Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [PPLetterpress] Expert fonts for idiots?

Expand Messages
  • Bruce Kennett Studio
    ... i m sure others will weigh in with a much more detailed explanation, but i d say it depends on the fonts. for example, i have sabon and galliard with o.s.
    Message 1 of 9 , May 1, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      >it appears
      >that the only way to do this is to separately select the numbers (or cap for
      >swash, etc.) and apply the expert style. Is this the right procedure? It's
      >rather a pain, especially with a large block of text.

      i'm sure others will weigh in with a much more detailed explanation,
      but i'd say it depends on the fonts. for example, i have sabon and
      galliard with o.s. figs as a standard part of the rom font, but with
      many other book types i have to do just as you describe. and isn't it
      annoying that jobs and wozniak allowed for fi and fl but didn't think
      ffi, ffi, and ff mattered? so we have some inthe main font and others
      only in the expert. grrrr.

      one workaround i've used with great success for longer runs of copy
      is to do a search-and-replace in xpress, changing one numeral at a
      time, and specifying rom vs ital, point size, etc. with this approach
      you can do a 256-page book in just a few minutes, although you have
      to be methodical. one of those amazing powers of the computer: you
      sit back for a few moments as the machine goes b-r-r-r-r-r-r-p! and
      says, "1,278 instances changed."

      i only know xpress (and passport) so i'm not sure but i imagine the
      other apps such as indesign and pagemaker do this as well

      many years ago i also tried swapping the numerals in fontographer,
      putting o.s. figs in where the lining figs had been, and thus making
      a new font, but i was unsteady enough with that application (or maybe
      it was fontmonger) that i decided to just stick with the
      search-and-replace thing. too many issues with the font i.d. numbers,
      messed up side bearings and so forth, in a case where i knew just
      enough to be dangerous.

      bruce
      --


      +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      Bruce Kennett Studio
      1234 West Side Road
      North Conway NH 03860
      Phone 603-447-2338
      Fax 603-447-5510
      www.brucekennettstudio.com
      +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    • Gerald Lange
      Katie Yes, this is essentially how you would do that. Except that you are not applying the expert style you are selecting the expert font. Same as you should
      Message 2 of 9 , May 1, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        Katie

        Yes, this is essentially how you would do that. Except that you are not
        "applying the expert style" you are selecting the expert font. Same as
        you should be doing, ahem, when you use an italic or bold version of a
        font. As much as a pain as this may seem, um, remember hand composition?

        Also, PostScript Type 1 fonts (one to another, even in the same
        "family") do not share kerning pairs so manual kerning or adjustment of
        word spaces is order when you are intermixing fonts and even if you are
        adjusting sizes of characters one to another.

        I don't find this kind of thing as laborious as a lot of folks might
        because I spent a great many years at the composing stand. I really
        enjoy working with computer typesetting not because it is easier or that
        I can perform whiz bang tricks, but because I can replicate and even
        greatly enhance the finer points of hand composition. Plus the really
        great advantage is you never, ever, have to distribute!

        Gerald


        Katie Harper wrote:

        >Someone mentioned expert fonts, and I have a question because I think I must
        >not be using them correctly. In the case where one is using upper and lower
        >case type and wants to use old style (ie, lowercase) numerals, it appears
        >that the only way to do this is to separately select the numbers (or cap for
        >swash, etc.) and apply the expert style. Is this the right procedure? It's
        >rather a pain, especially with a large block of text.
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Katie Harper
        Hear, hear! Katie Plus the really
        Message 3 of 9 , May 1, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Hear, hear!

          Katie


          Plus the really
          > great advantage is you never, ever, have to distribute!
          >
          > Gerald
          >
          >
        • Dan Franklin
          If you re comfortable mixing fonts in Fontographer or FontLab, you can make super-old-style text fonts by gleaning characters from the Expert set, for
          Message 4 of 9 , May 1, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            If you're comfortable mixing fonts in Fontographer or FontLab, you
            can make super-old-style text fonts by gleaning characters from the
            Expert set, for instance, by substituting old-style figures and
            adding ff, ffi, ffl ligatures and ct, st ligatures in unused or
            little-used character positions. (Be sure that you always put the
            same character (say, ffl) in the same keyboard position (say, ¥) in
            fonts that you create.)

            If you use Quark, you still have to search/replace the ligatures. You
            can do this in Applescript with a fairly simple script, along the
            lines of ...

            for every text where it is "ffl"
            set text to "¥"

            With patience and care, you can even create a font with old-style
            figures that horizontally align (for numbered lists, etc.). Here you
            are changing widths and sidebearings, but being methodical can
            produce excellent results.

            If you're skittish about using Fontographer but not skittish about
            using Applescript, you can tell the Quark document to go to an Expert
            font for certain characters, like ...

            for every text where it is "ffl"
            set text to "Z"
            if the font of text is Bembo Bold
            set font to Bembo BoldExpert
            else if the font of text is Bembo Italic
            set font to Bembo ItalicExpert

            Such a script can be used over and over by using variables for the
            font names and declaring them only once at the top of the script. A
            script can execute all these changes in less than a second on a
            good-sized chapter. And if you want to decide on a case-by-case basis
            whether to use, say, an st ligature (think "Christmastide"--do you
            really want 2 st ligs there?), you can pause the script and type Y
            for change and N for no-change.

            Of course, if you use Adobe InDesign and have OpenType fonts, you can
            turn old-style figures on and off at will or whimsy.
          • Gerald Lange
            Dan Thanks for the info about Apple Scripts. ... For folks who are a bit comfortable, I ve put a PDF of a simple FL font modification sequence (letterpress
            Message 5 of 9 , May 1, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              Dan

              Thanks for the info about Apple Scripts.

              > If you're comfortable mixing fonts in Fontographer or FontLab....

              For folks who are a bit comfortable, I've put a PDF of a "simple" FL
              font modification sequence (letterpress configuration) in the How-To
              Files. I'm much more familiar with FOG but would appreciate input from
              anyone regarding the FL sequence. It works, but constructive criticism
              would be helpful.

              Thanks

              Gerald
            • Jessica Spring
              Katie-- A trick I ve used for large jobs is to set the text then use the find/replace feature for each numeral. It s much faster than doing them individually.
              Message 6 of 9 , May 2, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                Katie--
                A trick I've used for large jobs is to set the text then use the
                find/replace feature for each numeral. It's much faster than doing them
                individually.
                --Jessica

                > From: Katie Harper <knharper@...>
                > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 21:38:11 -0400
                > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Expert fonts for idiots?
                >
                > Someone mentioned expert fonts, and I have a question because I think I must
                > not be using them correctly. In the case where one is using upper and lower
                > case type and wants to use old style (ie, lowercase) numerals, it appears
                > that the only way to do this is to separately select the numbers (or cap for
                > swash, etc.) and apply the expert style. Is this the right procedure? It's
                > rather a pain, especially with a large block of text.
                >
                > From my research, my own guess is that this IS the way of things, and that
                > (for one thing) is why Open Type is supposed to be so much better, since the
                > special characters are (or will be) accessible automatically...??
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Katie Harper
                > Ars Brevis Press
                > Cincinnati, OH
                > 513-233-9588
                > http://www.arsbrevispress.com
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ? To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                > ? Encountering problems? contact:
                > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                > ? To unsubscribe:
                > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • Carole Aldrich
                Katie One thing you could do is set up a character style for the expert font, assign it a keystroke (one not likely to be used by anything else, then switch to
                Message 7 of 9 , May 2, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Katie

                  One thing you could do is set up a character style for the expert
                  font, assign it a keystroke (one not likely to be used by anything
                  else, then switch to the style, type the character, switch back to
                  the text style. I know you can do this in Quark, and believe in
                  InDesign also. It would be sort of like the old days when fonts and
                  font sizes and styles were entered from the keyboard with commands in
                  the old phototypesetting equipment.
                  --
                  Carole M Aldrich
                  Voice 909.625.7722
                  Fax 909.625.9822
                  carolealdrich@...

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • funquie
                  That s the problem with expert fonts. So many bits of type, and only so few ASCII codes to spread them around under. And since most people these days don t
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 2, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    That's the problem with expert fonts. So many bits of type, and only
                    so few ASCII codes to spread them around under. And since most people
                    these days don't like "old style" numerals, it's almost mandatory for
                    typehouses to include both sorts of numbers (lining and old-style).

                    I have Expert sets for Poetica, Garamond, and Caslon. In all these
                    sets, there are lining and old-style figures. And to get the old-style
                    figs, I must apply a different font to the numbers.

                    It's a pain, but no more of a pain than hand-setting type in two or
                    three different styles (bold, ital, roman, old-style, etc.)

                    We (typographers and designers) have gotten VERY lazy since the advent
                    of computers, and when a minor glitch like this comes around, it seems
                    like a MAJOR deal. In the days of lead type, if your font had lining
                    figures and you wanted old style, you'd have to order them from a
                    foundry, IF they were available, then sit back and wait for a few
                    weeks while they shipped, most likely via train...

                    --Richard Creighton
                    "Dreamer Press"
                    Martinsburg WV
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.