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Gray color changes when dry

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  • Jessica Hosgood
    Hello everybody, This is my first post here. We just printed a job with a large solid area in warm gray 3. The gray was mixed with opaque white instead of
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 13, 2011
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      Hello everybody,

      This is my first post here.

      We just printed a job with a large solid area in warm gray 3. The gray was mixed with opaque white instead of transparent white in order to have a richer, more dense color. The problem is that after complete drying (3 or 4 days) the gray turns pinkish, looking more like a pantone 407.

      Has anyone run into this problem before? Does this happen because of the opaque white? Or may it be that the inks are out of date? All cans were opened about 4 months ago. Also, we use Van Son's oil based inked. Could this be a reaction induced by the anti skin spray?

      Any idea or solution would be welcome.

      Thank you,
      Jessica
    • Rick Harden
      Forget about the ink being out of date, I have mixed with inks that have been over 15 years old. Forget about the anti skin spray, that would cause the in to
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 13, 2011
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        Forget about the ink being out of date, I have mixed with inks that have been over 15 years old.  Forget about the anti skin spray, that would cause the in to turn pink. My question would be, What kind of paper?   Give me a call @ 888.898.3330, and I will see if we can help you.
        Rick Harden
        Southern Ink Company, Inc
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 6:01 AM
        Subject: [PPLetterpress] Gray color changes when dry

         

        Hello everybody,

        This is my first post here.

        We just printed a job with a large solid area in warm gray 3. The gray was mixed with opaque white instead of transparent white in order to have a richer, more dense color. The problem is that after complete drying (3 or 4 days) the gray turns pinkish, looking more like a pantone 407.

        Has anyone run into this problem before? Does this happen because of the opaque white? Or may it be that the inks are out of date? All cans were opened about 4 months ago. Also, we use Van Son's oil based inked. Could this be a reaction induced by the anti skin spray?

        Any idea or solution would be welcome.

        Thank you,
        Jessica






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      • Austin Jones
        I am not one to Jump to Conclusions , but sounds like an issue with ink and paper. If the gray ink you started with is a warm gray - meaning it has some red
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 13, 2011
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          I am not one to "Jump to Conclusions", but sounds like an issue with ink and paper. If the gray ink you started with is a warm gray - meaning it has some red in it as opposed to a cold gray - mostly blue, there certainly could be a "pink cast" appearance on some papers.
           
          For my way of thinking - start with the opaque white and add a bit of cold black to get the gray cast you want.
           
          Is this help or confusion?
           
          tks

          Austin Jones
          austin@...
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 7:01 AM
          Subject: [PPLetterpress] Gray color changes when dry

           

          Hello everybody,

          This is my first post here.

          We just printed a job with a large solid area in warm gray 3. The gray was mixed with opaque white instead of transparent white in order to have a richer, more dense color. The problem is that after complete drying (3 or 4 days) the gray turns pinkish, looking more like a pantone 407.

          Has anyone run into this problem before? Does this happen because of the opaque white? Or may it be that the inks are out of date? All cans were opened about 4 months ago. Also, we use Van Son's oil based inked. Could this be a reaction induced by the anti skin spray?

          Any idea or solution would be welcome.

          Thank you,
          Jessica

        • Leslie Ross-Robertson
          Hello Jessica:   I have had the anti-skin spray change my opaque white a yellowish color...   Best,   Leslie ... From: Jessica Hosgood
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 13, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Jessica:
             
            I have had the anti-skin spray change my opaque white a yellowish color...
             
            Best,
             
            Leslie

            --- On Wed, 4/13/11, Jessica Hosgood <jessica.hosgood@...> wrote:

            From: Jessica Hosgood <jessica.hosgood@...>
            Subject: [PPLetterpress] Gray color changes when dry
            To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, April 13, 2011, 11:01 AM

             
            Hello everybody,

            This is my first post here.

            We just printed a job with a large solid area in warm gray 3. The gray was mixed with opaque white instead of transparent white in order to have a richer, more dense color. The problem is that after complete drying (3 or 4 days) the gray turns pinkish, looking more like a pantone 407.

            Has anyone run into this problem before? Does this happen because of the opaque white? Or may it be that the inks are out of date? All cans were opened about 4 months ago. Also, we use Van Son's oil based inked. Could this be a reaction induced by the anti skin spray?

            Any idea or solution would be welcome.

            Thank you,
            Jessica

          • bielerpr
            Anti-skin spray is not something you want in your ink cans as it is a solvent. On very rare occasion when I just don t have the energy to clean up the press
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 13, 2011
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              Anti-skin spray is not something you want in your ink cans as it is a solvent. On very rare occasion when I just don't have the energy to clean up the press after a long day's run I have used it to spray the rollers to keep the ink from drying until the next morning. But spraying this into ink that you expect to use again is just asking for problems.

              Gerald
              http://bielerpress.blogspot.com


              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Leslie Ross-Robertson <modernoptic@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Jessica:
              >  
              > I have had the anti-skin spray change my opaque white a yellowish color...
              >  
              > Best,
              >  
              > Leslie
              >
              > --- On Wed, 4/13/11, Jessica Hosgood <jessica.hosgood@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: Jessica Hosgood <jessica.hosgood@...>
              > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Gray color changes when dry
              > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Wednesday, April 13, 2011, 11:01 AM
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              > Hello everybody,
              >
              > This is my first post here.
              >
              > We just printed a job with a large solid area in warm gray 3. The gray was mixed with opaque white instead of transparent white in order to have a richer, more dense color. The problem is that after complete drying (3 or 4 days) the gray turns pinkish, looking more like a pantone 407.
              >
              > Has anyone run into this problem before? Does this happen because of the opaque white? Or may it be that the inks are out of date? All cans were opened about 4 months ago. Also, we use Van Son's oil based inked. Could this be a reaction induced by the anti skin spray?
              >
              > Any idea or solution would be welcome.
              >
              > Thank you,
              > Jessica
              >
            • Jessica Hosgood
              The ink in the top of the can had indeed turned yellowish, so I guess it was because of the anti-skin spray. We just reprinted everything with new ink and it
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 14, 2011
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                The ink in the top of the can had indeed turned yellowish, so I guess
                it was because of the anti-skin spray.
                We just reprinted everything with new ink and it looks ok this time.

                Thank you all for your help and have a nice day!
              • MichaelB
                Hi Jessica, Contrary to Gerald s experience, I ve been applying anti-skin into cans of RBP for years. Keeps things fresh, and especially critical if it s an
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 14, 2011
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                  Hi Jessica,

                  Contrary to Gerald's experience, I've been applying anti-skin into cans of RBP for years. Keeps things fresh, and especially critical if it's an oil base such as all the metallics.

                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/interrobang918/5541791812/in/photostream/

                  Aside from the metallics, you may want to avoid oil based inks. They dry to a gloss, and are for coated papers. The Rubber Base Plus inks are made for uncoated stocks. All bets are off with oil based print making inks that some folk love. I'm a recent convert to Graphic Chemical's Oil Base Opaque White. Better coverage and opacity than Van Son. But that's an exception.

                  As regards the cast you are seeing on dry-back, as mentioned, if you check the formula for the warm grays you'll note the infinitesimal amount of Red 032. So, that is why you are seeing a pink cast to your grey. That said, I'm not sure about the logic in expecting the Opaque White to provide a more rich color.

                  All Pantone colors are translucent and depend upon the white of the paper to impart their color. That's why the formula guides and chip books are printed on a bright white paper.

                  I just had a can of Cool Grey 10 custom mixed by Van Son with an Opaque White base in RBP and upon wash up found very distinctly how the component parts separated out:

                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/interrobang918/5566445225/in/photostream

                  So the question is, what color paper were you printing on the necessitated an opaque white base? If it was a white paper, you gained nothing.

                  My job was running on black paper, and I noted a blue cast which I knocked back by adding more Opaque White, Pantone Mixing Black (which hasn't the blue undercast of 10850 black), and 877 Silver just for fun.

                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/interrobang918/page15/

                  Here's a tip for the uninitiated. When choosing a Pantone color for letterpress (heavier inking than the offset printed chip books) spec a hue lighter. The extra coverage will yield a hue matching the color you really want.

                  Good luck.

                  mjb | interrobang letterpress / linotypesetting.com / typeconsortium.org


                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "bielerpr" <Bieler@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Anti-skin spray is not something you want in your ink cans as it is a solvent. On very rare occasion when I just don't have the energy to clean up the press after a long day's run I have used it to spray the rollers to keep the ink from drying until the next morning. But spraying this into ink that you expect to use again is just asking for problems.
                  >
                  > Gerald
                  > http://bielerpress.blogspot.com
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Leslie Ross-Robertson <modernoptic@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello Jessica:
                  > >  
                  > > I have had the anti-skin spray change my opaque white a yellowish color...
                  > >  
                  > > Best,
                  > >  
                  > > Leslie
                  > >
                  > > --- On Wed, 4/13/11, Jessica Hosgood <jessica.hosgood@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > From: Jessica Hosgood <jessica.hosgood@>
                  > > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Gray color changes when dry
                  > > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Date: Wednesday, April 13, 2011, 11:01 AM
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >  
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hello everybody,
                  > >
                  > > This is my first post here.
                  > >
                  > > We just printed a job with a large solid area in warm gray 3. The gray was mixed with opaque white instead of transparent white in order to have a richer, more dense color. The problem is that after complete drying (3 or 4 days) the gray turns pinkish, looking more like a pantone 407.
                  > >
                  > > Has anyone run into this problem before? Does this happen because of the opaque white? Or may it be that the inks are out of date? All cans were opened about 4 months ago. Also, we use Van Son's oil based inked. Could this be a reaction induced by the anti skin spray?
                  > >
                  > > Any idea or solution would be welcome.
                  > >
                  > > Thank you,
                  > > Jessica
                  > >
                  >
                • Harold Kyle
                  While so-called oil base inks do tend to dry to a glossier appearance than rubber base inks, they are definitely well suited for uncoated stocks. Many
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 14, 2011
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                    While so-called oil base inks do tend to dry to a glossier appearance than rubber base inks, they are definitely well suited for uncoated stocks. Many thousands of printers use oil base ink on uncoated paper successfully. I'll just say that "to each their own" and you might want to try both before writing off either. Many different manufacturers make many different types of oil base inks, so I'd be suspicious of any blanket statement about "oil base inks." From what I understand, they're all oil base, really, it's just a matter of which oil(s).

                    Thanks
                    Harold


                    On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 10:45 AM, MichaelB <mjb@...> wrote:
                     

                    Hi Jessica,

                    Contrary to Gerald's experience, I've been applying anti-skin into cans of RBP for years. Keeps things fresh, and especially critical if it's an oil base such as all the metallics.

                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/interrobang918/5541791812/in/photostream/

                    Aside from the metallics, you may want to avoid oil based inks. They dry to a gloss, and are for coated papers. The Rubber Base Plus inks are made for uncoated stocks. All bets are off with oil based print making inks that some folk love. I'm a recent convert to Graphic Chemical's Oil Base Opaque White. Better coverage and opacity than Van Son. But that's an exception.

                    As regards the cast you are seeing on dry-back, as mentioned, if you check the formula for the warm grays you'll note the infinitesimal amount of Red 032. So, that is why you are seeing a pink cast to your grey. That said, I'm not sure about the logic in expecting the Opaque White to provide a more rich color.

                    All Pantone colors are translucent and depend upon the white of the paper to impart their color. That's why the formula guides and chip books are printed on a bright white paper.

                    I just had a can of Cool Grey 10 custom mixed by Van Son with an Opaque White base in RBP and upon wash up found very distinctly how the component parts separated out:

                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/interrobang918/5566445225/in/photostream

                    So the question is, what color paper were you printing on the necessitated an opaque white base? If it was a white paper, you gained nothing.

                    My job was running on black paper, and I noted a blue cast which I knocked back by adding more Opaque White, Pantone Mixing Black (which hasn't the blue undercast of 10850 black), and 877 Silver just for fun.

                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/interrobang918/page15/

                    Here's a tip for the uninitiated. When choosing a Pantone color for letterpress (heavier inking than the offset printed chip books) spec a hue lighter. The extra coverage will yield a hue matching the color you really want.

                    Good luck.

                    mjb | interrobang letterpress / linotypesetting.com / typeconsortium.org

                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "bielerpr" <Bieler@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Anti-skin spray is not something you want in your ink cans as it is a solvent. On very rare occasion when I just don't have the energy to clean up the press after a long day's run I have used it to spray the rollers to keep the ink from drying until the next morning. But spraying this into ink that you expect to use again is just asking for problems.
                    >
                    > Gerald
                    > http://bielerpress.blogspot.com
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Leslie Ross-Robertson <modernoptic@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello Jessica:
                    > >  
                    > > I have had the anti-skin spray change my opaque white a yellowish color...
                    > >  
                    > > Best,
                    > >  
                    > > Leslie
                    > >
                    > > --- On Wed, 4/13/11, Jessica Hosgood <jessica.hosgood@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > From: Jessica Hosgood <jessica.hosgood@>
                    > > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Gray color changes when dry
                    > > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Date: Wednesday, April 13, 2011, 11:01 AM
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >  
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hello everybody,
                    > >
                    > > This is my first post here.
                    > >
                    > > We just printed a job with a large solid area in warm gray 3. The gray was mixed with opaque white instead of transparent white in order to have a richer, more dense color. The problem is that after complete drying (3 or 4 days) the gray turns pinkish, looking more like a pantone 407.
                    > >
                    > > Has anyone run into this problem before? Does this happen because of the opaque white? Or may it be that the inks are out of date? All cans were opened about 4 months ago. Also, we use Van Son's oil based inked. Could this be a reaction induced by the anti skin spray?
                    > >
                    > > Any idea or solution would be welcome.
                    > >
                    > > Thank you,
                    > > Jessica
                    > >
                    >




                    --
                    ---
                    Boxcar Press
                    501 W. Fayette St. #222
                    Syracuse, NY  13204
                    www.boxcarpress.com
                  • Rick Harden
                    Harold, u are correct. As a ink maker we just add different oils. All of my letterpress customers use a oil base ink, that we formulated to stay open like a
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 14, 2011
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                      Harold, u are correct.  As a ink maker we just add different oils.  All of my letterpress customers use a oil base ink, that we formulated to stay open like a rubber base, but gives you the drying of an oil base. 
                       
                      Rick
                      Southern Ink Company, Inc.
                      888.898.3330
                       
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:02 AM
                      Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Gray color changes when dry

                       

                      While so-called oil base inks do tend to dry to a glossier appearance than rubber base inks, they are definitely well suited for uncoated stocks. Many thousands of printers use oil base ink on uncoated paper successfully. I'll just say that "to each their own" and you might want to try both before writing off either. Many different manufacturers make many different types of oil base inks, so I'd be suspicious of any blanket statement about "oil base inks." From what I understand, they're all oil base, really, it's just a matter of which oil(s).


                      Thanks
                      Harold


                      On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 10:45 AM, MichaelB <mjb@interrobangletterpress..com> wrote:
                       

                      Hi Jessica,

                      Contrary to Gerald's experience, I've been applying anti-skin into cans of RBP for years. Keeps things fresh, and especially critical if it's an oil base such as all the metallics.

                      http://www.flickr.com/photos/interrobang918/5541791812/in/photostream/

                      Aside from the metallics, you may want to avoid oil based inks. They dry to a gloss, and are for coated papers. The Rubber Base Plus inks are made for uncoated stocks. All bets are off with oil based print making inks that some folk love. I'm a recent convert to Graphic Chemical's Oil Base Opaque White. Better coverage and opacity than Van Son. But that's an exception.

                      As regards the cast you are seeing on dry-back, as mentioned, if you check the formula for the warm grays you'll note the infinitesimal amount of Red 032. So, that is why you are seeing a pink cast to your grey. That said, I'm not sure about the logic in expecting the Opaque White to provide a more rich color.

                      All Pantone colors are translucent and depend upon the white of the paper to impart their color. That's why the formula guides and chip books are printed on a bright white paper.

                      I just had a can of Cool Grey 10 custom mixed by Van Son with an Opaque White base in RBP and upon wash up found very distinctly how the component parts separated out:

                      http://www.flickr.com/photos/interrobang918/5566445225/in/photostream

                      So the question is, what color paper were you printing on the necessitated an opaque white base? If it was a white paper, you gained nothing.

                      My job was running on black paper, and I noted a blue cast which I knocked back by adding more Opaque White, Pantone Mixing Black (which hasn't the blue undercast of 10850 black), and 877 Silver just for fun.

                      http://www.flickr.com/photos/interrobang918/page15/

                      Here's a tip for the uninitiated. When choosing a Pantone color for letterpress (heavier inking than the offset printed chip books) spec a hue lighter. The extra coverage will yield a hue matching the color you really want.

                      Good luck.

                      mjb | interrobang letterpress / linotypesetting.com / typeconsortium.org

                      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "bielerpr" <Bieler@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Anti-skin spray is not something you want in your ink cans as it is a solvent. On very rare occasion when I just don't have the energy to clean up the press after a long day's run I have used it to spray the rollers to keep the ink from drying until the next morning. But spraying this into ink that you expect to use again is just asking for problems.
                      >
                      > Gerald
                      > http://bielerpress.blogspot.com
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Leslie Ross-Robertson <modernoptic@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello Jessica:
                      > >  
                      > > I have had the anti-skin spray change my opaque white a yellowish color...
                      > >  
                      > > Best,
                      > >  
                      > > Leslie
                      > >
                      > > --- On Wed, 4/13/11, Jessica Hosgood <jessica.hosgood@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > From: Jessica Hosgood <jessica.hosgood@>
                      > > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Gray color changes when dry
                      > > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Date: Wednesday, April 13, 2011, 11:01 AM
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >  
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hello everybody,
                      > >
                      > > This is my first post here.
                      > >
                      > > We just printed a job with a large solid area in warm gray 3. The gray was mixed with opaque white instead of transparent white in order to have a richer, more dense color. The problem is that after complete drying (3 or 4 days) the gray turns pinkish, looking more like a pantone 407.
                      > >
                      > > Has anyone run into this problem before? Does this happen because of the opaque white? Or may it be that the inks are out of date? All cans were opened about 4 months ago. Also, we use Van Son's oil based inked. Could this be a reaction induced by the anti skin spray?
                      > >
                      > > Any idea or solution would be welcome.
                      > >
                      > > Thank you,
                      > > Jessica
                      > >
                      >




                      --
                      ---
                      Boxcar Press
                      501 W. Fayette St. #222
                      Syracuse, NY  13204
                      www.boxcarpress.com






                      =======
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                    • Peter Fraterdeus
                      Hmmm Now I know what printing and economics have in common ;-) Since we re weighing in, I ll throw my two cents, since I just gave exactly the opposite advice
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 14, 2011
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                        Hmmm

                        Now I know what printing and economics have in common ;-)

                        Since we're weighing in, I'll throw my two cents, since I just gave exactly the opposite advice regarding Michael's tip to the uninitiated.

                        > "Here's a tip for the uninitiated. When choosing a Pantone color for letterpress (heavier inking than the offset printed chip books) spec a hue lighter. The extra coverage will yield a hue matching the color you really want."


                        I, to the contrary, advise designers to spec a hue darker, since I like to under-ink the type a wee bit and use the thinnest possible ink-film and the highest possible rollers in order to get razor sharp impression with no spread, and the ink laying only at the bottom of the 'well' of the impression, regardless of depth.

                        That is, the 10x loupe will show no 'ring' around the type.

                        Strangely, that's also the advice given in my 1930's Miehle Vertical handbook.
                        (Of course there was no Pantone then, but there were color swatchbooks...)

                        NB, of course, that printing solids on dark stock throws off all bets. Multiple hits is the best solution if feasible, of course.

                        Also, my oil based inks, similar in composition (at least in principle) to that used by Caxton, Caslon, Bodoni, Gutenberg, et al don't dry glossy at all. At least not on the uncoated stock that I'm using.

                        Ah, also mixing with opaque white definitely gains plenty, I'm not sure where Michael's observation comes from. Transparent "white" is not white, but clear, and it dilutes the pigment in the ink. In theory, on an offset press, with a bright white paper, this dilution will produce the Pantone color specified. However, on a warm white stock, for instance, the color will be... warmer.

                        Opaque white is a pigment in a medium. It blends (mixes, really) with the pigment in the colored ink and produces a COMPLETELY different body and effect on paper than the transparent. Add a bit of Magnesium Carbonate (printer's chalk) and again, the density and body of the ink are even more perfected (and even less 'glossy' in fact). For true transparent glazes (as I use regularly for 'faux' blind impressions*) you don't use opaque white or mag ( otherwise you'll get a muddy pastel effect).

                        Your milage may vary, some settling may occur, this email is sold by weight, not by volume.

                        Best wishes to all, regardless of opinion ;-)
                        (mighty fine work all around!)

                        Ciao

                        Peter

                        * I find that blind impressions don't read well in thinner stocks, and often advise designers that we would want to add a very little bit of 'glaze' (just transp white with a tiny speck of the job color mixed in) to give the eye a sense of shadow there. Of course on a double-thick covers (Lettra 220#, et al) we can put the impression deep enough to read the shadow directly. For an example of the faux-blind-impression:
                        http://bit.ly/dOXBHk

                        PS, back to the topic of anti-skinning strategies I'm thinking of getting some nitrogen gas for my ink cans, like vintners use to keep wine from oxidizing.
                        I also read about old-timers who actually put water in the can. I haven't tried it yet, but it seems like it could work!

                        In the meantime, I do pretty well with a circle of mylar pressed down into the surface.

                        Finally, IMHO, rubber inks smell funny and can't be used for over-printing without nasty driers, etc etc etc.

                        >
                        >
                        > While so-called oil base inks do tend to dry to a glossier appearance than rubber base inks, they are definitely well suited for uncoated stocks. Many thousands of printers use oil base ink on uncoated paper successfully. I'll just say that "to each their own" and you might want to try both before writing off either. Many different manufacturers make many different types of oil base inks, so I'd be suspicious of any blanket statement about "oil base inks." From what I understand, they're all oil base, really, it's just a matter of which oil(s).
                        >
                        > Thanks
                        > Harold
                        >
                        >
                        > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 10:45 AM, MichaelB <mjb@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Jessica,
                        >
                        > Contrary to Gerald's experience, I've been applying anti-skin into cans of RBP for years. Keeps things fresh, and especially critical if it's an oil base such as all the metallics.
                        >
                        > http://www.flickr.com/photos/interrobang918/5541791812/in/photostream/
                        >
                        > Aside from the metallics, you may want to avoid oil based inks. They dry to a gloss, and are for coated papers. The Rubber Base Plus inks are made for uncoated stocks. All bets are off with oil based print making inks that some folk love. I'm a recent convert to Graphic Chemical's Oil Base Opaque White. Better coverage and opacity than Van Son. But that's an exception.
                        >
                        > As regards the cast you are seeing on dry-back, as mentioned, if you check the formula for the warm grays you'll note the infinitesimal amount of Red 032. So, that is why you are seeing a pink cast to your grey. That said, I'm not sure about the logic in expecting the Opaque White to provide a more rich color.
                        >
                        > All Pantone colors are translucent and depend upon the white of the paper to impart their color. That's why the formula guides and chip books are printed on a bright white paper.
                        >
                        > I just had a can of Cool Grey 10 custom mixed by Van Son with an Opaque White base in RBP and upon wash up found very distinctly how the component parts separated out:
                        >
                        > http://www.flickr.com/photos/interrobang918/5566445225/in/photostream
                        >
                        > So the question is, what color paper were you printing on the necessitated an opaque white base? If it was a white paper, you gained nothing.
                        >
                        > My job was running on black paper, and I noted a blue cast which I knocked back by adding more Opaque White, Pantone Mixing Black (which hasn't the blue undercast of 10850 black), and 877 Silver just for fun.
                        >
                        > http://www.flickr.com/photos/interrobang918/page15/
                        >
                        > Here's a tip for the uninitiated. When choosing a Pantone color for letterpress (heavier inking than the offset printed chip books) spec a hue lighter. The extra coverage will yield a hue matching the color you really want.
                        >
                        > Good luck.
                        >
                        > mjb | interrobang letterpress / linotypesetting.com / typeconsortium.org
                        >
                        > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "bielerpr" <Bieler@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Anti-skin spray is not something you want in your ink cans as it is a solvent. On very rare occasion when I just don't have the energy to clean up the press after a long day's run I have used it to spray the rollers to keep the ink from drying until the next morning. But spraying this into ink that you expect to use again is just asking for problems.
                        > >
                        > > Gerald
                        > > http://bielerpress.blogspot.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Leslie Ross-Robertson <modernoptic@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hello Jessica:
                        > > > Â
                        > > > I have had the anti-skin spray change my opaque white a yellowish color...
                        > > > Â
                        > > > Best,
                        > > > Â
                        > > > Leslie
                        > > >
                        > > > --- On Wed, 4/13/11, Jessica Hosgood <jessica.hosgood@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > From: Jessica Hosgood <jessica.hosgood@>
                        > > > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Gray color changes when dry
                        > > > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Date: Wednesday, April 13, 2011, 11:01 AM
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Â
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Hello everybody,
                        > > >
                        > > > This is my first post here.
                        > > >
                        > > > We just printed a job with a large solid area in warm gray 3. The gray was mixed with opaque white instead of transparent white in order to have a richer, more dense color. The problem is that after complete drying (3 or 4 days) the gray turns pinkish, looking more like a pantone 407.
                        > > >
                        > > > Has anyone run into this problem before? Does this happen because of the opaque white? Or may it be that the inks are out of date? All cans were opened about 4 months ago. Also, we use Van Son's oil based inked. Could this be a reaction induced by the anti skin spray?
                        > > >
                        > > > Any idea or solution would be welcome.
                        > > >
                        > > > Thank you,
                        > > > Jessica
                        > > >
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > ---
                        > Boxcar Press
                        > 501 W. Fayette St. #222
                        > Syracuse, NY 13204
                        > www.boxcarpress.com
                        >


                        Peter Fraterdeus
                        Exquisite letterpress takes time™
                        http://slowprint.com/

                        IdeasWords : Idea Swords
                        Communication Strategy
                        Semiotx.com @ideaswords
                      • Peter Fraterdeus
                        Rick Thanks for the update on this important question! Peter ... Peter Fraterdeus Exquisite letterpress takes time™ http://slowprint.com/ IdeasWords : Idea
                        Message 11 of 13 , Apr 14, 2011
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                          Rick

                          Thanks for the update on this important question!

                          Peter

                          On 14 Apr 2011, at 10:34 AM, Rick Harden wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > Harold, u are correct. As a ink maker we just add different oils. All of my letterpress customers use a oil base ink, that we formulated to stay open like a rubber base, but gives you the drying of an oil base.
                          >
                          > Rick
                          > Southern Ink Company, Inc.
                          > 888.898.3330
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Harold Kyle
                          > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                          > Cc: MichaelB
                          > Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:02 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Gray color changes when dry
                          >
                          > While so-called oil base inks do tend to dry to a glossier appearance than rubber base inks, they are definitely well suited for uncoated stocks. Many thousands of printers use oil base ink on uncoated paper successfully. I'll just say that "to each their own" and you might want to try both before writing off either. Many different manufacturers make many different types of oil base inks, so I'd be suspicious of any blanket statement about "oil base inks." From what I understand, they're all oil base, really, it's just a matter of which oil(s).
                          >
                          >
                          > Thanks
                          > Harold
                          >
                          >
                          > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 10:45 AM, MichaelB <mjb@interrobangletterpress..com> wrote:
                          > ...
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > ---
                          > Boxcar Press
                          > 501 W. Fayette St. #222
                          > Syracuse, NY 13204
                          > www.boxcarpress.com
                          >

                          Peter Fraterdeus
                          Exquisite letterpress takes time™
                          http://slowprint.com/

                          IdeasWords : Idea Swords
                          Communication Strategy
                          Semiotx.com @ideaswords
                        • Eric
                          ... And for some reason, many people assume that oil means petroleum oil, rather than the vegetable oils used, linseed oil being the traditional vehicle; no
                          Message 12 of 13 , Apr 14, 2011
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                            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Harold Kyle <harold@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From what I understand, they're all oil base, really, it's just
                            > a matter of which oil(s).
                            >
                            And for some reason, many people assume that oil means petroleum oil, rather than the vegetable oils used, linseed oil being the traditional vehicle; no doubt there is more in play now. Today all inks have a more complicated mix than before, for a variety of reasons including environmental laws, availability of supply, and need for economy. Even soy inks have chemical resins and modifiers--and most definitely, a genetically modified vehicle.
                            Personally, I gave up on rubber base because of the relatively short shelf life, with unopened cans solidifying in less than a decade. And anti-skin spray won't do a lot to extend the life of a rubber-base ink because it does not dry primarily by oxidation.
                            --Eric Holub, SF
                          • Graham and Kathy
                            It works Peter, but can lead to rust in the can, a rough finish to the top skin of the ink which eventually forms, and so another messy business. I stick to
                            Message 13 of 13 , Apr 15, 2011
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                              It works Peter, but can lead to rust in the can, a rough finish to the top
                              skin of the ink which eventually forms, and so another messy business. I
                              stick to the Mylar disc now, a material the old-timers never had, but
                              sometimes find skinning under the disc. But at least it's clean and smooth
                              skinning, easily lifted and replaced.

                              Best,

                              Graham Moss
                              Incline Press
                              36 Bow Street
                              Oldham OL1 1SJ England

                              http://www.inclinepress.com






                              On 14/4/11 16:39, "Peter Fraterdeus" <peterf@...> wrote:

                              > I also read about old-timers who actually put water in the can. I haven't
                              > tried it yet, but it seems like it could work!
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