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Re: Uneven ink on plate

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  • hersomwally
    When I say uneven I don t mean the surface height is uneven- it s more like the ink is sticking to the surface in an uneven manner. Ed- I think you might be
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 16 6:56 PM
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      When I say uneven I don't mean the surface height is uneven- it's more like the ink is sticking to the surface in an uneven manner.

      Ed- I think you might be onto something with the polymer residue being left behind. in the photo the pattern looks kind of like water rivulets on the surface.



      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Ed Inman <edinman@...> wrote:
      >
      > Uneven ink is usually caused by roller height problems or impression adjustment, but if the plate surface itself is uneven possibly some of the unexposed photopolymer was not fully washed away and made its way to the exposed polymer surface, leaving behind a residue that hardened in post-exposure. Best remedy I could propose would be to extend the processing time. Anybody else got a guess? --Ed
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > >From: hersomwally <cwhersom@...>
      > >Sent: Apr 16, 2013 5:50 PM
      > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Uneven ink on plate
      > >
      > >Hi All-
      > >
      > >I've finally started making some plates with my Polimero A4 and I've run into a weird problem.
      > >
      > > I made a plate with a relatively large surface area and the ink seems to deposit on the surface unevenly. When looking at the inked plate there are patches where the ink looks darker, and when printing, those areas seem to print slightly lighter. When cleaning the plate (with camp fluid) there are cloudy parts that are stubborn and don't want to come clean.
      > >
      > >It's very difficult to describe so I have posted photos in the "photos" section. One photo shows the plate with ink on it and one shows the plate after cleaning showing the residue left behind.
      > >
      > >I'm using Toyobo KM152 and I exposed it to about a solid 18 on the stouffer scale.
      > >
      > >Any ideas what would cause this?
      > >
      > >Thanks! - Wally
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >------------------------------------
      > >
      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Harold Kyle
      I agree that you might have photopolymer deposit on the surface. After washout, you should hose down the plate with tap water. Then, absorb the water on
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 16 9:16 PM
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        I agree that you might have photopolymer deposit on the surface. After washout, you should hose down the plate with tap water. Then, absorb the water on surface of the plate (for which we sell a sponge roller, which might overkill) before setting the plate flat to dry. Are you currently doing something like this?

        Hope this helps
        Harold



        On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 9:56 PM, hersomwally <cwhersom@...> wrote:
         

        When I say uneven I don't mean the surface height is uneven- it's more like the ink is sticking to the surface in an uneven manner.

        Ed- I think you might be onto something with the polymer residue being left behind. in the photo the pattern looks kind of like water rivulets on the surface.



        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Ed Inman <edinman@...> wrote:
        >
        > Uneven ink is usually caused by roller height problems or impression adjustment, but if the plate surface itself is uneven possibly some of the unexposed photopolymer was not fully washed away and made its way to the exposed polymer surface, leaving behind a residue that hardened in post-exposure. Best remedy I could propose would be to extend the processing time. Anybody else got a guess? --Ed
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > >From: hersomwally <cwhersom@...>
        > >Sent: Apr 16, 2013 5:50 PM
        > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Uneven ink on plate
        > >
        > >Hi All-
        > >
        > >I've finally started making some plates with my Polimero A4 and I've run into a weird problem.
        > >
        > > I made a plate with a relatively large surface area and the ink seems to deposit on the surface unevenly. When looking at the inked plate there are patches where the ink looks darker, and when printing, those areas seem to print slightly lighter. When cleaning the plate (with camp fluid) there are cloudy parts that are stubborn and don't want to come clean.
        > >
        > >It's very difficult to describe so I have posted photos in the "photos" section. One photo shows the plate with ink on it and one shows the plate after cleaning showing the residue left behind.
        > >
        > >I'm using Toyobo KM152 and I exposed it to about a solid 18 on the stouffer scale.
        > >
        > >Any ideas what would cause this?
        > >
        > >Thanks! - Wally
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >------------------------------------
        > >
        > >Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >




        --
        Boxcar Press
        509 W. Fayette St. #135
        Syracuse, NY  13204
      • hersomwally
        After washout I just dunk the plates in a bucket of clean water then blow the surface with compressed air before putting them in the dryer. It s difficult to
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 16 11:52 PM
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          After washout I just dunk the plates in a bucket of clean water then blow the surface with compressed air before putting them in the dryer. It's difficult to get all the water off the surface with the compressed air. More water seems to keep coming out of the nooks and crannies.

          Sounds like maybe I need to wash more thoroughly with clean water. I was hoping to not have to buy the expensive sponge roller. Are there any other alternatives for absorbing the surface water?

          Thanks!
          Wally



          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Harold Kyle <harold@...> wrote:
          >
          > I agree that you might have photopolymer deposit on the surface. After
          > washout, you should hose down the plate with tap water. Then, absorb the
          > water on surface of the plate (for which we sell a sponge
          > roller<http://www.boxcarpress.com/shop/sponge-roller/>,
          > which might overkill) before setting the plate flat to dry. Are you
          > currently doing something like this?
          >
          > Hope this helps
          > Harold
          >
          >
          >
          > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 9:56 PM, hersomwally <cwhersom@...> wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > When I say uneven I don't mean the surface height is uneven- it's more
          > > like the ink is sticking to the surface in an uneven manner.
          > >
          > > Ed- I think you might be onto something with the polymer residue being
          > > left behind. in the photo the pattern looks kind of like water rivulets on
          > > the surface.
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Ed Inman <edinman@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Uneven ink is usually caused by roller height problems or impression
          > > adjustment, but if the plate surface itself is uneven possibly some of the
          > > unexposed photopolymer was not fully washed away and made its way to the
          > > exposed polymer surface, leaving behind a residue that hardened in
          > > post-exposure. Best remedy I could propose would be to extend the
          > > processing time. Anybody else got a guess? --Ed
          > > >
          > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > >From: hersomwally <cwhersom@>
          > > > >Sent: Apr 16, 2013 5:50 PM
          > > > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          > > > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Uneven ink on plate
          > > > >
          > > > >Hi All-
          > > > >
          > > > >I've finally started making some plates with my Polimero A4 and I've
          > > run into a weird problem.
          > > > >
          > > > > I made a plate with a relatively large surface area and the ink seems
          > > to deposit on the surface unevenly. When looking at the inked plate there
          > > are patches where the ink looks darker, and when printing, those areas seem
          > > to print slightly lighter. When cleaning the plate (with camp fluid) there
          > > are cloudy parts that are stubborn and don't want to come clean.
          > > > >
          > > > >It's very difficult to describe so I have posted photos in the "photos"
          > > section. One photo shows the plate with ink on it and one shows the plate
          > > after cleaning showing the residue left behind.
          > > > >
          > > > >I'm using Toyobo KM152 and I exposed it to about a solid 18 on the
          > > stouffer scale.
          > > > >
          > > > >Any ideas what would cause this?
          > > > >
          > > > >Thanks! - Wally
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >------------------------------------
          > > > >
          > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Boxcar Press
          > 509 W. Fayette St. #135
          > Syracuse, NY 13204
          > www.boxcarpress.com
          >
        • Gerald Lange
          Wally There might be other problems besides those already posted. These would have primarily to do with storage. If they don t apply, just ignore them. If the
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 17 12:54 AM
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            Wally

            There might be other problems besides those already posted. These would have primarily to do with storage. If they don't apply, just ignore them.

            If the plates had been exposed to ambient light during storage, if the plates may have been stored or handled in a way that pressure may have effected the surface, or if the plates are old or damaged in some way.

            The exposure seems a bit high for this plate; your relief may have climbed (filled) to the surface a bit as well.

            Gerald
            http://bielerpress.blogspot.com

            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "hersomwally" <cwhersom@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi All-
            >
            > I've finally started making some plates with my Polimero A4 and I've run into a weird problem.
            >
            > I made a plate with a relatively large surface area and the ink seems to deposit on the surface unevenly. When looking at the inked plate there are patches where the ink looks darker, and when printing, those areas seem to print slightly lighter. When cleaning the plate (with camp fluid) there are cloudy parts that are stubborn and don't want to come clean.
            >
            > It's very difficult to describe so I have posted photos in the "photos" section. One photo shows the plate with ink on it and one shows the plate after cleaning showing the residue left behind.
            >
            > I'm using Toyobo KM152 and I exposed it to about a solid 18 on the stouffer scale.
            >
            > Any ideas what would cause this?
            >
            > Thanks! - Wally
            >
          • author50401
            Wally: I have experienced just what you are seeing when I first started with water-washout polymer plates. It seems odd that such a small amount of excess on
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 17 7:08 AM
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              Wally:

              I have experienced just what you are seeing when I first started with water-washout polymer plates. It seems odd that such a small amount of excess on the surface can make such a pattern in the printed copy, but it does.

              Your air blast might be a bit aggressive. although it make sense that you could dry the plate that way, you might be disturbing unexposed polymer and flinging it up on the surface. I generally wash out as much as I can, then do a gentle cold water rinse. The cold water may serve to firm up the unexposed polymer remaining on the plate (at least that's my story and I'm stocking with it). I have taken to just rinsing and not using the foam roller, and have had good success. The plate does not have to be completely dry before you put it in the drying box/drawer, but let it dry thouroughly before you re-expose it to the UV.

              John Henry
              Cedar Creek Press

              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "hersomwally" <cwhersom@...> wrote:
              >
              > After washout I just dunk the plates in a bucket of clean water then blow the surface with compressed air before putting them in the dryer. It's difficult to get all the water off the surface with the compressed air. More water seems to keep coming out of the nooks and crannies.
              >
              > Sounds like maybe I need to wash more thoroughly with clean water. I was hoping to not have to buy the expensive sponge roller. Are there any other alternatives for absorbing the surface water?
              >
              > Thanks!
              > Wally
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Harold Kyle <harold@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I agree that you might have photopolymer deposit on the surface. After
              > > washout, you should hose down the plate with tap water. Then, absorb the
              > > water on surface of the plate (for which we sell a sponge
              > > roller<http://www.boxcarpress.com/shop/sponge-roller/>,
              > > which might overkill) before setting the plate flat to dry. Are you
              > > currently doing something like this?
              > >
              > > Hope this helps
              > > Harold
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 9:56 PM, hersomwally <cwhersom@> wrote:
              > >
              > > > **
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > When I say uneven I don't mean the surface height is uneven- it's more
              > > > like the ink is sticking to the surface in an uneven manner.
              > > >
              > > > Ed- I think you might be onto something with the polymer residue being
              > > > left behind. in the photo the pattern looks kind of like water rivulets on
              > > > the surface.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Ed Inman <edinman@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Uneven ink is usually caused by roller height problems or impression
              > > > adjustment, but if the plate surface itself is uneven possibly some of the
              > > > unexposed photopolymer was not fully washed away and made its way to the
              > > > exposed polymer surface, leaving behind a residue that hardened in
              > > > post-exposure. Best remedy I could propose would be to extend the
              > > > processing time. Anybody else got a guess? --Ed
              > > > >
              > > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > > >From: hersomwally <cwhersom@>
              > > > > >Sent: Apr 16, 2013 5:50 PM
              > > > > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Uneven ink on plate
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Hi All-
              > > > > >
              > > > > >I've finally started making some plates with my Polimero A4 and I've
              > > > run into a weird problem.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I made a plate with a relatively large surface area and the ink seems
              > > > to deposit on the surface unevenly. When looking at the inked plate there
              > > > are patches where the ink looks darker, and when printing, those areas seem
              > > > to print slightly lighter. When cleaning the plate (with camp fluid) there
              > > > are cloudy parts that are stubborn and don't want to come clean.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >It's very difficult to describe so I have posted photos in the "photos"
              > > > section. One photo shows the plate with ink on it and one shows the plate
              > > > after cleaning showing the residue left behind.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >I'm using Toyobo KM152 and I exposed it to about a solid 18 on the
              > > > stouffer scale.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Any ideas what would cause this?
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Thanks! - Wally
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >------------------------------------
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > Boxcar Press
              > > 509 W. Fayette St. #135
              > > Syracuse, NY 13204
              > > www.boxcarpress.com
              > >
              >
            • Mirka
              This is my two cents, coming also from fine art experience with making intaglio polymer plates that have large areas of polymer left. After washout I rinse
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 17 9:40 AM
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                This is my two cents, coming also from fine art experience with making intaglio polymer plates that have large areas of polymer left. After washout I rinse with clean water under the tap, and then blot with news paper. That does not leave behind lint, but absorbs the water. If there is some left in the nooks and crannies, that is fine. Not very fancy, but a low cost functional way to do it.

                Mirka

                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "hersomwally" <cwhersom@...> wrote:
                >
                > After washout I just dunk the plates in a bucket of clean water then blow the surface with compressed air before putting them in the dryer. It's difficult to get all the water off the surface with the compressed air. More water seems to keep coming out of the nooks and crannies.
                >
                > Sounds like maybe I need to wash more thoroughly with clean water. I was hoping to not have to buy the expensive sponge roller. Are there any other alternatives for absorbing the surface water?
                >
                > Thanks!
                > Wally
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Harold Kyle <harold@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I agree that you might have photopolymer deposit on the surface. After
                > > washout, you should hose down the plate with tap water. Then, absorb the
                > > water on surface of the plate (for which we sell a sponge
                > > roller<http://www.boxcarpress.com/shop/sponge-roller/>,
                > > which might overkill) before setting the plate flat to dry. Are you
                > > currently doing something like this?
                > >
                > > Hope this helps
                > > Harold
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 9:56 PM, hersomwally <cwhersom@> wrote:
                > >
                > > > **
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > When I say uneven I don't mean the surface height is uneven- it's more
                > > > like the ink is sticking to the surface in an uneven manner.
                > > >
                > > > Ed- I think you might be onto something with the polymer residue being
                > > > left behind. in the photo the pattern looks kind of like water rivulets on
                > > > the surface.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Ed Inman <edinman@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Uneven ink is usually caused by roller height problems or impression
                > > > adjustment, but if the plate surface itself is uneven possibly some of the
                > > > unexposed photopolymer was not fully washed away and made its way to the
                > > > exposed polymer surface, leaving behind a residue that hardened in
                > > > post-exposure. Best remedy I could propose would be to extend the
                > > > processing time. Anybody else got a guess? --Ed
                > > > >
                > > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > > >From: hersomwally <cwhersom@>
                > > > > >Sent: Apr 16, 2013 5:50 PM
                > > > > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Uneven ink on plate
                > > > > >
                > > > > >Hi All-
                > > > > >
                > > > > >I've finally started making some plates with my Polimero A4 and I've
                > > > run into a weird problem.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I made a plate with a relatively large surface area and the ink seems
                > > > to deposit on the surface unevenly. When looking at the inked plate there
                > > > are patches where the ink looks darker, and when printing, those areas seem
                > > > to print slightly lighter. When cleaning the plate (with camp fluid) there
                > > > are cloudy parts that are stubborn and don't want to come clean.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >It's very difficult to describe so I have posted photos in the "photos"
                > > > section. One photo shows the plate with ink on it and one shows the plate
                > > > after cleaning showing the residue left behind.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >I'm using Toyobo KM152 and I exposed it to about a solid 18 on the
                > > > stouffer scale.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >Any ideas what would cause this?
                > > > > >
                > > > > >Thanks! - Wally
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >------------------------------------
                > > > > >
                > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > Boxcar Press
                > > 509 W. Fayette St. #135
                > > Syracuse, NY 13204
                > > www.boxcarpress.com
                > >
                >
              • Amber Ellis-Seguine
                This thread is interesting. Wally I ve been making plates for a while and never had that issue then just recently I started to have water marks on plates
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 17 10:00 AM
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                  This thread is interesting. Wally I've been making plates for a while and never had that issue then just recently I started to have "water marks" on plates with large solids.  Is that kinda what you mean? For me it was not a excess plate material issue. I know what that looks like. But I still haven't figured out what it was/is. When I look at the plate in inked you can see almost like water stains and it appears to ink just fine but when it prints it prints the water spots. Not sure if it's the same thing you are describing. But I wash out, rinse in cold water and used to use a velour roller to remove excess water. Like I said didn't change my routine but started to get "water marks"

                  My two cents that offers no help. Lol lol lol 

                  On Apr 17, 2013, at 9:40 AM, "Mirka" <mirka_hokkanen@...> wrote:

                   

                  This is my two cents, coming also from fine art experience with making intaglio polymer plates that have large areas of polymer left. After washout I rinse with clean water under the tap, and then blot with news paper. That does not leave behind lint, but absorbs the water. If there is some left in the nooks and crannies, that is fine. Not very fancy, but a low cost functional way to do it.

                  Mirka

                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "hersomwally" <cwhersom@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > After washout I just dunk the plates in a bucket of clean water then blow the surface with compressed air before putting them in the dryer. It's difficult to get all the water off the surface with the compressed air. More water seems to keep coming out of the nooks and crannies.
                  >
                  > Sounds like maybe I need to wash more thoroughly with clean water. I was hoping to not have to buy the expensive sponge roller. Are there any other alternatives for absorbing the surface water?
                  >
                  > Thanks!
                  > Wally
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Harold Kyle <harold@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I agree that you might have photopolymer deposit on the surface. After
                  > > washout, you should hose down the plate with tap water. Then, absorb the
                  > > water on surface of the plate (for which we sell a sponge
                  > > roller<http://www.boxcarpress.com/shop/sponge-roller/>,
                  > > which might overkill) before setting the plate flat to dry. Are you
                  > > currently doing something like this?
                  > >
                  > > Hope this helps
                  > > Harold
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 9:56 PM, hersomwally <cwhersom@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > **
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > When I say uneven I don't mean the surface height is uneven- it's more
                  > > > like the ink is sticking to the surface in an uneven manner.
                  > > >
                  > > > Ed- I think you might be onto something with the polymer residue being
                  > > > left behind. in the photo the pattern looks kind of like water rivulets on
                  > > > the surface.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Ed Inman <edinman@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Uneven ink is usually caused by roller height problems or impression
                  > > > adjustment, but if the plate surface itself is uneven possibly some of the
                  > > > unexposed photopolymer was not fully washed away and made its way to the
                  > > > exposed polymer surface, leaving behind a residue that hardened in
                  > > > post-exposure. Best remedy I could propose would be to extend the
                  > > > processing time. Anybody else got a guess? --Ed
                  > > > >
                  > > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > > >From: hersomwally <cwhersom@>
                  > > > > >Sent: Apr 16, 2013 5:50 PM
                  > > > > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Uneven ink on plate
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >Hi All-
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >I've finally started making some plates with my Polimero A4 and I've
                  > > > run into a weird problem.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I made a plate with a relatively large surface area and the ink seems
                  > > > to deposit on the surface unevenly. When looking at the inked plate there
                  > > > are patches where the ink looks darker, and when printing, those areas seem
                  > > > to print slightly lighter. When cleaning the plate (with camp fluid) there
                  > > > are cloudy parts that are stubborn and don't want to come clean.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >It's very difficult to describe so I have posted photos in the "photos"
                  > > > section. One photo shows the plate with ink on it and one shows the plate
                  > > > after cleaning showing the residue left behind.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >I'm using Toyobo KM152 and I exposed it to about a solid 18 on the
                  > > > stouffer scale.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >Any ideas what would cause this?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >Thanks! - Wally
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >------------------------------------
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > Boxcar Press
                  > > 509 W. Fayette St. #135
                  > > Syracuse, NY 13204
                  > > www.boxcarpress.com
                  > >
                  >

                • Eric
                  Gerald has a good point here. 18 is a very high point on the Stouffer scale, when 14-15 are the specifications for Toyobo K-series plates (at least in my old
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 17 10:09 AM
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                    Gerald has a good point here. 18 is a very high point on the Stouffer scale, when 14-15 are the specifications for Toyobo K-series plates (at least in my old spec sheets). Sure it is a Stouffer scale and not a different type?
                    Then consider the image itself. What is shown is essentiually a reverse, which should be given a shorter exposure than whatever the "normal" exposure is to avoid filling.
                    To remove any surface moisture or debris, I don't use a sponge but rather wipe with a laundered cotton rag. bunched up as an etcher would do when wiping a plate with cheesecloth. Sometimes I do use compressed air but you may blow slick photopolymer onto the surface, and possibly blow over underexposed elements such as barrel-bodied lines and dots. A very careful wipe takes care of the surface, and the time spent in the dryer will shrink some of the non-image areas that were almost at printing height when still wet.
                    --Eric Holub, SF
                  • Kevin Martin
                    There is more than one Stouffer scale . The company makes scales with different density ranges and also different density steps from one number to the next.
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 17 10:12 AM
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                      There is more than one "Stouffer scale". The company makes scales with different density ranges and also different density steps from one number to the next.

                      -Kevin Martin
                      the Papertrail Handmade Paper & Book Arts
                      New Dundee, Ontario
                      www.papertrail.ca

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric

                      Gerald has a good point here. 18 is a very high point on the Stouffer scale, when 14-15 are the specifications for Toyobo K-series plates (at least in my old spec sheets). Sure it is a Stouffer scale and not a different type?
                    • Prepress <Dr. Mohr>
                      Large solids on Plates need to be sufficient dry before they go into the dryer. I regularly make plates as large as 24 x 30 for printmaking and they have
                      Message 10 of 17 , Apr 17 10:13 AM
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                        Large solids on Plates need to be sufficient  dry before they go into the dryer. I regularly make plates as large as 24 x 30 for printmaking and they have massive solid areas as opposed to a letterpress. After washout I usually rinse the plates under running water and place them on a angled perforated sheet to drip, than sponge roll them before placing them in the dryer. On large solids you can have pocket which retain moisture, this shows up in Printmaking as lighter and in letterpress as a darker spot. That is why its utmost to get all the moisture out. 




                        Film output and Polymerplates 

                        On Apr 17, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Mirka wrote:

                         

                        This is my two cents, coming also from fine art experience with making intaglio polymer plates that have large areas of polymer left. After washout I rinse with clean water under the tap, and then blot with news paper. That does not leave behind lint, but absorbs the water. If there is some left in the nooks and crannies, that is fine. Not very fancy, but a low cost functional way to do it.

                        Mirka

                        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "hersomwally" <cwhersom@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > After washout I just dunk the plates in a bucket of clean water then blow the surface with compressed air before putting them in the dryer. It's difficult to get all the water off the surface with the compressed air. More water seems to keep coming out of the nooks and crannies.
                        >
                        > Sounds like maybe I need to wash more thoroughly with clean water. I was hoping to not have to buy the expensive sponge roller. Are there any other alternatives for absorbing the surface water?
                        >
                        > Thanks!
                        > Wally
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Harold Kyle <harold@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I agree that you might have photopolymer deposit on the surface. After
                        > > washout, you should hose down the plate with tap water. Then, absorb the
                        > > water on surface of the plate (for which we sell a sponge
                        > > roller<http://www.boxcarpress.com/shop/sponge-roller/>,
                        > > which might overkill) before setting the plate flat to dry. Are you
                        > > currently doing something like this?
                        > >
                        > > Hope this helps
                        > > Harold
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 9:56 PM, hersomwally <cwhersom@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > **
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > When I say uneven I don't mean the surface height is uneven- it's more
                        > > > like the ink is sticking to the surface in an uneven manner.
                        > > >
                        > > > Ed- I think you might be onto something with the polymer residue being
                        > > > left behind. in the photo the pattern looks kind of like water rivulets on
                        > > > the surface.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Ed Inman <edinman@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Uneven ink is usually caused by roller height problems or impression
                        > > > adjustment, but if the plate surface itself is uneven possibly some of the
                        > > > unexposed photopolymer was not fully washed away and made its way to the
                        > > > exposed polymer surface, leaving behind a residue that hardened in
                        > > > post-exposure. Best remedy I could propose would be to extend the
                        > > > processing time. Anybody else got a guess? --Ed
                        > > > >
                        > > > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > > > >From: hersomwally <cwhersom@>
                        > > > > >Sent: Apr 16, 2013 5:50 PM
                        > > > > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Uneven ink on plate
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >Hi All-
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >I've finally started making some plates with my Polimero A4 and I've
                        > > > run into a weird problem.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I made a plate with a relatively large surface area and the ink seems
                        > > > to deposit on the surface unevenly. When looking at the inked plate there
                        > > > are patches where the ink looks darker, and when printing, those areas seem
                        > > > to print slightly lighter. When cleaning the plate (with camp fluid) there
                        > > > are cloudy parts that are stubborn and don't want to come clean.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >It's very difficult to describe so I have posted photos in the "photos"
                        > > > section. One photo shows the plate with ink on it and one shows the plate
                        > > > after cleaning showing the residue left behind.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >I'm using Toyobo KM152 and I exposed it to about a solid 18 on the
                        > > > stouffer scale.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >Any ideas what would cause this?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >Thanks! - Wally
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >------------------------------------
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > Boxcar Press
                        > > 509 W. Fayette St. #135
                        > > Syracuse, NY 13204
                        > > www.boxcarpress.com
                        > >
                        >


                      • Amber Ellis-Seguine
                        Thank you. That s good to know but I wonder if my idea of large solid is the same as yours. I m speaking of an A2 greeting card front (4.25 x 5.5) with a bold
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 17 10:20 AM
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                          Thank you. That's good to know but I wonder if my idea of large solid is the same as yours. I'm speaking of an A2 greeting card front (4.25 x 5.5) with a bold font covering the majority of the area. Do you still think what you said applies? 

                          On Apr 17, 2013, at 10:13 AM, "Prepress <Dr. Mohr>" <typenut@...> wrote:

                           

                          Large solids on Plates need to be sufficient  dry before they go into the dryer. I regularly make plates as large as 24 x 30 for printmaking and they have massive solid areas as opposed to a letterpress. After washout I usually rinse the plates under running water and place them on a angled perforated sheet to drip, than sponge roll them before placing them in the dryer. On large solids you can have pocket which retain moisture, this shows up in Printmaking as lighter and in letterpress as a darker spot. That is why its utmost to get all the moisture out. 




                          Film output and Polymerplates 

                          On Apr 17, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Mirka wrote:

                           

                          This is my two cents, coming also from fine art experience with making intaglio polymer plates that have large areas of polymer left. After washout I rinse with clean water under the tap, and then blot with news paper. That does not leave behind lint, but absorbs the water. If there is some left in the nooks and crannies, that is fine. Not very fancy, but a low cost functional way to do it.

                          Mirka

                          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "hersomwally" <cwhersom@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > After washout I just dunk the plates in a bucket of clean water then blow the surface with compressed air before putting them in the dryer. It's difficult to get all the water off the surface with the compressed air. More water seems to keep coming out of the nooks and crannies.
                          >
                          > Sounds like maybe I need to wash more thoroughly with clean water. I was hoping to not have to buy the expensive sponge roller. Are there any other alternatives for absorbing the surface water?
                          >
                          > Thanks!
                          > Wally
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Harold Kyle <harold@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I agree that you might have photopolymer deposit on the surface. After
                          > > washout, you should hose down the plate with tap water. Then, absorb the
                          > > water on surface of the plate (for which we sell a sponge
                          > > roller<http://www.boxcarpress.com/shop/sponge-roller/>,
                          > > which might overkill) before setting the plate flat to dry. Are you
                          > > currently doing something like this?
                          > >
                          > > Hope this helps
                          > > Harold
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 9:56 PM, hersomwally <cwhersom@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > **
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > When I say uneven I don't mean the surface height is uneven- it's more
                          > > > like the ink is sticking to the surface in an uneven manner.
                          > > >
                          > > > Ed- I think you might be onto something with the polymer residue being
                          > > > left behind. in the photo the pattern looks kind of like water rivulets on
                          > > > the surface.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Ed Inman <edinman@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Uneven ink is usually caused by roller height problems or impression
                          > > > adjustment, but if the plate surface itself is uneven possibly some of the
                          > > > unexposed photopolymer was not fully washed away and made its way to the
                          > > > exposed polymer surface, leaving behind a residue that hardened in
                          > > > post-exposure. Best remedy I could propose would be to extend the
                          > > > processing time. Anybody else got a guess? --Ed
                          > > > >
                          > > > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > > > >From: hersomwally <cwhersom@>
                          > > > > >Sent: Apr 16, 2013 5:50 PM
                          > > > > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Uneven ink on plate
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >Hi All-
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >I've finally started making some plates with my Polimero A4 and I've
                          > > > run into a weird problem.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I made a plate with a relatively large surface area and the ink seems
                          > > > to deposit on the surface unevenly. When looking at the inked plate there
                          > > > are patches where the ink looks darker, and when printing, those areas seem
                          > > > to print slightly lighter. When cleaning the plate (with camp fluid) there
                          > > > are cloudy parts that are stubborn and don't want to come clean.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >It's very difficult to describe so I have posted photos in the "photos"
                          > > > section. One photo shows the plate with ink on it and one shows the plate
                          > > > after cleaning showing the residue left behind.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >I'm using Toyobo KM152 and I exposed it to about a solid 18 on the
                          > > > stouffer scale.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >Any ideas what would cause this?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >Thanks! - Wally
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >------------------------------------
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --
                          > > Boxcar Press
                          > > 509 W. Fayette St. #135
                          > > Syracuse, NY 13204
                          > > www.boxcarpress.com
                          > >
                          >


                        • Amber Ellis-Seguine
                          Yes nothing has changed. I make plates all the time and don t have any issues but this is the first time I have made something that this much coverage. Amber
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 17 10:55 AM
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                            Yes nothing has changed. I make plates all the time and don't have any issues but this is the first time I have made something that this much coverage. 


                            Amber Ellis Seguine
                            • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 
                            307 7th Avenue
                            San Mateo, Ca 94401
                            (650) 307-5359










                            On Apr 17, 2013, at 10:34 AM, Prepress <Dr. Mohr> <typenut@...> wrote:

                            Yes, I assume you always use the same plate type?

                            My House plate is BASF Nyloprint but for Printmaking I use Toyobo, they wipe without a platetone.
                            ___________________________________
                            Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                            310.217.0400
                            -------------------------------------------------------------






                            On Apr 17, 2013, at 10:31 AM, Amber Ellis-Seguine wrote:

                            Well my exposure time, wash out temp etc. has always been the same and had never caused a problem. So I am assuming that's fine. From what you have said I'm guessing it is an issue with how well I have dried it before I put it in the drying drawer.  

                            On Apr 17, 2013, at 10:22 AM, "Prepress <Dr. Mohr>" <typenut@...> wrote:

                            Yes,

                            also exact exposure time, washout time and Bath temp matters.

                            Ludwig
                            ___________________________________
                            Krause Intaglio
                            Printmaking and Letterpress in the digital Age
                            310.217.0400
                            -------------------------------------------------------------






                            On Apr 17, 2013, at 10:20 AM, Amber Ellis-Seguine wrote:

                             

                            Thank you. That's good to know but I wonder if my idea of large solid is the same as yours. I'm speaking of an A2 greeting card front (4.25 x 5.5) with a bold font covering the majority of the area. Do you still think what you said applies? 

                            On Apr 17, 2013, at 10:13 AM, "Prepress <Dr. Mohr>" <typenut@...> wrote:

                             

                            Large solids on Plates need to be sufficient  dry before they go into the dryer. I regularly make plates as large as 24 x 30 for printmaking and they have massive solid areas as opposed to a letterpress. After washout I usually rinse the plates under running water and place them on a angled perforated sheet to drip, than sponge roll them before placing them in the dryer. On large solids you can have pocket which retain moisture, this shows up in Printmaking as lighter and in letterpress as a darker spot. That is why its utmost to get all the moisture out. 




                            Film output and Polymerplates 

                            On Apr 17, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Mirka wrote:

                             

                            This is my two cents, coming also from fine art experience with making intaglio polymer plates that have large areas of polymer left. After washout I rinse with clean water under the tap, and then blot with news paper. That does not leave behind lint, but absorbs the water. If there is some left in the nooks and crannies, that is fine. Not very fancy, but a low cost functional way to do it.

                            Mirka

                            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "hersomwally" <cwhersom@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > After washout I just dunk the plates in a bucket of clean water then blow the surface with compressed air before putting them in the dryer. It's difficult to get all the water off the surface with the compressed air. More water seems to keep coming out of the nooks and crannies.
                            >
                            > Sounds like maybe I need to wash more thoroughly with clean water. I was hoping to not have to buy the expensive sponge roller. Are there any other alternatives for absorbing the surface water?
                            >
                            > Thanks!
                            > Wally
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Harold Kyle <harold@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I agree that you might have photopolymer deposit on the surface. After
                            > > washout, you should hose down the plate with tap water. Then, absorb the
                            > > water on surface of the plate (for which we sell a sponge
                            > > roller<http://www.boxcarpress.com/shop/sponge-roller/>,
                            > > which might overkill) before setting the plate flat to dry. Are you
                            > > currently doing something like this?
                            > >
                            > > Hope this helps
                            > > Harold
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 9:56 PM, hersomwally <cwhersom@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > **
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > When I say uneven I don't mean the surface height is uneven- it's more
                            > > > like the ink is sticking to the surface in an uneven manner.
                            > > >
                            > > > Ed- I think you might be onto something with the polymer residue being
                            > > > left behind. in the photo the pattern looks kind of like water rivulets on
                            > > > the surface.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Ed Inman <edinman@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Uneven ink is usually caused by roller height problems or impression
                            > > > adjustment, but if the plate surface itself is uneven possibly some of the
                            > > > unexposed photopolymer was not fully washed away and made its way to the
                            > > > exposed polymer surface, leaving behind a residue that hardened in
                            > > > post-exposure. Best remedy I could propose would be to extend the
                            > > > processing time. Anybody else got a guess? --Ed
                            > > > >
                            > > > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > > > >From: hersomwally <cwhersom@>
                            > > > > >Sent: Apr 16, 2013 5:50 PM
                            > > > > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Uneven ink on plate
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >Hi All-
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >I've finally started making some plates with my Polimero A4 and I've
                            > > > run into a weird problem.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I made a plate with a relatively large surface area and the ink seems
                            > > > to deposit on the surface unevenly. When looking at the inked plate there
                            > > > are patches where the ink looks darker, and when printing, those areas seem
                            > > > to print slightly lighter. When cleaning the plate (with camp fluid) there
                            > > > are cloudy parts that are stubborn and don't want to come clean.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >It's very difficult to describe so I have posted photos in the "photos"
                            > > > section. One photo shows the plate with ink on it and one shows the plate
                            > > > after cleaning showing the residue left behind.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >I'm using Toyobo KM152 and I exposed it to about a solid 18 on the
                            > > > stouffer scale.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >Any ideas what would cause this?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >Thanks! - Wally
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >------------------------------------
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --
                            > > Boxcar Press
                            > > 509 W. Fayette St. #135
                            > > Syracuse, NY 13204
                            > > www.boxcarpress.com
                            > >
                            >




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                          • Ed Inman
                            My drying method like everything else is admittedly low tech. I typicaly lay a paper towel over the raised surface to remove excess water then gently blow warm
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 17 11:22 AM
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                              My drying method like everything else is admittedly low tech. I typicaly lay a paper towel over the raised surface to remove excess water then gently blow warm air on the plate from a hair dryer before post exposure. That's probably not the best way, but I've never had any problem with it using hand-processed steel backed (145HSB) plates. This photo shows plates I made Monday this way for making round stickers for a local rock band:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/9645031@N07/8652743991/lightbox/   At left you will see the original bitmap created in Photoshop and printed on my laser printer at 200 percent (40 dpi halftone); the camera negative made on rapid access film shot at 50 percent (raising the dpi to 80); the actual plates after exposure and processing; and the finished stickers after being die cut to 3 inches round.  I find this method satisfactory for general work. However, I don't actually make wedding invitation plates this way. For high-end work I generally have the chosen graphic artist order professionally made plates from a supplier of their choice (especially when troublesome thin hairlines common to calligraphy and script type is involved).  --Ed
                            • hersomwally
                              Thanks to everybody for all the help with this problem! I now have lot s of drying techniques to try.
                              Message 14 of 17 , Apr 17 11:57 AM
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                                Thanks to everybody for all the help with this problem! I now have lot's of drying techniques to try.


                                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <Megalonyx@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Gerald has a good point here. 18 is a very high point on the Stouffer scale, when 14-15 are the specifications for Toyobo K-series plates (at least in my old spec sheets). Sure it is a Stouffer scale and not a different type?
                                > Then consider the image itself. What is shown is essentiually a reverse, which should be given a shorter exposure than whatever the "normal" exposure is to avoid filling.
                                > To remove any surface moisture or debris, I don't use a sponge but rather wipe with a laundered cotton rag. bunched up as an etcher would do when wiping a plate with cheesecloth. Sometimes I do use compressed air but you may blow slick photopolymer onto the surface, and possibly blow over underexposed elements such as barrel-bodied lines and dots. A very careful wipe takes care of the surface, and the time spent in the dryer will shrink some of the non-image areas that were almost at printing height when still wet.
                                > --Eric Holub, SF
                                >
                              • Eric
                                ... The 21-step Platemaker s gray-scale has long been standard in commercial printing, and is what is sold by most suppliers of relief photopolymer plates. It
                                Message 15 of 17 , Apr 18 9:09 PM
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                                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Martin <kpmartin@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > There is more than one "Stouffer scale". The company makes scales with different density ranges and also different density steps from one number to the next.
                                  >

                                  The 21-step Platemaker's gray-scale has long been standard in commercial printing, and is what is sold by most suppliers of relief photopolymer plates. It is also what the manufacturer's specifications mean when they refer to Stouffer (they may also give values for other brands such as Dainippon etc.).
                                  --Eric Holub, SF
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