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relief inks that bronze

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  • susanmakov
    Lately, I have been having problems with my black relief inks (a mixture of Daniel Smith Relief black with lithographic matte black) bronzing in solid areas. I
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 29 9:01 AM
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      Lately, I have been having problems with my black relief inks (a mixture of Daniel Smith Relief black with lithographic matte black) bronzing in solid areas. I am printing on Tosa Hanga Japanese paper. I air dry it (I live in a very arid area) because it seems to take at least a week to dry. Any additives or special relief inks that do not bronze? Thanks for your ideas.
    • bielerpr
      The Daniel Smith relief inks tend to be a bit waxy. Relief inks in general aren t so great, bit too soupy. I use stone litho inks almost exclusively. I print
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 30 8:47 PM
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        The Daniel Smith relief inks tend to be a bit waxy. Relief inks in general aren't so great, bit too soupy. I use stone litho inks almost exclusively. I print with Vandercooks though, so if you are using another kind of press, the advice should be taken as such.

        I've had great success with Graphic Chemical's Lithographic Senefelder's Crayon Black. Amazing Black. It's a bit stiff but can be cut with their Roll Up Black. The whole line seems quite good. The Stiff Opaque White is to die for and the Laketine extender is bizarrely cool. Best line of inks I have found.

        I've tried most blacks out there though and I can't say I've ever noticed bronzing. Might be something unique to what you are doing.

        Gerald
        http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "susanmakov" <smakov@...> wrote:
        >
        > Lately, I have been having problems with my black relief inks (a mixture of Daniel Smith Relief black with lithographic matte black) bronzing in solid areas. I am printing on Tosa Hanga Japanese paper. I air dry it (I live in a very arid area) because it seems to take at least a week to dry. Any additives or special relief inks that do not bronze? Thanks for your ideas.
        >
      • Gerald Lange
        Thinking about this some more I suspect the bronzing might simply be the effect of your mixing a relief ink with a matte litho ink. I once mixed Handschy
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 30 9:18 PM
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          Thinking about this some more I suspect the bronzing might simply be the effect of your mixing a relief ink with a matte litho ink. I once mixed Handschy Crayon Black (a stone litho ink) with good ole tried and true Van Son 10850 (which works in some applications) and got this weird spiking effect. Kind of liked it for the piece but probably could never replicate it no matter how I tried.

          Gerald
          http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "bielerpr" <Bieler@...> wrote:
          >
          > The Daniel Smith relief inks tend to be a bit waxy. Relief inks in general aren't so great, bit too soupy. I use stone litho inks almost exclusively. I print with Vandercooks though, so if you are using another kind of press, the advice should be taken as such.
          >
          > I've had great success with Graphic Chemical's Lithographic Senefelder's Crayon Black. Amazing Black. It's a bit stiff but can be cut with their Roll Up Black. The whole line seems quite good. The Stiff Opaque White is to die for and the Laketine extender is bizarrely cool. Best line of inks I have found.
          >
          > I've tried most blacks out there though and I can't say I've ever noticed bronzing. Might be something unique to what you are doing.
          >
          > Gerald
          > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
          >
          >
          > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "susanmakov" <smakov@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Lately, I have been having problems with my black relief inks (a mixture of Daniel Smith Relief black with lithographic matte black) bronzing in solid areas. I am printing on Tosa Hanga Japanese paper. I air dry it (I live in a very arid area) because it seems to take at least a week to dry. Any additives or special relief inks that do not bronze? Thanks for your ideas.
          > >
          >
        • Susan Makov
          Gerald,Thanks for your insights. Yes I have gotten that spiking you mention, though not what I wanted. Off to buy some new ink. Thanks. Susan MakovProfessor of
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 1, 2012
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            Gerald,
            Thanks for your insights. Yes I have gotten that spiking you mention, though not what I wanted. Off to buy some new ink. Thanks.

            Susan Makov
            Professor of Art
            Weber State University
            2001 University Circle
            Ogden, Utah 84408
            h: 801-328-0128
            www.Greencatpress.com



            From: Bieler@...
            To: smakov@...; PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 04:18:18 +0000
            Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: relief inks that bronze

             
            Thinking about this some more I suspect the bronzing might simply be the effect of your mixing a relief ink with a matte litho ink. I once mixed Handschy Crayon Black (a stone litho ink) with good ole tried and true Van Son 10850 (which works in some applications) and got this weird spiking effect. Kind of liked it for the piece but probably could never replicate it no matter how I tried.

            Gerald
            http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "bielerpr" <Bieler@...> wrote:
            >
            > The Daniel Smith relief inks tend to be a bit waxy. Relief inks in general aren't so great, bit too soupy. I use stone litho inks almost exclusively. I print with Vandercooks though, so if you are using another kind of press, the advice should be taken as such.
            >
            > I've had great success with Graphic Chemical's Lithographic Senefelder's Crayon Black. Amazing Black. It's a bit stiff but can be cut with their Roll Up Black. The whole line seems quite good. The Stiff Opaque White is to die for and the Laketine extender is bizarrely cool. Best line of inks I have found.
            >
            > I've tried most blacks out there though and I can't say I've ever noticed bronzing. Might be something unique to what you are doing.
            >
            > Gerald
            > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
            >
            >
            > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "susanmakov" <smakov@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Lately, I have been having problems with my black relief inks (a mixture of Daniel Smith Relief black with lithographic matte black) bronzing in solid areas. I am printing on Tosa Hanga Japanese paper. I air dry it (I live in a very arid area) because it seems to take at least a week to dry. Any additives or special relief inks that do not bronze? Thanks for your ideas.
            > >
            >


          • typetom@aol.com
            Sorry but I just don t quite know what it means that an ink bronzes nor what a weird spiking effect might be. Technical language baffles me 96.2% of the
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 1, 2012
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              Sorry but I just don't quite know what it means that an ink "bronzes" nor what a "weird spiking effect" might be. Technical language baffles me 96.2% of the time. Probably means something I've seen but I don't know what.
              best wishes,
              Tom
               
               
              In a message dated 10/1/2012 8:36:14 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, smakov@... writes:


              Gerald,
              Thanks for your insights. Yes I have gotten that spiking you mention, though not what I wanted. Off to buy some new ink. Thanks.

              Susan Makov
              Professor of Art
              Weber State University
              2001 University Circle
              Ogden, Utah 84408
              h: 801-328-0128
              www.Greencatpress.com



              From: Bieler@...
              To: smakov@...; PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 04:18:18 +0000
              Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: relief inks that bronze

               
              Thinking about this some more I suspect the bronzing might simply be the effect of your mixing a relief ink with a matte litho ink. I once mixed Handschy Crayon Black (a stone litho ink) with good ole tried and true Van Son 10850 (which works in some applications) and got this weird spiking effect. Kind of liked it for the piece but probably could never replicate it no matter how I tried.

              Gerald
              http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "bielerpr" <Bieler@...> wrote:
              >
              > The Daniel Smith relief inks tend to be a bit waxy. Relief inks in general aren't so great, bit too soupy. I use stone litho inks almost exclusively. I print with Vandercooks though, so if you are using another kind of press, the advice should be taken as such.
              >
              > I've had great success with Graphic Chemical's Lithographic Senefelder's Crayon Black. Amazing Black. It's a bit stiff but can be cut with their Roll Up Black. The whole line seems quite good. The Stiff Opaque White is to die for and the Laketine extender is bizarrely cool. Best line of inks I have found.
              >
              > I've tried most blacks out there though and I can't say I've ever noticed bronzing. Might be something unique to what you are doing.
              >
              > Gerald
              > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
              >
              >
              > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "susanmakov" <smakov@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Lately, I have been having problems with my black relief inks (a mixture of Daniel Smith Relief black with lithographic matte black) bronzing in solid areas. I am printing on Tosa Hanga Japanese paper. I air dry it (I live in a very arid area) because it seems to take at least a week to dry. Any additives or special relief inks that do not bronze? Thanks for your ideas.
              > >
              >


            • Susan Makov
              Bronzing happens to me with a flat layer of black ink. I print it flat black, laying it on the print racks to dry. As it dries it develops a kind of blue sheen
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 1, 2012
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                Bronzing happens to me with a flat layer of black ink. I print it flat black, laying it on the print racks to dry. As it dries it develops a kind of blue sheen to it, no longer looking black everywhere. Very annoying if you do not want that bluish color. The "spikiness" that I notice, or interpret as a blotchiness, that again, starts showing up after a few days drying. 

                Susan Makov
                Professor of Art
                Weber State University
                2001 University Circle
                Ogden, Utah 84408
                h: 801-328-0128
                www.Greencatpress.com



                From: typetom@...
                To: smakov@...; PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 22:45:27 -0400
                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: relief inks that bronze

                 

                Sorry but I just don't quite know what it means that an ink "bronzes" nor what a "weird spiking effect" might be. Technical language baffles me 96.2% of the time. Probably means something I've seen but I don't know what.
                best wishes,
                Tom
                 
                 
                In a message dated 10/1/2012 8:36:14 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, smakov@... writes:


                Gerald,
                Thanks for your insights. Yes I have gotten that spiking you mention, though not what I wanted. Off to buy some new ink. Thanks.

                Susan Makov
                Professor of Art
                Weber State University
                2001 University Circle
                Ogden, Utah 84408
                h: 801-328-0128
                www.Greencatpress.com



                From: Bieler@...
                To: smakov@...; PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 04:18:18 +0000
                Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: relief inks that bronze

                 
                Thinking about this some more I suspect the bronzing might simply be the effect of your mixing a relief ink with a matte litho ink. I once mixed Handschy Crayon Black (a stone litho ink) with good ole tried and true Van Son 10850 (which works in some applications) and got this weird spiking effect. Kind of liked it for the piece but probably could never replicate it no matter how I tried.

                Gerald
                http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "bielerpr" <Bieler@...> wrote:
                >
                > The Daniel Smith relief inks tend to be a bit waxy. Relief inks in general aren't so great, bit too soupy. I use stone litho inks almost exclusively. I print with Vandercooks though, so if you are using another kind of press, the advice should be taken as such.
                >
                > I've had great success with Graphic Chemical's Lithographic Senefelder's Crayon Black. Amazing Black. It's a bit stiff but can be cut with their Roll Up Black. The whole line seems quite good. The Stiff Opaque White is to die for and the Laketine extender is bizarrely cool. Best line of inks I have found.
                >
                > I've tried most blacks out there though and I can't say I've ever noticed bronzing. Might be something unique to what you are doing.
                >
                > Gerald
                > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                >
                >
                > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "susanmakov" <smakov@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Lately, I have been having problems with my black relief inks (a mixture of Daniel Smith Relief black with lithographic matte black) bronzing in solid areas. I am printing on Tosa Hanga Japanese paper. I air dry it (I live in a very arid area) because it seems to take at least a week to dry. Any additives or special relief inks that do not bronze? Thanks for your ideas.
                > >
                >



              • typetom@aol.com
                hi Susan, Thanks for the description. I probably need to experiment some - I ve never noticed this kind of problem, but I rarely print a large solid surface of
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 2, 2012
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                  hi Susan,
                  Thanks for the description. I probably need to experiment some - I've never noticed this kind of problem, but I rarely print a large solid surface of black. No such effect on a woodtype poster I did in Van Son black for the recent APA large tube mailing (which has a good-sized black border ornament as well as solid black wood type letters), and I don't see anything like this on any of the other blacks using larger wood type and other images in that same APA mailing.
                   
                  Most black inks (excepting the Pantone Black for color mixing) do have blue pigment added - apparently to make it seem more opaque somehow. But that blue mostly shows when black is mixed to try to make a dark yellow (thus turning it green) or if it is mixed with a warm red (thus turning it a muddy purplish brown). I've never really noticed the blue in straight black ink, though I suppose color in the paper could affect it.
                   
                  For anything I do, I generally wouldn't print with such litho inks lacking dryers. I suspect the effects you describe may be a result of the paper surface as much as the ink itself? Does this Japanese paper have variations of fibers which might alter the absorption in different places? An ink that dries more by oxidation than absorption could be an answer.
                  Best wishes,
                   
                  Tom
                   
                  Tom Parson/ Now It's Up To You
                  157 S Logan, Denver CO 80209
                  (303) 777-8951 - home & letterpress printshop
                  (720) 480-5358 - cellphone
                  typetom@...
                  www.nowitsuptoyou.com
                   
                   
                  In a message dated 10/1/2012 10:54:42 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, smakov@... writes:


                  Bronzing happens to me with a flat layer of black ink. I print it flat black, laying it on the print racks to dry. As it dries it develops a kind of blue sheen to it, no longer looking black everywhere. Very annoying if you do not want that bluish color. The "spikiness" that I notice, or interpret as a blotchiness, that again, starts showing up after a few days drying. 

                  Susan Makov
                  Professor of Art
                  Weber State University
                  2001 University Circle
                  Ogden, Utah 84408
                  h: 801-328-0128
                  www.Greencatpress.com



                  From: typetom@...
                  To: smakov@...; PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 22:45:27 -0400
                  Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: relief inks that bronze

                   

                  Sorry but I just don't quite know what it means that an ink "bronzes" nor what a "weird spiking effect" might be. Technical language baffles me 96.2% of the time. Probably means something I've seen but I don't know what.
                  best wishes,
                  Tom
                   
                   
                  In a message dated 10/1/2012 8:36:14 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, smakov@... writes:


                  Gerald,
                  Thanks for your insights. Yes I have gotten that spiking you mention, though not what I wanted. Off to buy some new ink. Thanks.

                  Susan Makov
                  Professor of Art
                  Weber State University
                  2001 University Circle
                  Ogden, Utah 84408
                  h: 801-328-0128
                  www.Greencatpress.com



                  From: Bieler@...
                  To: smakov@...; PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 04:18:18 +0000
                  Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: relief inks that bronze

                   
                  Thinking about this some more I suspect the bronzing might simply be the effect of your mixing a relief ink with a matte litho ink. I once mixed Handschy Crayon Black (a stone litho ink) with good ole tried and true Van Son 10850 (which works in some applications) and got this weird spiking effect. Kind of liked it for the piece but probably could never replicate it no matter how I tried.

                  Gerald
                  http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "bielerpr" <Bieler@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The Daniel Smith relief inks tend to be a bit waxy. Relief inks in general aren't so great, bit too soupy. I use stone litho inks almost exclusively. I print with Vandercooks though, so if you are using another kind of press, the advice should be taken as such.
                  >
                  > I've had great success with Graphic Chemical's Lithographic Senefelder's Crayon Black. Amazing Black. It's a bit stiff but can be cut with their Roll Up Black. The whole line seems quite good. The Stiff Opaque White is to die for and the Laketine extender is bizarrely cool. Best line of inks I have found.
                  >
                  > I've tried most blacks out there though and I can't say I've ever noticed bronzing. Might be something unique to what you are doing.
                  >
                  > Gerald
                  > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "susanmakov" <smakov@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Lately, I have been having problems with my black relief inks (a mixture of Daniel Smith Relief black with lithographic matte black) bronzing in solid areas. I am printing on Tosa Hanga Japanese paper. I air dry it (I live in a very arid area) because it seems to take at least a week to dry. Any additives or special relief inks that do not bronze? Thanks for your ideas.
                  >





                   
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