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Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Inkjet negatives

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  • Peter Bruce
    Gerald, Just got back from a long Bank Holiday weekend here in the UK - man I needed it too. Sure - I ll sort something out, I ll have to get some proper
    Message 1 of 37 , Aug 29, 2012
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      Gerald,

      Just got back from a long Bank Holiday weekend here in the UK - man I needed it too.

      Sure - I'll sort something out, I'll have to get some proper photo's done so the detail is clear. I'll post back when I've got something worthwhile put together.

      Regards,


      pc


      From: "PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com" <PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com>
      To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 7:37 AM
      Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Inkjet negatives

       
      Hi Peter

      Any examples of your printed work?

      Gerald

      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Bruce <pcpete100@...> wrote:
      >
      > Harold,
      >
      >
      > Agreed - Folex say the same. I've not had a problem with this film.
      >
      > There is also an ancilliary product, a spray that increases density and gives a matt finish which allows air to pass easier from under the film when in contact with the plate as the vacuum pulls down. Assuming the film has been laid carefully this will ensure good exposure and crisp definition.
      >
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      >
      > pc
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Harold Kyle <harold@...>
      > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 4:37 PM
      > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Inkjet negatives
      >
      >
      >  
      > If it's over 4.0 Dmax then it would be in the right range. We find plate problems result from densities below 4.0 Dmax. Sometimes you can get away with it, but it really isn't a good idea to make a plate from a film below 4.0 Dmax.
      >
      > Thanks
      > Harord
      >
      >
      >
      > On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 7:15 AM, pcpete100 <pcpete100@...> wrote:
      >
      >  
      > >Sorry - somehow I deleted a load of these emails so I think I may have missed some comments.
      > >
      > >Harold,
      > >
      > >That is the pertinent question - you didn't miss it I forgot to mention it.
      > >
      > >I can't speak for all the film products (there's a bunch of them now and we've only used a few). The UK company Pomeroy claim their surejet product "offers the lowest cost computer-to-film solution, ideally suited for commercial printers, newspapers, book & magazine publishers, screen printers, flexo printers and several other applications currently using expensive silver-based films" and "Specialised layer for good ink acceptance ensuring higher Dmax and at the same time ensuring Instant Drying" but they don't say what the Dmax is though the tech sheet will no doubt - I may have seen it but can't remember. View here http://www.pomeroy.co.uk/wide_format/inkjet_film.html
      > >
      > >We have used their product but prefer others. The Folex film I mentioned is stated as "DmaxUV: 3.2 up to > 4 (depending on RIP settings, ink system and measured spectral characteristics of the densitometer)" which is the point made already - you need a RIP.
      > >
      > >pc
      > >
      > >--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Harold Kyle <harold@> wrote:
      > >>
      > >> Has someone mentioned what the density of this inkjet black is? I might
      > >> have missed that. Ink jet transparencies may look pretty sharp but what's
      > >> the Dmax?
      > >>
      > >> Thanks
      > >> Harold
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:31 PM, Gerald Lange <Bieler@> wrote:
      > >>
      > >> > **
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> > Hi Peter
      > >> >
      > >> > Just curious about this statement, "When it comes to fine detail for
      > >> > letterpress work, it's not the negatives that hold you back but the
      > >> > limitations of the plates. One can produce finer detailed accurate
      > >> > inkjet negs than one can image successfully on polymer plates."
      > >> >
      > >> > Yes, but isn't that a problem one always faced with silver-based film
      > >> > negatives? that they were better than the plate could deliver, roughly
      > >> > 5% variance as the old rule of thumb seemed to indicate. I'm seen higher
      > >> > claims regarding computer-to-plate but am not sure.
      > >> >
      > >> > I guess I am not sure what your meaning here is.
      > >> >
      > >> > Gerald
      > >> > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Bruce <pcpete100@> wrote:
      > >> > >
      > >> > > Dear All,
      > >> > >
      > >> > >
      > >> > > hope you guys don't mind another offering on this subject. I don't
      > >> > know if anyone here goes to the Drupa expo held in Germany each year -
      > >> > there's been huge leaps in progress in the last few years, developments
      > >> > which are transforming the lithographic industry in terms of CTP. Laser
      > >> > Â may not be hitting the mark but it's not possible to maintain that
      > >> > assertion about inkjet technology any longer, it's evolved greatly.
      > >> > Heidelberg are re-entering the digital market - a year ago this comment
      > >> > was reported from a Heidelberg exec "Heidelberg considers that there is
      > >> > almost no quality difference between digital and offset, at least none
      > >> > that a customer might complain about". New waterless inks are helping
      > >> > some of the big 'digital' names develop inkjet 'litho presses' (not my
      > >> > terminology) for long runs on a wide variety of media. This years's buzz
      > >> > was 'Nanography'Â within inkjet technology, boasting 11,000 sheets per
      > >> > hourwith Landa claiming "Nanographic Printing is
      > >> >
      > >> > > characterised by ultra-sharp dots of extremely high uniformity, high
      > >> > gloss fidelity and the broadest CMYK colour gamut of any printing
      > >> > process". Inkjets that print metal litho plates are almost 'old hat' in
      > >> > terms of news-worthiness and the ability to produce high definition film
      > >> > is well established. The ink drop size is so small and the lay down so
      > >> > controlled on high end appliances with the right software that inkjet is
      > >> > rapidly being assimilated into litho shops. It's obviously still not
      > >> > competitive for long runs, the ink cost still the problem and speed in
      > >> > some cases but it is cost per impression that's holding it back not the
      > >> > quality -> that's the only point I make (if a slight digression to get
      > >> > there).
      > >> > >
      > >> > >
      > >> > > It is a question at what point one enters the market and how great an
      > >> > investment to make, but the film that can be produced now is stunning
      > >> > quality. We've imaged a variety of media through high definition film
      > >> > negatives including photopolymer materials and metal litho plates and
      > >> > the output quality is consistent and indiscernible under a loupe from
      > >> > alternative processes.
      > >> > >
      > >> > >
      > >> > > When it comes to fine detail for letterpress work, it's not the
      > >> > negatives that hold you back but the limitations of the plates. One can
      > >> > produce finer detailed accurate inkjet negs than one can image
      > >> > successfully on polymer plates. Of course the problem is, if you're
      > >> > thinking of investing in high end inkjet technology the cost is
      > >> > prohibitive for modest purposes. If you plan to use your equipment for a
      > >> > variety of production purposes it's not so bad and it's chemical free
      > >> > and quick.
      > >> > >
      > >> > > The limitations then are more upon small enthusiast print-shops perhaps.
      > >> > > So I agree with Gerald on this point:-
      > >> > >
      > >> > > "I'd think that you'd have to be consuming an awful lot of film to
      > >> > justify any sort of expense beyond just buying from a service bureau or
      > >> > equivalent. And you still need a platemaker..." this is still the
      > >> > problem for most. In a few years though...
      > >> > >
      > >> > > I spoke to a colleague just recently who's at the cutting edge of
      > >> > these developments, I said I thought five years from now litho would be
      > >> > transformed, he smiled and said "quicker than that". Let's hope the
      > >> > prices come down at the same rate but even at the lower end of the scale
      > >> > the quality is there.
      > >> > >
      > >> > > pcÂ
      > >> > >
      > >> > >
      > >> > >
      > >> > > ________________________________
      > >> > > From: Gerald Lange <Bieler@>
      > >> >
      > >> > > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      > >> > > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 8:00 AM
      > >> > > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Inkjet negatives
      > >> > >
      > >> > >
      > >> > > Â
      > >> > > Dan
      > >> > >
      > >> > > From what I have seen you are correct. The specifications of the
      > >> > > best inkjet or toner based setups that I know of just barely meet
      > >> > > minimal letterpress standards.
      > >> > >
      > >> > > I assume that the fineness/detail might NOT be a significant concern
      > >> > > though for folks pursuing this as an alternative to silver based
      > >> > > film negatives.
      > >> > >
      > >> > > A problem that I see is initial and ongoing cost and the constant
      > >> > > evolution of the hardware/software. The great thing about the
      > >> > > Linotronic and other imagesetters is how stable that has made
      > >> > > digital letterpress for over two decades.
      > >> > >
      > >> > > I'd think that you'd have to be consuming an awful lot of film to
      > >> > > justify any sort of expense beyond just buying from a service bureau
      > >> > > or equivalent. And you still need a platemaker. Or better yet, not
      > >> > > have one. Had not an odd set of circumstances allowed me to buy a
      > >> > > platemaker for a major project way back when I suspect I never would
      > >> > > have really had the need for one.
      > >> > >
      > >> > > I started using photopolymer plates for letterpress book production
      > >> > > in the early 1990s and I can easily state that decision saved me a
      > >> > > ton money over buying metal type and photoengravings. Buying the
      > >> > > processed film and plates from someone who knew what they were doing
      > >> > > was a no-brainer.
      > >> > >
      > >> > > It is nice to have a platemaker in-house, as someone mentioned, but
      > >> > > if you can't make a better plate than you could buy elsewhere, it
      > >> > > doesn't do you a whit of good.
      > >> > >
      > >> > > Gerald
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> --
      > >> Boxcar Press
      > >> 509 W. Fayette St. #135
      > >> Syracuse, NY 13204
      > >> www.boxcarpress.com
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > --
      >
      > Boxcar Press
      > 509 W. Fayette St. #135
      > Syracuse, NY  13204
      > www.boxcarpress.com
      >



    • Chad Pastotnik
      My apologies Gerald, I d forgotten the rules for this list but won t repeat. ________________________ Chad Pastotnik Deep Wood Press 231.587.0506
      Message 37 of 37 , Sep 1, 2012
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        My apologies Gerald, I'd forgotten the rules for this list but won't repeat.
        ________________________
        Chad Pastotnik
        Deep Wood Press        231.587.0506
        website: http://www.deepwoodpress.com

        On Sep 1, 2012, at 1:54 AM, PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com wrote:

        Hi Chad and others

        Sorry to have to say but you can only post mention of items for sale if you are the seller. Saying "I have no other information or contact with the seller" might seemingly get you off the hook but it doesn't get Yahoo! off the hook if the seller comes after them for harassment/privacy issues. Yahoo! will dump us in the wink of an eye for infractions. See their guidelines at the bottom of the group site page or the PPL guidelines in the Files section for further information.

        Gerald



        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Chad Pastotnik <chad@...> wrote:

        Just came across a listing from a used equipment seller here in the midwest:

        TPX METRO EXPRESS Thanks for receiving the TPX Metro Express that local printers and trade shops may receive, in which we list SOME OF the equipment that printers in your region want to sell now and which advertises the TPX services offerred atwww.tpxonline.com.  
            Please visit www.tpxonline.com or call TPX at 1-800-955-1879 to:
              1.. search the entire TPX Marketplace and our on-line auctions. Contact sellers with the best deals
              2.. advertise your equipment for as little as $50 "until-it-sells" and also start auctions
              3.. finds the best prices on rollers, parts, supplies and equipment listed in the TPX Shopping System
              4.. outsource printing and other jobs using the TPX Buyers Guide
              5.. find employees by placing help-wanted ads in the TPX Jobs Marketplace

        and the specific listing:

            A & V ORBITAL 8   $2,000 OBO,9 X 12.5",CLEAN, LOW USE KAREN HEIBERGER otagman@...

        I have no other information or contact with the seller just thought others here may be interested.

        ________________________
        Chad Pastotnik
        Deep Wood Press        231.587.0506
        website: http://www.deepwoodpress.com
        blog: http://deepwoodpress.wordpress.com/




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