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Re: [PPLetterpress] Jumping image on Flatbed press?

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  • Charles Jones
    If the plate is well locked in, not moving on the base, then logically it has to be a problem with the paper. Problems I have had of a similar nature have
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 28 7:33 AM
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      If the plate is well locked in, not moving on the base, then logically it has to be a problem with the paper. Problems I have had of a similar nature have been: paper not cut straight, stiff paper flopping or shifting, side guides.
      I have improvised rubber bands on the cylinder for stiff papers, added a quad or other stop to the feed board close to the end of the paper; If the side register varies the smallest amount on the first run, it is hard to get the subsequent ones to match. 
      What you describe sounds more like a shift of your plate/vase. Large solids require pressure and the cylinder and paper hitting the plate would move it away, or rather in the same direction as the cylinder.

      all in all it sounds like the ghost in the machine, good luck, 

      Charlie Jones
      LaNana Creek Press


      On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:54 AM, Mirka <mirka_hokkanen@...> wrote:

       

      Hi everyone, I have a problem with a flatbed press, Korrex, model Stuttgart. I've printed several editions with multiple colors up to 4 off of it since it arrived in my studio last summer. This was the first time, I had something happen that I couldn't figure out. I'll try to explain the best I can:

      I was printing the 3rd color for a print (the plate was polymer) with the plate fairly far down the press bed. Everything was lined up great, and I had printed about 10 for the real edition, when all of a sudden, the image would print 5mm higher and about 1mm over. I tried on several scrap sheets, and it kept doing it, so I repositioned the plate and started printing again. Another 10 or so prints later, the image starts printing about 3 mm lower consistently, so I reposition it again. From there on, it seemed to print pretty much at the same spot, with minor jumping around. Now, I know the plate did not move on the press, it was attached to a big base, with lines drawn around, so I know where it was originally. I also had no problem with printing or registration with the previous two colors, which were larger areas of linocuts in the middle of the image/paper. I did my best to hold the paper around the cylinder consistently, but that did not seem to be the problem either. The paper was also clamped under the gripper feet properly, so that was not it either.

      I am just baffled, what could have caused the whole press to seem to shift like that? Any thoughts? I am still fairly new to letterpress, but have been a fine art printer for about 15 years, so registration and working on presses is familiar to me. There are a lot more moving parts on the Korrex though, so I have a lot to learn on it. I am not printing commercial work, but "fine art" prints. My current series is pushing the limits on how large I can print on it, so I don't know if that has something to do with it? Thanks for any input. :)

      Mirka from Pica Doodle Press


    • Gerald Lange
      Mirka Yes, note that paper can stretch especially if previous imaging has distorted the paper. This is more likely with longer sheets. Gerald Giampa used to
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 28 12:05 PM
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        Mirka

        Yes, note that paper can stretch especially if previous imaging has distorted the paper. This is more likely with longer sheets. Gerald Giampa used to stress awareness of paper stretching as part of his instructions for printing on a Heidelberg cylinder.

        Another possibility is plate stretching, not just "traveling" but actually stretching. It has been reported that this can occur with severe impression on long sheets using polyester-backed plates.

        Another thing not often considered is that cylinder proof presses were meant to print thin proof sheets, not the thick stock that is often run through them today. They were also not meant for editioning.

        Gerald


        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Charles Jones <charlesdjones@...> wrote:
        >
        > If the plate is well locked in, not moving on the base, then logically it has to be a problem with the paper. Problems I have had of a similar nature have been: paper not cut straight, stiff paper flopping or shifting, side guides.
        > I have improvised rubber bands on the cylinder for stiff papers, added a quad or other stop to the feed board close to the end of the paper; If the side register varies the smallest amount on the first run, it is hard to get the subsequent ones to match.
        > What you describe sounds more like a shift of your plate/vase. Large solids require pressure and the cylinder and paper hitting the plate would move it away, or rather in the same direction as the cylinder.
        >
        > all in all it sounds like the ghost in the machine, good luck,
        >
        > Charlie Jones
        > LaNana Creek Press
        >
        >
        > On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:54 AM, Mirka <mirka_hokkanen@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Hi everyone, I have a problem with a flatbed press, Korrex, model Stuttgart. I've printed several editions with multiple colors up to 4 off of it since it arrived in my studio last summer. This was the first time, I had something happen that I couldn't figure out. I'll try to explain the best I can:
        > >
        > > I was printing the 3rd color for a print (the plate was polymer) with the plate fairly far down the press bed. Everything was lined up great, and I had printed about 10 for the real edition, when all of a sudden, the image would print 5mm higher and about 1mm over. I tried on several scrap sheets, and it kept doing it, so I repositioned the plate and started printing again. Another 10 or so prints later, the image starts printing about 3 mm lower consistently, so I reposition it again. From there on, it seemed to print pretty much at the same spot, with minor jumping around. Now, I know the plate did not move on the press, it was attached to a big base, with lines drawn around, so I know where it was originally. I also had no problem with printing or registration with the previous two colors, which were larger areas of linocuts in the middle of the image/paper. I did my best to hold the paper around the cylinder consistently, but that did not seem to be the problem either. The paper was also clamped under the gripper feet properly, so that was not it either.
        > >
        > > I am just baffled, what could have caused the whole press to seem to shift like that? Any thoughts? I am still fairly new to letterpress, but have been a fine art printer for about 15 years, so registration and working on presses is familiar to me. There are a lot more moving parts on the Korrex though, so I have a lot to learn on it. I am not printing commercial work, but "fine art" prints. My current series is pushing the limits on how large I can print on it, so I don't know if that has something to do with it? Thanks for any input. :)
        > >
        > > Mirka from Pica Doodle Press
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Peter Fraterdeus
        ... Although, original Vandercook marketing material from the 1950s-60s(?) mentions the presses being used by fine artists for short editions. I can t cite a
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 28 1:41 PM
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          On 28 Apr 2013, at 2:05 PM, Gerald Lange wrote:

          >
          > Another thing not often considered is that cylinder proof presses were meant to print thin proof sheets, not the thick stock that is often run through them today. They were also not meant for editioning.
          >
          > Gerald

          Although, original Vandercook marketing material from the 1950s-60s(?) mentions the presses being used by fine artists for short editions.

          I can't cite a specific source at the moment (maybe somebody else can verify?), but I remember distinctly noting that point in a brochure I read some years ago. I'll have to dig around and see if I can find it again.

          Regarding the topic at hand, I was going to ask about the stock, whether it's dry or dampened, and thickness, as well as the nature of the forms being printed. Paper will certainly expand or contract across the grain, and this can certainly be a cause of misregistration if the humidity changes. However, for it to change every few sheets does seem rather peculiar and maddening.

          And as my good friend Tim Fay says "Now you know why printers drink too much" ;-)

          P

          >
          >
          > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Charles Jones <charlesdjones@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> If the plate is well locked in, not moving on the base, then logically it has to be a problem with the paper. Problems I have had of a similar nature have been: paper not cut straight, stiff paper flopping or shifting, side guides.
          >> I have improvised rubber bands on the cylinder for stiff papers, added a quad or other stop to the feed board close to the end of the paper; If the side register varies the smallest amount on the first run, it is hard to get the subsequent ones to match.
          >> What you describe sounds more like a shift of your plate/vase. Large solids require pressure and the cylinder and paper hitting the plate would move it away, or rather in the same direction as the cylinder.
          >>
          >> all in all it sounds like the ghost in the machine, good luck,
          >>
          >> Charlie Jones
          >> LaNana Creek Press
          >>
          >>
          >> On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:54 AM, Mirka <mirka_hokkanen@...> wrote:
          >>
          >>> Hi everyone, I have a problem with a flatbed press, Korrex, model Stuttgart. I've printed several editions with multiple colors up to 4 off of it since it arrived in my studio last summer. This was the first time, I had something happen that I couldn't figure out. I'll try to explain the best I can:
          >>>
          >>> I was printing the 3rd color for a print (the plate was polymer) with the plate fairly far down the press bed. Everything was lined up great, and I had printed about 10 for the real edition, when all of a sudden, the image would print 5mm higher and about 1mm over. I tried on several scrap sheets, and it kept doing it, so I repositioned the plate and started printing again. Another 10 or so prints later, the image starts printing about 3 mm lower consistently, so I reposition it again. From there on, it seemed to print pretty much at the same spot, with minor jumping around. Now, I know the plate did not move on the press, it was attached to a big base, with lines drawn around, so I know where it was originally. I also had no problem with printing or registration with the previous two colors, which were larger areas of linocuts in the middle of the image/paper. I did my best to hold the paper around the cylinder consistently, but that did not seem to be the problem either. The
          > paper was also clamped under the gripper feet properly, so that was not it either.
          >>>
          >>> I am just baffled, what could have caused the whole press to seem to shift like that? Any thoughts? I am still fairly new to letterpress, but have been a fine art printer for about 15 years, so registration and working on presses is familiar to me. There are a lot more moving parts on the Korrex though, so I have a lot to learn on it. I am not printing commercial work, but "fine art" prints. My current series is pushing the limits on how large I can print on it, so I don't know if that has something to do with it? Thanks for any input. :)
          >>>
          >>> Mirka from Pica Doodle Press
          >>>
          >>>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Bill
          What kind of plate are you using? And what kind of base? If you are using a magnetic base this problem could easily happen. Good luck Bill Big Wheel Press Sent
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 28 2:49 PM
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            What kind of plate are you using? And what kind of base? If you are using a magnetic base this problem could easily happen.

            Good luck

            Bill
            Big Wheel Press

            Sent from my iPad

            On Apr 28, 2013, at 4:41 PM, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:

             


            On 28 Apr 2013, at 2:05 PM, Gerald Lange wrote:

            >
            > Another thing not often considered is that cylinder proof presses were meant to print thin proof sheets, not the thick stock that is often run through them today. They were also not meant for editioning.
            >
            > Gerald

            Although, original Vandercook marketing material from the 1950s-60s(?) mentions the presses being used by fine artists for short editions.

            I can't cite a specific source at the moment (maybe somebody else can verify?), but I remember distinctly noting that point in a brochure I read some years ago. I'll have to dig around and see if I can find it again.

            Regarding the topic at hand, I was going to ask about the stock, whether it's dry or dampened, and thickness, as well as the nature of the forms being printed. Paper will certainly expand or contract across the grain, and this can certainly be a cause of misregistration if the humidity changes. However, for it to change every few sheets does seem rather peculiar and maddening.

            And as my good friend Tim Fay says "Now you know why printers drink too much" ;-)

            P

            >
            >
            > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Charles Jones <charlesdjones@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> If the plate is well locked in, not moving on the base, then logically it has to be a problem with the paper. Problems I have had of a similar nature have been: paper not cut straight, stiff paper flopping or shifting, side guides.
            >> I have improvised rubber bands on the cylinder for stiff papers, added a quad or other stop to the feed board close to the end of the paper; If the side register varies the smallest amount on the first run, it is hard to get the subsequent ones to match.
            >> What you describe sounds more like a shift of your plate/vase. Large solids require pressure and the cylinder and paper hitting the plate would move it away, or rather in the same direction as the cylinder.
            >>
            >> all in all it sounds like the ghost in the machine, good luck,
            >>
            >> Charlie Jones
            >> LaNana Creek Press
            >>
            >>
            >> On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:54 AM, Mirka <mirka_hokkanen@...> wrote:
            >>
            >>> Hi everyone, I have a problem with a flatbed press, Korrex, model Stuttgart. I've printed several editions with multiple colors up to 4 off of it since it arrived in my studio last summer. This was the first time, I had something happen that I couldn't figure out. I'll try to explain the best I can:
            >>>
            >>> I was printing the 3rd color for a print (the plate was polymer) with the plate fairly far down the press bed. Everything was lined up great, and I had printed about 10 for the real edition, when all of a sudden, the image would print 5mm higher and about 1mm over. I tried on several scrap sheets, and it kept doing it, so I repositioned the plate and started printing again. Another 10 or so prints later, the image starts printing about 3 mm lower consistently, so I reposition it again. From there on, it seemed to print pretty much at the same spot, with minor jumping around. Now, I know the plate did not move on the press, it was attached to a big base, with lines drawn around, so I know where it was originally. I also had no problem with printing or registration with the previous two colors, which were larger areas of linocuts in the middle of the image/paper. I did my best to hold the paper around the cylinder consistently, but that did not seem to be the probl em either. The
            > paper was also clamped under the gripper feet properly, so that was not it either.
            >>>
            >>> I am just baffled, what could have caused the whole press to seem to shift like that? Any thoughts? I am still fairly new to letterpress, but have been a fine art printer for about 15 years, so registration and working on presses is familiar to me. There are a lot more moving parts on the Korrex though, so I have a lot to learn on it. I am not printing commercial work, but "fine art" prints. My current series is pushing the limits on how large I can print on it, so I don't know if that has something to do with it? Thanks for any input. :)
            >>>
            >>> Mirka from Pica Doodle Press
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >

          • Gerald Lange
            I ve not seen anything like this in the Vandercook promotional literature. Perhaps you were thinking of this:
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 28 2:52 PM
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              I've not seen anything like this in the Vandercook promotional
              literature. Perhaps you were thinking of this:

              http://vandercookpress.info/vanderblog/literature/articles/lange-edition/

              Gerald


              On 4/28/13 1:41 PM, Peter Fraterdeus wrote:
              > On 28 Apr 2013, at 2:05 PM, Gerald Lange wrote:
              >
              >> Another thing not often considered is that cylinder proof presses were meant to print thin proof sheets, not the thick stock that is often run through them today. They were also not meant for editioning.
              >>
              >> Gerald
              > Although, original Vandercook marketing material from the 1950s-60s(?) mentions the presses being used by fine artists for short editions.
              >
              > I can't cite a specific source at the moment (maybe somebody else can verify?), but I remember distinctly noting that point in a brochure I read some years ago. I'll have to dig around and see if I can find it again.
              >
              > Regarding the topic at hand, I was going to ask about the stock, whether it's dry or dampened, and thickness, as well as the nature of the forms being printed. Paper will certainly expand or contract across the grain, and this can certainly be a cause of misregistration if the humidity changes. However, for it to change every few sheets does seem rather peculiar and maddening.
              >
              > And as my good friend Tim Fay says "Now you know why printers drink too much" ;-)
              >
              > P
              >
              >>
              >> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Charles Jones<charlesdjones@...> wrote:
              >>> If the plate is well locked in, not moving on the base, then logically it has to be a problem with the paper. Problems I have had of a similar nature have been: paper not cut straight, stiff paper flopping or shifting, side guides.
              >>> I have improvised rubber bands on the cylinder for stiff papers, added a quad or other stop to the feed board close to the end of the paper; If the side register varies the smallest amount on the first run, it is hard to get the subsequent ones to match.
              >>> What you describe sounds more like a shift of your plate/vase. Large solids require pressure and the cylinder and paper hitting the plate would move it away, or rather in the same direction as the cylinder.
              >>>
              >>> all in all it sounds like the ghost in the machine, good luck,
              >>>
              >>> Charlie Jones
              >>> LaNana Creek Press
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:54 AM, Mirka<mirka_hokkanen@...> wrote:
              >>>
              >>>> Hi everyone, I have a problem with a flatbed press, Korrex, model Stuttgart. I've printed several editions with multiple colors up to 4 off of it since it arrived in my studio last summer. This was the first time, I had something happen that I couldn't figure out. I'll try to explain the best I can:
              >>>>
              >>>> I was printing the 3rd color for a print (the plate was polymer) with the plate fairly far down the press bed. Everything was lined up great, and I had printed about 10 for the real edition, when all of a sudden, the image would print 5mm higher and about 1mm over. I tried on several scrap sheets, and it kept doing it, so I repositioned the plate and started printing again. Another 10 or so prints later, the image starts printing about 3 mm lower consistently, so I reposition it again. From there on, it seemed to print pretty much at the same spot, with minor jumping around. Now, I know the plate did not move on the press, it was attached to a big base, with lines drawn around, so I know where it was originally. I also had no problem with printing or registration with the previous two colors, which were larger areas of linocuts in the middle of the image/paper. I did my best to hold the paper around the cylinder consistently, but that did not seem to be the problem either. The
              >> paper was also clamped under the gripper feet properly, so that was not it either.
              >>>> I am just baffled, what could have caused the whole press to seem to shift like that? Any thoughts? I am still fairly new to letterpress, but have been a fine art printer for about 15 years, so registration and working on presses is familiar to me. There are a lot more moving parts on the Korrex though, so I have a lot to learn on it. I am not printing commercial work, but "fine art" prints. My current series is pushing the limits on how large I can print on it, so I don't know if that has something to do with it? Thanks for any input. :)
              >>>>
              >>>> Mirka from Pica Doodle Press
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> ------------------------------------
              >>
              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Gerald Lange
              That depends upon the type of magnetic base one is using. I ve never experience travel on a Bunting Magnetic Flatbase but I sure have on Patmags. By the way,
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 28 3:41 PM
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                That depends upon the type of magnetic base one is using. I've never experience travel on a Bunting Magnetic Flatbase but I sure have on Patmags. By the way, travel can occur with small pieces on a non-magentic flatbase. That, I have seen.

                Gerald

                On 4/28/13 2:49 PM, Bill wrote:
                What kind of plate are you using? And what kind of base? If you are using a magnetic base this problem could easily happen.

                Good luck

                Bill
                Big Wheel Press

                Sent from my iPad

                On Apr 28, 2013, at 4:41 PM, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:

                 


                On 28 Apr 2013, at 2:05 PM, Gerald Lange wrote:

                >
                > Another thing not often considered is that cylinder proof presses were meant to print thin proof sheets, not the thick stock that is often run through them today. They were also not meant for editioning.
                >
                > Gerald

                Although, original Vandercook marketing material from the 1950s-60s(?) mentions the presses being used by fine artists for short editions.

                I can't cite a specific source at the moment (maybe somebody else can verify?), but I remember distinctly noting that point in a brochure I read some years ago. I'll have to dig around and see if I can find it again.

                Regarding the topic at hand, I was going to ask about the stock, whether it's dry or dampened, and thickness, as well as the nature of the forms being printed. Paper will certainly expand or contract across the grain, and this can certainly be a cause of misregistration if the humidity changes. However, for it to change every few sheets does seem rather peculiar and maddening.

                And as my good friend Tim Fay says "Now you know why printers drink too much" ;-)

                P

                >
                >
                > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Charles Jones <charlesdjones@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> If the plate is well locked in, not moving on the base, then logically it has to be a problem with the paper. Problems I have had of a similar nature have been: paper not cut straight, stiff paper flopping or shifting, side guides.
                >> I have improvised rubber bands on the cylinder for stiff papers, added a quad or other stop to the feed board close to the end of the paper; If the side register varies the smallest amount on the first run, it is hard to get the subsequent ones to match.
                >> What you describe sounds more like a shift of your plate/vase. Large solids require pressure and the cylinder and paper hitting the plate would move it away, or rather in the same direction as the cylinder.
                >>
                >> all in all it sounds like the ghost in the machine, good luck,
                >>
                >> Charlie Jones
                >> LaNana Creek Press
                >>
                >>
                >> On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:54 AM, Mirka <mirka_hokkanen@...> wrote:
                >>
                >>> Hi everyone, I have a problem with a flatbed press, Korrex, model Stuttgart. I've printed several editions with multiple colors up to 4 off of it since it arrived in my studio last summer. This was the first time, I had something happen that I couldn't figure out. I'll try to explain the best I can:
                >>>
                >>> I was printing the 3rd color for a print (the plate was polymer) with the plate fairly far down the press bed. Everything was lined up great, and I had printed about 10 for the real edition, when all of a sudden, the image would print 5mm higher and about 1mm over. I tried on several scrap sheets, and it kept doing it, so I repositioned the plate and started printing again. Another 10 or so prints later, the image starts printing about 3 mm lower consistently, so I reposition it again. From there on, it seemed to print pretty much at the same spot, with minor jumping around. Now, I know the plate did not move on the press, it was attached to a big base, with lines drawn around, so I know where it was originally. I also had no problem with printing or registration with the previous two colors, which were larger areas of linocuts in the middle of the image/paper. I did my best to hold the paper around the cylinder consistently, but that did not seem to be the probl em either. The
                > paper was also clamped under the gripper feet properly, so that was not it either.
                >>>
                >>> I am just baffled, what could have caused the whole press to seem to shift like that? Any thoughts? I am still fairly new to letterpress, but have been a fine art printer for about 15 years, so registration and working on presses is familiar to me. There are a lot more moving parts on the Korrex though, so I have a lot to learn on it. I am not printing commercial work, but "fine art" prints. My current series is pushing the limits on how large I can print on it, so I don't know if that has something to do with it? Thanks for any input. :)
                >>>
                >>> Mirka from Pica Doodle Press
                >>>
                >>>
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >


              • erik spiekermann
                ... it can ideed. What also happens on a Korrex (I have 2 of them, a small Nürnberg – 35x58, ie 14 x23 , and a large Frankfurt – 86x61, ie 34 x24 ) is
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 29 12:32 AM
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                  On 28.04.2013, at 21:05, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:

                  > paper can stretch
                  it can ideed. What also happens on a Korrex (I have 2 of them, a small Nürnberg – 35x58, ie 14"x23", and a large Frankfurt – 86x61, ie 34"x24") is that the top sheet of the packing has a little give, moving the actual paper down a little at the moment of contact with the forme. I have rubber blankets directly on the cylinder and their rough surface keeps the packing in place, even if it isn't locked properly.

                  In this particular case, however, this could also be down to the cylinder slipping as it starts running over the form. The Korrex has diagonal gears guiding the cylinder, so no lateral movement is possible, but if the type or polymer plate is too high, it'll move the cylinder out of its bearings a little, causing slip.

                  If the type, on the other hand, is too low and the packing too thick, distance between the travel of the cylinder and the bed could be out of sync. The packing on the cylinder needs to be 1.2mm (0.472"), and European type is a little higher than the US standard. If the press hasn't been adjusted, you should put a piece of card underneath the plate on the bed of the press to bring it up to European height of 0.928 in.
                  (23.567 mm) as opposed to US 0.9186 in,(23.33244 mm). That .23 mm difference, if added to the packing instead can cause problems between the circumference of the cylinder and the distance it travels.

                  Sorry to be so teutonically fastidious, but I have to deal with a Vandercook in the US and my Korrexes in Germany and come across those issues all the time when trying to use European type in the US and American type in Germany.

                  e


                  | Prof. Dr. Erik Spiekermann

                  | www.edenspiekermann.com
                  | www.spiekermann.com
                  | @espiekermann

                  | Niederwallstrasse 32
                  | 10117 Berlin
                  | T +49.30.2064 9090
                  | F +49.30.2064 9091

                  | 30 Cove Road
                  | Belvedere, CA 94920
                  | T +1.415.350 3314

                  | 47 Mildmay Grove North
                  | London N1 4PN
                  | T +44 20 3119 0097
                • Eric
                  ... Perhaps you don t consider this printing sufficiently fine or consequential, but William Cheney wriites of printing a book on a Vandercook in the 30s or
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 29 8:38 AM
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                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Gerald Lange <Bieler@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I've not seen anything like this in the Vandercook promotional
                    > literature. Perhaps you were thinking of this:
                    >
                    > http://vandercookpress.info/vanderblog/literature/articles/lange-edition/

                    Perhaps you don't consider this printing sufficiently fine or consequential, but William Cheney wriites of printing a book on a Vandercook in the '30s or was it '40s. See his UCLA oral history, or his book The Natural History of the Typestickers of Los Angeles.
                    Book printing on proof presses was done before the '50s.
                    Eric Holub, SF
                  • Eric
                    This all sounds to me like erratic feeding, especially when lateral movement is mentioned. On a real production cylinder press there is a brush that holds the
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 29 8:46 AM
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                      This all sounds to me like erratic feeding, especially when lateral movement is mentioned.
                      On a real production cylinder press there is a brush that holds the sheet against into the printing nip. The Vandercook just has a couple ineffective springs (the fact the cylinder reverses direction prevents more positive sheet controls) and so the operator has to hold the sheet against the guide points accurately, and also must hold the sheet against the cylinder in a consistant manner. Any change will affect register.
                      Another factor is open space on the bed. If the entire bed is filled with plate base ahead of the image, then the sheet will be supported consistantly, but if there is blank area that has lower furniture, then the sheet can sag and the print position will be lengthened and/or shifted sideways. In some jobs the tail can be taped to the topsheet for control. Personally I prefer to use high furniture in blank areas so the sheet can't sag.
                      Eric Holub, SF
                    • Gerald Lange
                      Eric Since the time of its writing I have heard of such isolated instances and have acquired the Cheney book. In doing the research for the article way back
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 29 9:17 AM
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                        Eric

                        Since the time of its writing I have heard of such isolated instances
                        and have acquired the Cheney book. In doing the research for the article
                        way back when, I was searching for continuum/influence, though had I
                        known about Cheney at the time I would have mentioned him. Back in the
                        late 70s and well into the 80s there was significant hostility on the
                        part of trained printers to the Vandercook movement. To some extent the
                        article was meant to show that editioning on the Vandercook had
                        historical merit.

                        I'm at the beginning of an oral history interview at UCLA myself! Very
                        interesting procedure.

                        Gerald

                        On 4/29/13 8:38 AM, Eric wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Gerald Lange<Bieler@...> wrote:
                        >> I've not seen anything like this in the Vandercook promotional
                        >> literature. Perhaps you were thinking of this:
                        >>
                        >> http://vandercookpress.info/vanderblog/literature/articles/lange-edition/
                        >
                        > Perhaps you don't consider this printing sufficiently fine or consequential, but William Cheney wriites of printing a book on a Vandercook in the '30s or was it '40s. See his UCLA oral history, or his book The Natural History of the Typestickers of Los Angeles.
                        > Book printing on proof presses was done before the '50s.
                        > Eric Holub, SF
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • erik spiekermann
                        ... The Korrex has 2 brushes that can be adjusted along the width of the cylinder and against it, depending on the thickness and flexibility of the paper. e
                        Message 11 of 19 , Apr 29 9:59 AM
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                          On 29.04.2013, at 17:46, "Eric" <Megalonyx@...> wrote:

                          > On a real production cylinder press there is a brush that holds the sheet against into the printing nip.

                          The Korrex has 2 brushes that can be adjusted along the width of the cylinder and against it, depending on the thickness and flexibility of the paper.

                          e
                        • Mirka
                          Thanks for all the input. I know it wasn t the base or plate moving, and it was not paper stretching. I know what that looks like (printing on 300g lettra,
                          Message 12 of 19 , Apr 29 12:23 PM
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                            Thanks for all the input. I know it wasn't the base or plate moving, and it was not paper stretching. I know what that looks like (printing on 300g lettra, dry). The first two images were linocuts, but linework, so they were not large areas of color, even though they were large plates. I thought about the paper being thick and flopping down on the last image, but then that would not explain why it consistently printed one way for a while, and after I rolled the cylinder back, it would consistently start printing on a different spot. I could tell towards the end of the run (60 sheets of paper) that I could affect the image shifting a little up or down on paper depending how I held it , but not a big leap and not consistently. I could control it. After the first time the image shifted, I pulled one of the first prints through again to see, and the same plate printed in a totally different spot. I dont know if somehow the cylinder can shift on its gears when it gets to the end and clunks so it wont print on the way back?

                            So I have a more peculiar setup- I am using unmounted linoleum, that has been mounted on a large piece of Corian with Boxcars polymer plate film adhesive. I'm using the corian to get the right height with the unmounted linoleum. Boxcar/patmag bases are too thick. The last image was a small paragraph of text as a polymer plate at the bottom of the image, also mounted with the adhesive. I had drawn a line around the plate on the white corian, so I know it did not move and I checked the base and it was where it should be. Here is a link to my FB gallery for the project. You can see the image, the press and the linoleum/corian locked on the press in the pictures. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Huoneentaulu-Projekti/153360398097574?id=153360398097574&sk=photos_stream . Please dont judge me! ;) I know I am doing something different than most of you seasoned (letterpress)printers out there.

                            So i guess my question is, is it possible for the cylinder to somehow shift in between prints? It just worries me, because if it happens in the middle of a printing, I have no way of registering the following colors and could ruin the whole edition. I am working in reduction linocuts so I cant go back and print more of the first color. I am printing about 70 sheets to begin with, in hopes of having editions around 50 in the end. I try to be very gentle with the press. I sweet talk to it and tuck it to bed every night.



                            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Charles Jones <charlesdjones@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > If the plate is well locked in, not moving on the base, then logically it has to be a problem with the paper. Problems I have had of a similar nature have been: paper not cut straight, stiff paper flopping or shifting, side guides.
                            > I have improvised rubber bands on the cylinder for stiff papers, added a quad or other stop to the feed board close to the end of the paper; If the side register varies the smallest amount on the first run, it is hard to get the subsequent ones to match.
                            > What you describe sounds more like a shift of your plate/vase. Large solids require pressure and the cylinder and paper hitting the plate would move it away, or rather in the same direction as the cylinder.
                            >
                            > all in all it sounds like the ghost in the machine, good luck,
                            >
                            > Charlie Jones
                            > LaNana Creek Press
                            >
                            >
                            > On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:54 AM, Mirka <mirka_hokkanen@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > Hi everyone, I have a problem with a flatbed press, Korrex, model Stuttgart. I've printed several editions with multiple colors up to 4 off of it since it arrived in my studio last summer. This was the first time, I had something happen that I couldn't figure out. I'll try to explain the best I can:
                            > >
                            > > I was printing the 3rd color for a print (the plate was polymer) with the plate fairly far down the press bed. Everything was lined up great, and I had printed about 10 for the real edition, when all of a sudden, the image would print 5mm higher and about 1mm over. I tried on several scrap sheets, and it kept doing it, so I repositioned the plate and started printing again. Another 10 or so prints later, the image starts printing about 3 mm lower consistently, so I reposition it again. From there on, it seemed to print pretty much at the same spot, with minor jumping around. Now, I know the plate did not move on the press, it was attached to a big base, with lines drawn around, so I know where it was originally. I also had no problem with printing or registration with the previous two colors, which were larger areas of linocuts in the middle of the image/paper. I did my best to hold the paper around the cylinder consistently, but that did not seem to be the problem either. The paper was also clamped under the gripper feet properly, so that was not it either.
                            > >
                            > > I am just baffled, what could have caused the whole press to seem to shift like that? Any thoughts? I am still fairly new to letterpress, but have been a fine art printer for about 15 years, so registration and working on presses is familiar to me. There are a lot more moving parts on the Korrex though, so I have a lot to learn on it. I am not printing commercial work, but "fine art" prints. My current series is pushing the limits on how large I can print on it, so I don't know if that has something to do with it? Thanks for any input. :)
                            > >
                            > > Mirka from Pica Doodle Press
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • Bill
                            Old presses can lose adjustment. Is this the press that was recently for sale in Lithuania? If is is, they were selling to more up to a larger and possibly
                            Message 13 of 19 , Apr 29 2:07 PM
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                              Old presses can lose adjustment.  Is this the press that was recently for sale in Lithuania?  If is is, they were selling to more up to a larger and possibly more accurate press.  

                              I would also throw up a red flag with the corian. This material can compress.

                              Good luck

                              Bill
                              Big Wheel Press

                              Sent from my iPad

                              On Apr 29, 2013, at 3:23 PM, "Mirka" <mirka_hokkanen@...> wrote:

                               

                              Thanks for all the input. I know it wasn't the base or plate moving, and it was not paper stretching. I know what that looks like (printing on 300g lettra, dry). The first two images were linocuts, but linework, so they were not large areas of color, even though they were large plates. I thought about the paper being thick and flopping down on the last image, but then that would not explain why it consistently printed one way for a while, and after I rolled the cylinder back, it would consistently start printing on a different spot. I could tell towards the end of the run (60 sheets of paper) that I could affect the image shifting a little up or down on paper depending how I held it , but not a big leap and not consistently. I could control it. After the first time the image shifted, I pulled one of the first prints through again to see, and the same plate printed in a totally different spot. I dont know if somehow the cylinder can shift on its gears when it gets to the end and clunks so it wont print on the way back?

                              So I have a more peculiar setup- I am using unmounted linoleum, that has been mounted on a large piece of Corian with Boxcars polymer plate film adhesive. I'm using the corian to get the right height with the unmounted linoleum. Boxcar/patmag bases are too thick. The last image was a small paragraph of text as a polymer plate at the bottom of the image, also mounted with the adhesive. I had drawn a line around the plate on the white corian, so I know it did not move and I checked the base and it was where it should be. Here is a link to my FB gallery for the project. You can see the image, the press and the linoleum/corian locked on the press in the pictures. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Huoneentaulu-Projekti/153360398097574?id=153360398097574&sk=photos_stream . Please dont judge me! ;) I know I am doing something different than most of you seas oned (letterpress)printers out there.

                              So i guess my question is, is it possible for the cylinder to somehow shift in between prints? It just worries me, because if it happens in the middle of a printing, I have no way of registering the following colors and could ruin the whole edition. I am working in reduction linocuts so I cant go back and print more of the first color. I am printing about 70 sheets to begin with, in hopes of having editions around 50 in the end. I try to be very gentle with the press. I sweet talk to it and tuck it to bed every night.

                              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Charles Jones <charlesdjones@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > If the plate is well locked in, not moving on the base, then logically it has to be a problem with the paper. Problems I have had of a similar nature have been: paper not cut straight, stiff paper flopping or shifting, side guides.
                              > I have improvised rubber bands on the cylinder for stiff papers, added a quad or other stop to the feed board close to the end of the paper; If the side register varies the smallest amount on the first run, it is hard to get the subsequent ones to match.
                              > What you describe sounds more like a shift of your plate/vase. Large solids require pressure and the cylinder and paper hitting the plate would move it away, or rather in the same direction as the cylinder.
                              >
                              > all in all it sounds like the ghost in the machine, good luck,
                              >
                              > Charlie Jones
                              > LaNana Creek Press
                              >
                              >
                              > On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:54 AM, Mirka <mirka_hokkanen@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > Hi everyone, I have a problem with a flatbed press, Korrex, model Stuttgart. I've printed several editions with multiple colors up to 4 off of it since it arrived in my studio last summer. This was the first time, I had something happen that I couldn't figure out. I'll try to explain the best I can:
                              > >
                              > > I was printing the 3rd color for a print (the plate was polymer) with the plate fairly far down the press bed. Everything was lined up great, and I had printed about 10 for the real edition, when all of a sudden, the image would print 5mm higher and about 1mm over. I tried on several scrap sheets, and it kept doing it, so I repositioned the plate and started printing again. Another 10 or so prints later, the image starts printing about 3 mm lower consistently, so I reposition it again. From there on, it seemed to print pretty much at the same spot, with minor jumping around. Now, I know the plate did not move on the press, it was attached to a big base, with lines drawn around, so I know where it was originally. I also had no problem with printing or registration with the previous two colors, which were larger areas of linocuts in the middle of the image/paper. I did my best to hold the paper around the cylinder consistently, but that did not seem to be the problem either. The paper was also clamped under the gripper feet properly, so that was not it either.
                              > >
                              > > I am just baffled, what could have caused the whole press to seem to shift like that? Any thoughts? I am still fairly new to letterpress, but have been a fine art printer for about 15 years, so registration and working on presses is familiar to me. There are a lot more moving parts on the Korrex though, so I have a lot to learn on it. I am not printing commercial work, but "fine art" prints. My current series is pushing the limits on how large I can print on it, so I don't know if that has something to do with it? Thanks for any input. :)
                              > >
                              > > Mirka from Pica Doodle Press
                              > >
                              > >
                              >

                            • celene
                              Hello, I am not nearly as expert as all the folks who have posted some great observations here, but to follow Erik s line of thought and suggestion, if you
                              Message 14 of 19 , Apr 29 6:40 PM
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                                Hello,

                                I am not nearly as expert as all the folks who have posted some great observations here, but to follow Erik's line of thought and suggestion, if you have left paper to trim off on the side edges of your paper, you could put a type high rail in (or two rails, one on each side of your printing area, running from the head of the press bed, toward the deadline/foot, all the way to where your plate is positioned). It would ink and print on the paper, but it is an alternative to high furniture or another plate in the bed for holding the paper still against the cylinder.

                                Because I am still really learning how to print, I am not sure if using rails is a reasonable method to solve this sort of challenge . . . I too have encountered both consistently printing off-register (after printing in register) and the randomness of each sheet being slightly different, and in both instances, adding at least one rail has made a difference for me.

                                Best wishes for a solution!

                                Celene



                                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <Megalonyx@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > This all sounds to me like erratic feeding, especially when lateral movement is mentioned.
                                > On a real production cylinder press there is a brush that holds the sheet against into the printing nip. The Vandercook just has a couple ineffective springs (the fact the cylinder reverses direction prevents more positive sheet controls) and so the operator has to hold the sheet against the guide points accurately, and also must hold the sheet against the cylinder in a consistant manner. Any change will affect register.
                                > Another factor is open space on the bed. If the entire bed is filled with plate base ahead of the image, then the sheet will be supported consistantly, but if there is blank area that has lower furniture, then the sheet can sag and the print position will be lengthened and/or shifted sideways. In some jobs the tail can be taped to the topsheet for control. Personally I prefer to use high furniture in blank areas so the sheet can't sag.
                                > Eric Holub, SF
                                >
                              • sukibunny73
                                I too am a bit of a newbie, but regarding the boxcar adhesive on corian, I ve done something similar with plywood, but beware of the linoleum shifting! I had a
                                Message 15 of 19 , Apr 30 9:25 AM
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                                  I too am a bit of a newbie, but regarding the boxcar adhesive on corian, I've done something similar with plywood, but beware of the linoleum shifting! I had a large two color image that started sliding around (which of course wasn't noticed until I started printing the second color). I've switched to a stronger adhesive (or glue) for my linoleum now.

                                  ~Chris

                                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Mirka" <mirka_hokkanen@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for all the input. I know it wasn't the base or plate moving, and it was not paper stretching. I know what that looks like (printing on 300g lettra, dry). The first two images were linocuts, but linework, so they were not large areas of color, even though they were large plates. I thought about the paper being thick and flopping down on the last image, but then that would not explain why it consistently printed one way for a while, and after I rolled the cylinder back, it would consistently start printing on a different spot. I could tell towards the end of the run (60 sheets of paper) that I could affect the image shifting a little up or down on paper depending how I held it , but not a big leap and not consistently. I could control it. After the first time the image shifted, I pulled one of the first prints through again to see, and the same plate printed in a totally different spot. I dont know if somehow the cylinder can shift on its gears when it gets to the end and clunks so it wont print on the way back?
                                  >
                                  > So I have a more peculiar setup- I am using unmounted linoleum, that has been mounted on a large piece of Corian with Boxcars polymer plate film adhesive. I'm using the corian to get the right height with the unmounted linoleum. Boxcar/patmag bases are too thick. The last image was a small paragraph of text as a polymer plate at the bottom of the image, also mounted with the adhesive. I had drawn a line around the plate on the white corian, so I know it did not move and I checked the base and it was where it should be. Here is a link to my FB gallery for the project. You can see the image, the press and the linoleum/corian locked on the press in the pictures. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Huoneentaulu-Projekti/153360398097574?id=153360398097574&sk=photos_stream . Please dont judge me! ;) I know I am doing something different than most of you seasoned (letterpress)printers out there.
                                  >
                                  > So i guess my question is, is it possible for the cylinder to somehow shift in between prints? It just worries me, because if it happens in the middle of a printing, I have no way of registering the following colors and could ruin the whole edition. I am working in reduction linocuts so I cant go back and print more of the first color. I am printing about 70 sheets to begin with, in hopes of having editions around 50 in the end. I try to be very gentle with the press. I sweet talk to it and tuck it to bed every night.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Charles Jones <charlesdjones@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > If the plate is well locked in, not moving on the base, then logically it has to be a problem with the paper. Problems I have had of a similar nature have been: paper not cut straight, stiff paper flopping or shifting, side guides.
                                  > > I have improvised rubber bands on the cylinder for stiff papers, added a quad or other stop to the feed board close to the end of the paper; If the side register varies the smallest amount on the first run, it is hard to get the subsequent ones to match.
                                  > > What you describe sounds more like a shift of your plate/vase. Large solids require pressure and the cylinder and paper hitting the plate would move it away, or rather in the same direction as the cylinder.
                                  > >
                                  > > all in all it sounds like the ghost in the machine, good luck,
                                  > >
                                  > > Charlie Jones
                                  > > LaNana Creek Press
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:54 AM, Mirka <mirka_hokkanen@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > Hi everyone, I have a problem with a flatbed press, Korrex, model Stuttgart. I've printed several editions with multiple colors up to 4 off of it since it arrived in my studio last summer. This was the first time, I had something happen that I couldn't figure out. I'll try to explain the best I can:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I was printing the 3rd color for a print (the plate was polymer) with the plate fairly far down the press bed. Everything was lined up great, and I had printed about 10 for the real edition, when all of a sudden, the image would print 5mm higher and about 1mm over. I tried on several scrap sheets, and it kept doing it, so I repositioned the plate and started printing again. Another 10 or so prints later, the image starts printing about 3 mm lower consistently, so I reposition it again. From there on, it seemed to print pretty much at the same spot, with minor jumping around. Now, I know the plate did not move on the press, it was attached to a big base, with lines drawn around, so I know where it was originally. I also had no problem with printing or registration with the previous two colors, which were larger areas of linocuts in the middle of the image/paper. I did my best to hold the paper around the cylinder consistently, but that did not seem to be the problem either. The paper was also clamped under the gripper feet properly, so that was not it either.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I am just baffled, what could have caused the whole press to seem to shift like that? Any thoughts? I am still fairly new to letterpress, but have been a fine art printer for about 15 years, so registration and working on presses is familiar to me. There are a lot more moving parts on the Korrex though, so I have a lot to learn on it. I am not printing commercial work, but "fine art" prints. My current series is pushing the limits on how large I can print on it, so I don't know if that has something to do with it? Thanks for any input. :)
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Mirka from Pica Doodle Press
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Mirka
                                  Yes, it is the press from Lithuania. They had some deal with a trucking company, so I got it to Germany for next to nothing. I printed a 4 color reduction
                                  Message 16 of 19 , May 1, 2013
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                                    Yes, it is the press from Lithuania. They had some deal with a trucking company, so I got it to Germany for next to nothing. I printed a 4 color reduction linocut off it last year and several other things, and it registered beautifully, so I hope that was not a reason why they sold it. The press was set up with rails on either side when it arrived, but I removed them for this last print because of image/paper size.

                                    I'll keep an eye out for compression on the Corian. So far its holding up well. I am not doing a super impression, and the linoleum is squishy, so hope that keeps it from altering. Unmounted linoleum is not the most even material to begin with, so I already account for that.

                                    I wasn't able to use rails with this print, since my paper size was to the max width of the press. But I will make my design to print smaller the next time, and the rail would be a good idea. Maybe also get some thinner paper.

                                    Chris I have a tip for you if you want to print linoleum on a piece of plywood. What I did was use a nice piece of wood, not the cheapest stuff, and use 3M spray adhesive on it to attach a sheet of mylar to it. Use glue on both surfaces. Then attach your linoleum to it with the same stuff, only spraying the back of your linoleum so you can peel it off when done. I printed reduction cuts like this on proofing presses and etching presses and did not have issues with moving around. That way I also could draw on the mylar the positioning of my plate and paper and be able to erase it and use again. I did a blog post about it in 2010: http://mirka-h.blogspot.de/2010/11/linocut-registration-jig.html

                                    Thanks everyone. I'll try the rails next print. It seems like a good option. Since I have nothing else to print larger with in the middle or rural SW-Germany. :)

                                    Mirka

                                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Bill <nohogallery@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Old presses can lose adjustment. Is this the press that was recently for sale in Lithuania? If is is, they were selling to more up to a larger and possibly more accurate press.
                                    >
                                    > I would also throw up a red flag with the corian. This material can compress.
                                    >
                                    > Good luck
                                    >
                                    > Bill
                                    > Big Wheel Press
                                    >
                                    > Sent from my iPad
                                    >
                                    > On Apr 29, 2013, at 3:23 PM, "Mirka" <mirka_hokkanen@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > Thanks for all the input. I know it wasn't the base or plate moving, and it was not paper stretching. I know what that looks like (printing on 300g lettra, dry). The first two images were linocuts, but linework, so they were not large areas of color, even though they were large plates. I thought about the paper being thick and flopping down on the last image, but then that would not explain why it consistently printed one way for a while, and after I rolled the cylinder back, it would consistently start printing on a different spot. I could tell towards the end of the run (60 sheets of paper) that I could affect the image shifting a little up or down on paper depending how I held it , but not a big leap and not consistently. I could control it. After the first time the image shifted, I pulled one of the first prints through again to see, and the same plate printed in a totally different spot. I dont know if somehow the cylinder can shift on its gears when it gets to the end and clunks so it wont print on the way back?
                                    > >
                                    > > So I have a more peculiar setup- I am using unmounted linoleum, that has been mounted on a large piece of Corian with Boxcars polymer plate film adhesive. I'm using the corian to get the right height with the unmounted linoleum. Boxcar/patmag bases are too thick. The last image was a small paragraph of text as a polymer plate at the bottom of the image, also mounted with the adhesive. I had drawn a line around the plate on the white corian, so I know it did not move and I checked the base and it was where it should be. Here is a link to my FB gallery for the project. You can see the image, the press and the linoleum/corian locked on the press in the pictures. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Huoneentaulu-Projekti/153360398097574?id=153360398097574&sk=photos_stream . Please dont judge me! ;) I know I am doing something different than most of you seas oned (letterpress)printers out there.
                                    > >
                                    > > So i guess my question is, is it possible for the cylinder to somehow shift in between prints? It just worries me, because if it happens in the middle of a printing, I have no way of registering the following colors and could ruin the whole edition. I am working in reduction linocuts so I cant go back and print more of the first color. I am printing about 70 sheets to begin with, in hopes of having editions around 50 in the end. I try to be very gentle with the press. I sweet talk to it and tuck it to bed every night.
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Charles Jones <charlesdjones@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > If the plate is well locked in, not moving on the base, then logically it has to be a problem with the paper. Problems I have had of a similar nature have been: paper not cut straight, stiff paper flopping or shifting, side guides.
                                    > > > I have improvised rubber bands on the cylinder for stiff papers, added a quad or other stop to the feed board close to the end of the paper; If the side register varies the smallest amount on the first run, it is hard to get the subsequent ones to match.
                                    > > > What you describe sounds more like a shift of your plate/vase. Large solids require pressure and the cylinder and paper hitting the plate would move it away, or rather in the same direction as the cylinder.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > all in all it sounds like the ghost in the machine, good luck,
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Charlie Jones
                                    > > > LaNana Creek Press
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:54 AM, Mirka <mirka_hokkanen@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > > Hi everyone, I have a problem with a flatbed press, Korrex, model Stuttgart. I've printed several editions with multiple colors up to 4 off of it since it arrived in my studio last summer. This was the first time, I had something happen that I couldn't figure out. I'll try to explain the best I can:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I was printing the 3rd color for a print (the plate was polymer) with the plate fairly far down the press bed. Everything was lined up great, and I had printed about 10 for the real edition, when all of a sudden, the image would print 5mm higher and about 1mm over. I tried on several scrap sheets, and it kept doing it, so I repositioned the plate and started printing again. Another 10 or so prints later, the image starts printing about 3 mm lower consistently, so I reposition it again. From there on, it seemed to print pretty much at the same spot, with minor jumping around. Now, I know the plate did not move on the press, it was attached to a big base, with lines drawn around, so I know where it was originally. I also had no problem with printing or registration with the previous two colors, which were larger areas of linocuts in the middle of the image/paper. I did my best to hold the paper around the cylinder consistently, but that did not seem to be the problem either. The paper was also clamped under the gripper feet properly, so that was not it either.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I am just baffled, what could have caused the whole press to seem to shift like that? Any thoughts? I am still fairly new to letterpress, but have been a fine art printer for about 15 years, so registration and working on presses is familiar to me. There are a lot more moving parts on the Korrex though, so I have a lot to learn on it. I am not printing commercial work, but "fine art" prints. My current series is pushing the limits on how large I can print on it, so I don't know if that has something to do with it? Thanks for any input. :)
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Mirka from Pica Doodle Press
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • erik spiekermann
                                    ... Mirka, in Germany you can still get plate mounting tape (Klischeeklebeband or asemointiteippi in Finnish), which is double-sided tape, 310mm (A4 oversize)
                                    Message 17 of 19 , May 1, 2013
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                                      On 01.05.2013, at 12:57, "Mirka" <mirka_hokkanen@...> wrote:

                                      > attach your linoleum

                                      Mirka,

                                      in Germany you can still get plate mounting tape (Klischeeklebeband or asemointiteippi in Finnish), which is double-sided tape, 310mm (A4 oversize) wide and either 0.1 or 0.2mm thick. I use it to mount magnesium or polymer plates to aluminium furniture. Magnetic bases are not used here very much. The tape is called DuploFlex and plates mounted with it do not creep.

                                      e
                                    • sukibunny73
                                      Thanks for the tip- I ll check it out! Chris
                                      Message 18 of 19 , May 2, 2013
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                                        Thanks for the tip- I'll check it out!

                                        Chris

                                        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Mirka" <mirka_hokkanen@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Yes, it is the press from Lithuania. They had some deal with a trucking company, so I got it to Germany for next to nothing. I printed a 4 color reduction linocut off it last year and several other things, and it registered beautifully, so I hope that was not a reason why they sold it. The press was set up with rails on either side when it arrived, but I removed them for this last print because of image/paper size.
                                        >
                                        > I'll keep an eye out for compression on the Corian. So far its holding up well. I am not doing a super impression, and the linoleum is squishy, so hope that keeps it from altering. Unmounted linoleum is not the most even material to begin with, so I already account for that.
                                        >
                                        > I wasn't able to use rails with this print, since my paper size was to the max width of the press. But I will make my design to print smaller the next time, and the rail would be a good idea. Maybe also get some thinner paper.
                                        >
                                        > Chris I have a tip for you if you want to print linoleum on a piece of plywood. What I did was use a nice piece of wood, not the cheapest stuff, and use 3M spray adhesive on it to attach a sheet of mylar to it. Use glue on both surfaces. Then attach your linoleum to it with the same stuff, only spraying the back of your linoleum so you can peel it off when done. I printed reduction cuts like this on proofing presses and etching presses and did not have issues with moving around. That way I also could draw on the mylar the positioning of my plate and paper and be able to erase it and use again. I did a blog post about it in 2010: http://mirka-h.blogspot.de/2010/11/linocut-registration-jig.html
                                        >
                                        > Thanks everyone. I'll try the rails next print. It seems like a good option. Since I have nothing else to print larger with in the middle or rural SW-Germany. :)
                                        >
                                        > Mirka
                                        >
                                        > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Bill <nohogallery@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Old presses can lose adjustment. Is this the press that was recently for sale in Lithuania? If is is, they were selling to more up to a larger and possibly more accurate press.
                                        > >
                                        > > I would also throw up a red flag with the corian. This material can compress.
                                        > >
                                        > > Good luck
                                        > >
                                        > > Bill
                                        > > Big Wheel Press
                                        > >
                                        > > Sent from my iPad
                                        > >
                                        > > On Apr 29, 2013, at 3:23 PM, "Mirka" <mirka_hokkanen@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > > Thanks for all the input. I know it wasn't the base or plate moving, and it was not paper stretching. I know what that looks like (printing on 300g lettra, dry). The first two images were linocuts, but linework, so they were not large areas of color, even though they were large plates. I thought about the paper being thick and flopping down on the last image, but then that would not explain why it consistently printed one way for a while, and after I rolled the cylinder back, it would consistently start printing on a different spot. I could tell towards the end of the run (60 sheets of paper) that I could affect the image shifting a little up or down on paper depending how I held it , but not a big leap and not consistently. I could control it. After the first time the image shifted, I pulled one of the first prints through again to see, and the same plate printed in a totally different spot. I dont know if somehow the cylinder can shift on its gears when it gets to the end and clunks so it wont print on the way back?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > So I have a more peculiar setup- I am using unmounted linoleum, that has been mounted on a large piece of Corian with Boxcars polymer plate film adhesive. I'm using the corian to get the right height with the unmounted linoleum. Boxcar/patmag bases are too thick. The last image was a small paragraph of text as a polymer plate at the bottom of the image, also mounted with the adhesive. I had drawn a line around the plate on the white corian, so I know it did not move and I checked the base and it was where it should be. Here is a link to my FB gallery for the project. You can see the image, the press and the linoleum/corian locked on the press in the pictures. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Huoneentaulu-Projekti/153360398097574?id=153360398097574&sk=photos_stream . Please dont judge me! ;) I know I am doing something different than most of you seas oned (letterpress)printers out there.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > So i guess my question is, is it possible for the cylinder to somehow shift in between prints? It just worries me, because if it happens in the middle of a printing, I have no way of registering the following colors and could ruin the whole edition. I am working in reduction linocuts so I cant go back and print more of the first color. I am printing about 70 sheets to begin with, in hopes of having editions around 50 in the end. I try to be very gentle with the press. I sweet talk to it and tuck it to bed every night.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Charles Jones <charlesdjones@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > If the plate is well locked in, not moving on the base, then logically it has to be a problem with the paper. Problems I have had of a similar nature have been: paper not cut straight, stiff paper flopping or shifting, side guides.
                                        > > > > I have improvised rubber bands on the cylinder for stiff papers, added a quad or other stop to the feed board close to the end of the paper; If the side register varies the smallest amount on the first run, it is hard to get the subsequent ones to match.
                                        > > > > What you describe sounds more like a shift of your plate/vase. Large solids require pressure and the cylinder and paper hitting the plate would move it away, or rather in the same direction as the cylinder.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > all in all it sounds like the ghost in the machine, good luck,
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Charlie Jones
                                        > > > > LaNana Creek Press
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:54 AM, Mirka <mirka_hokkanen@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > > Hi everyone, I have a problem with a flatbed press, Korrex, model Stuttgart. I've printed several editions with multiple colors up to 4 off of it since it arrived in my studio last summer. This was the first time, I had something happen that I couldn't figure out. I'll try to explain the best I can:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > I was printing the 3rd color for a print (the plate was polymer) with the plate fairly far down the press bed. Everything was lined up great, and I had printed about 10 for the real edition, when all of a sudden, the image would print 5mm higher and about 1mm over. I tried on several scrap sheets, and it kept doing it, so I repositioned the plate and started printing again. Another 10 or so prints later, the image starts printing about 3 mm lower consistently, so I reposition it again. From there on, it seemed to print pretty much at the same spot, with minor jumping around. Now, I know the plate did not move on the press, it was attached to a big base, with lines drawn around, so I know where it was originally. I also had no problem with printing or registration with the previous two colors, which were larger areas of linocuts in the middle of the image/paper. I did my best to hold the paper around the cylinder consistently, but that did not seem to be the problem either. The paper was also clamped under the gripper feet properly, so that was not it either.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > I am just baffled, what could have caused the whole press to seem to shift like that? Any thoughts? I am still fairly new to letterpress, but have been a fine art printer for about 15 years, so registration and working on presses is familiar to me. There are a lot more moving parts on the Korrex though, so I have a lot to learn on it. I am not printing commercial work, but "fine art" prints. My current series is pushing the limits on how large I can print on it, so I don't know if that has something to do with it? Thanks for any input. :)
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Mirka from Pica Doodle Press
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
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