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Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Polymer toxicity?

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  • Gerald Lange
    Dear Mark Actually, I don t think they are saying they are toxic. Note, no other manufacturer actually has come out with such a statement, far as I can tell.
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 4, 2001
      Dear Mark

      Actually, I don't think they are saying they are toxic. Note, no other
      manufacturer actually has come out with such a statement, far as I can tell.
      Basically, and I suspect this is true, they are saying some people might be
      "sensitive" or react to continued exposure.

      I mentioned in a recent post how I thought BASF plates "stunk." They smell
      awful. And they crud up the washout unit. I'm guessing there was a very subtle
      transition between the "older technology" photopolymer and present-day
      photopolymer (both Miraclon and BASF's nyloprint may be a bit "older" than say
      the later Japanese developments) and my suspicions are that early nyloprint
      material and most of Miraclon material may be of transition formulation.
      Especially Miraclon, since it is so associated with liquid photopolymer
      applications and techniques and the "older" chemical washout processes.
      For example, Tim's trick with the talcum powder, was, at one time, almost a
      requirement but this is now never mentioned in industrial reports on sheet
      polymer processing, though often is when referring to liguid photopolymer.

      Use the gloves, please. If you are hand-washing this stuff, use gloves. Also,
      BASF does recommend that you throw away those acetate cover sheets once they
      are pulled off the raw material, and that you do not use them for any other
      purpose.

      It would seem quite clear that finished material poses no threat, but that high
      concentrations of raw material suspended in the wash are best avoided.

      Gerald



      Mark Attwood wrote:
      >
      > Hi Gerald,
      >
      > So reading between the lines BASF are saying that the washout solution may
      > be toxic. I have found that the bASF plates give off a destinct odour which
      > makes me feel a bit queezy and headachey, whereas the Jet brand does not.
      >
      > I will use gloves from now on when doing washout by hand.
      >
      > The BASF report says nothing about the fumes. Do you have any idea of that?
      >
      > Regards,
      > Mark.
      >
      > Mark Attwood
      >
      > The Artists' Press
      > Box 623
      > Newtown
      > 2113
      > South Africa
    • Mark Attwood
      Hi Gerald, So reading between the lines BASF are saying that the washout solution may be toxic. I have found that the bASF plates give off a destinct odour
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 4, 2001
        Hi Gerald,

        So reading between the lines BASF are saying that the washout solution may
        be toxic. I have found that the bASF plates give off a destinct odour which
        makes me feel a bit queezy and headachey, whereas the Jet brand does not.

        I will use gloves from now on when doing washout by hand.

        The BASF report says nothing about the fumes. Do you have any idea of that?

        Regards,
        Mark.



        Mark Attwood

        The Artists' Press
        Box 623
        Newtown
        2113
        South Africa

        Tel. +27 11 836 5474
        fax. +27 11 836 6858
        mark@...


        ----------
        >From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
        >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Polymer toxicity?
        >Date: Thu, Oct 4, 2001, 1:58 am
        >

        > Dear Mark and fundis
        >
        > This is the only printed report I have ever found on safety
        > precautions. I'll put this in Files also. This is an industry report
        > put out by BASF. A couple of considerations. First, this is
        > essentially a disclaimer. Second, this is assuming industrial
        > practices; heavy workload; high concentration of waste material in the
        > washout, etc. Brackets are mine and indicate word deletion, insertion
        > out of sequence, word substitution]
        >
        > Gerald
        >
        >
        > Work manual: Water-washable metal- and plastic-base [] plates for
        > letterpress...
        >
        > As a basic rule, chemical substances of too high a concentration must
        > be prevented from prolonged contact with skin, eyes, and mucous
        > membranes. This also applies to certain substances contained in the
        > unexposed [photopolymer] plate and to the wash-out liquid, in which
        > these substances may occur up to a max. concentration of 2.0 per cent
        > by weight.
        >
        > [The wash-out liquid is free of heavy metals and chlorinated
        > hydrocarbons. It contains only carbon in organic compounds. It can be
        > discharged into municipal sewage systems without any problems; no
        > solid matter will precipitate. The constituents of the waste water are
        > biologically degradable.]
        >
        > Extensive toxicological research has shown that after short-term
        > contact no consequences were observed. Prolonged contact, however, can
        > cause sensitive persons to develop rashes or swellings if the
        > following safety measures are not observed. Handling the print-ready
        > plates does not require any special safety precautions.
        >
        > Direct skin contact with unexposed plates and the wash-out liquid must
        > be avoided by wearing appropriate working clothes (protective gloves,
        > overalls, protective goggles if necessary). Any garments becoming wet
        > must be changed. Skin that has come into contact with any media must
        > be washed with large quantities of soap and water. As a prophylactic
        > measure, using a protective skin cream is advisable in any case. If
        > the handling of plates and processing equipment leads to any soiling
        > of the working environment, such traces must be removed. Direct
        > exposure to the eyes to UV light must be avoided.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
      • Frank Cabral
        Hello Tom I seem to be sensitive to the water after washout, my skin can become very chapped, so always wear vinyl gloves. I do the same for every press wash
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 4, 2001
          Hello Tom
          I seem to be sensitive to the water after washout, my skin can become very
          chapped, so always wear vinyl gloves. I do the same for every press wash
          up. I haven't noticed much fumes associated with the plate material I use
          the most.

          Frank
          in California


          Mark Attwood wrote:

          >
          >
          > Dear Polymer Fundis,
          >
          > I hand washout my polymer plates using a large brush, and put my hand
          > into
          > the water while doing this to turn the plate every so often for even
          > washout.
          >
          > I wondered if anyone knows if there is any health risk attached to this,
          > or
          > possible fumes from the plates?
          >
          >
          > Mark Attwood.
          >
          >
          > South Africa
          > mark@...
          >
          >
          > P.S. Fundi is a Zulu word meaning "someone who really knows"
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          ADVERTISEMENT
          [Click Here!]

          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • edinman
          I can t imagine polymer plates being particularly hazardous compared to all the other chemicals used in printing. I am particularly sensitive to photo
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 4, 2001
            I can't imagine polymer plates being particularly hazardous compared to all
            the other chemicals used in printing.
            I am particularly sensitive to photo developers containing metol--but
            polymer has never bothered me in the least. I suppose if you are really
            concernd about this there would certainly be no harm in wearing rubber
            gloves and installing adequate ventilation.
            Ed
          • Mark Attwood
            Hi Gerald, Thanks very much for the info. It is good to know that no other manufacturer makes any mention of toxicity. It is just difficult to get any info on
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 4, 2001
              Hi Gerald,

              Thanks very much for the info. It is good to know that no other manufacturer
              makes any mention of toxicity. It is just difficult to get any info on this
              in South Africa, so it is great to be able to discuss this sort of thing on
              this list.

              Those BASF plates really do stink. It's the reason I changed to the Jet
              plates. The BASF are easier to hand wash because you can see the red
              material more easily than the transparent Jet material, and know when to
              stop washing, but I would rather use the trickier ones than deal with the
              smell.


              regards,
              Mark.



              Mark Attwood

              The Artists' Press
              Box 623
              Newtown
              2113
              South Africa

              Tel. +27 11 836 5474
              fax. +27 11 836 6858
              mark@...


              ----------
              >From: Gerald Lange <bieler@...>
              >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Polymer toxicity?
              >Date: Thu, Oct 4, 2001, 7:37 am
              >

              > Dear Mark
              >
              > Actually, I don't think they are saying they are toxic. Note, no other
              > manufacturer actually has come out with such a statement, far as I can tell.
              > Basically, and I suspect this is true, they are saying some people might be
              > "sensitive" or react to continued exposure.
              >
              > I mentioned in a recent post how I thought BASF plates "stunk." They smell
              > awful. And they crud up the washout unit. I'm guessing there was a very subtle
              > transition between the "older technology" photopolymer and present-day
              > photopolymer (both Miraclon and BASF's nyloprint may be a bit "older" than say
              > the later Japanese developments) and my suspicions are that early nyloprint
              > material and most of Miraclon material may be of transition formulation.
              > Especially Miraclon, since it is so associated with liquid photopolymer
              > applications and techniques and the "older" chemical washout processes.
              > For example, Tim's trick with the talcum powder, was, at one time, almost a
              > requirement but this is now never mentioned in industrial reports on sheet
              > polymer processing, though often is when referring to liguid photopolymer.
              >
              > Use the gloves, please. If you are hand-washing this stuff, use gloves. Also,
              > BASF does recommend that you throw away those acetate cover sheets once they
              > are pulled off the raw material, and that you do not use them for any other
              > purpose.
              >
              > It would seem quite clear that finished material poses no threat, but that
              high
              > concentrations of raw material suspended in the wash are best avoided.
              >
              > Gerald
              >
              >
              >
              > Mark Attwood wrote:
              >>
              >> Hi Gerald,
              >>
              >> So reading between the lines BASF are saying that the washout solution may
              >> be toxic. I have found that the bASF plates give off a destinct odour which
              >> makes me feel a bit queezy and headachey, whereas the Jet brand does not.
              >>
              >> I will use gloves from now on when doing washout by hand.
              >>
              >> The BASF report says nothing about the fumes. Do you have any idea of that?
              >>
              >> Regards,
              >> Mark.
              >>
              >> Mark Attwood
              >>
              >> The Artists' Press
              >> Box 623
              >> Newtown
              >> 2113
              >> South Africa
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
            • Mark Attwood
              Hi Frank, I have recently started using surgical latex gloves for the washout. they are thin enough for me to be able to still feel the slimy or squeaky
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 4, 2001
                Hi Frank,

                I have recently started using surgical latex gloves for the washout. they
                are thin enough for me to be able to still "feel" the slimy or squeaky
                nature of the plate and to know when I get down to the metal.

                hope this helps,
                Mark.
                in South Africa


                Frank wrote:

                > Hello Tom
                > I seem to be sensitive to the water after washout, my skin can become very
                > chapped, so always wear vinyl gloves. I do the same for every press wash
                > up. I haven't noticed much fumes associated with the plate material I use
                > the most.
                >
                > Frank
                > in California
                >
                >
                > Mark Attwood wrote:
                >
                >>
                >>
                >> Dear Polymer Fundis,
                >>
                >> I hand washout my polymer plates using a large brush, and put my hand
                >> into
                >> the water while doing this to turn the plate every so often for even
                >> washout.
                >>
                >> I wondered if anyone knows if there is any health risk attached to this,
                >> or
                >> possible fumes from the plates?
                >>
                >>
                >> Mark Attwood.
                >>
                >>
                >> South Africa
                >> mark@...
                >>
                >>
                >> P.S. Fundi is a Zulu word meaning "someone who really knows"
                >>
                >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                > [Click Here!]
                >
                >>
                >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
              • Harold Kyle
                ... I suspect that no manufacturer _doesn t_ make a mention of toxicity. If they didn t, they would be very vulnerable to lawsuits related to a random allergic
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 5, 2001
                  >It is good to know that no other manufacturer
                  >makes any mention of toxicity.

                  I suspect that no manufacturer _doesn't_ make a mention of toxicity.
                  If they didn't, they would be very vulnerable to lawsuits related to
                  a random allergic reaction. This information isn't printed on the
                  back of each plate, of course, but on MSDSs. I don't have time to
                  quote any of the MSDSs I have laying around--electrician's about to
                  pull my plug--but you might check yours to see if it lists "Health
                  Hazard Data." Mine targets "acrylate sensitive persons"...?

                  Your plates may be manufactured differently than the ones we're
                  talking about on the list. If you have a fax machine, request an MSDS
                  for the plate you're using for information on its toxicity. If you
                  develop a bad reaction because of contact with polymer plates,
                  ignorance is no defense.

                  Harold
                • Mark Attwood
                  ... Thanks Harold. Mark Attwood mark@artistspress.co.za
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 7, 2001
                    Harold wrote:

                    > request an MSDS> for the plate you're using for information on its toxicity.

                    Thanks Harold.


                    Mark Attwood
                    mark@...
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