposure time to 3 or 3 1/2 minutes. If you have good
                                contact with the neg the added exposure should further harden the base beneath
                                the image without expanding the image itself.
                                Tom

                                Tom Parson
                                Now It's Up To You Publications
                                157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
                                (303) 777-8951
                                http://members.aol.com/typetom
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