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Re: [PPLetterpress] desperate for micro-adjustments & registration

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  • InkPotJim@aol.com
    Hello everyone, Looking for a possible solution to the ever popular registration problem. Printing on a simple proof press, using a wood mounted magnesium
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 16, 2003
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      Hello everyone,

      Looking for a possible solution to the ever popular registration problem.

      Printing on a simple proof press, using a wood mounted magnesium plate locked
      in with high speed quoins, etc. No magnets or special bases at work here.

      How might it be possible, through building a special form or using hardware
      that I'm unaware of, to create a setup for making micro-adjustments to the
      position of the block? I have created a simple pin register bar that sits back on
      the bed (which is not moveable), for which I intend to precisely replicate the
      position of my paper (which will be punched). This is all in order to
      register a previously printed piece to the block.

      Of note: Due to the size of my blocks and the fact that im not swapping out
      chases, my form is *only* locked up against the side rails of my bed.

      Hopefully someone out there has gone down this slippery slope before, and can
      lend a hand and save me some time with a DIY idea or some other pearl of
      wisdom. I'm desperate, and hoping that there's a short term alternative to getting
      new plates and a magnetic base.

      Jim Harrison
      Gainesville, FL


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • typetom@aol.com
      Hi Jim, What s wrong with unlocking the block and adding thin strips of paper or cardstock beside it to move it slightly before re-locking? That would be the
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 16, 2003
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        Hi Jim,
        What's wrong with unlocking the block and adding thin strips of paper or
        cardstock beside it to move it slightly before re-locking? That would be the
        traditional method. Or am I missing something that makes it more complicated?
        Tom

        Tom Parson
        Now It's Up To You Publications
        157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
        (303) 777-8951
        http://members.aol.com/typetom
      • Phillip Driscoll
        There used to be (perhaps still available from NA Graphics) special adjustment quoins which were threaded. When the form was on the press, you could turn the
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 16, 2003
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          There used to be (perhaps still available from NA Graphics) special
          adjustment quoins which were threaded. When the form was on the
          press, you could turn the screw in these with a piece of wire to move
          the form just a very slight amount.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <InkPotJim@...>
          To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 10:09 PM
          Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] desperate for micro-adjustments & registration


          Hello everyone,

          Looking for a possible solution to the ever popular registration problem.

          Printing on a simple proof press, using a wood mounted magnesium plate
          locked
          in with high speed quoins, etc. No magnets or special bases at work here.

          How might it be possible, through building a special form or using hardware
          that I'm unaware of, to create a setup for making micro-adjustments to the
          position of the block? I have created a simple pin register bar that sits
          back on
          the bed (which is not moveable), for which I intend to precisely replicate
          the
          position of my paper (which will be punched). This is all in order to
          register a previously printed piece to the block.

          Of note: Due to the size of my blocks and the fact that im not swapping out
          chases, my form is *only* locked up against the side rails of my bed.

          Hopefully someone out there has gone down this slippery slope before, and
          can
          lend a hand and save me some time with a DIY idea or some other pearl of
          wisdom. I'm desperate, and hoping that there's a short term alternative to
          getting
          new plates and a magnetic base.

          Jim Harrison
          Gainesville, FL
        • Mats Broberg
          Dear Jim, What kind of proof press do you have? Usually, micro-registration is best carried out by adjusting the front gauges on the cylinder and the side
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 16, 2003
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            Dear Jim,

            What kind of proof press do you have? Usually, micro-registration is
            best carried out by adjusting the front gauges on the cylinder and the
            side gauge on the feeder table.

            All the best,
            Mats Broberg

            Stockholm - Sweden



            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: InkPotJim@... [mailto:InkPotJim@...]
            > Sent: den 17 augusti 2003 04:09
            > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] desperate for micro-adjustments
            > & registration
            >
            >
            > Hello everyone,
            >
            > Looking for a possible solution to the ever popular
            > registration problem.
            >
            > Printing on a simple proof press, using a wood mounted
            > magnesium plate locked
            > in with high speed quoins, etc. No magnets or special bases
            > at work here.
            >
            > How might it be possible, through building a special form or
            > using hardware
            > that I'm unaware of, to create a setup for making
            > micro-adjustments to the
            > position of the block? I have created a simple pin register
            > bar that sits back on
            > the bed (which is not moveable), for which I intend to
            > precisely replicate the
            > position of my paper (which will be punched). This is all in order to
            > register a previously printed piece to the block.
            >
            > Of note: Due to the size of my blocks and the fact that im
            > not swapping out
            > chases, my form is *only* locked up against the side rails of my bed.
            >
            > Hopefully someone out there has gone down this slippery slope
            > before, and can
            > lend a hand and save me some time with a DIY idea or some
            > other pearl of
            > wisdom. I'm desperate, and hoping that there's a short term
            > alternative to getting
            > new plates and a magnetic base.
            >
            > Jim Harrison
            > Gainesville, FL
          • Gerald Lange
            Jim This is a simple proof press without gripper bar adjusters? Steel (quarter-point) or copper (half-point) or brass (full point) thins at all four opposing
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 16, 2003
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              Jim

              This is a simple proof press without gripper bar adjusters?

              Steel (quarter-point) or copper (half-point) or brass (full point)
              thins at all four opposing corners of the block? Simplest way.

              Rouse used to make some quoins, very slim, look a bit like the one of
              those ships, the Merrimac or Monitor used in the Civil War. Can't
              remember which one... the one with the cylindrical turret. See these
              on eBay occasionally. These can be used to turn a block into position.
              Not much, but enough. Very handy on occasion, best on larger blocks.
              You use a pin bar to adjust them. I even use them with photopolymer
              bases. Those old spring quoins that bend one way or another under
              pressure (square key) work as well if you have enough room, but are a
              bit more intuitive.

              Gerald


              > Looking for a possible solution to the ever popular registration
              problem.
              >
              > Printing on a simple proof press, using a wood mounted magnesium
              plate locked
              > in with high speed quoins, etc. No magnets or special bases at work
              here.
              >
              > How might it be possible, through building a special form or using
              hardware
              > that I'm unaware of, to create a setup for making micro-adjustments
              to the
              > position of the block? I have created a simple pin register bar that
              sits back on
              > the bed (which is not moveable), for which I intend to precisely
              replicate the
              > position of my paper (which will be punched). This is all in order to
              > register a previously printed piece to the block.
              >
              > Of note: Due to the size of my blocks and the fact that im not
              swapping out
              > chases, my form is *only* locked up against the side rails of my bed.
              >
              > Hopefully someone out there has gone down this slippery slope
              before, and can
              > lend a hand and save me some time with a DIY idea or some other
              pearl of
              > wisdom. I'm desperate, and hoping that there's a short term
              alternative to getting
              > new plates and a magnetic base.
              >
              > Jim Harrison
              > Gainesville, FL
            • mike.jacobs
              Hi, The method I have used successfully for a long time is to mount the block in the chase using a quoin on each of the four sides. By loosening off one quion
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 17, 2003
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                Hi,
                The method I have used successfully for a long time is to mount the block in the chase using a quoin on each of the four sides. By loosening off one quion and tightening the opposite, it is possible to move the block fractionally.
                This works with full size quoins and the narrower models, but there is also a special quoin to do this which is barely one em thick (wide).
                Mike
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: InkPotJim@...
                To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 3:09 AM
                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] desperate for micro-adjustments & registration


                Hello everyone,

                Looking for a possible solution to the ever popular registration problem.

                Printing on a simple proof press, using a wood mounted magnesium plate locked
                in with high speed quoins, etc. No magnets or special bases at work here.

                How might it be possible, through building a special form or using hardware
                that I'm unaware of, to create a setup for making micro-adjustments to the
                position of the block? I have created a simple pin register bar that sits back on
                the bed (which is not moveable), for which I intend to precisely replicate the
                position of my paper (which will be punched). This is all in order to
                register a previously printed piece to the block.

                Of note: Due to the size of my blocks and the fact that im not swapping out
                chases, my form is *only* locked up against the side rails of my bed.

                Hopefully someone out there has gone down this slippery slope before, and can
                lend a hand and save me some time with a DIY idea or some other pearl of
                wisdom. I'm desperate, and hoping that there's a short term alternative to getting
                new plates and a magnetic base.

                Jim Harrison
                Gainesville, FL


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • InkPotJim@aol.com
                In a message dated 8/17/2003 2:46:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... Gerald, Yes, I m using a simple Nolan proofer with no gripper bar or anything. I started my
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 17, 2003
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                  In a message dated 8/17/2003 2:46:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                  bieler@... writes:

                  > This is a simple proof press without gripper bar adjusters?
                  >
                  Gerald,

                  Yes, I'm using a simple Nolan proofer with no gripper bar or anything. I
                  started my letterpress experiences hoping against hope that there was some kind of
                  gripper bar I could retro fit to this press that would allow for
                  micro-adjustments, but alas, there are none that i'm aware of.

                  I've built a simple pin registration bar for which I can punch sheets and
                  replicate their exact position on the bed, but that's about it. It still requires
                  that I precisely adjust the block to be in the right place if I want any
                  semblance of registration...

                  I'll keep an eye out on eBay, and put in a question to NA Graphics about the
                  special quoins. In the meantime, maybe I should order some thins as you
                  suggest. Mike's suggstion of loosening and tightening opposing quoins sounds
                  possible, and will be the next thing I try.

                  Jim Harrison
                  Gainesville, FL


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mats Broberg
                  ... Monitor! Designed & engineered by - pardon my pride - the Swede John Ericsson, born in Långbanshyttan, Färnebo socken, in the county of Värmland. This
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 17, 2003
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                    > Rouse used to make some quoins, very slim, look a bit like
                    > the one of those ships, the Merrimac or Monitor used in the
                    > Civil War. Can't remember which one... the one with the
                    > cylindrical turret.

                    Monitor! Designed & engineered by - pardon my pride - the Swede John
                    Ericsson, born in Långbanshyttan, Färnebo socken, in the county of
                    Värmland.

                    This year it is 200 years since Mr. Ericsson was born and yesterday this
                    was celebrated by a battle between two scale models (1:4) of Merrimac
                    and Monitor in the middle of Stockholm. Quite beautifully made models,
                    and alot of impressive explosions and water cascades when Monitor hit
                    Merrimac - and vice versa, one should add.

                    All the best,
                    Mats Broberg

                    Stockholm - Sweden
                  • Fritz Klinke
                    Jim--I ve been following this, but none of the register quoins are made or available. Only the hi-speed ones are still manufactured, but they don t really
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 17, 2003
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                      Jim--I've been following this, but none of the register quoins are made or
                      available. Only the hi-speed ones are still manufactured, but they don't
                      really serve what you need. The one suggestion to add or delete small
                      amounts of furniture, even if it is card stock spacing, would seem to be the
                      ticket. Leads are 2 pts thick, and we sell 1 point steel or lead spacing,
                      but for most printing, 1 pt would seem to be more than adequate unless you
                      are doing precise color registration, and I'd suggest you won't be able to
                      obtain precise work on a Nolan or like press--it's just not built into that
                      simple and basic a mechanism.

                      The register quoins worked by having a set on each side of a form--loosen up
                      one side and tighten on the other, but as you describe your set up, you use
                      only side to side lockup, so front to back still has to be done by
                      adding/subtracting lockup material. In all my collection of letterpress,
                      which now spans 50 years, I've never picked up any of the register quoins,
                      but you may find some on ebay, or through ads in the Printer. Sorry I can't
                      be of greater assistance. Thanks,

                      Fritz Klinke, NA Graphics
                      1314 Greene Street, P.O. Box 467
                      Silverton, Colorado 81433 USA
                      970-387-0212, fax 970-387-0127
                      nagraph@...

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <InkPotJim@...>
                      To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 12:08 PM
                      Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: desperate for micro-adjustments &
                      registration


                      In a message dated 8/17/2003 2:46:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                      bieler@... writes:

                      > This is a simple proof press without gripper bar adjusters?
                      >
                      Gerald,

                      Yes, I'm using a simple Nolan proofer with no gripper bar or anything. I
                      started my letterpress experiences hoping against hope that there was some
                      kind of
                      gripper bar I could retro fit to this press that would allow for
                      micro-adjustments, but alas, there are none that i'm aware of.

                      I've built a simple pin registration bar for which I can punch sheets and
                      replicate their exact position on the bed, but that's about it. It still
                      requires
                      that I precisely adjust the block to be in the right place if I want any
                      semblance of registration...

                      I'll keep an eye out on eBay, and put in a question to NA Graphics about the
                      special quoins. In the meantime, maybe I should order some thins as you
                      suggest. Mike's suggstion of loosening and tightening opposing quoins sounds
                      possible, and will be the next thing I try.

                      Jim Harrison
                      Gainesville, FL


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      . To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                      PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      . Encountering problems? contact:
                      PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
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                    • InkPotJim@aol.com
                      In a message dated 8/17/2003 6:25:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Fritz, Yes, I agree -- luckily my registration issues aren t from one color to another in
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 17, 2003
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                        In a message dated 8/17/2003 6:25:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                        nagraph@... writes:

                        > Leads are 2 pts thick, and we sell 1 point steel or lead spacing,
                        > but for most printing, 1 pt would seem to be more than adequate unless you
                        > are doing precise color registration, and I'd suggest you won't be able to
                        > obtain precise work on a Nolan or like press--it's just not built into that
                        > simple and basic a mechanism.

                        Fritz,

                        Yes, I agree -- luckily my registration issues aren't from one color to
                        another in sequence. I realized early on that the ol' Nolan was gonna get me great
                        1 color impressions but not much more. I'll simply be registering a keyline
                        impression on the letterpress to a preprinted color print, and want to reproduce
                        the results (and registration) with my homemade pin bar.

                        However, I am of the meticulous sort of "crazy designer", so maybe someday
                        after I've got my wits about me I'll get a 2 or 3 color pet project and go nuts
                        making it work... But I'm still wading in the kiddie pool for now and asking
                        all you experts for advice.

                        Using high speed quoins as I am gives me something akin to the "register"
                        quoins, where I can loosen and tighten alternately. Sounds like I need to get
                        some 1pt steel spacing and just put some mileage on the press perfecting the
                        technique.

                        Thanks to everyone for the push in the right direction.

                        Jim Harrison
                        Gainesville, FL


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • David Goodrich
                        Jim, I think we have discussed your Nolan before as I also have one I still use occasionally. You can t lock up front to back directly. You should get
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 18, 2003
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                          Jim,
                          I think we have discussed your Nolan before as I also have one I still use
                          occasionally. You can't lock up front to back directly. You should get
                          yourself a large chase which just fits into the bed of the press. It can be
                          locked to the sides of the press, semi-permanently. You can then lock up
                          from all four directions. Forms have a tendency to slide around in a Nolan
                          so even when taking a galley proof I try to rig some sort of lock-up.
                          With your form properly locked up and using registration points you should
                          be able to get as good multicolor work as can be done on a handpress, which
                          is to say all printing up until about 1820. I don't think it would work for
                          color photographs, but it should be satisfactory for two-color initials or
                          borders or block prints. The biggest problem I have had with two-color
                          initials and borders is that the forms themselves don't lock up exactly
                          square or exactly the same size every time. I guess it comes from a slight
                          springiness or perhaps the wear and accumulated dirt on old type and
                          spacing. After playing with the quoins and using a square for a while they
                          can be made acceptable. Don't expect it to be perfect the first time.

                          David

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: InkPotJim@... [mailto:InkPotJim@...]
                          Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 2:09 PM
                          To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: desperate for micro-adjustments &
                          registration


                          In a message dated 8/17/2003 2:46:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                          bieler@... writes:

                          > This is a simple proof press without gripper bar adjusters?
                          >
                          Gerald,

                          Yes, I'm using a simple Nolan proofer with no gripper bar or anything. I
                          started my letterpress experiences hoping against hope that there was some
                          kind of
                          gripper bar I could retro fit to this press that would allow for
                          micro-adjustments, but alas, there are none that i'm aware of.

                          I've built a simple pin registration bar for which I can punch sheets and
                          replicate their exact position on the bed, but that's about it. It still
                          requires
                          that I precisely adjust the block to be in the right place if I want any
                          semblance of registration...

                          I'll keep an eye out on eBay, and put in a question to NA Graphics about the
                          special quoins. In the meantime, maybe I should order some thins as you
                          suggest. Mike's suggstion of loosening and tightening opposing quoins sounds
                          possible, and will be the next thing I try.

                          Jim Harrison
                          Gainesville, FL


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                          • To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                          PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                          • Encountering problems? contact:
                          PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                          • To unsubscribe:
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                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        • Charles Jones
                          Hello to all, I am trying to adjust the exposure/washout times for plates using nyloprint plates using a JustRite platemaker. I am losing the dots for I s and
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 18, 2003
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                            Hello to all,
                            I am trying to adjust the exposure/washout times for plates using nyloprint
                            plates using a JustRite platemaker. I am losing the dots for I's and j's.
                            The typeface is Della Robbia, or "Cantoria" and the negatives are from a
                            service bureau, right reading, emu. Up. According to tests, and previous
                            experience, the time should be 2.5 min and the washout 4 min. This leaves
                            some polymer coating on the plate (metal and .037 thick, matt) Any
                            suggestions?
                            Charlie
                          • M a n i f e s t o P r e s s
                            I would say bump up the exposure time [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Message 13 of 15 , Aug 18, 2003
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                              I would say bump up the exposure time


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • typetom@aol.com
                              The Nolan proof press has four holes in the bed at the corners. These are for pins, or little metal posts, which can be used as end stops for long pieces of
                              Message 14 of 15 , Aug 18, 2003
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                                The Nolan proof press has four holes in the bed at the corners. These are for
                                pins, or little metal posts, which can be used as end stops for long pieces
                                of furniture. Thus a form can be locked up on the bed without a chase.

                                On one such press, I also have seen a hinged end piece fastened into the bed
                                with quoins -- providing a hinge for a tympan (and registration gauge pins)
                                that works just like the tympan on a Washington press. I'm not sure how the
                                printer avoided double rolling to get the roller out of the way to open the
                                tympan! Maybe the hinged piece was set up far enough into the bed to allow it to
                                open with the roller at either end?

                                Most of these proof presses require a galley or a plate under the type for it
                                to be type-high, so there are a number of pieces in the system that might
                                allow undesired movement. Careful setup and adaptations should allow tight
                                registration work despite the lesser intentions of the press design.

                                I use bearers to control hand inking and to prevent slurs as the roller hits
                                the type, but I'm not trying for tight registration on my Nolan.

                                Tom Parson
                                Now It's Up To You Publications
                                157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
                                (303) 777-8951
                                http://members.aol.com/typetom
                              • typetom@aol.com
                                Hi Charlie, I d try extending the exposure time to 3 or 3 1/2 minutes. If you have good contact with the neg the added exposure should further harden the base
                                Message 15 of 15 , Aug 18, 2003
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                                  Hi Charlie,
                                  I'd try extending the exposure time to 3 or 3 1/2 minutes. If you have good
                                  contact with the neg the added exposure should further harden the base beneath
                                  the image without expanding the image itself.
                                  Tom

                                  Tom Parson
                                  Now It's Up To You Publications
                                  157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
                                  (303) 777-8951
                                  http://members.aol.com/typetom
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