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Hebrew typesetting

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  • slubell1945
    Does anyone have any experience with casting of Hebrew founts. I am interested in historical types and whether the accents (vowels) were struck separately or
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 14, 2012
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      Does anyone have any experience with casting of Hebrew founts. I am interested in historical types and whether the accents (vowels) were struck separately or together with the main character.
    • TW RR
      I don t know for sure, but, I expect that they were separate or not generally used at all. If struck together, there would be numerous variations. Much easier
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 14, 2012
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        I don't know for sure, but, I expect that they were separate or not generally used at all. If struck together, there would be numerous variations. Much easier with electronic type. Hebrew text for the well versed doesn't always have the vowels. I saw some Hebrew type on eBay once but they wanted more than I was willing to pay.

        Fred U Needham

        On Dec 14, 2012, at 6:02 AM, "slubell1945" <slubell@...> wrote:

         

        Does anyone have any experience with casting of Hebrew founts. I am interested in historical types and whether the accents (vowels) were struck separately or together with the main character.

      • Edgar Weber
        If Golgonooza Letter Foundry is still around you might ask them. I believe they cast Hebrew type.   Ed Weber ________________________________ From: TW RR
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 15, 2012
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          If Golgonooza Letter Foundry is still around you might ask them. I believe they cast Hebrew type.
            Ed Weber


          From: TW RR <funeedham@...>
          To: "PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com" <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Fri, December 14, 2012 7:37:15 PM
          Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Hebrew typesetting

           

          I don't know for sure, but, I expect that they were separate or not generally used at all. If struck together, there would be numerous variations. Much easier with electronic type. Hebrew text for the well versed doesn't always have the vowels. I saw some Hebrew type on eBay once but they wanted more than I was willing to pay.

          Fred U Needham

          On Dec 14, 2012, at 6:02 AM, "slubell1945" <slubell@...> wrote:

           

          Does anyone have any experience with casting of Hebrew founts. I am interested in historical types and whether the accents (vowels) were struck separately or together with the main character.

        • skalex123
          The accents definitely would have been cast with each sort, not separately. Type cast for languages with many accents had many more sorts, one for each
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 15, 2012
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            The accents definitely would have been cast with each sort, not separately. Type cast for languages with many accents had many more sorts, one for each combination of letter and accent needed.

            It is possible to use two punches (one with the letter and one with the accent) to make a single matrix, and then cast from that matrix, but you still need one matrix for each sort.

            Im pretty sure that the Dale Guild has a few fonts of hebrew, but I don't think they've ever cast from them. I think there are monotype hebrew fonts, but I don't know who has them, or if they would cast from them.

            Good luck,
            Alex Brooks
            Alex Brooks Conservation
            Lexington, Kentucky
            alexbrooks@...
            (859) 608 5863

            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "slubell1945" <slubell@...> wrote:
            >
            > Does anyone have any experience with casting of Hebrew founts. I am interested in historical types and whether the accents (vowels) were struck separately or together with the main character.
            >
          • Bill
            Accents were definitely cast with the letters. But it really matters what level of Hebrew composition you want to attempt. A wedding invitation or a line
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 15, 2012
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              Accents were definitely cast with the letters. But it really matters what level of Hebrew composition you want to attempt. A wedding invitation or a line from the Torah? I have fonts for the Ludlow and Linotype and most popular combinations and accents are covered by a single matrix. But the more complex accents are not.

              Ed Rayner at Swamp Road Press in Northfield, Mass has a few monotype hand set fonts available. He does not read or write Hebrew so you would need to see if his font sort would meet your needs, the the quality is excellent. Another issue is that a number of his fonts are Hebrew condensed which unless your Hebrew is very good and your eyes are keen you will have a tough time.

              Jericho Press in England would be a great contact also. I am not sure of their contact information.

              Most monotype and line cast Hebrew is not very decorative. The goal for linotype fonts was to create readable fonts for newspapers. So fonts like Frankruehl were designed. With Ludlow fonts newspapers were making single line slugs for advertising or headlines. You did make this post on the polymer plate yahoo group. There are so many wonderful digital Hebrew fonts...you just need to adjust your keyboard and computer language. Then you can compose and email a proof easy to your proof reader. And I would always use a second set of eyes for Hebrew.

              Oh yes, and you don't set Hebrew sort backwards and upside down. It's already backwards and upside down. The nick is on the other side of the type!

              I am working on a specimen catalog of Ludlow and Linotype Hebrew fonts. There will be about 29 total from our collection.

              Have fun.

              Shalom,

              Bill Muller
              Big Wheel Press

              Sent from my iPad
            • Ph. D.
              In Hebrew foundry type, the vowel points which go below the letter were cast as separate pieces, such as 8 pt vowel points supplied with 18 pt letters. All the
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 15, 2012
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                In Hebrew foundry type, the vowel points which go below the letter were cast as separate pieces, such as 8 pt vowel points supplied with 18 pt letters. All the foundry specimen books I have show them this way.

                --Ph. D.

                skalex123 wrote:
                 


                The accents definitely would have been cast with each sort, not separately. Type cast for languages with many accents had many more sorts, one for each combination of letter and accent needed.

                It is possible to use two punches (one with the letter and one with the accent) to make a single matrix, and then cast from that matrix, but you still need one matrix for each sort.

                Im pretty sure that the Dale Guild has a few fonts of hebrew, but I don't think they've ever cast from them. I think there are monotype hebrew fonts, but I don't know who has them, or if they would cast from them.

                Good luck,
                Alex Brooks
                Alex Brooks Conservation
                Lexington, Kentucky
                alexbrooks@...
                (859) 608 5863

                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "slubell1945" <slubell@...> wrote:
                >
                > Does anyone have any experience with casting of Hebrew founts. I am interested in historical types and whether the accents (vowels) were struck separately or together with the main character.
                >


              • Eric
                ... Dan Carr of Golgonooza died in the last year or so, a huge loss to typography. He was one of the few remaining trained punchcutters. --Eric Holub, SF
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 16, 2012
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                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Weber <elweber@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > If Golgonooza Letter Foundry is still around you might ask them.

                  Dan Carr of Golgonooza died in the last year or so, a huge loss to typography. He was one of the few remaining trained punchcutters.
                  --Eric Holub, SF
                • Norman McKnight
                  M:onroe Postman of P Nye Press had Hebrew mats, & Chris Chen cast from them for Monroe s use; after Monroe s passing they were given to Mark Knudsen to take to
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 16, 2012
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                    M:onroe Postman of P’Nye Press had Hebrew mats, & Chris Chen cast from them for Monroe’s use; after

                    Monroe’s passing they were given to Mark Knudsen to take to the ATF Conference in Portland for sale,

                    but there were apparently no takers, as there are not so many who are willing or able to cast their own

                    types let alone Hebrew. These matrices may still be available & if you write off the List I will supply the

                    contact email. I don’t know what the face was, perhaps 12 point David from the Jerusalem Typefoundry,

                    although Monotype. I gave Monroe a printer’s manual in Hebrew which had a lot of information which

                    was unavailable to either of us (Monroe’s Hebrew was limited to chanting, & mine is none existent). It

                    probably had specimen showings, but I don’t recall.

                     

                    Norman McKnight

                    Philoxenia Press, Berkeley

                    www.ephimeros.tumblr.com

                    www.taxidromikon.tumblr.com

                  • Yehuda Miklaf
                    The answer seems to be both. The fonts that I saw at Yoel Solomon s grandson s shop were huge cases with all the variations, vowels attached. The same with the
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 16, 2012
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                      The answer seems to be both. The fonts that I saw at Yoel Solomon’s grandson’s shop were huge cases with all the variations, vowels attached. The same with the cases that Ido Agassi has. However, when we set other sizes we use Monotype vowels (which were cast separately) with the foundry type. Labour intensive but do-able.

                       

                      Dale Type Guild has my Hebrew mats but as far as I know Theo has never cast from them. They were rescued from the ATF auction and they are rather uninteresting faces more suitable for American Yiddish than modern or ancient Hebrew.

                       

                      Yehuda Miklaf

                      fritzmiklaf@...

                      www.yehudamiklaf.com

                       

                    • Ph. D.
                      I doubt the matrices are for the David typeface, as that face was only issued as mats by Intertype Corporation for slug casting. Ismar David designed a family
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 16, 2012
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                        I doubt the matrices are for the David typeface, as that face was only issued as mats
                        by Intertype Corporation for slug casting. Ismar David designed a family of three
                        variations, each in three weights, but only the regular with italic and regular with
                        bold were issued by Intertype. (I believe Yehuda Miklaf has some David foundry
                        type which was cast from Intertype mats.)

                        --Ph. D.

                        Norman McKnight wrote:
                         

                        M:onroe Postman of P’Nye Press had Hebrew mats, & Chris Chen cast from them for Monroe’s use; after

                        Monroe’s passing they were given to Mark Knudsen to take to the ATF Conference in Portland for sale,

                        but there were apparently no takers, as there are not so many who are willing or able to cast their own

                        types let alone Hebrew. These matrices may still be available & if you write off the List I will supply the

                        contact email. I don’t know what the face was, perhaps 12 point David from the Jerusalem Typefoundry,

                        although Monotype. I gave Monroe a printer’s manual in Hebrew which had a lot of information which

                        was unavailable to either of us (Monroe’s Hebrew was limited to chanting, & mine is none existent). It

                        probably had specimen showings, but I don’t recall.

                         

                        Norman McKnight

                        Philoxenia Press, Berkeley

                        www.ephimeros.tumblr.com

                        www.taxidromikon.tumblr.com


                      • Norman McKnight
                        The Hebrew mats that went to Portland were sold; they were Linotype matrices. The Hebrew mats cast by Chris Chen are of unknown whereabouts at present. I will
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 16, 2012
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                          The Hebrew mats that went to Portland were sold; they were Linotype matrices. The Hebrew mats cast by Chris Chen are

                          of  unknown whereabouts at present. I will query him when I see him at Chinese New Year; the mats he cast at Monroe

                          Postman’s place were a commissioned casting I understand & not for Monroe himself. It would be interesting to get some

                          kind of census of Hebrew & other non-roman matrices held by type casters. There was a press in upstate New York called

                          Pars Rimonem (not certain of the spelling here); it advertised in Fine Print a couple of times & then disappeared from the

                          planet. They did exquisite work using fine Hebrew types. I never knew who it was or where they went, & I have never seen

                          their only book (I think only one) offered anywhere.

                           

                          Norman

                        • Bill
                          You are referring to Pardes Rimonim Press of Woodmere, New York. They did a 14 page illustrated folio of Song of Songs in Hebrew. And they have disappeared.
                          Message 12 of 15 , Dec 16, 2012
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                            You are referring to Pardes Rimonim Press of Woodmere, New York.  They did a 14 page illustrated folio of Song of Songs in Hebrew. And they have disappeared.

                            Bill
                            Big Wheel Press


                            Sent from my iPad
                          • Stephen Lubell
                            Thanks to everyone who replied to my message re Hebrew casting. I will reply separately. Stephen Lubell 31B Clarence Road London N22 8PG 0208 888 7567
                            Message 13 of 15 , Dec 17, 2012
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                              Thanks to everyone who replied to my message re Hebrew casting. I will reply separately.

                               

                              Stephen Lubell

                              31B Clarence Road

                              London N22 8PG

                              0208 888 7567

                              Slubell@...

                               

                            • Eric
                              ... Chris left some of this at my shop. Some is cast on 36 point body, some on 30, No diacriticals. --Eric Holub, SF
                              Message 14 of 15 , Dec 17, 2012
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                                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Norman McKnight" <philoxenia@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > The Hebrew mats cast by Chris Chen are of unknown whereabouts at present.

                                Chris left some of this at my shop. Some is cast on 36 point body, some on 30, No diacriticals.
                                --Eric Holub, SF
                              • Yehuda Miklaf
                                The David Hebrew that I have was cast from the mats at the Jerusalem Type Foundry. I rescued the mats when the foundry gave its last gasp and everything is now
                                Message 15 of 15 , Dec 18, 2012
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                                  The David Hebrew that I have was cast from the mats at the Jerusalem Type Foundry. I rescued the mats when the foundry gave its last gasp and everything is now at the National Library. I borrowed the two sets of David mats and had some type cast at Wagner Ingolstadt when it still operated.

                                   

                                  I think there are some mats at the Print Museum in Leipzig. I saw some Hebrew type there and assumed that they cast it.

                                   

                                  I also have inherited the set of David that Ismar David had cast from the Intertype mats for his part in the Liber Librorum. He gave it to Erich and Lili Wronker of Ron Press and Lili gave it to me.

                                   

                                  -Yehuda

                                   

                                  Yehuda Miklaf

                                  fritzmiklaf@...

                                  www.yehudamiklaf.com

                                   

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