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Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: The Ink Dial - a Kickstarter for printers & printmakers

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  • Andrew Maximow
    #like! ________________________________ From: Peter Fraterdeus To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com Sent:
    Message 1 of 32 , Aug 15, 2012
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      #like!


      From: Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...>
      To: "PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com" <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:53 PM
      Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: The Ink Dial - a Kickstarter for printers & printmakers

       
      Thanks Andrew.
      Always nice to see a well written respectful presentation on a topic. 
      I concur substantially with your position.
      In fact we've just had a successful first Kckstr project.
      On press today, as it happens!
      http://j.mp/Dbqletterpress
      "Creative Dubuque Postcard Series"


      Of course only idiots will have thrown away their money on it, but some may find it of interest anyway.


      •~^~•~*~•~^~•~*~•~^~•~*~•
      Peter Fraterdeus
      Slowprint.com / Semiotx.com
      google voice 1 563 223 8231

      From iPhone plz excuse brevity!

      On Aug 14, 2012, at 2:57 PM, Andrew Maximow <amaximow@...> wrote:

      Hi Gerald,

      Getting way off topic, but I'll respond once.  Feel free to contact me offline to discuss further.... and please, don't dish out anymore "personal finance" advice.  ;-)

      I have participated in quite a few K'starter campaigns over the years with friends, colleagues, and complete strangers alike.  In my experience, I have found it to be a great method for assisting artists, engineers, inventors, and your "average joe" entrepreneurs to launch a prototype, product, or project, via crowd-funding methods, that would otherwise be impossible, and presents a compelling alternative to traditional VCs, bank loans, music recording industry, and book publishers that would be otherwise inaccessible to most.  Of course there are risks; a few deadbeats, exposing your project/invention/ideas publicly, etc.  But, just like anything it is important to understand the fundamentals of how something works.

      You seem to be mixing key terms in your posting.  The success rate you are referring to has to do with the rate at which campaigns have been fully funded.  K'starter requires that a campaign be 100% funded within the allotted time for the owner to get paid.  Other sites work differently.  To me the 41-46% is merely a statistic that gauges how well some campaigns are thought out, executed by their owners, and gauges the overall interest level in campaigns by the public.  Its a learning learn for future campaign owners, nothing more.  Now the success rate has nothing to do with project completion.   Once a project has been fully funded, completion (based on your use of the term) refers to whether an owner disappears, finishes the project/product, and otherwise fulfills the rewards specified in the campaign.  The key being reward fulfillment.   Some campaigns offer the "widget" they are trying to build as rewards, others like Terry offered prints while they work on their prototype (InkDial).  This is where K'starter and campaign owners have learned and evolved the most over the years.  True, some have disappeared, some campaigns have been wildly successful (over funded) and ran into logistics and scheduling problems trying to fulfill the sheer quantity of rewards.  Kickstarter has implemented thresholds limiting the number of rewards to max-out at a predetermined level.  I'm not aware of "completion" statistics, but it appears that success stories far outweigh the disasters, as crowd-funding continues to gain in its adoption.  FYI, there is a popular infographic explaining crowd-funding here:  http://thechrisvossshow.com/how-crowdfunding-works-infographic/

      Regarding your IRS question, my understanding is the IRS considers any income, regardless of source, as taxable income so unless the K'starter campaign owner is a registered 501(c)(3) organization, prior to launching the campaign, they better declare the funding they receive as income.  As as supporter, you are purchasing a reward.  Anyway, standard caveats apply: consult your tax professional, YMMV, don't use without adult supervision, etc....

      Bottom line, I am fascinated by the concept of crowd-sourcing, as a distributed, open way of collecting the wisdom and resources of many to solve complicated (scientific, economic, social, etc) problems. I recommend a great book on the topic, "The Wisdom of Crowds", by James Surowiecki.  I believe there is a huge future untapped potential in this area!

      Now, if you excuse me I need to get back to printing...

      Best regards,
      --Andrew


      From: Gerald Lange <Bieler@...>
      To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:29 AM
      Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: The Ink Dial - a Kickstarter for printers & printmakers

       
      Well, Andrew, you are the one who publicly called out regarding the status of your investment.

      Kickstarter does not provide assurance that projects will be completed. The success rate over the last several years various between 41 and 46 percent.

      Unless you are hoping to share in profit making I'm thinking this should not be considered an investment so much as a donation, as in acting as a patron or benefactor. In which case you have contributed from the heart and your consideration should not be anticipation of reward.

      Serious question, how is the "contribution" viewed by the IRS for tax purposes?

      Yeah, my take on most of these Kickstarter projects is "But he isn't wearing anything at all!"

      Gerald

      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maximow <amaximow@...> wrote:
      >
      > be civil gerald
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Gerald Lange <Bieler@...>
      > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 11:38 PM
      > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: The Ink Dial - a Kickstarter for printers & printmakers
      >
      >
      >  
      > Andrew
      >
      > Are you kidding me? Since you are willing to toss your money out there in this manner, check this one out
      >
      > http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/leafcutterdesigns/seed-money-coins-you-can-plant?ref=home_popular
      >
      > I saw one recently by someone who wanted to start a letterpress shop and buy a Kelsey but had never printed before. She got funded. And promptly disappeared.
      >
      > Don't you have better things to do with your money? more realistic ways to invest in letterpress or even help? Maybe buy some of the printed work letterpress folk actually have for sale?
      >
      > Gerald
      > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
      >
      > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maximow <amaximow@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Terry,
      > > What is the status of the Ink Dial Project and the Kickstarter Campaign?  You financial backers deserve an update.
      > >
      > > --Andrew
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: Andrew Maximow <amaximow@>
      > > To: "PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com" <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 9:32 AM
      > > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: The Ink Dial - a Kickstarter for printers & printmakers
      > >
      > >
      > >  
      > > Thanks for clarification and answering my questions.  Good to hear that one would be able to purchase any number of units as part of a system that suits one's needs.  Please continue to send us updates "up the wazoo"!  Now on to the KS pledge page...
      > > Best!
      > > A&X
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: Ithaca Typothetae <listslistslists@>
      > > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 4:59 PM
      > > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: The Ink Dial - a Kickstarter for printers & printmakers
      > >
      > >
      > >  
      > > H I   A N D R E W   &   X E N I A
      > >
      > > Thanks for writing! Great question. Your asking me helps improve my message.
      > >
      > > In the video & in the write-up, what I mean by a "system" is a set of identical tools. Think of a socket wrench as a system. Having one socket wrench and one socket won't do you much good. Having a single Ink Dial won't work either. 
      > >
      > > Most folks use the Pantone Matching System to some degree. And if you do, well . . . to use it successfully you need approximately 15 component colors. Ingredients for your color recipe. Same thing with the Ink Dial. But the Ink Dial is not limited to one brand of ink, one size of can, or one system of color matching. 
      > >
      > > It does one simple thing with some pleasant side effects. Mainly it measures an amount of ink as that ink is dispensed. The side effects include, but are not limited to:
      > > * keeping your ink protected from debris, air (thinking ink drying in the can) & color contamination, 
      > > * it maximizes the use of all the ink in a can, less waste
      > > * keeps ink where it is supposed to be: in the can, on the mixing slab & obviously on your rollers. 
      > > * The amount of ink mixed is scalable: you can mix a little or you can mix a lot.
      > > * It allows the printer to determine for him or herself what amount to mix. In PMS terms that'd be described as "parts."
      > > * With its fixed mechanism it makes repeating a recipe a cinch.
      > > I wish I could say more as I know the PPL is a sophisticated & expertly technical group. 
      > >
      > > As for the term "unit" that means a single Ink Dial tool. I hadn't planned offer any Ink Dials as rewards, but that donor asked me to create that level & gift. So when it says 15 units, that means I'll be delivering him 15 Ink Dials.
      > >
      > > I guess by "system" is really a set of tools, and a "unit" means a single tool. 
      > >  
      > > It won't be the cheapest thing on the planet, but neither was your photopolymer mounting base or your printing press when you bought it. Nowadays do you even give those purchases a second thought? All that being said, I will do my best to make this affordable as I make it available.
      > >
      > > If the Kickstarter succeeds I expect to take the show on the road and reserve a vendor table at various printing events to do a little dog & pony. SF is HIGH on my list. Perhaps I can talk someone out there to invite me to there shop so I can give a public demo for a gathering of printers. 
      > >
      > > This will also work for printmakers (Lithography. Intaglio. But screen printing? Not so much yet.) and there are a number of artist studios out there to visit as well. It is for anyone in need of small amounts of custom colors mixed in-house. 
      > >
      > > Anyhow, I hope this longwinded answer is helpful. Please don't hesitate to write, ask more questions, etc. If you think it sounds like a grand idea, please spread the word (especially if you can't pledge).
      > >
      > > Oh and since Kickstarter disallows offering discounts of any sort I can't post on my page that I expect to let the donors know when Ink Dials are ready to ship and they will in turn be the first in line to order. 
      > >
      > > Also, though I am not certain to what degree, I intend to offer donors a discount. 
      > >
      > > I'm not in this for the money. I'm mean, I'm just as broke as everyone else, but I place more value on putting good out in the world. That is after all why I'm trying to get this idea out there. If I were a greedy bastard I'd just keep this to myself, or build em and charge folks up the wazoo. (Wazoo . . . a term more likely to be found on Letpres, not here.)  : ' )
      > >
      > > Anyhow . . . enough words now. Thanks for the query! And please spread the love.
      > >
      > > Meanwhile,  I humbly remain,
      > >
      > >
      > > Yours in lead, ink, pixel & paper
      > >
      > >
      > > T E R R Y
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Terrence Chouinard
      > > I T H A C A   T Y P O T H E T AE
      > > 11744 Antler Ridge Way
      > > Athens, Alabama 35611
      > >
      > > 256-497-8495
      > > inkdial.comlawsonarchive.com
      > >
      >





    • Amber Ellis-Seguine
      Andre at dolphin graphics in SF. Can t recommend him enough. Fantastic guy and my film is always done right/super fast.
      Message 32 of 32 , Aug 15, 2012
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        Andre at dolphin graphics in SF. Can't recommend him enough. Fantastic guy and my film is always done right/super fast. 



        On Aug 15, 2012, at 8:03 PM, Andrew Maximow <amaximow@...> wrote:

         

        Hi Amber,
        Who processes negatives for you?
        --A


        From: Amber Ellis-Seguine <amber@...>
        To: "PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com" <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 12:31 PM
        Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Polymer Plates anyone?

         
        Get a platemaker!!! I was making less plates than that and I have not only saved a ton of money the time I've save in turnaround has been worth it's weight in gold. ;) the only tough thing for me was locating a platemaker in my area. Better to start looking now then you have choice. 

        Good luck. 

        P.S. crunch the numbers and you'll be floored at the savings. 



        On Aug 15, 2012, at 10:00 AM, nohogallery@... wrote:

         
        Can we possibly move on and discuss printing with polymer plates?

        When and at what volume did any of you choose to move plate making in-house?

        We order between $200 and $1500 per month in polymer plates from outside vendors.  We have the space and the plumbing.

        Any thoughts?

        Thanks,

        Bill Muller
        Big Wheel Press


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