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Re: [PPLetterpress] offset printing a letterpress design

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  • M a n i f e s t o P r e s s
    My advice would be to avoid offset at all costs. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 16, 2003
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      My advice would be to avoid offset at all costs.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ed Inman
      What might make a better art project would be to create a digital design, find a master woodcarver to replicate the design in wood type, then print 1000 of
      Message 2 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
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        What might make a better art project would be to create a digital design,
        find a master woodcarver to replicate the design in wood type, then print
        1000 of them on a C&P.

        well, you did (after all) ask for "all comments"

        cheers & good luck,
        Ed

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "carey johnson" <careysuejohnson@...>
        To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 5:46 PM
        Subject: [PPLetterpress] offset printing a letterpress design


        I have plans to offset print a letterpress design done with wood
        type. We'll print it it on a vandercook, then scan the art to create
        films. Does anyone have any cautionary advice for the process? Just
        wondering...

        All comments welcome.

        Thanks!
        Carey Johnson








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      • InkPotJim@aol.com
        In a message dated 7/17/2003 4:04:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... Carey, As someone with extensive offset experience and only a letterpress noob, let me give
        Message 3 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
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          In a message dated 7/17/2003 4:04:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
          edinman@... writes:

          > I have plans to offset print a letterpress design done with wood
          > type. We'll print it it on a vandercook, then scan the art to create
          > films. Does anyone have any cautionary advice for the process? Just
          > wondering...
          >

          Carey,

          As someone with extensive offset experience and only a letterpress noob, let
          me give you the only advice that matters:

          Don't expect a scan of a letterpress print to live up to your expectations on
          an offset press.

          It's just not going to happen unless you spend a great deal of effort to
          print a very high line screen, and spring for professional photography of the
          print instead of a straight scan. Slapping a letterpress print on a scanner might
          be ok, but youre going to lose alot of the tactile dimensionality of the print
          due to the uniformity of light that scanners use. If the budget affords it,
          get a pro to light the print in a studio environment (thus emphasizing any
          embossment or textures that the letterpress process might have created) and shoot
          transparencies that then get scanned.

          Of course I live in a world of higher budget stuff, corporate budgets, etc.,
          and this advice might be wholly unpractical for you. Certainly direct scanning
          of a print will work, and look good if your scanner is top notch. Some
          digital tweaking might be necessary after the fact. Just don't expect a dead-on
          perfect reproduction and keep your expectations realisitc.

          Good luck!

          Jim Harrison
          DECA Design
          Gainesville. Florida


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mats Broberg
          ... Carey, Jim makes good points about the problem involved in reproducing a letterpress printed item in offset. If you aim for expressing some of the tactile
          Message 4 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
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            > I have plans to offset print a letterpress design done with wood
            > type. We'll print it it on a vandercook, then scan the art to create
            > films. Does anyone have any cautionary advice for the process? Just
            > wondering...
            >
            > All comments welcome.
            >
            > Thanks!
            > Carey Johnson

            Carey,

            Jim makes good points about the problem involved in reproducing a
            letterpress printed item in offset.

            If you aim for expressing some of the tactile quality of the item, the
            way to go is probably to work with a professional photographer and spend
            a few hours in tweaking studio lighting. I recall a project a few years
            ago when I worked with a photographer to get a good image of a piece of
            watercolor artwork. At first we tried a traditional reprographic setup
            of the lights, merely to get a starting point, and the result was not
            impressive. We had to spend alot of time working with different angles
            and different types of lightsources to capture some of the
            three-dimensional qualities of the watercolor. If the goal is a mere
            facsimile, then it's another matter and a traditional reprographic setup
            of lighting may work.

            Your budget may or may not make it possible to work with a photographer,
            and if it doesn't, you can scan the item on a scanner. However, to get
            as good a result as possible you may prefer to have it scanned on a drum
            scanner at a commercial process engraving / prepress company. In the
            specs, many consumer-grade and semi-professional scanners compare well
            with high-end equipment, but there are more to it than color depth and
            resolution. Many times a skilled operator and an old Crosfield Magnascan
            (which took up half a room) creates results that, still, can be
            absolutely outstanding.

            When the time comes to the offset printing of the scan, you may want to
            contact a printing office who works with waterless offset, or FM screens
            / hybrid screens. Waterless offset makes it possible to reproduce your
            image using a finer screen, and FM screens (frequency modulated) and
            hybrid screens are methods to screen your image that have some
            advantages over traditional AM screens (amplitude modulated).

            Good luck and don't hesitate to drop me a line if you have more
            questions.

            Best regards,
            Mats Broberg

            Stockholm - Sweden
          • eroustom
            I m curiouse if this had to be done on the cheap, with a straight desktop scan... I ve got some art school printmaking ideas (as in no budget whatsoever) to
            Message 5 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
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              I'm curiouse if this had to be done on the cheap, with a straight desktop scan... I've got some art school printmaking ideas (as in no
              budget whatsoever) to lend on this question:
              My first suggestion would be to avoid the dot. Don't produce a half tone, but after you edit your (high res. grayscale) scan,
              produce line art (bitmap) - if you get it right, the only thing missing will be the impression. Second consider overprinting different
              proofs (with different densities of coverage) thereby producing a duotone, and adding some depth and complexity to the
              ink/color that is often missing from offset.

              Or find someone with a cylinder press to run the job for real (if I were to do it, I'd make a plate from a scan anyway - I wouldn't
              want to take a chance with clunky old wood type surviving 1000 impressions without the lock-up exploding).

              Good luck.

              Elias Roustom

              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Mats Broberg" <mats.broberg@a...> wrote:
              > > I have plans to offset print a letterpress design done with wood
              > > type. We'll print it it on a vandercook, then scan the art to create
              > > films. Does anyone have any cautionary advice for the process? Just
              > > wondering...
              > >
              > > All comments welcome.
              > >
              > > Thanks!
              > > Carey Johnson
              >
              > Carey,
              >
              > Jim makes good points about the problem involved in reproducing a
              > letterpress printed item in offset.
              >
              > If you aim for expressing some of the tactile quality of the item, the
              > way to go is probably to work with a professional photographer and spend
              > a few hours in tweaking studio lighting. I recall a project a few years
              > ago when I worked with a photographer to get a good image of a piece of
              > watercolor artwork. At first we tried a traditional reprographic setup
              > of the lights, merely to get a starting point, and the result was not
              > impressive. We had to spend alot of time working with different angles
              > and different types of lightsources to capture some of the
              > three-dimensional qualities of the watercolor. If the goal is a mere
              > facsimile, then it's another matter and a traditional reprographic setup
              > of lighting may work.
              >
              > Your budget may or may not make it possible to work with a photographer,
              > and if it doesn't, you can scan the item on a scanner. However, to get
              > as good a result as possible you may prefer to have it scanned on a drum
              > scanner at a commercial process engraving / prepress company. In the
              > specs, many consumer-grade and semi-professional scanners compare well
              > with high-end equipment, but there are more to it than color depth and
              > resolution. Many times a skilled operator and an old Crosfield Magnascan
              > (which took up half a room) creates results that, still, can be
              > absolutely outstanding.
              >
              > When the time comes to the offset printing of the scan, you may want to
              > contact a printing office who works with waterless offset, or FM screens
              > / hybrid screens. Waterless offset makes it possible to reproduce your
              > image using a finer screen, and FM screens (frequency modulated) and
              > hybrid screens are methods to screen your image that have some
              > advantages over traditional AM screens (amplitude modulated).
              >
              > Good luck and don't hesitate to drop me a line if you have more
              > questions.
              >
              > Best regards,
              > Mats Broberg
              >
              > Stockholm - S
            • Casey McGarr
              I did a poster at Hatch Show Print and some tin designs and the one thing we did for the poster was printing each color separate and scan those gray scale in
              Message 6 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
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                I did a poster at Hatch Show Print and some tin designs and the one thing we
                did for the poster was printing each color separate and scan those gray
                scale in to the computer. Then in Photoshop save each file as tiff, then
                bring the files into Quark Express and coloring the images there. The
                transparent inks used in offset gave the same overprint impression as
                letterpress printing plus you have more control. The only thing it didn't
                have was the tactile feel but it was a great look.

                My 2 cents,

                ::
                Casey McGarr
                McGarr Creative
                http://www.mcgarrcreative.com/
              • carey johnson
                absolutely. i agree. however, this is constrained by the production limitations set by an outside cd label, and i have the sense that we don t have much of a
                Message 7 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
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                  absolutely. i agree. however, this is constrained by the production
                  limitations set by an outside cd label, and i have the sense that we
                  don't have much of a choice over how it will be printed,
                  unfortunately.


                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Inman" <edinman@e...> wrote:
                  > What might make a better art project would be to create a digital
                  design,
                  > find a master woodcarver to replicate the design in wood type, then
                  print
                  > 1000 of them on a C&P.
                  >
                  > well, you did (after all) ask for "all comments"
                  >
                  > cheers & good luck,
                  > Ed
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "carey johnson" <careysuejohnson@y...>
                  > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 5:46 PM
                  > Subject: [PPLetterpress] offset printing a letterpress design
                  >
                  >
                  > I have plans to offset print a letterpress design done with wood
                  > type. We'll print it it on a vandercook, then scan the art to
                  create
                  > films. Does anyone have any cautionary advice for the process? Just
                  > wondering...
                  >
                  > All comments welcome.
                  >
                  > Thanks!
                  > Carey Johnson
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > . To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                  > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  > . Encountering problems? contact:
                  > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                  > . To unsubscribe:
                  > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • carey johnson
                  yes. good advice. if only it were do-able.
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
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                    yes. good advice. if only it were do-able.


                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, M a n i f e s t o P r e s s
                    <bryan@m...> wrote:
                    > My advice would be to avoid offset at all costs.
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • carey johnson
                    Jim Thanks for the expectations mgmt. & excellent tip on the photography. I really hadn t considered that I might need to have it photo d and *then* scan a
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
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                      Jim

                      Thanks for the expectations mgmt. & excellent tip on the photography.
                      I really hadn't considered that I might need to have it photo'd and
                      *then* scan a transparency. I was thinking it would need to be a drum
                      scan, but had imagined I'd do it directly.

                      hmmm...

                      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, InkPotJim@a... wrote:
                      > In a message dated 7/17/2003 4:04:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                      > edinman@e... writes:
                      >
                      > > I have plans to offset print a letterpress design done with wood
                      > > type. We'll print it it on a vandercook, then scan the art to
                      create
                      > > films. Does anyone have any cautionary advice for the process?
                      Just
                      > > wondering...
                      > >
                      >
                      > Carey,
                      >
                      > As someone with extensive offset experience and only a letterpress
                      noob, let
                      > me give you the only advice that matters:
                      >
                      > Don't expect a scan of a letterpress print to live up to your
                      expectations on
                      > an offset press.
                      >
                      > It's just not going to happen unless you spend a great deal of
                      effort to
                      > print a very high line screen, and spring for professional
                      photography of the
                      > print instead of a straight scan. Slapping a letterpress print on a
                      scanner might
                      > be ok, but youre going to lose alot of the tactile dimensionality
                      of the print
                      > due to the uniformity of light that scanners use. If the budget
                      affords it,
                      > get a pro to light the print in a studio environment (thus
                      emphasizing any
                      > embossment or textures that the letterpress process might have
                      created) and shoot
                      > transparencies that then get scanned.
                      >
                      > Of course I live in a world of higher budget stuff, corporate
                      budgets, etc.,
                      > and this advice might be wholly unpractical for you. Certainly
                      direct scanning
                      > of a print will work, and look good if your scanner is top notch.
                      Some
                      > digital tweaking might be necessary after the fact. Just don't
                      expect a dead-on
                      > perfect reproduction and keep your expectations realisitc.
                      >
                      > Good luck!
                      >
                      > Jim Harrison
                      > DECA Design
                      > Gainesville. Florida
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • carey johnson
                      Hej Mats, Tack! Especially for the tip about going with waterless offset and FM screens. I ll try to find out what printer they plan to use. carey ... create
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
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                        Hej Mats,

                        Tack! Especially for the tip about going with waterless offset and
                        FM screens. I'll try to find out what printer they plan to use.


                        carey

                        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Mats Broberg"
                        <mats.broberg@a...> wrote:
                        > > I have plans to offset print a letterpress design done with wood
                        > > type. We'll print it it on a vandercook, then scan the art to
                        create
                        > > films. Does anyone have any cautionary advice for the process?
                        Just
                        > > wondering...
                        > >
                        > > All comments welcome.
                        > >
                        > > Thanks!
                        > > Carey Johnson
                        >
                        > Carey,
                        >
                        > Jim makes good points about the problem involved in reproducing a
                        > letterpress printed item in offset.
                        >
                        > If you aim for expressing some of the tactile quality of the item,
                        the
                        > way to go is probably to work with a professional photographer and
                        spend
                        > a few hours in tweaking studio lighting. I recall a project a few
                        years
                        > ago when I worked with a photographer to get a good image of a
                        piece of
                        > watercolor artwork. At first we tried a traditional reprographic
                        setup
                        > of the lights, merely to get a starting point, and the result was
                        not
                        > impressive. We had to spend alot of time working with different
                        angles
                        > and different types of lightsources to capture some of the
                        > three-dimensional qualities of the watercolor. If the goal is a mere
                        > facsimile, then it's another matter and a traditional reprographic
                        setup
                        > of lighting may work.
                        >
                        > Your budget may or may not make it possible to work with a
                        photographer,
                        > and if it doesn't, you can scan the item on a scanner. However, to
                        get
                        > as good a result as possible you may prefer to have it scanned on a
                        drum
                        > scanner at a commercial process engraving / prepress company. In the
                        > specs, many consumer-grade and semi-professional scanners compare
                        well
                        > with high-end equipment, but there are more to it than color depth
                        and
                        > resolution. Many times a skilled operator and an old Crosfield
                        Magnascan
                        > (which took up half a room) creates results that, still, can be
                        > absolutely outstanding.
                        >
                        > When the time comes to the offset printing of the scan, you may
                        want to
                        > contact a printing office who works with waterless offset, or FM
                        screens
                        > / hybrid screens. Waterless offset makes it possible to reproduce
                        your
                        > image using a finer screen, and FM screens (frequency modulated) and
                        > hybrid screens are methods to screen your image that have some
                        > advantages over traditional AM screens (amplitude modulated).
                        >
                        > Good luck and don't hesitate to drop me a line if you have more
                        > questions.
                        >
                        > Best regards,
                        > Mats Broberg
                        >
                        > Stockholm - Sweden
                      • cmcgarr1957
                        I did a poster at Hatch Show Print and some tin designs and the one thing we did for the poster was printing each color separate and scan those gray scale in
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I did a poster at Hatch Show Print and some tin designs and the one thing we
                          did for the poster was printing each color separate and scan those gray scale
                          in to the computer. Then in Photoshop save each file as tiff, then bring the files
                          into Quark Express and coloring the images there. The transparent inks used
                          in offset gave the same overprint impression as letterpress printing plus you
                          have more control. The only thing it didn't have was the tactile feel but it was a
                          great look.

                          My 2 cents,

                          ::
                          Casey McGarr
                          McGarr Creative
                          http://www.mcgarrcreative.com/


                          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "carey johnson" <
                          careysuejohnson@y...> wrote:
                          > Hej Mats,
                          >
                          > Tack! Especially for the tip about going with waterless offset and
                          > FM screens. I'll try to find out what printer they plan to use.
                          >
                          >
                          > carey
                          >
                          > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Mats Broberg"
                          > <mats.broberg@a...> wrote:
                          > > > I have plans to offset print a letterpress design done with wood
                          > > > type. We'll print it it on a vandercook, then scan the art to
                          > create
                          > > > films. Does anyone have any cautionary advice for the process?
                          > Just
                          > > > wondering...
                          > > >
                          > > > All comments welcome.
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks!
                          > > > Carey Johnson
                          > >
                          > > Carey,
                          > >
                          > > Jim makes good points about the problem involved in reproducing a
                          > > letterpress printed item in offset.
                          > >
                          > > If you aim for expressing some of the tactile quality of the item,
                          > the
                          > > way to go is probably to work with a professional photographer and
                          > spend
                          > > a few hours in tweaking studio lighting. I recall a project a few
                          > years
                          > > ago when I worked with a photographer to get a good image of a
                          > piece of
                          > > watercolor artwork. At first we tried a traditional reprographic
                          > setup
                          > > of the lights, merely to get a starting point, and the result was
                          > not
                          > > impressive. We had to spend alot of time working with different
                          > angles
                          > > and different types of lightsources to capture some of the
                          > > three-dimensional qualities of the watercolor. If the goal is a mere
                          > > facsimile, then it's another matter and a traditional reprographic
                          > setup
                          > > of lighting may work.
                          > >
                          > > Your budget may or may not make it possible to work with a
                          > photographer,
                          > > and if it doesn't, you can scan the item on a scanner. However, to
                          > get
                          > > as good a result as possible you may prefer to have it scanned on a
                          > drum
                          > > scanner at a commercial process engraving / prepress company. In the
                          > > specs, many consumer-grade and semi-professional scanners compare
                          > well
                          > > with high-end equipment, but there are more to it than color depth
                          > and
                          > > resolution. Many times a skilled operator and an old Crosfield
                          > Magnascan
                          > > (which took up half a room) creates results that, still, can be
                          > > absolutely outstanding.
                          > >
                          > > When the time comes to the offset printing of the scan, you may
                          > want to
                          > > contact a printing office who works with waterless offset, or FM
                          > screens
                          > > / hybrid screens. Waterless offset makes it possible to reproduce
                          > your
                          > > image using a finer screen, and FM screens (frequency modulated) and
                          > > hybrid screens are methods to screen your image that have some
                          > > advantages over traditional AM screens (amplitude modulated).
                          > >
                          > > Good luck and don't hesitate to drop me a line if you have more
                          > > questions.
                          > >
                          > > Best regards,
                          > > Mats Broberg
                          > >
                          > > Stockholm - Sweden
                        • carey johnson
                          I don t think it really needs to be done all that cheaply. But frankly, I don t know the budget. It won t be large, mind you, but it probably won t be nothing
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I don't think it really needs to be done all that cheaply. But
                            frankly, I don't know the budget. It won't be large, mind you, but it
                            probably won't be nothing either. The thing is, the run will be
                            larger than can be happily produced on a Vandercook. And your point
                            about a run that big & chancing the type is well taken. I still don't
                            know the numbers of the run, either. At least a thousand. Likely more.

                            But are you suggesting that I print (proof) (on the vandercook) and
                            scan each color separately instead of going cmyk? (i.e. Go with
                            pantone spot color for all of it?) I was wondering if that might be a
                            way to go.... Sort of try to reproduce a spot color print on an
                            offset press... and scan each color with a slightly different line
                            screen? I think that seems like a cool idea.


                            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "eroustom" <ERoustom@w...>
                            wrote:
                            > I'm curiouse if this had to be done on the cheap, with a straight
                            desktop scan... I've got some art school printmaking ideas (as in no
                            > budget whatsoever) to lend on this question:
                            > My first suggestion would be to avoid the dot. Don't produce a
                            half tone, but after you edit your (high res. grayscale) scan,
                            > produce line art (bitmap) - if you get it right, the only thing
                            missing will be the impression. Second consider overprinting
                            different
                            > proofs (with different densities of coverage) thereby producing a
                            duotone, and adding some depth and complexity to the
                            > ink/color that is often missing from offset.
                            >
                            > Or find someone with a cylinder press to run the job for real (if I
                            were to do it, I'd make a plate from a scan anyway - I wouldn't
                            > want to take a chance with clunky old wood type surviving 1000
                            impressions without the lock-up exploding).
                            >
                            > Good luck.
                            >
                            > Elias Roustom
                            >
                            > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Mats Broberg"
                            <mats.broberg@a...> wrote:
                            > > > I have plans to offset print a letterpress design done with
                            wood
                            > > > type. We'll print it it on a vandercook, then scan the art to
                            create
                            > > > films. Does anyone have any cautionary advice for the process?
                            Just
                            > > > wondering...
                            > > >
                            > > > All comments welcome.
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks!
                            > > > Carey Johnson
                            > >
                            > > Carey,
                            > >
                            > > Jim makes good points about the problem involved in reproducing a
                            > > letterpress printed item in offset.
                            > >
                            > > If you aim for expressing some of the tactile quality of the
                            item, the
                            > > way to go is probably to work with a professional photographer
                            and spend
                            > > a few hours in tweaking studio lighting. I recall a project a few
                            years
                            > > ago when I worked with a photographer to get a good image of a
                            piece of
                            > > watercolor artwork. At first we tried a traditional reprographic
                            setup
                            > > of the lights, merely to get a starting point, and the result was
                            not
                            > > impressive. We had to spend alot of time working with different
                            angles
                            > > and different types of lightsources to capture some of the
                            > > three-dimensional qualities of the watercolor. If the goal is a
                            mere
                            > > facsimile, then it's another matter and a traditional
                            reprographic setup
                            > > of lighting may work.
                            > >
                            > > Your budget may or may not make it possible to work with a
                            photographer,
                            > > and if it doesn't, you can scan the item on a scanner. However,
                            to get
                            > > as good a result as possible you may prefer to have it scanned on
                            a drum
                            > > scanner at a commercial process engraving / prepress company. In
                            the
                            > > specs, many consumer-grade and semi-professional scanners compare
                            well
                            > > with high-end equipment, but there are more to it than color
                            depth and
                            > > resolution. Many times a skilled operator and an old Crosfield
                            Magnascan
                            > > (which took up half a room) creates results that, still, can be
                            > > absolutely outstanding.
                            > >
                            > > When the time comes to the offset printing of the scan, you may
                            want to
                            > > contact a printing office who works with waterless offset, or FM
                            screens
                            > > / hybrid screens. Waterless offset makes it possible to reproduce
                            your
                            > > image using a finer screen, and FM screens (frequency modulated)
                            and
                            > > hybrid screens are methods to screen your image that have some
                            > > advantages over traditional AM screens (amplitude modulated).
                            > >
                            > > Good luck and don't hesitate to drop me a line if you have more
                            > > questions.
                            > >
                            > > Best regards,
                            > > Mats Broberg
                            > >
                            > > Stockholm - S
                          • carey johnson
                            Casey, (!) This is *very* *very* helpful. Did you get 4-color separations of the whole image after you colored the tiffs? Or output each (spot) color
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Casey,

                              (!) This is *very* *very* helpful. Did you get 4-color separations of
                              the whole image after you colored the tiffs? Or output each (spot)
                              color separately?




                              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Casey McGarr <casey@m...> wrote:
                              > I did a poster at Hatch Show Print and some tin designs and the one
                              thing we
                              > did for the poster was printing each color separate and scan those
                              gray
                              > scale in to the computer. Then in Photoshop save each file as tiff,
                              then
                              > bring the files into Quark Express and coloring the images there.
                              The
                              > transparent inks used in offset gave the same overprint impression
                              as
                              > letterpress printing plus you have more control. The only thing it
                              didn't
                              > have was the tactile feel but it was a great look.
                              >
                              > My 2 cents,
                              >
                              > ::
                              > Casey McGarr
                              > McGarr Creative
                              > http://www.mcgarrcreative.com/
                            • carey johnson
                              because i don t have control over that part of the process. i m hired by a music manager/producer who s shopping a recording to a label. and the label, i
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                because i don't have control over that part of the process. i'm hired
                                by a music manager/producer who's shopping a recording to a label.
                                and the label, i believe, is going to make that decision. i was asked
                                to provide film. but they want letterpress art. if it were up to me,
                                sure, i'd rather see it done letterpress. still, i think the point
                                about doing a run of a thousand or more with wood type not being such
                                a great idea is well taken anyhow...


                                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Michael T Metz <mtmetz@s...>
                                wrote:
                                > Did you say why you didn't want to print it letterpress?
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: carey johnson [mailto:careysuejohnson@y...]
                                > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:04 AM
                                > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: offset printing a letterpress design
                                >
                                >
                                > I don't think it really needs to be done all that cheaply. But
                                > frankly, I don't know the budget. It won't be large, mind you, but
                                it
                                > probably won't be nothing either. The thing is, the run will be
                                > larger than can be happily produced on a Vandercook. And your point
                                > about a run that big & chancing the type is well taken. I still
                                don't
                                > know the numbers of the run, either. At least a thousand. Likely
                                more.
                                >
                                > But are you suggesting that I print (proof) (on the vandercook) and
                                > scan each color separately instead of going cmyk? (i.e. Go with
                                > pantone spot color for all of it?) I was wondering if that might be
                                a
                                > way to go.... Sort of try to reproduce a spot color print on an
                                > offset press... and scan each color with a slightly different line
                                > screen? I think that seems like a cool idea.
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "eroustom" <ERoustom@w...>
                                > wrote:
                                > > I'm curiouse if this had to be done on the cheap, with a straight
                                > desktop scan... I've got some art school printmaking ideas (as in no
                                > > budget whatsoever) to lend on this question:
                                > > My first suggestion would be to avoid the dot. Don't produce a
                                > half tone, but after you edit your (high res. grayscale) scan,
                                > > produce line art (bitmap) - if you get it right, the only thing
                                > missing will be the impression. Second consider overprinting
                                > different
                                > > proofs (with different densities of coverage) thereby producing a
                                > duotone, and adding some depth and complexity to the
                                > > ink/color that is often missing from offset.
                                > >
                                > > Or find someone with a cylinder press to run the job for real (if
                                I
                                > were to do it, I'd make a plate from a scan anyway - I wouldn't
                                > > want to take a chance with clunky old wood type surviving 1000
                                > impressions without the lock-up exploding).
                                > >
                                > > Good luck.
                                > >
                                > > Elias Roustom
                                > >
                                > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Mats Broberg"
                                > <mats.broberg@a...> wrote:
                                > > > > I have plans to offset print a letterpress design done with
                                > wood
                                > > > > type. We'll print it it on a vandercook, then scan the art to
                                > create
                                > > > > films. Does anyone have any cautionary advice for the process?
                                > Just
                                > > > > wondering...
                                > > > >
                                > > > > All comments welcome.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Thanks!
                                > > > > Carey Johnson
                                > > >
                                > > > Carey,
                                > > >
                                > > > Jim makes good points about the problem involved in reproducing
                                a
                                > > > letterpress printed item in offset.
                                > > >
                                > > > If you aim for expressing some of the tactile quality of the
                                > item, the
                                > > > way to go is probably to work with a professional photographer
                                > and spend
                                > > > a few hours in tweaking studio lighting. I recall a project a
                                few
                                > years
                                > > > ago when I worked with a photographer to get a good image of a
                                > piece of
                                > > > watercolor artwork. At first we tried a traditional reprographic
                                > setup
                                > > > of the lights, merely to get a starting point, and the result
                                was
                                > not
                                > > > impressive. We had to spend alot of time working with different
                                > angles
                                > > > and different types of lightsources to capture some of the
                                > > > three-dimensional qualities of the watercolor. If the goal is a
                                > mere
                                > > > facsimile, then it's another matter and a traditional
                                > reprographic setup
                                > > > of lighting may work.
                                > > >
                                > > > Your budget may or may not make it possible to work with a
                                > photographer,
                                > > > and if it doesn't, you can scan the item on a scanner. However,
                                > to get
                                > > > as good a result as possible you may prefer to have it scanned
                                on
                                > a drum
                                > > > scanner at a commercial process engraving / prepress company. In
                                > the
                                > > > specs, many consumer-grade and semi-professional scanners
                                compare
                                > well
                                > > > with high-end equipment, but there are more to it than color
                                > depth and
                                > > > resolution. Many times a skilled operator and an old Crosfield
                                > Magnascan
                                > > > (which took up half a room) creates results that, still, can be
                                > > > absolutely outstanding.
                                > > >
                                > > > When the time comes to the offset printing of the scan, you may
                                > want to
                                > > > contact a printing office who works with waterless offset, or FM
                                > screens
                                > > > / hybrid screens. Waterless offset makes it possible to
                                reproduce
                                > your
                                > > > image using a finer screen, and FM screens (frequency modulated)
                                > and
                                > > > hybrid screens are methods to screen your image that have some
                                > > > advantages over traditional AM screens (amplitude modulated).
                                > > >
                                > > > Good luck and don't hesitate to drop me a line if you have more
                                > > > questions.
                                > > >
                                > > > Best regards,
                                > > > Mats Broberg
                                > > >
                                > > > Stockholm - S
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > • To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
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                                > • Encountering problems? contact:
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                              • Michael T Metz
                                Did you say why you didn t want to print it letterpress? ... From: carey johnson [mailto:careysuejohnson@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:04 AM To:
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Did you say why you didn't want to print it letterpress?

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: carey johnson [mailto:careysuejohnson@...]
                                  Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:04 AM
                                  To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: offset printing a letterpress design


                                  I don't think it really needs to be done all that cheaply. But
                                  frankly, I don't know the budget. It won't be large, mind you, but it
                                  probably won't be nothing either. The thing is, the run will be
                                  larger than can be happily produced on a Vandercook. And your point
                                  about a run that big & chancing the type is well taken. I still don't
                                  know the numbers of the run, either. At least a thousand. Likely more.

                                  But are you suggesting that I print (proof) (on the vandercook) and
                                  scan each color separately instead of going cmyk? (i.e. Go with
                                  pantone spot color for all of it?) I was wondering if that might be a
                                  way to go.... Sort of try to reproduce a spot color print on an
                                  offset press... and scan each color with a slightly different line
                                  screen? I think that seems like a cool idea.


                                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "eroustom" <ERoustom@w...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > I'm curiouse if this had to be done on the cheap, with a straight
                                  desktop scan... I've got some art school printmaking ideas (as in no
                                  > budget whatsoever) to lend on this question:
                                  > My first suggestion would be to avoid the dot. Don't produce a
                                  half tone, but after you edit your (high res. grayscale) scan,
                                  > produce line art (bitmap) - if you get it right, the only thing
                                  missing will be the impression. Second consider overprinting
                                  different
                                  > proofs (with different densities of coverage) thereby producing a
                                  duotone, and adding some depth and complexity to the
                                  > ink/color that is often missing from offset.
                                  >
                                  > Or find someone with a cylinder press to run the job for real (if I
                                  were to do it, I'd make a plate from a scan anyway - I wouldn't
                                  > want to take a chance with clunky old wood type surviving 1000
                                  impressions without the lock-up exploding).
                                  >
                                  > Good luck.
                                  >
                                  > Elias Roustom
                                  >
                                  > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Mats Broberg"
                                  <mats.broberg@a...> wrote:
                                  > > > I have plans to offset print a letterpress design done with
                                  wood
                                  > > > type. We'll print it it on a vandercook, then scan the art to
                                  create
                                  > > > films. Does anyone have any cautionary advice for the process?
                                  Just
                                  > > > wondering...
                                  > > >
                                  > > > All comments welcome.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Thanks!
                                  > > > Carey Johnson
                                  > >
                                  > > Carey,
                                  > >
                                  > > Jim makes good points about the problem involved in reproducing a
                                  > > letterpress printed item in offset.
                                  > >
                                  > > If you aim for expressing some of the tactile quality of the
                                  item, the
                                  > > way to go is probably to work with a professional photographer
                                  and spend
                                  > > a few hours in tweaking studio lighting. I recall a project a few
                                  years
                                  > > ago when I worked with a photographer to get a good image of a
                                  piece of
                                  > > watercolor artwork. At first we tried a traditional reprographic
                                  setup
                                  > > of the lights, merely to get a starting point, and the result was
                                  not
                                  > > impressive. We had to spend alot of time working with different
                                  angles
                                  > > and different types of lightsources to capture some of the
                                  > > three-dimensional qualities of the watercolor. If the goal is a
                                  mere
                                  > > facsimile, then it's another matter and a traditional
                                  reprographic setup
                                  > > of lighting may work.
                                  > >
                                  > > Your budget may or may not make it possible to work with a
                                  photographer,
                                  > > and if it doesn't, you can scan the item on a scanner. However,
                                  to get
                                  > > as good a result as possible you may prefer to have it scanned on
                                  a drum
                                  > > scanner at a commercial process engraving / prepress company. In
                                  the
                                  > > specs, many consumer-grade and semi-professional scanners compare
                                  well
                                  > > with high-end equipment, but there are more to it than color
                                  depth and
                                  > > resolution. Many times a skilled operator and an old Crosfield
                                  Magnascan
                                  > > (which took up half a room) creates results that, still, can be
                                  > > absolutely outstanding.
                                  > >
                                  > > When the time comes to the offset printing of the scan, you may
                                  want to
                                  > > contact a printing office who works with waterless offset, or FM
                                  screens
                                  > > / hybrid screens. Waterless offset makes it possible to reproduce
                                  your
                                  > > image using a finer screen, and FM screens (frequency modulated)
                                  and
                                  > > hybrid screens are methods to screen your image that have some
                                  > > advantages over traditional AM screens (amplitude modulated).
                                  > >
                                  > > Good luck and don't hesitate to drop me a line if you have more
                                  > > questions.
                                  > >
                                  > > Best regards,
                                  > > Mats Broberg
                                  > >
                                  > > Stockholm - S



                                  • To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                                  PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                  • Encountering problems? contact:
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                                • InkPotJim@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 7/17/2003 12:31:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Ah, the dreaded music manager and CD packaging job. Get your money up front! Just kidding.
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    In a message dated 7/17/2003 12:31:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                    careysuejohnson@... writes:

                                    > i'm hired
                                    > by a music manager/producer who's shopping a recording to a label.
                                    > and the label, i believe, is going to make that decision. i was asked
                                    > to provide film. but they want letterpress art.

                                    Ah, the dreaded music manager and CD packaging job. Get your money up front!

                                    Just kidding.

                                    Most CD packaging is printed in gangs, or groups of more than one job at a
                                    time, making it a)cheap for the label, but b) impossible to control. Don't waste
                                    too much time with technical details of the printing process they're using
                                    then -- just concentrate on getting them the best film you can.

                                    I'll assume that since they've hired you to provide film, that it's money out
                                    of your pocket (which they may or may not have to reimburse you for,
                                    depending on your contract) to have transparencies and scans made, etc. If it falls
                                    under a reimburseable for you and they approve, go for the "raking light" and
                                    get a nice shot taken, then send them the bill.

                                    CD labels as a whole are printed 4-color en masse, unless you're REM or some
                                    other multi platinum artist that the record co. can afford to pull out all the
                                    stops for. So spot colors are the exception rather than the rule. Especially
                                    for printers that are putting 7 other CD labels on the same press sheet and
                                    can't afford to accomodate special requests. It's the same principle as the
                                    cheapo postcard printers. Your situation might be different, but there's a good
                                    chance what im describing is the situation youre in.

                                    And then like any good businessperson, you should then immediately remind
                                    them that you own the reproduction rights to the cover artwork beyond any use on
                                    CD covers, and "By the way, would the band or the label be interested in
                                    buying a limited edition of the actual letterpress artwork to give as gifts?".

                                    If you cant have an actual letterpressed CD cover, at least you can get some
                                    prints into the hands of someone who might appreciate them.

                                    Jim Harrison
                                    DECA Design
                                    Gainesville, FL


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • carey johnson
                                    Hm. Thanks. All smart things to keep in mind. And yes, I do believe that is the position I m in. Also, I appreciate the tip about the gang printing methods for
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hm. Thanks. All smart things to keep in mind. And yes, I do believe
                                      that is the position I'm in. Also, I appreciate the tip about the
                                      gang printing methods for CD's. Hadn't thought about that. This one
                                      is a digipack thing. Don't know if that'll make a difference, but I
                                      believe you're right about the budget approach. We shall see...



                                      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, InkPotJim@a... wrote:
                                      > In a message dated 7/17/2003 12:31:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                      > careysuejohnson@y... writes:
                                      >
                                      > > i'm hired
                                      > > by a music manager/producer who's shopping a recording to a
                                      label.
                                      > > and the label, i believe, is going to make that decision. i was
                                      asked
                                      > > to provide film. but they want letterpress art.
                                      >
                                      > Ah, the dreaded music manager and CD packaging job. Get your money
                                      up front!
                                      >
                                      > Just kidding.
                                      >
                                      > Most CD packaging is printed in gangs, or groups of more than one
                                      job at a
                                      > time, making it a)cheap for the label, but b) impossible to
                                      control. Don't waste
                                      > too much time with technical details of the printing process
                                      they're using
                                      > then -- just concentrate on getting them the best film you can.
                                      >
                                      > I'll assume that since they've hired you to provide film, that it's
                                      money out
                                      > of your pocket (which they may or may not have to reimburse you
                                      for,
                                      > depending on your contract) to have transparencies and scans made,
                                      etc. If it falls
                                      > under a reimburseable for you and they approve, go for the "raking
                                      light" and
                                      > get a nice shot taken, then send them the bill.
                                      >
                                      > CD labels as a whole are printed 4-color en masse, unless you're
                                      REM or some
                                      > other multi platinum artist that the record co. can afford to pull
                                      out all the
                                      > stops for. So spot colors are the exception rather than the rule.
                                      Especially
                                      > for printers that are putting 7 other CD labels on the same press
                                      sheet and
                                      > can't afford to accomodate special requests. It's the same
                                      principle as the
                                      > cheapo postcard printers. Your situation might be different, but
                                      there's a good
                                      > chance what im describing is the situation youre in.
                                      >
                                      > And then like any good businessperson, you should then immediately
                                      remind
                                      > them that you own the reproduction rights to the cover artwork
                                      beyond any use on
                                      > CD covers, and "By the way, would the band or the label be
                                      interested in
                                      > buying a limited edition of the actual letterpress artwork to give
                                      as gifts?".
                                      >
                                      > If you cant have an actual letterpressed CD cover, at least you can
                                      get some
                                      > prints into the hands of someone who might appreciate them.
                                      >
                                      > Jim Harrison
                                      > DECA Design
                                      > Gainesville, FL
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • cmcgarr1957
                                      each color scanned in and then colored in quark, spot color, not 4 color process.
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        each color scanned in and then colored in quark, spot color, not 4 color
                                        process.

                                        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "carey johnson" <
                                        careysuejohnson@y...> wrote:
                                        > Casey,
                                        >
                                        > (!) This is *very* *very* helpful. Did you get 4-color separations of
                                        > the whole image after you colored the tiffs? Or output each (spot)
                                        > color separately?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Casey McGarr <casey@m...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > > I did a poster at Hatch Show Print and some tin designs and the one
                                        > thing we
                                        > > did for the poster was printing each color separate and scan those
                                        > gray
                                        > > scale in to the computer. Then in Photoshop save each file as tiff,
                                        > then
                                        > > bring the files into Quark Express and coloring the images there.
                                        > The
                                        > > transparent inks used in offset gave the same overprint impression
                                        > as
                                        > > letterpress printing plus you have more control. The only thing it
                                        > didn't
                                        > > have was the tactile feel but it was a great look.
                                        > >
                                        > > My 2 cents,
                                        > >
                                        > > ::
                                        > > Casey McGarr
                                        > > McGarr Creative
                                        > > http://www.mcgarrcreative.com/
                                      • carey johnson
                                        thank you! ... color ... separations of ... (spot) ... one ... those ... tiff, ... there. ... impression ... it
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          thank you!

                                          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "cmcgarr1957" <casey@m...>
                                          wrote:
                                          > each color scanned in and then colored in quark, spot color, not 4
                                          color
                                          > process.
                                          >
                                          > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "carey johnson" <
                                          > careysuejohnson@y...> wrote:
                                          > > Casey,
                                          > >
                                          > > (!) This is *very* *very* helpful. Did you get 4-color
                                          separations of
                                          > > the whole image after you colored the tiffs? Or output each
                                          (spot)
                                          > > color separately?
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Casey McGarr <casey@m...>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > > > I did a poster at Hatch Show Print and some tin designs and the
                                          one
                                          > > thing we
                                          > > > did for the poster was printing each color separate and scan
                                          those
                                          > > gray
                                          > > > scale in to the computer. Then in Photoshop save each file as
                                          tiff,
                                          > > then
                                          > > > bring the files into Quark Express and coloring the images
                                          there.
                                          > > The
                                          > > > transparent inks used in offset gave the same overprint
                                          impression
                                          > > as
                                          > > > letterpress printing plus you have more control. The only thing
                                          it
                                          > > didn't
                                          > > > have was the tactile feel but it was a great look.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > My 2 cents,
                                          > > >
                                          > > > ::
                                          > > > Casey McGarr
                                          > > > McGarr Creative
                                          > > > http://www.mcgarrcreative.com/
                                        • Michael T Metz
                                          The printing can still be done letterpress without printing the full run with the wood type. Plates can be made from letterpress proofs much easier than what
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            The printing can still be done letterpress without printing
                                            the full run with the wood type. Plates can be made from
                                            letterpress proofs much easier than what you will have to do
                                            to get a photograph to reproduce the effect. The end product
                                            can then be printed from the new plates.

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: carey johnson [mailto:careysuejohnson@...]
                                            Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:30 AM
                                            To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: offset printing a letterpress design


                                            because i don't have control over that part of the process. i'm hired
                                            by a music manager/producer who's shopping a recording to a label.
                                            and the label, i believe, is going to make that decision. i was asked
                                            to provide film. but they want letterpress art. if it were up to me,
                                            sure, i'd rather see it done letterpress. still, i think the point
                                            about doing a run of a thousand or more with wood type not being such
                                            a great idea is well taken anyhow...


                                            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Michael T Metz <mtmetz@s...>
                                            wrote:
                                            > Did you say why you didn't want to print it letterpress?
                                            >
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: carey johnson [mailto:careysuejohnson@y...]
                                            > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:04 AM
                                            > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: offset printing a letterpress design
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I don't think it really needs to be done all that cheaply. But
                                            > frankly, I don't know the budget. It won't be large, mind you, but
                                            it
                                            > probably won't be nothing either. The thing is, the run will be
                                            > larger than can be happily produced on a Vandercook. And your point
                                            > about a run that big & chancing the type is well taken. I still
                                            don't
                                            > know the numbers of the run, either. At least a thousand. Likely
                                            more.
                                            >
                                            > But are you suggesting that I print (proof) (on the vandercook) and
                                            > scan each color separately instead of going cmyk? (i.e. Go with
                                            > pantone spot color for all of it?) I was wondering if that might be
                                            a
                                            > way to go.... Sort of try to reproduce a spot color print on an
                                            > offset press... and scan each color with a slightly different line
                                            > screen? I think that seems like a cool idea.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "eroustom" <ERoustom@w...>
                                            > wrote:
                                            > > I'm curiouse if this had to be done on the cheap, with a straight
                                            > desktop scan... I've got some art school printmaking ideas (as in no
                                            > > budget whatsoever) to lend on this question:
                                            > > My first suggestion would be to avoid the dot. Don't produce a
                                            > half tone, but after you edit your (high res. grayscale) scan,
                                            > > produce line art (bitmap) - if you get it right, the only thing
                                            > missing will be the impression. Second consider overprinting
                                            > different
                                            > > proofs (with different densities of coverage) thereby producing a
                                            > duotone, and adding some depth and complexity to the
                                            > > ink/color that is often missing from offset.
                                            > >
                                            > > Or find someone with a cylinder press to run the job for real (if
                                            I
                                            > were to do it, I'd make a plate from a scan anyway - I wouldn't
                                            > > want to take a chance with clunky old wood type surviving 1000
                                            > impressions without the lock-up exploding).
                                            > >
                                            > > Good luck.
                                            > >
                                            > > Elias Roustom
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Mats Broberg"
                                            > <mats.broberg@a...> wrote:
                                            > > > > I have plans to offset print a letterpress design done with
                                            > wood
                                            > > > > type. We'll print it it on a vandercook, then scan the art to
                                            > create
                                            > > > > films. Does anyone have any cautionary advice for the process?
                                            > Just
                                            > > > > wondering...
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > All comments welcome.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Thanks!
                                            > > > > Carey Johnson
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Carey,
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Jim makes good points about the problem involved in reproducing
                                            a
                                            > > > letterpress printed item in offset.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > If you aim for expressing some of the tactile quality of the
                                            > item, the
                                            > > > way to go is probably to work with a professional photographer
                                            > and spend
                                            > > > a few hours in tweaking studio lighting. I recall a project a
                                            few
                                            > years
                                            > > > ago when I worked with a photographer to get a good image of a
                                            > piece of
                                            > > > watercolor artwork. At first we tried a traditional reprographic
                                            > setup
                                            > > > of the lights, merely to get a starting point, and the result
                                            was
                                            > not
                                            > > > impressive. We had to spend alot of time working with different
                                            > angles
                                            > > > and different types of lightsources to capture some of the
                                            > > > three-dimensional qualities of the watercolor. If the goal is a
                                            > mere
                                            > > > facsimile, then it's another matter and a traditional
                                            > reprographic setup
                                            > > > of lighting may work.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Your budget may or may not make it possible to work with a
                                            > photographer,
                                            > > > and if it doesn't, you can scan the item on a scanner. However,
                                            > to get
                                            > > > as good a result as possible you may prefer to have it scanned
                                            on
                                            > a drum
                                            > > > scanner at a commercial process engraving / prepress company. In
                                            > the
                                            > > > specs, many consumer-grade and semi-professional scanners
                                            compare
                                            > well
                                            > > > with high-end equipment, but there are more to it than color
                                            > depth and
                                            > > > resolution. Many times a skilled operator and an old Crosfield
                                            > Magnascan
                                            > > > (which took up half a room) creates results that, still, can be
                                            > > > absolutely outstanding.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > When the time comes to the offset printing of the scan, you may
                                            > want to
                                            > > > contact a printing office who works with waterless offset, or FM
                                            > screens
                                            > > > / hybrid screens. Waterless offset makes it possible to
                                            reproduce
                                            > your
                                            > > > image using a finer screen, and FM screens (frequency modulated)
                                            > and
                                            > > > hybrid screens are methods to screen your image that have some
                                            > > > advantages over traditional AM screens (amplitude modulated).
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Good luck and don't hesitate to drop me a line if you have more
                                            > > > questions.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Best regards,
                                            > > > Mats Broberg
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Stockholm - S
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > • To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                                            > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                            > • Encountering problems? contact:
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                                            > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            >
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                                          • carey johnson
                                            Thanks for the tip. We ll see what their budget is and whether we in fact will have any say in how it s printed. I appreciate your help. ... hired ... asked
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Thanks for the tip. We'll see what their budget is and whether we in
                                              fact will have any say in how it's printed. I appreciate your help.

                                              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Michael T Metz <mtmetz@s...>
                                              wrote:
                                              > The printing can still be done letterpress without printing
                                              > the full run with the wood type. Plates can be made from
                                              > letterpress proofs much easier than what you will have to do
                                              > to get a photograph to reproduce the effect. The end product
                                              > can then be printed from the new plates.
                                              >
                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: carey johnson [mailto:careysuejohnson@y...]
                                              > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:30 AM
                                              > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: offset printing a letterpress design
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > because i don't have control over that part of the process. i'm
                                              hired
                                              > by a music manager/producer who's shopping a recording to a label.
                                              > and the label, i believe, is going to make that decision. i was
                                              asked
                                              > to provide film. but they want letterpress art. if it were up to me,
                                              > sure, i'd rather see it done letterpress. still, i think the point
                                              > about doing a run of a thousand or more with wood type not being
                                              such
                                              > a great idea is well taken anyhow...
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Michael T Metz <mtmetz@s...>
                                              > wrote:
                                              > > Did you say why you didn't want to print it letterpress?
                                              > >
                                              > > -----Original Message-----
                                              > > From: carey johnson [mailto:careysuejohnson@y...]
                                              > > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:04 AM
                                              > > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: offset printing a letterpress design
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > I don't think it really needs to be done all that cheaply. But
                                              > > frankly, I don't know the budget. It won't be large, mind you, but
                                              > it
                                              > > probably won't be nothing either. The thing is, the run will be
                                              > > larger than can be happily produced on a Vandercook. And your
                                              point
                                              > > about a run that big & chancing the type is well taken. I still
                                              > don't
                                              > > know the numbers of the run, either. At least a thousand. Likely
                                              > more.
                                              > >
                                              > > But are you suggesting that I print (proof) (on the vandercook)
                                              and
                                              > > scan each color separately instead of going cmyk? (i.e. Go with
                                              > > pantone spot color for all of it?) I was wondering if that might
                                              be
                                              > a
                                              > > way to go.... Sort of try to reproduce a spot color print on an
                                              > > offset press... and scan each color with a slightly different line
                                              > > screen? I think that seems like a cool idea.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "eroustom" <ERoustom@w...>
                                              > > wrote:
                                              > > > I'm curiouse if this had to be done on the cheap, with a
                                              straight
                                              > > desktop scan... I've got some art school printmaking ideas (as in
                                              no
                                              > > > budget whatsoever) to lend on this question:
                                              > > > My first suggestion would be to avoid the dot. Don't produce
                                              a
                                              > > half tone, but after you edit your (high res. grayscale) scan,
                                              > > > produce line art (bitmap) - if you get it right, the only thing
                                              > > missing will be the impression. Second consider overprinting
                                              > > different
                                              > > > proofs (with different densities of coverage) thereby producing
                                              a
                                              > > duotone, and adding some depth and complexity to the
                                              > > > ink/color that is often missing from offset.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Or find someone with a cylinder press to run the job for real
                                              (if
                                              > I
                                              > > were to do it, I'd make a plate from a scan anyway - I wouldn't
                                              > > > want to take a chance with clunky old wood type surviving 1000
                                              > > impressions without the lock-up exploding).
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Good luck.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Elias Roustom
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Mats Broberg"
                                              > > <mats.broberg@a...> wrote:
                                              > > > > > I have plans to offset print a letterpress design done with
                                              > > wood
                                              > > > > > type. We'll print it it on a vandercook, then scan the art
                                              to
                                              > > create
                                              > > > > > films. Does anyone have any cautionary advice for the
                                              process?
                                              > > Just
                                              > > > > > wondering...
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > All comments welcome.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Thanks!
                                              > > > > > Carey Johnson
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Carey,
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Jim makes good points about the problem involved in
                                              reproducing
                                              > a
                                              > > > > letterpress printed item in offset.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > If you aim for expressing some of the tactile quality of the
                                              > > item, the
                                              > > > > way to go is probably to work with a professional photographer
                                              > > and spend
                                              > > > > a few hours in tweaking studio lighting. I recall a project a
                                              > few
                                              > > years
                                              > > > > ago when I worked with a photographer to get a good image of a
                                              > > piece of
                                              > > > > watercolor artwork. At first we tried a traditional
                                              reprographic
                                              > > setup
                                              > > > > of the lights, merely to get a starting point, and the result
                                              > was
                                              > > not
                                              > > > > impressive. We had to spend alot of time working with
                                              different
                                              > > angles
                                              > > > > and different types of lightsources to capture some of the
                                              > > > > three-dimensional qualities of the watercolor. If the goal is
                                              a
                                              > > mere
                                              > > > > facsimile, then it's another matter and a traditional
                                              > > reprographic setup
                                              > > > > of lighting may work.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Your budget may or may not make it possible to work with a
                                              > > photographer,
                                              > > > > and if it doesn't, you can scan the item on a scanner.
                                              However,
                                              > > to get
                                              > > > > as good a result as possible you may prefer to have it scanned
                                              > on
                                              > > a drum
                                              > > > > scanner at a commercial process engraving / prepress company.
                                              In
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > specs, many consumer-grade and semi-professional scanners
                                              > compare
                                              > > well
                                              > > > > with high-end equipment, but there are more to it than color
                                              > > depth and
                                              > > > > resolution. Many times a skilled operator and an old Crosfield
                                              > > Magnascan
                                              > > > > (which took up half a room) creates results that, still, can
                                              be
                                              > > > > absolutely outstanding.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > When the time comes to the offset printing of the scan, you
                                              may
                                              > > want to
                                              > > > > contact a printing office who works with waterless offset, or
                                              FM
                                              > > screens
                                              > > > > / hybrid screens. Waterless offset makes it possible to
                                              > reproduce
                                              > > your
                                              > > > > image using a finer screen, and FM screens (frequency
                                              modulated)
                                              > > and
                                              > > > > hybrid screens are methods to screen your image that have some
                                              > > > > advantages over traditional AM screens (amplitude modulated).
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Good luck and don't hesitate to drop me a line if you have
                                              more
                                              > > > > questions.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Best regards,
                                              > > > > Mats Broberg
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Stockholm - S
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > • To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                                              > > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > • Encountering problems? contact:
                                              > > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > • To unsubscribe:
                                              > > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >
                                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > • To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                                              > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                              > • Encountering problems? contact:
                                              > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                              > • To unsubscribe:
                                              > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            • Gerald Lange
                                              Folks You don t actually have to thank each and every poster who replies to a post. That s thoughtful and considerate... but it does go a bit against
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Jul 17, 2003
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                                                Folks

                                                You don't actually have to thank each and every poster who replies to
                                                a post. That's thoughtful and considerate... but it does go a bit
                                                against netiquette as the post goes to each and every member and
                                                begins to fill up their mailbox. Could get a bit irritating to some
                                                folks after a time. You can just post a thank you back to the
                                                responder privately. Good way to make lasting friends. Also, if you do
                                                respond to a post it is best and least intrusive to clip all the extra
                                                material from previous posts to the thread, etc., before you hit the
                                                return. Keep the pertinent material but delete the rest. Thanks.

                                                Gerald Lange
                                                Moderator
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