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European incompatibility

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  • sternandfaye
    While I m not certain what the protocol is these days at the European type foundries, in years past the type sold to the American .918 type market was ALWAYS
    Message 1 of 9 , May 27, 2003
      While I'm not certain what the protocol is these days at the European type
      foundries, in years past the type sold to the American .918 type market was
      ALWAYS milled down to our type height. I have dozens of European types in my
      cases and it all is .918. And, many of the faces cast by Bauer, such as the
      Venus family, or Standard, are also .918. Unless I've missed something along
      the way, buying European type should not be a problem.

      Chris Stern
      Grey Spider Press
      AKA Stern & Faye Printers
      37607 Cape Horn Road
      Sedro-Woolley, WA 98284
      360.826.5306
    • John Cornelisse
      ... Chris, Standard is only standard to anyone using the standard... Believe me,in Dutch books standard means .9875 , French books mean .932 , in Belgium it
      Message 2 of 9 , May 27, 2003
        At 09:55 27-05-2003 -0700, you wrote:
        >While I'm not certain what the protocol is these days at the European type
        >foundries, in years past the type sold to the American .918 type market was
        >ALWAYS milled down to our type height. I have dozens of European types in my
        >cases and it all is .918. And, many of the faces cast by Bauer, such as the
        >Venus family, or Standard, are also .918. Unless I've missed something along
        >the way, buying European type should not be a problem.
        >
        >Chris Stern
        >Grey Spider Press
        >AKA Stern & Faye Printers
        >37607 Cape Horn Road
        >Sedro-Woolley, WA 98284
        >360.826.5306

        Chris,

        Standard is only standard to anyone using the standard...

        Believe me,in Dutch books "standard" means .9875", French books mean .932",
        in Belgium it can mean .933" or .928" (depending from the language you
        might speak ?) and in Germany it is different again.

        Dividing the world market, Monotype America and Monotype England decided to
        use a different depth in their matrices, so American mat combined with an
        English mould will give type a little bit less than .918" or visa versa a
        little bit higher...

        The Typemuseum in London at present grind their mats, to compensate this,
        they like to sell their newly mats in America too.

        Even about the corps-sizes, Monotype England made moulds for three systems:
        pica, didot and fournier.
        All to please their customer.

        I've found them all. Please do, you tell me, what's standard in this world ?

        Looking to the telly: is it "secam" or "pal", let's divide the world just
        for the sake of money-making.

        Best wishes,

        John Cornelisse

        Enkidu-Press, letterpress & type-founding, Apa 754
        Vaartstraat 23, 4553 AN Philippine, zeeuws vlaanderen
        The Netherlands, +31 (0) 115 491184
        email: enkidu@...

        'You are so handsome, Enkidu, you are just like a god !
        Why with the beast do you wander in the wild ?
        Come I will take you to Uruk-the-Sheepfold,
        to the sacred temple, home of Anu and Isthar,

        Where Gilgamesh is perfect in strength,
        like a wild bull lording it over the menfolk.
        So she spoke to him and her word found favour,
        he knew by instinct, he should seek a friend.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Phillip Driscoll
        I believe Chris meant the typeface named Standard. It s a sans-serif face similar to Helvetica. Bauer will gladly mill your type to 0.918 inches for a small
        Message 3 of 9 , May 27, 2003
          I believe Chris meant the typeface named "Standard." It's a
          sans-serif face similar to Helvetica.

          Bauer will gladly mill your type to 0.918 inches for a small fee.

          --Phillip Driscoll

          ----- Originala Mesagxo -----
          De: "sternandfaye" <flywheel@...>
          Al: "pp letterpress listserve" <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
          Sendita: Mardon, 27an de majo 2003, 12:55 ptm
          Temo: [PPLetterpress] European incompatibility


          While I'm not certain what the protocol is these days at the European type
          foundries, in years past the type sold to the American .918 type market was
          ALWAYS milled down to our type height. I have dozens of European types in my
          cases and it all is .918. And, many of the faces cast by Bauer, such as the
          Venus family, or Standard, are also .918. Unless I've missed something along
          the way, buying European type should not be a problem.

          Chris Stern
          Grey Spider Press
          AKA Stern & Faye Printers
          37607 Cape Horn Road
          Sedro-Woolley, WA 98284
          360.826.5306
        • Gerald Lange
          ... Phillip Bauersche Giesserei closed its foundry in 1972. Many of the Bauer matrices are now held by Fundición Tipográfica Neufville. Many others were lost
          Message 4 of 9 , May 28, 2003
            > Bauer will gladly mill your type to 0.918 inches for a small fee.
            >
            > --Phillip Driscoll


            Phillip

            Bauersche Giesserei closed its foundry in 1972. Many of the Bauer
            matrices are now held by Fundición Tipográfica Neufville. Many others
            were lost in transit. Neufville did have a relationship with Bauer but
            I don't think you could call them "Bauer" or even a branch of Bauer.

            Neufville was the only source for Bauer faces immediately prior to and during the second World War. Most German faces were censored in the US by right minded trade printing organizations. I have a partial list if you are interested.

            Neufville is currently digitizing their holdings as Neufville Digital
            Type Foundry. They also hold matrices from Ludwig & Mayer, Fonderie
            Typographique Française, Fundición Tipográfica Nacional.

            http://www.neufville.com/uk/start_uk.htm

            And, of course, they are still casting, and to American height.

            Gerald
          • Phillip Driscoll
            Their latest type specimen book, as well as letterheads from the company, (both from 2000) identify them as Fundición Tipográfica Bauer SL so I think that
            Message 5 of 9 , May 28, 2003
              Their latest type specimen book, as well as letterheads
              from the company, (both from 2000) identify them as
              "Fundición Tipográfica Bauer SL" so I think that one
              could very well refer to them as "Bauer."

              The Neufville name only appears in their email
              addresses. I believe they started out as a branch of
              Bauersche Giesserei (in Frankfurt) as that company
              advertised as early as the 1920s that they had a
              branch foundry in Barcelona.

              They don't cast to American height or point size. They
              only cast to Didot sizes (nothing greater than 36 pt.)
              and to 0.928 inches, but will mill the type to 0.918.

              --Ph. D.

              ----- Originala Mesagxo -----
              De: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
              Al: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
              Sendita: Merkredon, 28an de majo 2003, 3:23 atm
              Temo: [PPLetterpress] Re: European incompatibility


              > Bauer will gladly mill your type to 0.918 inches for a small fee.
              >
              > --Phillip Driscoll

              Bauersche Giesserei closed its foundry in 1972. Neufville
              did have a relationship with Bauer but I don't think you could
              call them "Bauer" or even a branch of Bauer.

              And, of course, they are still casting, and to American height.

              Gerald
            • Gerald Lange
              Phillip I know Neufville began appending the Bauer name but I think this was relatively recently (?) in the scheme of things. I do have some specimen
              Message 6 of 9 , May 28, 2003
                Phillip

                I know Neufville began appending the Bauer name but I think this was
                relatively recently (?) in the scheme of things. I do have some
                specimen literature from them in the mid 1980s as Neufville (not
                Bauer, but listing Bauer faces). I sat in on a discussion with Dreyfus
                (a few years after the acquisition) where he talked about the tragic
                move of the matrices and he seemed to indicate that Neufville was its
                own foundry or, at least, was casting rather than just distributing.
                Which begged (or begs) the question: why did they need the matrices if
                they were already casting for Bauer? And why then were many of these
                lost and gone forever as a result of the border skirmish? But looking
                at the list now I do not see any typefaces that could be attributed to
                Neufville independently, or maybe they are simply listing these as
                Neufville Digital? Considering what they have, most of the digital
                releases seem quite bad choices at this point.

                I was buying from Neufville through Castcraft of NY but eventually
                Castcraft (of NY) disappeared from the radar. Yeah, the type was
                ground, not cast to American height. Bad wording on my part. Sorry.

                What have you been buying from them (Neufville, Bauer, whatever)? Good
                luck, bad luck?

                Gerald


                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Phillip Driscoll" <phild@a...>
                wrote:
                > Their latest type specimen book, as well as letterheads
                > from the company, (both from 2000) identify them as
                > "Fundición Tipográfica Bauer SL" so I think that one
                > could very well refer to them as "Bauer."
                >
                > The Neufville name only appears in their email
                > addresses. I believe they started out as a branch of
                > Bauersche Giesserei (in Frankfurt) as that company
                > advertised as early as the 1920s that they had a
                > branch foundry in Barcelona.
                >
                > They don't cast to American height or point size. They
                > only cast to Didot sizes (nothing greater than 36 pt.)
                > and to 0.928 inches, but will mill the type to 0.918.
                >
                > --Ph. D.
                >
                > ----- Originala Mesagxo -----
                > De: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...>
                > Al: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sendita: Merkredon, 28an de majo 2003, 3:23 atm
                > Temo: [PPLetterpress] Re: European incompatibility
                >
                >
                > > Bauer will gladly mill your type to 0.918 inches for a small fee.
                > >
                > > --Phillip Driscoll
                >
                > Bauersche Giesserei closed its foundry in 1972. Neufville
                > did have a relationship with Bauer but I don't think you could
                > call them "Bauer" or even a branch of Bauer.
                >
                > And, of course, they are still casting, and to American height.
                >
                > Gerald
              • Kathleen Whalen
                The company name is now Fundicion Tipografica Bauer address Selva de Mar, 50 08019 Barcelona Spain Phone (+34) 93 308 45 45 email bauer@neufville.com They have
                Message 7 of 9 , May 29, 2003
                  The company name is now
                  Fundicion Tipografica Bauer

                  address Selva de Mar, 50
                  08019 Barcelona
                  Spain

                  Phone (+34) 93 308 45 45
                  email bauer@...

                  They have a specimen book of types being cast on didot bodies.
                  They do not charge extra to supply the type at .918

                  Unfortunately as the Bauer foundry cast and sold and continued to make
                  payments to their many Jewish employees and anti-nazi employees (for example
                  Paul Renner, Elisabeth Friedlander, Berthold Wolpe, E. R. Weiss) the action
                  of the "right-minded trade printing organizations" might also be construed
                  as the usual trade protectionism that Europeans have come to expect from the
                  US. Comes perhaps of sweeping with too big a brush.

                  Regards,


                  Graham Moss
                  Incline Press
                  11A Printer Street
                  Oldham OL1 1PN England
                  (44) 0161 627 1966
                  http://www.inclinepress.com


                  > From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
                  > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 07:23:21 -0000
                  > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: European incompatibility
                  >
                  >
                  >> Bauer will gladly mill your type to 0.918 inches for a small fee.
                  >>
                  >> --Phillip Driscoll
                  >
                  >
                  > Phillip
                  >
                  > Bauersche Giesserei closed its foundry in 1972. Many of the Bauer
                  > matrices are now held by Fundición Tipográfica Neufville. Many others
                  > were lost in transit. Neufville did have a relationship with Bauer but
                  > I don't think you could call them "Bauer" or even a branch of Bauer.
                  >
                  > Neufville was the only source for Bauer faces immediately prior to and during
                  > the second World War. Most German faces were censored in the US by right
                  > minded trade printing organizations. I have a partial list if you are
                  > interested.
                  >
                  > Neufville is currently digitizing their holdings as Neufville Digital
                  > Type Foundry. They also hold matrices from Ludwig & Mayer, Fonderie
                  > Typographique Française, Fundición Tipográfica Nacional.
                  >
                  > http://www.neufville.com/uk/start_uk.htm
                  >
                  > And, of course, they are still casting, and to American height.
                  >
                  > Gerald
                  >
                  >
                • Michael Russem
                  ... I bought 16-, 20-, & 36-poit Columna two years ago. It s very well cast, and the price was very reasonable. I think it worked out to $13 a pound (including
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 29, 2003
                    > What have you been buying from them (Neufville, Bauer, whatever)? Good
                    > luck, bad luck?
                    >
                    > Gerald

                    I bought 16-, 20-, & 36-poit Columna two years
                    ago. It's very well cast, and the price was very
                    reasonable. I think it worked out to $13 a pound
                    (including shipping). The type was indeed milled
                    to .918. I wasn't too crazy about the packing,
                    though. I don't seem to recall any chip board. I
                    think the fonts were just tied up & wrapped in
                    paper. At any rate, a few of the kerned tails on the
                    'Q' had broken off and damaged some other
                    letters---but they were replaced at no charge. Mr
                    Hartmann seems to be a good sport.



                    Michael Russem
                    --
                    Kat Ran Press
                    221 Pine Street #1G5
                    Florence, Massachusetts 01062
                    413.584.1152 phone & fax
                    katran@...
                    http://www.katranpress.com
                  • Phillip Driscoll
                    A couple of years ago, I bought a font of 20 pt Schneidler Mediaeval, a font of 16 pt Privat, and a font of 24 pt Arabic Inline (think of Arabic in the style
                    Message 9 of 9 , May 29, 2003
                      A couple of years ago, I bought a font of 20 pt Schneidler
                      Mediaeval, a font of 16 pt Privat, and a font of 24 pt Arabic
                      Inline (think of Arabic in the style of Goudy Handtooled).
                      All the type is beautifully cast, didot point sizes and milled
                      to American height. It was all packed very well. Nothing
                      was broken. My only problem was that they shipped it
                      through air freight which required a customs broker at this
                      end. Dealing with the broker was a terrible experience.
                      Later I bought a font of 36 pt Columna. It also arrived in
                      excellent condition, and even contained a set of matching
                      piece accents. It was small enough that it simply showed
                      up at my door.

                      It's unfortunate that they have cut back on their list of faces
                      they offer. I suspect their primary market is still the few
                      remaining commercial users of metal type. More than half
                      their catalog is sans serif faces. They offer only a few small
                      sizes of serif faces, sometimes without the matching italics.
                      They will do custom castings of faces in their vault, but the
                      minimum poundage requirement is high.

                      Mr Hartmann said they donated the casting machines for
                      sizes over 36 pt to a technical college in Spain, and they
                      were trying to get the Spanish government to buy them out
                      and turn them into a museum. He estimated they would
                      still be casting type for no more than five years.

                      --Phillip Driscoll

                      ----- Originala Mesagxo -----
                      De: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
                      Al: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sendita: Jxauxdon, 29an de majo 2003, 12:46 atm
                      Temo: [PPLetterpress] Re: European incompatibility

                      What have you been buying from them (Neufville, Bauer, whatever)? Good
                      luck, bad luck?

                      Gerald
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