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Re: [PPLetterpress] Expert fonts for idiots?

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  • Gerald Lange
    Katie Yes, this is essentially how you would do that. Except that you are not applying the expert style you are selecting the expert font. Same as you should
    Message 1 of 9 , May 1, 2003
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      Katie

      Yes, this is essentially how you would do that. Except that you are not
      "applying the expert style" you are selecting the expert font. Same as
      you should be doing, ahem, when you use an italic or bold version of a
      font. As much as a pain as this may seem, um, remember hand composition?

      Also, PostScript Type 1 fonts (one to another, even in the same
      "family") do not share kerning pairs so manual kerning or adjustment of
      word spaces is order when you are intermixing fonts and even if you are
      adjusting sizes of characters one to another.

      I don't find this kind of thing as laborious as a lot of folks might
      because I spent a great many years at the composing stand. I really
      enjoy working with computer typesetting not because it is easier or that
      I can perform whiz bang tricks, but because I can replicate and even
      greatly enhance the finer points of hand composition. Plus the really
      great advantage is you never, ever, have to distribute!

      Gerald


      Katie Harper wrote:

      >Someone mentioned expert fonts, and I have a question because I think I must
      >not be using them correctly. In the case where one is using upper and lower
      >case type and wants to use old style (ie, lowercase) numerals, it appears
      >that the only way to do this is to separately select the numbers (or cap for
      >swash, etc.) and apply the expert style. Is this the right procedure? It's
      >rather a pain, especially with a large block of text.
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Katie Harper
      Hear, hear! Katie Plus the really
      Message 2 of 9 , May 1, 2003
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        Hear, hear!

        Katie


        Plus the really
        > great advantage is you never, ever, have to distribute!
        >
        > Gerald
        >
        >
      • Dan Franklin
        If you re comfortable mixing fonts in Fontographer or FontLab, you can make super-old-style text fonts by gleaning characters from the Expert set, for
        Message 3 of 9 , May 1, 2003
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          If you're comfortable mixing fonts in Fontographer or FontLab, you
          can make super-old-style text fonts by gleaning characters from the
          Expert set, for instance, by substituting old-style figures and
          adding ff, ffi, ffl ligatures and ct, st ligatures in unused or
          little-used character positions. (Be sure that you always put the
          same character (say, ffl) in the same keyboard position (say, ¥) in
          fonts that you create.)

          If you use Quark, you still have to search/replace the ligatures. You
          can do this in Applescript with a fairly simple script, along the
          lines of ...

          for every text where it is "ffl"
          set text to "¥"

          With patience and care, you can even create a font with old-style
          figures that horizontally align (for numbered lists, etc.). Here you
          are changing widths and sidebearings, but being methodical can
          produce excellent results.

          If you're skittish about using Fontographer but not skittish about
          using Applescript, you can tell the Quark document to go to an Expert
          font for certain characters, like ...

          for every text where it is "ffl"
          set text to "Z"
          if the font of text is Bembo Bold
          set font to Bembo BoldExpert
          else if the font of text is Bembo Italic
          set font to Bembo ItalicExpert

          Such a script can be used over and over by using variables for the
          font names and declaring them only once at the top of the script. A
          script can execute all these changes in less than a second on a
          good-sized chapter. And if you want to decide on a case-by-case basis
          whether to use, say, an st ligature (think "Christmastide"--do you
          really want 2 st ligs there?), you can pause the script and type Y
          for change and N for no-change.

          Of course, if you use Adobe InDesign and have OpenType fonts, you can
          turn old-style figures on and off at will or whimsy.
        • Gerald Lange
          Dan Thanks for the info about Apple Scripts. ... For folks who are a bit comfortable, I ve put a PDF of a simple FL font modification sequence (letterpress
          Message 4 of 9 , May 1, 2003
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            Dan

            Thanks for the info about Apple Scripts.

            > If you're comfortable mixing fonts in Fontographer or FontLab....

            For folks who are a bit comfortable, I've put a PDF of a "simple" FL
            font modification sequence (letterpress configuration) in the How-To
            Files. I'm much more familiar with FOG but would appreciate input from
            anyone regarding the FL sequence. It works, but constructive criticism
            would be helpful.

            Thanks

            Gerald
          • Jessica Spring
            Katie-- A trick I ve used for large jobs is to set the text then use the find/replace feature for each numeral. It s much faster than doing them individually.
            Message 5 of 9 , May 2, 2003
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              Katie--
              A trick I've used for large jobs is to set the text then use the
              find/replace feature for each numeral. It's much faster than doing them
              individually.
              --Jessica

              > From: Katie Harper <knharper@...>
              > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 21:38:11 -0400
              > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Expert fonts for idiots?
              >
              > Someone mentioned expert fonts, and I have a question because I think I must
              > not be using them correctly. In the case where one is using upper and lower
              > case type and wants to use old style (ie, lowercase) numerals, it appears
              > that the only way to do this is to separately select the numbers (or cap for
              > swash, etc.) and apply the expert style. Is this the right procedure? It's
              > rather a pain, especially with a large block of text.
              >
              > From my research, my own guess is that this IS the way of things, and that
              > (for one thing) is why Open Type is supposed to be so much better, since the
              > special characters are (or will be) accessible automatically...??
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Katie Harper
              > Ars Brevis Press
              > Cincinnati, OH
              > 513-233-9588
              > http://www.arsbrevispress.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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            • Carole Aldrich
              Katie One thing you could do is set up a character style for the expert font, assign it a keystroke (one not likely to be used by anything else, then switch to
              Message 6 of 9 , May 2, 2003
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                Katie

                One thing you could do is set up a character style for the expert
                font, assign it a keystroke (one not likely to be used by anything
                else, then switch to the style, type the character, switch back to
                the text style. I know you can do this in Quark, and believe in
                InDesign also. It would be sort of like the old days when fonts and
                font sizes and styles were entered from the keyboard with commands in
                the old phototypesetting equipment.
                --
                Carole M Aldrich
                Voice 909.625.7722
                Fax 909.625.9822
                carolealdrich@...

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • funquie
                That s the problem with expert fonts. So many bits of type, and only so few ASCII codes to spread them around under. And since most people these days don t
                Message 7 of 9 , May 2, 2003
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                  That's the problem with expert fonts. So many bits of type, and only
                  so few ASCII codes to spread them around under. And since most people
                  these days don't like "old style" numerals, it's almost mandatory for
                  typehouses to include both sorts of numbers (lining and old-style).

                  I have Expert sets for Poetica, Garamond, and Caslon. In all these
                  sets, there are lining and old-style figures. And to get the old-style
                  figs, I must apply a different font to the numbers.

                  It's a pain, but no more of a pain than hand-setting type in two or
                  three different styles (bold, ital, roman, old-style, etc.)

                  We (typographers and designers) have gotten VERY lazy since the advent
                  of computers, and when a minor glitch like this comes around, it seems
                  like a MAJOR deal. In the days of lead type, if your font had lining
                  figures and you wanted old style, you'd have to order them from a
                  foundry, IF they were available, then sit back and wait for a few
                  weeks while they shipped, most likely via train...

                  --Richard Creighton
                  "Dreamer Press"
                  Martinsburg WV
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