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Polymer toxicity?

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  • Mark Attwood
    Dear Polymer Fundis, I hand washout my polymer plates using a large brush, and put my hand into the water while doing this to turn the plate every so often for
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 3, 2001
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      Dear Polymer Fundis,

      I hand washout my polymer plates using a large brush, and put my hand into
      the water while doing this to turn the plate every so often for even
      washout.

      I wondered if anyone knows if there is any health risk attached to this, or
      possible fumes from the plates?


      Mark Attwood.


      South Africa
      mark@...


      P.S. Fundi is a Zulu word meaning "someone who really knows"
    • Gerald Lange
      Dear Mark and fundis This is the only printed report I have ever found on safety precautions. I ll put this in Files also. This is an industry report put out
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 3, 2001
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        Dear Mark and fundis

        This is the only printed report I have ever found on safety
        precautions. I'll put this in Files also. This is an industry report
        put out by BASF. A couple of considerations. First, this is
        essentially a disclaimer. Second, this is assuming industrial
        practices; heavy workload; high concentration of waste material in the
        washout, etc. Brackets are mine and indicate word deletion, insertion
        out of sequence, word substitution]

        Gerald


        Work manual: Water-washable metal- and plastic-base [] plates for
        letterpress...

        As a basic rule, chemical substances of too high a concentration must
        be prevented from prolonged contact with skin, eyes, and mucous
        membranes. This also applies to certain substances contained in the
        unexposed [photopolymer] plate and to the wash-out liquid, in which
        these substances may occur up to a max. concentration of 2.0 per cent
        by weight.

        [The wash-out liquid is free of heavy metals and chlorinated
        hydrocarbons. It contains only carbon in organic compounds. It can be
        discharged into municipal sewage systems without any problems; no
        solid matter will precipitate. The constituents of the waste water are
        biologically degradable.]

        Extensive toxicological research has shown that after short-term
        contact no consequences were observed. Prolonged contact, however, can
        cause sensitive persons to develop rashes or swellings if the
        following safety measures are not observed. Handling the print-ready
        plates does not require any special safety precautions.

        Direct skin contact with unexposed plates and the wash-out liquid must
        be avoided by wearing appropriate working clothes (protective gloves,
        overalls, protective goggles if necessary). Any garments becoming wet
        must be changed. Skin that has come into contact with any media must
        be washed with large quantities of soap and water. As a prophylactic
        measure, using a protective skin cream is advisable in any case. If
        the handling of plates and processing equipment leads to any soiling
        of the working environment, such traces must be removed. Direct
        exposure to the eyes to UV light must be avoided.
      • Gerald Lange
        Dear Mark Actually, I don t think they are saying they are toxic. Note, no other manufacturer actually has come out with such a statement, far as I can tell.
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 4, 2001
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          Dear Mark

          Actually, I don't think they are saying they are toxic. Note, no other
          manufacturer actually has come out with such a statement, far as I can tell.
          Basically, and I suspect this is true, they are saying some people might be
          "sensitive" or react to continued exposure.

          I mentioned in a recent post how I thought BASF plates "stunk." They smell
          awful. And they crud up the washout unit. I'm guessing there was a very subtle
          transition between the "older technology" photopolymer and present-day
          photopolymer (both Miraclon and BASF's nyloprint may be a bit "older" than say
          the later Japanese developments) and my suspicions are that early nyloprint
          material and most of Miraclon material may be of transition formulation.
          Especially Miraclon, since it is so associated with liquid photopolymer
          applications and techniques and the "older" chemical washout processes.
          For example, Tim's trick with the talcum powder, was, at one time, almost a
          requirement but this is now never mentioned in industrial reports on sheet
          polymer processing, though often is when referring to liguid photopolymer.

          Use the gloves, please. If you are hand-washing this stuff, use gloves. Also,
          BASF does recommend that you throw away those acetate cover sheets once they
          are pulled off the raw material, and that you do not use them for any other
          purpose.

          It would seem quite clear that finished material poses no threat, but that high
          concentrations of raw material suspended in the wash are best avoided.

          Gerald



          Mark Attwood wrote:
          >
          > Hi Gerald,
          >
          > So reading between the lines BASF are saying that the washout solution may
          > be toxic. I have found that the bASF plates give off a destinct odour which
          > makes me feel a bit queezy and headachey, whereas the Jet brand does not.
          >
          > I will use gloves from now on when doing washout by hand.
          >
          > The BASF report says nothing about the fumes. Do you have any idea of that?
          >
          > Regards,
          > Mark.
          >
          > Mark Attwood
          >
          > The Artists' Press
          > Box 623
          > Newtown
          > 2113
          > South Africa
        • Mark Attwood
          Hi Gerald, So reading between the lines BASF are saying that the washout solution may be toxic. I have found that the bASF plates give off a destinct odour
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 4, 2001
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            Hi Gerald,

            So reading between the lines BASF are saying that the washout solution may
            be toxic. I have found that the bASF plates give off a destinct odour which
            makes me feel a bit queezy and headachey, whereas the Jet brand does not.

            I will use gloves from now on when doing washout by hand.

            The BASF report says nothing about the fumes. Do you have any idea of that?

            Regards,
            Mark.



            Mark Attwood

            The Artists' Press
            Box 623
            Newtown
            2113
            South Africa

            Tel. +27 11 836 5474
            fax. +27 11 836 6858
            mark@...


            ----------
            >From: "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
            >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Polymer toxicity?
            >Date: Thu, Oct 4, 2001, 1:58 am
            >

            > Dear Mark and fundis
            >
            > This is the only printed report I have ever found on safety
            > precautions. I'll put this in Files also. This is an industry report
            > put out by BASF. A couple of considerations. First, this is
            > essentially a disclaimer. Second, this is assuming industrial
            > practices; heavy workload; high concentration of waste material in the
            > washout, etc. Brackets are mine and indicate word deletion, insertion
            > out of sequence, word substitution]
            >
            > Gerald
            >
            >
            > Work manual: Water-washable metal- and plastic-base [] plates for
            > letterpress...
            >
            > As a basic rule, chemical substances of too high a concentration must
            > be prevented from prolonged contact with skin, eyes, and mucous
            > membranes. This also applies to certain substances contained in the
            > unexposed [photopolymer] plate and to the wash-out liquid, in which
            > these substances may occur up to a max. concentration of 2.0 per cent
            > by weight.
            >
            > [The wash-out liquid is free of heavy metals and chlorinated
            > hydrocarbons. It contains only carbon in organic compounds. It can be
            > discharged into municipal sewage systems without any problems; no
            > solid matter will precipitate. The constituents of the waste water are
            > biologically degradable.]
            >
            > Extensive toxicological research has shown that after short-term
            > contact no consequences were observed. Prolonged contact, however, can
            > cause sensitive persons to develop rashes or swellings if the
            > following safety measures are not observed. Handling the print-ready
            > plates does not require any special safety precautions.
            >
            > Direct skin contact with unexposed plates and the wash-out liquid must
            > be avoided by wearing appropriate working clothes (protective gloves,
            > overalls, protective goggles if necessary). Any garments becoming wet
            > must be changed. Skin that has come into contact with any media must
            > be washed with large quantities of soap and water. As a prophylactic
            > measure, using a protective skin cream is advisable in any case. If
            > the handling of plates and processing equipment leads to any soiling
            > of the working environment, such traces must be removed. Direct
            > exposure to the eyes to UV light must be avoided.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
          • Frank Cabral
            Hello Tom I seem to be sensitive to the water after washout, my skin can become very chapped, so always wear vinyl gloves. I do the same for every press wash
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 4, 2001
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              Hello Tom
              I seem to be sensitive to the water after washout, my skin can become very
              chapped, so always wear vinyl gloves. I do the same for every press wash
              up. I haven't noticed much fumes associated with the plate material I use
              the most.

              Frank
              in California


              Mark Attwood wrote:

              >
              >
              > Dear Polymer Fundis,
              >
              > I hand washout my polymer plates using a large brush, and put my hand
              > into
              > the water while doing this to turn the plate every so often for even
              > washout.
              >
              > I wondered if anyone knows if there is any health risk attached to this,
              > or
              > possible fumes from the plates?
              >
              >
              > Mark Attwood.
              >
              >
              > South Africa
              > mark@...
              >
              >
              > P.S. Fundi is a Zulu word meaning "someone who really knows"
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT
              [Click Here!]

              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • edinman
              I can t imagine polymer plates being particularly hazardous compared to all the other chemicals used in printing. I am particularly sensitive to photo
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 4, 2001
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                I can't imagine polymer plates being particularly hazardous compared to all
                the other chemicals used in printing.
                I am particularly sensitive to photo developers containing metol--but
                polymer has never bothered me in the least. I suppose if you are really
                concernd about this there would certainly be no harm in wearing rubber
                gloves and installing adequate ventilation.
                Ed
              • Mark Attwood
                Hi Gerald, Thanks very much for the info. It is good to know that no other manufacturer makes any mention of toxicity. It is just difficult to get any info on
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 4, 2001
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                  Hi Gerald,

                  Thanks very much for the info. It is good to know that no other manufacturer
                  makes any mention of toxicity. It is just difficult to get any info on this
                  in South Africa, so it is great to be able to discuss this sort of thing on
                  this list.

                  Those BASF plates really do stink. It's the reason I changed to the Jet
                  plates. The BASF are easier to hand wash because you can see the red
                  material more easily than the transparent Jet material, and know when to
                  stop washing, but I would rather use the trickier ones than deal with the
                  smell.


                  regards,
                  Mark.



                  Mark Attwood

                  The Artists' Press
                  Box 623
                  Newtown
                  2113
                  South Africa

                  Tel. +27 11 836 5474
                  fax. +27 11 836 6858
                  mark@...


                  ----------
                  >From: Gerald Lange <bieler@...>
                  >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Polymer toxicity?
                  >Date: Thu, Oct 4, 2001, 7:37 am
                  >

                  > Dear Mark
                  >
                  > Actually, I don't think they are saying they are toxic. Note, no other
                  > manufacturer actually has come out with such a statement, far as I can tell.
                  > Basically, and I suspect this is true, they are saying some people might be
                  > "sensitive" or react to continued exposure.
                  >
                  > I mentioned in a recent post how I thought BASF plates "stunk." They smell
                  > awful. And they crud up the washout unit. I'm guessing there was a very subtle
                  > transition between the "older technology" photopolymer and present-day
                  > photopolymer (both Miraclon and BASF's nyloprint may be a bit "older" than say
                  > the later Japanese developments) and my suspicions are that early nyloprint
                  > material and most of Miraclon material may be of transition formulation.
                  > Especially Miraclon, since it is so associated with liquid photopolymer
                  > applications and techniques and the "older" chemical washout processes.
                  > For example, Tim's trick with the talcum powder, was, at one time, almost a
                  > requirement but this is now never mentioned in industrial reports on sheet
                  > polymer processing, though often is when referring to liguid photopolymer.
                  >
                  > Use the gloves, please. If you are hand-washing this stuff, use gloves. Also,
                  > BASF does recommend that you throw away those acetate cover sheets once they
                  > are pulled off the raw material, and that you do not use them for any other
                  > purpose.
                  >
                  > It would seem quite clear that finished material poses no threat, but that
                  high
                  > concentrations of raw material suspended in the wash are best avoided.
                  >
                  > Gerald
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Mark Attwood wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Hi Gerald,
                  >>
                  >> So reading between the lines BASF are saying that the washout solution may
                  >> be toxic. I have found that the bASF plates give off a destinct odour which
                  >> makes me feel a bit queezy and headachey, whereas the Jet brand does not.
                  >>
                  >> I will use gloves from now on when doing washout by hand.
                  >>
                  >> The BASF report says nothing about the fumes. Do you have any idea of that?
                  >>
                  >> Regards,
                  >> Mark.
                  >>
                  >> Mark Attwood
                  >>
                  >> The Artists' Press
                  >> Box 623
                  >> Newtown
                  >> 2113
                  >> South Africa
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                • Mark Attwood
                  Hi Frank, I have recently started using surgical latex gloves for the washout. they are thin enough for me to be able to still feel the slimy or squeaky
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 4, 2001
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                    Hi Frank,

                    I have recently started using surgical latex gloves for the washout. they
                    are thin enough for me to be able to still "feel" the slimy or squeaky
                    nature of the plate and to know when I get down to the metal.

                    hope this helps,
                    Mark.
                    in South Africa


                    Frank wrote:

                    > Hello Tom
                    > I seem to be sensitive to the water after washout, my skin can become very
                    > chapped, so always wear vinyl gloves. I do the same for every press wash
                    > up. I haven't noticed much fumes associated with the plate material I use
                    > the most.
                    >
                    > Frank
                    > in California
                    >
                    >
                    > Mark Attwood wrote:
                    >
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Dear Polymer Fundis,
                    >>
                    >> I hand washout my polymer plates using a large brush, and put my hand
                    >> into
                    >> the water while doing this to turn the plate every so often for even
                    >> washout.
                    >>
                    >> I wondered if anyone knows if there is any health risk attached to this,
                    >> or
                    >> possible fumes from the plates?
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Mark Attwood.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> South Africa
                    >> mark@...
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> P.S. Fundi is a Zulu word meaning "someone who really knows"
                    >>
                    >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > ADVERTISEMENT
                    > [Click Here!]
                    >
                    >>
                    >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                  • Harold Kyle
                    ... I suspect that no manufacturer _doesn t_ make a mention of toxicity. If they didn t, they would be very vulnerable to lawsuits related to a random allergic
                    Message 9 of 10 , Oct 5, 2001
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                      >It is good to know that no other manufacturer
                      >makes any mention of toxicity.

                      I suspect that no manufacturer _doesn't_ make a mention of toxicity.
                      If they didn't, they would be very vulnerable to lawsuits related to
                      a random allergic reaction. This information isn't printed on the
                      back of each plate, of course, but on MSDSs. I don't have time to
                      quote any of the MSDSs I have laying around--electrician's about to
                      pull my plug--but you might check yours to see if it lists "Health
                      Hazard Data." Mine targets "acrylate sensitive persons"...?

                      Your plates may be manufactured differently than the ones we're
                      talking about on the list. If you have a fax machine, request an MSDS
                      for the plate you're using for information on its toxicity. If you
                      develop a bad reaction because of contact with polymer plates,
                      ignorance is no defense.

                      Harold
                    • Mark Attwood
                      ... Thanks Harold. Mark Attwood mark@artistspress.co.za
                      Message 10 of 10 , Oct 7, 2001
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                        Harold wrote:

                        > request an MSDS> for the plate you're using for information on its toxicity.

                        Thanks Harold.


                        Mark Attwood
                        mark@...
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